Lenovo Legion 2023 discussion

[saturnotaku]

3 hours ago, jlp0209 said:

Fyi, Legion Pro 7i w/ i9 and 4080 is live on Lenovo's site. I ordered using a 5% off code and 6% cash back through Rakeuten. Delivers end of Feb so I have time to cancel if initial reviews don't look good. 

 

Legion Pro 7i Gen 8 (16″ Intel) | AI-tuned Gaming Laptop | Lenovo US

 

 

Did the same. I also had about $60 in rewards from the L5 I ordered before Christmas. If this doesn't work out, I'll just keep my 3070 Ti L5 and probably just go with the Blade 16.

[KING19]

1 hour ago, DarginMahkum said:

It is not about upgrading yourself, the spec says max 32GB - meaning 64GB is not supported. Maybe something to do with the overclocked configuration, I am not sure.

 

Its supported because the i9-13900HX can support up to 128GB of RAM

 

https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/232171/intel-core-i913900hx-processor-36m-cache-up-to-5-40-ghz.html

 

Problem is its very tough to get your hands on a 64GB DDR5 5600Mhz RAM kit though.

 

 

[saturnotaku]

2 hours ago, DarginMahkum said:

It is not about upgrading yourself, the spec says max 32GB - meaning 64GB is not supported. Maybe something to do with the overclocked configuration, I am not sure.

 

The maximum capacity listed on the spec sheet is per slot, not the laptop as a whole.

[saturnotaku]

Lenovo has also massively expanded Vantage's functionality to now include the tweaking of power limits and fan curves, at least for Gen 8 models. Jarrod will have more information in his video that will be going live in about 9 hours from the time I'm making this post.

[IamTechknow]

Be sure to check the spec sheet at the bottom of the page:

 

https://psref.lenovo.com/syspool/Sys/PDF/Legion/Legion_Pro_7_16IRX8H/Legion_Pro_7_16IRX8H_Spec.pdf

 

There's a note or disclaimer that "The max memory is based on the test results with current Lenovo® memory offerings. The system may support more memory as the technology develops." Otherwise the max memory says "Up to 32GB DDR5-5600 offering". I like to believe this is per module, not sure why those two words aren't there but I'm sure Jarrod can clarify that.

 

Also some other interesting features revealed by the spec sheet:

 

Display has G-SYNC (and AMD FreeSync) and Advanced Optimus

Up to 140W USB power delivery charging

80W or 99.9W battery with "Super Rapid Charge"

[saturnotaku]

Advanced Optimus support is nothing new but the 240 Hz refresh rate is, at least in North America. Jarrod also confirmed that the Gen 8 still does not conform to the PD 3.1 standard and that max charge over USB-C is only available on a 20V/7A adapter. One positive change is that both Type-C ports can be used for charging so now I can have a single cable solution with power and video with a dongle. 

[DarginMahkum]

8 hours ago, KING19 said:

 

Its supported because the i9-13900HX can support up to 128GB of RAM

 

https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/232171/intel-core-i913900hx-processor-36m-cache-up-to-5-40-ghz.html

 

Problem is its very tough to get your hands on a 64GB DDR5 5600Mhz RAM kit though.

 

 

Again, it has nothing to do with what the processor can support. It is what is given in technical specification from Lenovo. I am also not sure if it is per slot thing, as I have never seen a per slot specification without giving the number of slots before.

 

Maybe there are no 32GB 5600 SODIMM modules? Maybe even if there's, there's a problem with this in 2x32 configuration? I am not sure, but the post from IamTechknow kind if confirms this.

 

[saturnotaku]

There are other rather notable downgrades to the Pro 7 versus last year's models. Some of them I knew, others were found by digging through the PSREF (PSREF Legion Legion Pro 7 16IRX8H (lenovo.com)). They are:

 

• In addition to the Ethernet port being flipped the wrong way (release prong down) like it was on the 2021 Legion line, it's now 1 Gbps instead 2.5.
• The rear lights that indicate which port is where are gone.
• Here's the big one: The trackpad is now plastic instead of glass. This would also imply that the top deck is plastic like the Legion 5/5 Pro. 

 

I'm very disappointed in the last change and am now seriously considering cancelling my order.

 

Edit: Jarrod discusses these things and more in his video.

 

 

[jlp0209]

2 hours ago, saturnotaku said:

There are other rather notable downgrades to the Pro 7 versus last year's models. Some of them I knew, others were found by digging through the PSREF (PSREF Legion Legion Pro 7 16IRX8H (lenovo.com)). They are:

 

• In addition to the Ethernet port being flipped the wrong way (release prong down) like it was on the 2021 Legion line, it's now 1 Gbps instead 2.5.
• The rear lights that indicate which port is where are gone.
• Here's the big one: The trackpad is now plastic instead of glass. This would also imply that the top deck is plastic like the Legion 5/5 Pro. 

 

I'm very disappointed in the last change and am now seriously considering cancelling my order.

 

Edit: Jarrod discusses these things and more in his video.

 

 

 

I just watched the hands-on as well, interesting move by Lenovo and one that I don't agree with. Makes me wonder how the Pro 5 will be with similar config; if it goes up to a 4080 as well then there's no point in buying the Pro 7i, for me. Can always flash the vbios if Lenovo gimps a 4080 on a Pro 5. The chassis downgrades are disappointing. After having Windows Hello face unlock on my current laptop I am not sure I want to go back to something that doesn't have that or even a fingerprint scanner. Also very curious if removing the holes on the topside affect thermals at all. Lastly, the removal of the lit port labels on the back of the laptop- why?!?! That was such a great feature that I took advantage of daily when I had my old L7. 

 

The only redeeming qualities to me are 1) vapor chamber and 2) the new Vantage software. I love that you can tweak everything down to GPU TGP in 10 watt increments. Performance will have to be more than just a little better than the competition for me to buy this, I think. 

 

If they end up making a Legion 9 or whatever that has more bells and whistles, that's a d**ck move. 

 

[KING19]

9 hours ago, DarginMahkum said:

Again, it has nothing to do with what the processor can support. It is what is given in technical specification from Lenovo. I am also not sure if it is per slot thing, as I have never seen a per slot specification without giving the number of slots before.

 

Maybe there are no 32GB 5600 SODIMM modules? Maybe even if there's, there's a problem with this in 2x32 configuration? I am not sure, but the post from IamTechknow kind if confirms this.

 

 

The laptop itself can support whatever the processor supports and also previous gens of Lenovo Legions can support up to 64GBs of RAM because of what Intel and AMD processors supported.

 

I just said that its very tough to get your hands on one, not only the kit but the stick itself, However 32GB DDR5 4800mhz ram sticks are way more common.

 

6 hours ago, saturnotaku said:

There are other rather notable downgrades to the Pro 7 versus last year's models. Some of them I knew, others were found by digging through the PSREF (PSREF Legion Legion Pro 7 16IRX8H (lenovo.com)). They are:

 

• In addition to the Ethernet port being flipped the wrong way (release prong down) like it was on the 2021 Legion line, it's now 1 Gbps instead 2.5.
• The rear lights that indicate which port is where are gone.
• Here's the big one: The trackpad is now plastic instead of glass. This would also imply that the top deck is plastic like the Legion 5/5 Pro. 

 

I'm very disappointed in the last change and am now seriously considering cancelling my order.

 

Edit: Jarrod discusses these things and more in his video.

 

 

 

Just as we thought, its a massive downgrade. If they wanted to save money so badly they could of just kept the 2022 Legion 7 design without changing anything. The good news is that they finally added fan control without being forced of using a 3rd party app for it.

 

[saturnotaku]

According to someone on reddit, the Chinese equivalent of the Pro 7i is just an upgraded 5 Pro. As such, a potential Legion 9 series is not out of the question. I canceled my order and will re-evaluate my options. The Best Buy special Alienware M16 is next on my list as I really, really don't fancy spending $4200 on the mini LED Blade 16.

[DarginMahkum]

3 hours ago, KING19 said:

The laptop itself can support whatever the processor supports and also previous gens of Lenovo Legions can support up to 64GBs of RAM because of what Intel and AMD processors supported.

I don't know why I am having this ping pong with you. "Can" support is one thing, that the system "supports" (e.g. 2 slots 8nstead of four) it is another thing. Last generation is one thing, this generation is another thing. I earn a living doing DSP and embedded systems programming, and have been programming for many years.  So it is not that I don't know what CPU support means but I am just referring to the Lenovo specification. That is it. True, I am missing the part about how the recent DRAM controller address bus etc. are and can be configured, but it is still weird that they specify a max 32 GBs in their specs. And yes, there is only one 32GB stick @ 5600 MHz I could find but it is not that it is impossible to buy or super expensive.

 

 

Anyway, my last post on this topic especially as I am not considering buying this laptop.

[jlp0209]

2 hours ago, saturnotaku said:

According to someone on reddit, the Chinese equivalent of the Pro 7i is just an upgraded 5 Pro. As such, a potential Legion 9 series is not out of the question. I canceled my order and will re-evaluate my options. The Best Buy special Alienware M16 is next on my list as I really, really don't fancy spending $4200 on the mini LED Blade 16.

Don’t want to derail the thread, but if you go the M16 route through Dell there’s a 10% off coupon floating around. I priced the same config including 4 year premium support for $2650-ish before tax. I’d then buy some 32gb ddr5 kit somewhere else. 
 

Anyhow, I also canceled my Pro 7i order. 

[saturnotaku]

11 hours ago, jlp0209 said:

Don’t want to derail the thread, but if you go the M16 route through Dell there’s a 10% off coupon floating around. I priced the same config including 4 year premium support for $2650-ish before tax. I’d then buy some 32gb ddr5 kit somewhere else. 
 

Anyhow, I also canceled my Pro 7i order. 

 

I won't order through Dell because the last 4 times I attempted to do so, they cancelled without explanation despite having direct authorization from my credit card company as well as verified PayPal. I also have BB TotalTech so I get 2 years of ADH coverage baked in and 60-day returns. I'll just wait until the first round of discounts as it will give more time for additional models to start making their way to the store. Maybe I'll see an Asus or some other brand I like more.

[IamTechknow]

I do agree with Jarrod's points. I have seen his past videos where he praised the 2021 and 2022 Legion 5 and 7 laptops as among the best "overall" gaming laptops of the year. There are some downgrades, some are mere QOL and some more so than that. Understandably, this is for the 7i Pro laptop, it'll be interesting to see how other models fair when they come out. So I'll keep waiting for a model with a GeForce RTX 4070 GPU, or a model with an AMD CPU in it. And for any laptop this year I be curious to see if the CPU can be undervolted.

[KING19]

20 hours ago, DarginMahkum said:

I don't know why I am having this ping pong with you. "Can" support is one thing, that the system "supports" (e.g. 2 slots 8nstead of four) it is another thing. Last generation is one thing, this generation is another thing. I earn a living doing DSP and embedded systems programming, and have been programming for many years.  So it is not that I don't know what CPU support means but I am just referring to the Lenovo specification. That is it. True, I am missing the part about how the recent DRAM controller address bus etc. are and can be configured, but it is still weird that they specify a max 32 GBs in their specs. And yes, there is only one 32GB stick @ 5600 MHz I could find but it is not that it is impossible to buy or super expensive.

 

 

Anyway, my last post on this topic especially as I am not considering buying this laptop.

 

Again the laptop supports whatever the CPU/Chipset supports which 128GBs but since there are no 64GBs DDR5 ram sticks out there as of yet so the maximum RAM capacity possible is still 64GBs. Also read below 

On 2/9/2023 at 9:50 PM, IamTechknow said:

Be sure to check the spec sheet at the bottom of the page:

 

https://psref.lenovo.com/syspool/Sys/PDF/Legion/Legion_Pro_7_16IRX8H/Legion_Pro_7_16IRX8H_Spec.pdf

 

There's a note or disclaimer that "The max memory is based on the test results with current Lenovo® memory offerings. The system may support more memory as the technology develops." Otherwise the max memory says "Up to 32GB DDR5-5600 offering". I like to believe this is per module, not sure why those two words aren't there but I'm sure Jarrod can clarify that.

 

 

Offering*

 

Lenovo and other OEM's rarely offered more than 32GBs of RAM configurations on their websites and it was same in previous generations, hell in Gen 5 and Gen 6 they didnt offered more than 16GBs RAM configurations but the laptops can be upgraded to 64GBs of RAM. Also even they did they would overcharge customers for it anyways especially DDR5-5600 ones.

[DarginMahkum]

29 minutes ago, KING19 said:

Again the laptop supports whatever the CPU/Chipset supports which 128GBs but since there are no 64GBs DDR5 ram sticks out there as of yet so the maximum RAM capacity possible is still 64GBs. Also read below 

If you instead of repeating the same thing over and over again would read my posts properly, you would see that I already mentioned that post in my second post.

 

I don't know the specifications of the chipset, what timings are supported, how the bus lines are allocated to a slot, what the specifications of SODIMM are. And as you can see from the Razer spec, there's a limitation of the timings etc., so it is not just providing the pins, provide enough DRAM chips and it will just work. There are other limitations at play for specifying what a single slot can support. I didn't study the standards and the memory controller, so as someone developing software (and hardware) for many years, I would be careful not to use definitive statements about what is possible before making sure per standards it is possible to have 64GB on single slot properly functioning (also don't forget that larger modules used for servers have different standards like LRDIMM compared to what consumer desktops and laptops use).

 

Anyway, back to the topic: It is just weird that Lenovo does not mention the possible memory configurations (including 64GB) properly, whereas Razer does. 

 

[KING19]

20 hours ago, DarginMahkum said:

If you instead of repeating the same thing over and over again would read my posts properly, you would see that I already mentioned that post in my second post.

 

I don't know the specifications of the chipset, what timings are supported, how the bus lines are allocated to a slot, what the specifications of SODIMM are. And as you can see from the Razer spec, there's a limitation of the timings etc., so it is not just providing the pins, provide enough DRAM chips and it will just work. There are other limitations at play for specifying what a single slot can support. I didn't study the standards and the memory controller, so as someone developing software (and hardware) for many years, I would be careful not to use definitive statements about what is possible before making sure per standards it is possible to have 64GB on single slot properly functioning (also don't forget that larger modules used for servers have different standards like LRDIMM compared to what consumer desktops and laptops use).

 

Anyway, back to the topic: It is just weird that Lenovo does not mention the possible memory configurations (including 64GB) properly, whereas Razer does. 

 

 

Im repeating myself because you're not listening especially my last post well but i also dont wanna go back and forth with you about it:

 

"Again the laptop supports whatever the CPU/Chipset supports which 128GBs but since there are no 64GBs DDR5 ram sticks out there as of yet so the maximum RAM capacity possible is still 64GBs."

 

According to the specs sheet of the Legion 7 Pro it can use either 4800MHZ and 5600MHZ and It'll use the same SODIMM 268 pin count as other DDR5 chips so matter what the capacity.

 

To answer your question to stay on topic i have no idea why Lenovo not mention the possible memory configurations. Like i said in my last post and it was same in previous generations so they go by the maximum memory they offered.

[DarginMahkum]

52 minutes ago, KING19 said:

Im repeating myself because you're not listening especially my last post well but i also dont wanna go back and forth with you about it:

 

"Again the laptop supports whatever the CPU/Chipset supports which 128GBs but since there are no 64GBs DDR5 ram sticks out there as of yet so the maximum RAM capacity possible is still 64GBs."

You simply don't get it, do you. The laptop does not support what the CPU or chipset support, it supports what the full functional unit specification "CAN" support, which is from the CPU to the SO-DIMM slot. Although the CPU can support 128 GB, if the SO-DIMM specification does not support it due to for example possible interference between very narrow pins, the laptop will not support it, that is it.

 

1 hour ago, KING19 said:

According to the specs sheet of the Legion 7 Pro it can use either 4800MHZ and 5600MHZ and It'll use the same SODIMM 268 pin count as other DDR5 chips so matter what the capacity.

 

262 pins, not 268. Pin count of SO-DIMM module, not the DDR5 chips.

 

58 minutes ago, KING19 said:

To answer your question to stay on topic i have no idea why Lenovo not mention the possible memory configurations. Like i said in my last post and it was same in previous generations so they go by the maximum memory they offered.

I did not ask any questions. Read the post carefully.

[KING19]

19 hours ago, DarginMahkum said:

You simply don't get it, do you. The laptop does not support what the CPU or chipset support, it supports what the full functional unit specification "CAN" support, which is from the CPU to the SO-DIMM slot. Although the CPU can support 128 GB, if the SO-DIMM specification does not support it due to for example possible interference between very narrow pins, the laptop will not support it, that is it.

 

 

262 pins, not 268. Pin count of SO-DIMM module, not the DDR5 chips.

 

I did not ask any questions. Read the post carefully.

 

Yes it does..... Im done repeating myself because you wont listen.. It still doesnt change the fact of what i said so for now the laptop will support 64GBs of RAM maximum total because of that reason. Whenever 64GBs DDR5 SO-DIMM's RAM sticks appears in the marketplace one day (years from now i think) because 64GBs is still a lot of RAM for a laptop.  Also it will use the same amount of pins no matter what the capacity and it wont be any interference like you're saying. Incase if it does use less or more pins it wont be compatible with the laptop for obvious reasons

 

Also i made a mistake and you're right that DDR5-SODIMM Laptop RAM only uses 262 pins. Since DDR5 SO-DIMM Laptop RAM uses 262 pins it'll be compatible with most laptops including Razer that you mentioned 4800MHZ, 5200MHZ, 5600MHZ uses the same amount of pins.

 

"Anyway, back to the topic: It is just weird that Lenovo does not mention the possible memory configurations (including 64GB) properly, whereas Razer does."

 

^I dont know how to split quotes on this forum but anyways even you didnt asked a question it still doesnt change my reply at all.

 

Anyways lets move on and get back on topic, I dont want us to keep going back and forth in this thread over nothing.

 

[jlp0209]

Will you guys please just move on...

[ryan]

geeze... king is right. i have a omen 16 and it supports only 32gb..but if i want i can do 64gb verified..the slot for the ddr5 is identical for all units...its called a standard wink wink

[DarginMahkum]

The level of "understanding" here is mind blowing... As if I said the physical properties of a slot is the only factor that defines a standard.

 

7 hours ago, ryan said:

geeze... king is right. i have a omen 16 and it supports only 32gb..but if i want i can do 64gb verified..the slot for the ddr5 is identical for all units...its called a standard wink wink

 

You cannot verify it as there's no SO-DIMM with 64GB per module. The discussion was not about if the 64GB is supported on a laptop, it is about claiming just because the CPU can support 128GB of address space, it will be possible to populate 128GB on a two memory slot laptop. I am trying to explain just because you fill in enough chips on a memory module does not mean it will be usable as it has to be part of the DDR5 SO-DIMM specification, and there are other factors than just the number of chips that limits it, and it can only be confirmed by what the DRAM controller and SO-DIMM specification supports. I don't know why it is so difficult to grasp.

 

I am out of this silly discussion. It is just mind blowing people can make such assumptions and stand behind it without knowing the slightest about what the specifications are, how a DRAM controller works. Unbelievable.

 

"Dell’s CAMM DRAM avoids SODIMM bandwidth limitations by using a compression connector. The benefits are already apparent with higher capacity modules. CAMM modules scale from 16GB to 128GB; the 128GB modules can run at DDR5-4800, whereas DDR5 SODIMMs only scale to 32GB. You’d need four 32GB SODIMMs to get 128GB, and you’d be limited to DDR5-3600 in that configuration. Thus, the benefits of CAMM can already be realized at the high end, both in terms of footprint and performance."

 

https://www.storagereview.com/review/dell-camm-dram-the-new-laptop-standard

 

Why SO-DIMM is at the end of its life being replaced by CAMM, possibly from 2024 on...

 

https://www.makeuseof.com/camm-vs-sodimm-ram/

[ryan]

I agree with @KING19 its all good man.

[saturnotaku]

Not that I would advise ordering from B&H, but they list the 4090-equipped Pro 7i as "coming soon" for $3299.

 

Lenovo 16" Legion Pro 7 16IRX8H Gaming Laptop 82WQ002TUS B&H (bhphotovideo.com)

 

That being the case, I expect it to become available directly from Lenovo in the near future as well.