LG Gram 17 (2021): Some Impressions

[John Ratsey]

8 hours ago, Steerpike said:

SSD Thermal pads - something like this? 

https://www.amazon.com/Thermal-pad，-70x20x1-5mm-Pcie-Heatsinks/dp/B07QMWB4W6/ref=sr_1_11

 

Intuitively you'd think a 'foam'-like product would insulate rather than radiate, but - obviously not!  a pad like that would appear to be just the right thing!  

 

Did you apply to both sides? The SSD I bought was single sided, so I would assume there's space on both sides for padding. Unsure whether the pre-installed SSD is two sided or not. 

I used this and cut a piece to suit my needs. I had some left over from using the material in previous years to improve cooling of hot chips (earlier generations of SSDs used a lot more power when under load). However, a compressible pad could give an advantage if it touches the computer base but avoids the risk of transfering load onto the SSD.

 

I did not apply any pad to the bottom of my SSDs. The chips are only on one side and there's not much space between the SSDs and the mainboard so a very thin pad would be needed. I don't think the pads are needed for thermal management. My WD SSDs don't exceed around 55C unlike some of the SSDs from earlier era (I bought my first in 2009).

[Steerpike]

On 3/26/2023 at 12:33 AM, John Ratsey said:

I used this and cut a piece to suit my needs. I had some left over from using the material in previous years to improve cooling of hot chips (earlier generations of SSDs used a lot more power when under load). However, a compressible pad could give an advantage if it touches the computer base but avoids the risk of transfering load onto the SSD.

 

I did not apply any pad to the bottom of my SSDs. The chips are only on one side and there's not much space between the SSDs and the mainboard so a very thin pad would be needed. I don't think the pads are needed for thermal management. My WD SSDs don't exceed around 55C unlike some of the SSDs from earlier era (I bought my first in 2009).

I added the pads last night (applied to the original Samsung SSD AND the WD SSD for good measure).  I can still hear the weird sound, but I think it's been muted to the point where I can't hear it at normal distance from the keyboard; I have to put my ear closer to the keyboard to hear it now.

 

I've never encountered a material like this before! I can't believe it works as a heatsink! 

 

I only did some rudimentary tests BEFORE installation, but I saw that the 'idle' temp of my WD SSD was about 39C, and when I did an intense search of the drive, I got it up to  50C. After installing the pad, idle seemed to drop to 34C, and the hottest I could get it afterwards was 41C - a whopping 9C less!  I wonder if the foam is actually touching the laptop case, and is transferring heat to the metal cover? Anyway - thanks again for the tip! 

 

Hopefully I'm done opening up the case for a while.  It did occur to me that you could drill a hole through the center of the foot pads so as to give access to the screws without having to remove the feet all the time.  The hole wouldn't even have to be big enough for the screw to pass through; just big enough to squeeze a screwdriver through. But drilling through rubber may or may not result in a clean hole.  But I'm done for now ... 

 

Regarding the 'original' (disk 0) SSD that is delivered with the laptop; on mine, it's a Samsung MZVLB512HBJQ. I installed Samsung Magician (v 7.3.0) and it 'sees' the drive, but shows a bunch of 'NA' messages, as if it weren't a Samsung model. 

 

 

That model number - MZVLB512HBJQ - certainly doesn't match any of the 'supported' drives from Samsung in the 'Magician' description, but I would have thought they would support it nonetheless.  It's not a big deal but since I installed the WD program, I was curious to see what I could read about the Samsung SSD (I was looking specifically for temperatures). Seems like lots of people encounter this issue but no clear remedy; installing a Samsung driver seems to be one solution, but since this is my boot drive I'm not too keen on that. 

 

[John Ratsey]

30 minutes ago, Steerpike said:

I only did some rudimentary tests BEFORE installation, but I saw that the 'idle' temp of my WD SSD was about 39C, and when I did an intense search of the drive, I got it up to  50C. After installing the pad, idle seemed to drop to 34C, and the hottest I could get it afterwards was 41C - a whopping 9C less!  I wonder if the foam is actually touching the laptop case, and is transferring heat to the metal cover? Anyway - thanks again for the tip! 

 

Regarding the 'original' (disk 0) SSD that is delivered with the laptop; on mine, it's a Samsung MZVLB512HBJQ. I installed Samsung Magician (v 7.3.0) and it 'sees' the drive, but shows a bunch of 'NA' messages, as if it weren't a Samsung model.

I didn't do before and after tests for the thermal pads as the pads were applied when I installed the SSDs. A drop of 9C is impressive.

 

My 2022 Gram 17 came with the 1TB version of that Samsung SSD (it's the PM9A1) but I never tried running Samsung Magician because once I had checked out the computer I replaced the SSD with the 2TB WD SN850. The Samsung SSD is in the WD's box so it can be put back in the future if the Gram 17 gets rehomed. You should find that HWiNFO can read the Samsung's SMART data.

[Steerpike]

7 hours ago, John Ratsey said:

I didn't do before and after tests for the thermal pads as the pads were applied when I installed the SSDs. A drop of 9C is impressive.

 

My 2022 Gram 17 came with the 1TB version of that Samsung SSD (it's the PM9A1) but I never tried running Samsung Magician because once I had checked out the computer I replaced the SSD with the 2TB WD SN850. The Samsung SSD is in the WD's box so it can be put back in the future if the Gram 17 gets rehomed. You should find that HWiNFO can read the Samsung's SMART data.

You got me researching. Your (2022) LG Gram came with the PM9A1 SSD family, which is PCIe 4.0 x4, while my (2021) LG Gram came with the PM981a SSD family, which is PCIe 3.0 x4.  It seems Samsung releases these 'OEM' SSD's with the same basic components as their 'consumer' models. However, they don't allow/support use of their 'Magician' software with these OEM versions. 

 

I now realize that my just-added 2TB WD is much faster than the 1TB pre-installed device.  I presume you decided to clone/replace the pre-installed device rather than add the 2TB to take advantage of the extra speed, at the expense of 'wasting' 1 TB of storage? I might just do the same!  What did you use to clone the drive? Did you clone all the partitions, and were you able to verify that all partitions were usable after the clone?  I've just started using Macrium Reflect as a replacement for Acronis. 

 

By the way - my local Costco is now selling the 2022 LG Gram 17 (512 GB SSD, 16 GB RAM) for $999! I presume they are making way for the 2023 model ... Online, they have the 1TB / 32 GB version for $1,499. 

 

[John Ratsey]

8 hours ago, Steerpike said:

I presume you decided to clone/replace the pre-installed device rather than add the 2TB to take advantage of the extra speed, at the expense of 'wasting' 1 TB of storage? I might just do the same!  What did you use to clone the drive? Did you clone all the partitions, and were you able to verify that all partitions were usable after the clone?  I've just started using Macrium Reflect as a replacement for Acronis. 

I already had 4TB on the 2021 Gram 17 and wouldn't want to have less storage capacity. I also didn't want to overwrite the 2TB boot drive in the older Gram 17 so it was a matter of finding the best deal on an fast new 2TB SSD (WD SN850). I then cloned the Samsung 1TB onto the 2TB WD SN850 temporarily placed in a USB NVMe enclosure and moved over the 2TB WD SN770 from the second slot in the older Gram 17. For historical reasons I've got my SSDs arranged in several partitions with those on the 2nd, slightly slower, SSD being data that is mainly read with little writing so that SSD has more opportunity to sleep.

 

I used to use Acronis which sometimes gave me problems but have been using Macrium Reflect for several years without problems. I should add, however, that I put the target SSD into an internal enclosure to avoid the risk of the cloning software thinking there will be two boot SSDs in the computer (which might arise if the target is in the 2nd SSD slot). Minitool Partition Wizard is my currently preferred tool for partition management.

 

The 2023 Gram 17 models are around so the 2022 model is being discounted. It's worth watching out in case some sellers apply some even bigger discounts to shift the last of the old stock. 32GB and the anti=glare coating are useful upgrades. I see that Costco in UK is offering the 32GB 2022 Gram 17 for £1080 - about 40% off last year's price and 10% lower than my Amazon Warehouse deal last year.

[Steerpike]

@John RatseyHow's the battery on your 2021 LG gram? I run mine 95% of the time plugged in, so the internal battery doesn't get much use / many cycles. I am using the 'battery saver' mode that doesn't charge it above 80%.  I happened to notice in Nirsoft's BatteryInfoView is showing that the 'Full Charged Capacity' is only 73,740 mWh, while the 'Designed Capacity' is 80,000 mWh (92.2% 'health').  Charge cycles - 70. 

 

 

Unlike my old Samsung NP930, this machine doesn't seem to have a 'battery conditioning' setting - which simply ran the battery all the way down to zero, as I recall.  Do you think it would do any good to try a full discharge cycle, or two? Turn off sleep / hibernate settings, and just let it run down  ... ? 

 

[extremecarver]

Well According to BatteryHistoryView my battery sits at 244 cycles and 69kmWh fully charged capacity after 2 years usage. That doesn't look like it can keep 80% to 500 cycles. But hard to assess. When it was new it hit 78Wh (80Wh only a few days)

[John Ratsey]

On 3/29/2023 at 8:30 PM, Steerpike said:

@John RatseyHow's the battery on your 2021 LG gram? I run mine 95% of the time plugged in, so the internal battery doesn't get much use / many cycles. I am using the 'battery saver' mode that doesn't charge it above 80%.

 

Unlike my old Samsung NP930, this machine doesn't seem to have a 'battery conditioning' setting - which simply ran the battery all the way down to zero, as I recall.  Do you think it would do any good to try a full discharge cycle, or two? Turn off sleep / hibernate settings, and just let it run down  ... ? 

 

Currently, the reported fully charged battery capacity in my 2021 is reported as 73190mWh after 35 charge cycles. This is slightly better than the reported 72190mWh when I checked last April. I would, however, note that (i) I bought the computer second hand in January 2022 and (ii) it's not had significant use since August 2022 when I commissioned the newer Gram 17 (which reports 1 charge cycle (!) and still 80,000mWh capacity. I don't know if the 2021 Gram 17 lost capacity during the months it was used by its first owner or if the battery never had the advertised capacity (I've had plenty of those over the years).

 

It may be worthwhile disabling the battery saver so your Gram 17 charges to 100%, then running it down (you'll have to boot into the BIOS screen when Windows automatically hibernates due to low battery) then fully charging to 100% again.

[Steerpike]

Well that was interesting ... I disabled battery saver, and did a couple of charge / discharge cycles, and now ... my battery capacity has dropped further!  I'm now at only 71,250 mWh 89%), compared to 73,740 mWh 92.2%) a few days ago! 2 cycles have been added to my count, so I'm now at 72. Maybe I'll do a couple more cycles and see what happens ... 

 

ETA - I took a peek at my Samsung NP950XDB, it is showing a capacity of 67,936 mWh, representing 101.4% capacity!  It has only 13 cycles. 

 

I also took a look at old logs from BIV on the LG; looks like I was seeing 78,000 mWh when it was brand new in April 2022, and 78,920 mWh in June 2022, 76,500 mWh in July 2022, 78,250 mWh late July, 74,930 mWh in August ... 77,670 mWh later in August, then some 79,020 mWh readings in late August! 

 

I implemented the battery saver feature in September 2022, so that makes it harder to track max capacity. I'll run with battery saver off for a while, give it a few 'full cycles', then review the logs again. 

[Steerpike]

On 3/19/2022 at 4:25 AM, John Ratsey said:

...

I've got a Thunderbolt dock connected using one of these magnetic connectors which means that disconnection doesn't cause any port wear.

...

 

On 6/26/2022 at 8:26 PM, Steerpike said:

Thanks for the tip on the magnetic connectors!  I just bought one and it makes life SO MUCH easier - more than I imagined!  The model I got in the US was a 2-pack, but looks identical to yours - Amazon.com: USB C Magnetic Adapter, (2 Pack) Magnetic USB C Adapter, 24Pins USB3.1 10Gbps Data Transfer 4K 60Hz Video PD 100w Charge Compatible with MacBook Pro/Air USB-C Laptop : Electronics .  

...

A follow-up / word of caution about those magnetic connectors. I bought 6 of them, and love them, and use them every day multiple times (I have to run on battery for much of the day, so rather than use the built-in battery, I use external batteries (40,000 mAh / 148 Wh type) so I'm constantly attaching / detaching batteries to the laptop and then to the chargers.  

 

They are quite delicate, and two of them have broken already.  The central 'column' of the pin array is not very substantial, and has collapsed in two of them. I must admit, when I first started using them I was quite cavalier about disconnecting them (pulling them off without a thought) but now, I very carefully pull them off cleanly and attach them cleanly.  I also had an issue where a paperclip was drawn to the magnet, and may have applied force to the pin-area. Anyway - I still have 4 and will be very careful with those, and we'll see how they fare. 

 

Here's the two that have failed so far: 

 

 

[John Ratsey]

On 4/7/2023 at 6:57 AM, Steerpike said:

 

A follow-up / word of caution about those magnetic connectors. I bought 6 of them, and love them, and use them every day multiple times (I have to run on battery for much of the day, so rather than use the built-in battery, I use external batteries (40,000 mAh / 148 Wh type) so I'm constantly attaching / detaching batteries to the laptop and then to the chargers.

I've had no problem with my connectors but they've had much less use than yours. I partly see them as a safety device to protect the port and computer should the cable get snagged while they also mean that there's much less wear on the port where USB-C looks more fragile than the older connectors (I use wireless charging for my phone for the same reason).

[extremecarver]

I never had a USB-C actually failing on me if not for water damage. The problem (on phones much more) is rather that you get some dirt and it adds ups. A sim card remover is for me the best way to clean USB-C ports. With smartphones this is much more problematic because the phone is in your pocket and there is often dirt too. E.g. worst tissue paper bits. With a laptop hard to get dirt inside to problematic amounts.

 

Oh yeah because of the substantial warming up from wireless vs wired charging I would never go for wireless instead. Ruins your battery faster. I guess that's why my LG gram will not make it to 500 full cycles on 80% remaining - because in summer I spent usually in Cyprus and use the laptop at around 30-35° on battery. That likely stresses much more than a nice 20-22°. 

With the actually pretty strong heat buildup on charging on the Gram I would guess using it at 6-12° ambient temperature is best for battery. I guess it goes around 10° above while charging and 15-22° is the optimal battery temp while charging.

[RS4]

LG update centre has installed a new program: "Sync On Mobile".  Any opinions? This program first shipped with 2023 Gram and now they have pushed to older Grams via LG update centre.

[John Ratsey]

10 hours ago, RS4 said:

LG update centre has installed a new program: "Sync On Mobile".  Any opinions? This program first shipped with 2023 Gram and now they have pushed to older Grams via LG update centre.

That could be useful. At the moment I connect my phone and computer via a USB-C cable to copy any photos I've taken. More details are available here.

 

 

[RS4]

I have uninstalled the "sync on mobile" software, there was no drag and drop feature. I use Airdroid and it is a much better way of sharing files between the laptop and phone.

 

Also had to mark an exclusion in the LG update centre as it kept notifying to install after the uninstallation. 

[Steerpike]

On 6/15/2023 at 4:51 PM, RS4 said:

I have uninstalled the "sync on mobile" software, there was no drag and drop feature. I use Airdroid and it is a much better way of sharing files between the laptop and phone.

 

Also had to mark an exclusion in the LG update centre as it kept notifying to install after the uninstallation. 

I've tried and abandoned just about every 'photo sync' 'tool' ever offered (over the past 20+ years!) because they all seem hell-bent on modifying some aspect of metadata on the photos - like changing the file date, or they force you to save photos in the 'user' space, amongst other things. I still use a USB cable, then use two 'file manager' (windows explorer) sessions to copy and paste images from one to the other. 

 

I am now additionally using Google Photos, which makes photos taken on my android phone immediately available for viewing on my laptop. But once a month I still plug the old sucker in and do a manual copy! 

[RS4]

3 hours ago, Steerpike said:

I've tried and abandoned just about every 'photo sync' 'tool' ever offered (over the past 20+ years!) because they all seem hell-bent on modifying some aspect of metadata on the photos - like changing the file date, or they force you to save photos in the 'user' space, amongst other things. I still use a USB cable, then use two 'file manager' (windows explorer) sessions to copy and paste images from one to the other. 

 

I am now additionally using Google Photos, which makes photos taken on my android phone immediately available for viewing on my laptop. But once a month I still plug the old sucker in and do a manual copy! 

 

Yes, USB cable is the best option. I do not like syncing things, only drag and drop items occasionally.

[John Ratsey]

22 hours ago, Steerpike said:

I still use a USB cable, then use two 'file manager' (windows explorer) sessions to copy and paste images from one to the other.

I've been using Total Commander as my file manager for over 20 years. Highly recommended. That said, as the photo folder on my phone fills up, it becomes slower and slower to list the files so that I can copy the recent photos. I would be interested in software that can avoid this problem provided it doesn't mess up the files or their metadata.

[Steerpike]

On 6/22/2023 at 1:44 PM, John Ratsey said:

I've been using Total Commander as my file manager for over 20 years. Highly recommended. That said, as the photo folder on my phone fills up, it becomes slower and slower to list the files so that I can copy the recent photos. I would be interested in software that can avoid this problem provided it doesn't mess up the files or their metadata.

FWIW, I don't think this is an issue with Total Commander; in my case, File Manager takes forever and a day to 'enumerate' the source folder. It always defaults to icon view, which makes matters worse, but I switch it to 'details' view as quickly as I can, but even then it is very slow to populate.