lg Gram - Durability long term - Paint and screen (16Z90P)

[extremecarver]

How are your LG Gram's holding up? In general mine holds up pretty good. Battery degradation is for me noticeable after nearly 2 years of use - but still pretty good. Clearly not as good as it once was however.

 

The main problems are - the super flexible screen - seems to get more dead pixels. I have 8 white pixels if I count correctly. I never had such a problem before that slowly more pixels became dead - but then it's way more flexible display as I ever had before. Luckily the resolution is high so it's only visible on a full black screen (or single color). On the plus side - besides the dead pixels the screen is still very uniform and the backlight hasn't lost power. It's still really hard to see on the balcony in shadow when it's very light in summer however. Would still prefer a semi matte solution (and 50-100nits more brightness).

 

More annoying is the paint slowly loosing touch with the magnesium body. I used a blade to scrape of the paint on the edges because micro bubbles if formed are pretty sharp. I think this happens in combination with sweat. Never had such a problem before on another laptop. It's a bit more annyoing around the touchpad area. Cannot easily flatten it there.

 

Fingerprint reader has clearly become degraded too. Get about 50% wrong results and yes I updated my fingers in Windows. I still used Windows 10 as some days on 11 had much worse battery life so I rolled back and don't plan on upgrading as long as Windows 10 is supported.

 

Keyboard had some keys getting stuck - taking the cap off and putting it back carefully solved it. 

 

Great - the display hinge still works like new. Touchpad glass is still very good - and the keyboard hasn't gotten smeary either. The palm rests lost some texture and are a bit stickier - but less so than on other notebooks used before.

 

 

Overall - not as sturdy as some older Lenovo Thinkpads (e.g. T440s) but actually better than my previous laptop - a Thinkpad T480s (which I never should have bought because it had too many problems right out of the box). I would give it 9/10 (considering the light weight, or 8/10 not regarding the weight). Components/hardware inside all fine - no problems. 

 

The chassis of the Gram 16 still holds up very well - even though I often stuffed it into my backpack without any cover while hiking/backpacking/travelling. If I could chose - I would opt for a plain magensium chassis without color however. The main upgrade still would be a brighter and less mirroring display - the second big upgrade of course would be if it used AMD Ryzen platform for even better battery life and thirdly some more supports below the chassis so it flexes less (anything I glued on didn't survive long term). I will wait out I think another 2 years before upgrading - and then hope for a laptop with those problems solved - and also will chose 32GB RAM. Cutting video 16GB RAM is a bit troublesome. I don't compile other stuff on the laptop - I do that remotely on servers (with 64 respectively 128GB RAM) so only video cutting is where the Gram 16 is limited for what I ever did and really noticeable not that fast - it's both the internal graphics and the RAM however which are a factor. I don't cut video often so I do want IGP only as battery life overall is more important to me. I do want to stick to lg gram form factor and weight class with great battery life.

 

 

Oh yeah in super low temperatures the battery fared really bad. Used it in Nepal at -5° Celsius and the numbers dropped liked a stone. Was happy to get 4 hours or so at those temps. Yeah my T440s didn't do better but never had such a great battery life in first place (meaning it lost comparatively less).

[RS4]

I have a  LG Gram 16Z90P in white colour, have kept the battery charging locked to 80% since the start and the battery health is excellent, battery wear level is at just 1.1%.

 

The screen is in excellent condition, zero dead pixels and brightness is same as new.

 

The white paint used by LG is good, no chipping/bubbling or fading or yellowing.

 

Fingerprint reader works as good as new, no change. I have kept the laptop on Windows 10, have added 2TB SK Hynix P31 to the second SSD slot. 

 

Keyboard is in good condition, no stuck keys, some frequently used keys show signs of oil which is expected on a white keyboard.

 

Touchpad is as good as new, palmrest is also in excellent condition, the white paint used is fantastic.

 

The Gram chassis is strong, I move it around daily from desk to sofa to bed and have also travelled with it in a laptop backpack with zero issues.  

 

conclusion:  I am very happy with the LG Gram 16, no complaints, I plan to use the same laptop for 5 years and will keep updating the thread here.

[John Ratsey]

I'm now on my 2nd Gram 17 and each has accumulated about 6 months use as a desktop. The most obvious wear being a shiny area on the left palm rest. The 2021 Gram 17 (16GB RAM) was bought secondhand in early 2022. My eyes loved the big screen (apart from the occasional reflection problem) but occasionally suffered major slow-downs due to full RAM (Windows' memory management asleep on the job?). When I saw a 32GB 2022 Gram 17 in Amazon Warehouse at 2/3rd of the new price I grabbed it. This has solved both the overflowing RAM problem and the screen reflections. The only improvement which would get me to upgrade would be a better cooling system as the current inadequate small fan limits the CPU performance (every now and again I unsuccessfully search the www for a dual fan cooling solution).

 

I would note that my Gram 17 is either in use on my desk or put away if I need the desk space for something else. I use a 13" Galaxy Book Pro for travel. If I did need to take the Gram 17 out of the house then I've got a neoprene sleeve made for a 15" notebook which fits nicely.

[Steerpike]

I posted here (with a picture) -

 

that the coating on the spacebar and several keys (esp. Alt) is coming off  after less than a year of gentle use. Palm rests are so far holding up, but then, I don't rest hard on them; I've found the trackpad to be not very good at palm-rejection, so I have trained myself to keep my wrists / palms elevated. 

 

I'd love to see a picture of yours, with the various paint issues!  Like JohnRatsey, my machine has yet to travel! 

[extremecarver]

Here are pics of the paint problem. I could guess it's related to sweat and abrasion, in summer I live in Cyprus and it's pretty hot there so sweat is a problem, then as I said no case and into backpack for hiking or other things.

I also throw my laptop onto my bed or let it drop 10cm from time to time. I've never had a mechanical problem (except cosmetics like here) so I am rough with my gear... The paint chipping near the touchpad however is due to normal use. And even being quite careful I think on the edges I would face problems without a case. There is clearly some bonding issue of paint and magnesium...

 

(Mind my first LG gram had a hardware fault right on arrival so I had to send it back straight away (which wasn't easy due to shipping back to USA from Taiwan and lithium ion battery problem - cost 200usd with DHL of which Amazon only refunded half the concept of the gram still convinced me so I straight ordered another one)

 

I didn't clean the touchpad before taking a picture - so while the palm rest the color has gotten that shiny, the touchpad actually is a bit fatty and still works as new (something I cannot say of older Lenovo touchpads which got smeary over time).

Can also see the front with the color chipping off - that started already maybe 3-4 months into using the laptop - so I scraped it of and sometimes have to scrape a bit further as the edges get shar on new paint scraping off.

 

),

 

 

[extremecarver]

BTW - the baseplate has some different material - so there the color chips of without those sharp edges. The sharp edges are why I had to scrape of the color - because it hurts on the skin at the places the color srapes off.

 

My perfect Gram would be a 500 nits screen, with 3200x2000 resolution or maybe even 4K if it doesn't impact battery life too much on ZEN 4 anymore, OLED if battery use is same as backlit LED, ZEN 4 and a 99WH battery, same format as right now, keep weight nearly same too (guess 99WH battery would be 40g heavier vs 80WH, add 20g on the chassis so it flexes less in the middle/better support from below, but keep it light weight foremost). 

Yes with my use I have some dead pixels (just counted it's 9 dead ones) but I don't care much and prefer that a lot over a heavier chassis.

[extremecarver]

I got my keyboard working for a couple more weeks by exchanging the e letter - however by now it's really broken. "e" is wrongly registered or too late on like every 5. time - for the N°1 letter by usage this is horrible. So I need a new keyboard.

Also the battery is degrading like crazy now - Within 2 weeks from 69 to 67kwh. I think it's nearing it's end of life and the degradation will be pretty quick now. 

Cannot fault the battery too much, but the keyboard is really annoying - that*s way too fast to break (and no  there is no dirt below the keycap). Maybe that's due to the excessive flex so the keyboard breaks faster.

 

The build quality is simply not fully up to Lenovo/HP/Dell business notebooks but seems more like their premium consumer noteboolks. 

[extremecarver]

Next default, the SD card reader stopped working and my display has around 20 dead pixels by now.

Battery degradation stopped after summer. So it's mainly a temperature problem if used around 30° or more ambient temps it degrades very quickly.

[Steerpike]

Wow, that's not good at all! 

 

I had my Samsung NP940X5J for 7 years, used it all day/every day, and you'd hardly know it was used!  Just a slight 'polish' where the wrist rests.  But - I do like the light-weight of the LG Gram, and don't expect such amazing durability (trade-off for the weight).  I first bought the Dell XPS 17 and it was built like a tank ... but weighed a ton AND - died within a week of receipt, so not perfect either! 

[extremecarver]

Yeah, LG reallye neds to invest like 50-100 grams to make the case stiffer. Add 2-3 bumpers on the bottom, and some connectors between lower and upper layer of the case, stiffen the display with some carbon stringers.

Yeah I use the laptop very hard when transporting it. I need a laptop to join me while trekking or hiking and don't treat it lightly. But so far dell and Lenovo business Laptops held up better. Just my Lenovo t480s was a lemon.

 

Asus right now is definitely ahead on light and sturdy compartment. They did invest the additional weight (just that they took it away from battery to kinda match LG gram weight). Let's hope LG improves this in 2024. The biggest default of my gram is still the not light enough display with some sun around. It's just the question now. Replace battery and keyboard or go for a 2024 notebook all together. I really want to stick to 16" and lightweight and compact. But want 500nits display in semi matte, and a little bit sturdier design. No need for more power but better efficiency please. 11gen Intel is still powerful enough as I use servers for computing. New generation GPU for me and most business users it's only needed sometimes for video. 

 

There really should be a stronger separation from modern GPU on codecs and efficient CPU for anyone never gaming. It's like smartphone - wanna shoot good video/Pictures you need to go flagship SOC even though otherwise a mid range SOC would be alright.

 

[Steerpike]

What's a good Asus model to look into? 

 

I guess I shouldn't worry too much; My LG Gram 17 hasn't set foot outside the house since I bought it! 

[extremecarver]

Dunno, last time I was in Taiwan I had some nice ones in my hand. Also Acer and Samsung have light big screen notebooks now.

 

And if LG sticks with Intel on gram series likely battery life even with meteor lake cannot rival and 7000/8000 series. But so far no battery life numbers for low load use cases of meteor lake have shown up.

[skipper]

You should really have a look at the 2023 RTX version. There is less flex, matte screen and higher brightness. There is no other laptop at this size/weight/battery/performance.  Wish they went with Ryzen, but is is still good.

[ryan]

thanks @skipper. I was interested in a refurbished lg gram but I don't have the money for another youtube device. whats the battery life like, as im always on the hunt for the longest lasting chromebook or laptop

[extremecarver]

I am considering what to do now. I feel it's time for a new battery, and a new keyboard alone is well over 100euros. So likely 250-300 euros to get it working again for some time. Or buy a reduced 2023 one?

Really don't want an rtx , I'm fine with inbuilt graphics..

Best would be waiting out for a reduced 2024 version next year black friday and just replace the keyboard because without e it's unusable.

 

Edit: I ordered a new keyboard and palm rest for 90€ from China now - Had to take Spanish keyboard again as German keyboard I was not able to find anywhere for order. and that way my lg will look much better again as the palm rest had too many paint chips. 

Also ordered a Lexar NM 790 2TB drive for adding some storage. Wanted a 4GB but couldn't get one at a decent price. NM790 is the most efficient drive right now you can put in a notebook. Will delegate then Samsung 980 1TB to secondary drive and remove the in build drive. That should save some little bit of energy as the in built drive by LG has 0.2w on standby or so while Samsung 980 an Lexar NM 790 are the absolut champs on idle (according to Techpowerup which has the best reviews in that regard I can find on the net). So guess I try to keep it for at least one more year - and then next year black friday upgrade to a better laptop - hopefully 2024 model gets a bit stiffer, adds a 450-500nits matte screen and it looks now like with firmware updates meteor lake actually is quite efficient (same as Ryzen) - just have to hope meteor lake actually can really decrease idle power or surfing the net power draw.

 

Edit: newest battery stats - not yet 400 cycles - but battery below 80% capacity:

Battery Name    LGC-LGC    
Manufacture Name     LG     
Serial Number    20241    
Manufacture Date        
Power State    Charging, AC Power    
Current Capacity (in %)    51.5%    
Current Capacity Value    32.690 mWh    
Full Charged Capacity    63.530 mWh    
Designed Capacity    80.000 mWh    
Battery Health    79.4%    
Voltage    8.168 millivolts     
Charge/Discharge Rate     38.634 milliwatts     
Chemistry     Lithium Ion    
Low Battery Capacity (1)    200 mWh    
Low Battery Capacity (2)    400 mWh    
Critical Bias        
Number of charge/discharge cycles    387    
Battery Temperature        
Remaining battery time for the current activity (Estimated)        
Full battery time for the current activity (Estimated)        
Remaining time for charging the battery (Estimated)    00:56:04    
Total  time for charging the battery (Estimated)    01:55:31    
 

[Steerpike]

On 12/19/2023 at 10:18 AM, skipper said:

You should really have a look at the 2023 RTX version. There is less flex, matte screen and higher brightness. There is no other laptop at this size/weight/battery/performance.  Wish they went with Ryzen, but is is still good.

What is 'RTX version' in this context?  Is it an LG model, or some other model? Google suggests RTX is a 'type' of laptop, something to do with gaming, but I'm not a gamer so don't recognize the term. 

[Steerpike]

On 12/5/2023 at 11:53 PM, extremecarver said:

Next default, the SD card reader stopped working ... 

My SD Card reader (LG Gram 17 2021 model) just stopped working; this is a critical item for me. I have an external SD card reader (and the card works in it) but this is really annoying! 

 

Did you do anything to try to fix it?  Looks like the reader is direct mounted onto the motherboard so nothing to wiggle or replace. In device manager, I have nothing relevant under disk drives - just the two SSDs. I'm guessing there should be something there for the SSD drive? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[John Ratsey]

On 1/14/2024 at 4:14 AM, Steerpike said:

What is 'RTX version' in this context?  Is it an LG model, or some other model? Google suggests RTX is a 'type' of laptop, something to do with gaming, but I'm not a gamer so don't recognize the term. 

The RTX version is the Gram Pro which has an Nvidia RTX GPU and dual fans to provide better cooling. I would like the latter even though there's a small weight penalty but so far this version of the Gram 17 hasn't been on sale in the UK.

[extremecarver]

oh yeah - still not sure what' happening with the card reader. When I pop in or out a card the Device Manager reacts, but I cannot find the card reader (not even as broken device/driver missing) in the device manager. Just disappeared. Seems actually I'm not the only one with this problem. Happens quite often on LG Gram.

 

Now to my bigger gripe - exchanging the keybard. This is only possible by compeletely disassembling the laptop - meaning removing both mainboard and subboard and virtually any screw except the ones holding the heatsink (do need to remove the ventilator however). Besides not so easy to put everything back (make sure to label each screw where it came from - as overall it's like 50 screws) - my HDMI connector broke when fitting it back. It's really hard to fit back due to the pins.

 

To make matters worse - when everything was back together computer didn't do anything on power button press. So I took every connection apart again and refitted them. At that point when I tried to open the connector for the backlight of the keyboard - the plastic had become too brittle and broke. Maybe me being a little clumsy? 

 

Somehow when I thought I can bin the laptop, it turned back on. Some connector must have been not correctly inserted. Finally I can type "e" normally again - plus with the new keyboard/palm rest full assembly (you cannot change the keyboard itself alone) - laptop looks much better again. Also the new assembly is 12g heavier and a bit stiffer! Seems LG changed something during the course of producing the 16z90p. It's the same part number - so make of it what you like. But this is not a margin difference but actually clearly a little different.

 

 

As for the battery - a hiking trip to Nepal and use of the laptop at subzero temperatues gave it another blow. It's now down to 58wH capacity when fully charged (instead of 80wH - at -5° it actually showed it would be 35wH left only, but then recovered in normal temps) - so clearly needs opening up too and exchange for a new battery soon. Contacted LG to tell me the official distributor in my country so that I can order a non fake new battery. Another thing is the loudspeakers - I'm pretty sure they aren't as loud as when new anymore. And if I overdrive them via tools - they do start to sound bad quite early. Next 16" laptop maybe from MSI? They have a 1600g 99wH 16" laptop now. I will wait 1 to 1.5 years until replacement however if nothing major breaks. The HDMI I have used like two times - so it's not important to me. I connect my display via USB-C/thunderbolt anyhow.

[extremecarver]

Oh and a Lexar NVME790 disk, inserted in slot 1 - somehow doesn't manage NVME 1.4 speeds, it only works at 1.3 speeds - not sure why. I cannot find the reason - only others documenting the same problem. Is it possible that both NVME share the same 8 lanes, so if you insert 2 NVMEs cannot get slow one to work at 4x16.0GT? Essentially the Lexar runs only at half speed (it's one of the fastest Gen 4 NVME out there - and without dram it saves power - that's why I went for it vs others, same as my now secondary Samsung 980 (non Pro) - but that is only Gen 3 drive.

[John Ratsey]

9 hours ago, extremecarver said:

oh yeah - still not sure what' happening with the card reader. When I pop in or out a card the Device Manager reacts, but I cannot find the card reader (not even as broken device/driver missing) in the device manager. Just disappeared. Seems actually I'm not the only one with this problem. Happens quite often on LG Gram.

The card reader doesn't show up in device manager as a storage drive unless a card is inserted and recognised (the same applies to the USB ports). I suspect that the problem is a bad/dirty contact which prevents the card from being recognised. You could try cleaning the contacts with a suitably sized piece of thin cardboard soaked in isopropyl alcohol pushed in and out of the slot.

 

I admire your bravery in changing the keyboard. At least it was replaceable. I recall that some years the Samsung keyboards were bonded to the back of the palmrest and not built for replacement.

 

Both SSDs (WD) in my 17Z90Q show up as 4x in HWiNFO.

 

Samsung make a Galaxy Book 3 Pro with 16" screen. It might be worth investigating when you LG suffers too much from the hard working life you have given it. My Gram 17 has an easy life in comparison and rarely moves from my desk.

[extremecarver]

It is screwed or bonded to the palm rest here as well. Which in turn has everything like Mainboard, sub board attached to it. It's by far the repair needing most effort

 

Changing the display, or even Mainboard or sub board is much easier.

 

The only thing you don't have to unscrew is the heatpipe (except the single screw where it attaches to the palm rest, and the SSDs. Plus you could leave the touchpad connector and loudspeaker connectors connected if you like. Everything else that can be removed needs to be removed (as ram and CPU are soldered to the mainboard).

 

I'm not sure if you can actually change the panel without getting a panel+ part of case because that is glued I think.

Actually upgrading the display if you get it fully assembled with it's half of the hinge would be very easy so an easy path to upgrade (open hinge and unattach wifi antenna and display connector is very quick.

 

And no I already cleaned the ad card reader thoroughly, no help. It's soldered onto the sub board so no connector to check either. Sub board is clearly well connected as otherwise no charging possible or switch on.

[extremecarver]

Oh yeah, I know you can actually buy keyboards alone without palm rest. That will be next to impossible to use, I guess it's both glued and screwed by like 48 micro screws or so to the palm rest below the mainboard/sub board area.

Lucky that I ordered with palm rest anyhow because my palm rest was so shot from paint chipping off.

[Steerpike]

13 hours ago, extremecarver said:

...

Lucky that I ordered with palm rest anyhow because my palm rest was so shot from paint chipping off.

Just a general comment / question about your impressive efforts here ... from what you are saying, it sounds like you replaced the entire 'base' or 'chassis' of the laptop, if what you got was the keyboard plus palm rest? The 'palm rest' is really the entire structure that surrounds the keyboard, is it not, to which all other things are mounted (mobo, speakers, battery, etc)?  I guess it did not include the trackpad.  This is my LG Gram 17, for reference: 

 

[extremecarver]

yes - the whole side of the chassis (minus the flabbery bottom layer) - and yes I ordered it without trackpad as my one is still fine and a new touchpad would have added 30 or 40 euros if I remember correctly.

 

Sadly had to go for Spanish keyboard again, couldn't get German. Only Spanish spain, Japanese, Chinese and English US I found to buy online.

 

And yeah - I think those offers to buy either simply a panel or simply a keybaord are fake products. If you need a new panel - means panel plus the pannel chassis. I doubt you can pry the panel chassis apart and glue it back together without messing/breaking things. Or maybe you could buy panel alone, but would need to find a new chassis for it as well that has fresh glue strips.

 

This video was very helpful - it's hard ( I didn't manage) to remove the display if that is not the very first thing you do:

 

 

the other problem is fitting back the mainboard - it get's stuck on the pins and I don't know what kind of movement is needed to get it back on. Removing is easy enough so there must be a trick. Sadly there is no video on how to reassemble.