Raptor Lake HX Mobile Thread

[1610ftw]

10 hours ago, win32asmguy said:

 

They probably want to keep the performance jump just enough to entice upgrades and leave room on the table for future products to look better. If 5090 mobile architecture ends up not much more efficient they can just add more TDP to keep the performance jump. I think this is why the so heavily push 4k panels because with QHD / FHD the same GPU can remain relevant for much longer.

 

8 hours ago, Papusan said:

You think they will make 4090 with an higher TGP? I don't think so. Current flagship the 3080Ti share same 175 Watt TGP as the 3080 mobile graphics. Why would they do it different for 40xx series laptop graphics? 

 

4090 is a new performance class - if they charge accordingly the performance jump will have to be higher both compared to the previous generation and to what they call the 4080. Charging 50% more for a card with a less than 10% increase in performance could result in disappointing sales.

 

But then they are mostly about making money and not about making sense so my hope is that at least when AMD is coming too close they will have a plan. If AMD really is looking to rival a desktop 3090 with their next mobile offering they would overtake the 4090 with 175W and Nvidia will look rather foolish with that "4090".

 

So I am hoping that both the new name and AMD will make this 4090 better than it currently looks and in the long run hopefully AMD will keep Nvidia on their feet unlike in the past where AMD offerings have been lacking in high end laptops.

[ssj92]

13980HX may be a thing. 

 

Intel Core i9-13980HX specifications leak online - NotebookCheck.net News 

 

 

[Etern4l]

Guys, when is mobile Raptor Lake launching exactly? I need to buy a lightweight laptop. Can grab something like an Inspiron with i7-1255U right now, but no huge rush so could wait a little for the updated model. Not sure how quickly will Dell update their lower-end models, but presumably they won't be waiting around, as this probably sells in decent volumes.

[ssj92]

48 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

Guys, when is mobile Raptor Lake launching exactly? I need to buy a lightweight laptop. Can grab something like an Inspiron with i7-1255U right now, but no huge rush so could wait a little for the updated model. Not sure how quickly will Dell update their lower-end models, but presumably they won't be waiting around, as this probably sells in decent volumes.

I bought my Alienware X14 on black friday knowing very well that Raptor Lake laptops should be out by Q1 2023. Main reasoning was...the laptop was $600 off. Even when Raptor Lake comes out it would probably be a decent amount more expensive so I said why not. 

 

I guess at this point in time though, we are very close to CES 2023 so it might be worth waiting a few more weeks to see what is coming out. Unless you are saving a significant amount or NEED the laptop ASAP for work or something, I would wait. 

[Etern4l]

11 hours ago, ssj92 said:

I bought my Alienware X14 on black friday knowing very well that Raptor Lake laptops should be out by Q1 2023. Main reasoning was...the laptop was $600 off. Even when Raptor Lake comes out it would probably be a decent amount more expensive so I said why not. 

 

I guess at this point in time though, we are very close to CES 2023 so it might be worth waiting a few more weeks to see what is coming out. Unless you are saving a significant amount or NEED the laptop ASAP for work or something, I would wait. 

 

Thanks, makes sense. The i7-1255U was announced on Jan 4 2021. Normally I wouldn't bother waiting in this case, but because Raptor Lake is so awesome, it would kind of be sad to buy a new Alder Lake device. This is an entry level $1k laptop meant for very light use, and the price delta won't be significant either way, plus the new models might offer further improvements (or they could regress into soldered RAM for instance, which is what worries me a bit - but in this case they will still run old models for a while).

 

 

[ssj92]

Just gonna drop this here:

 

https://wccftech.com/intel-core-i9-13900hx-raptor-lake-hx-laptop-cpu-faster-than-amd-ryzen-9-7900x-core-i9-12900k/

[Etern4l]

2 hours ago, ssj92 said:

Just gonna drop this here:

 

https://wccftech.com/intel-core-i9-13900hx-raptor-lake-hx-laptop-cpu-faster-than-amd-ryzen-9-7900x-core-i9-12900k/

 

Impressive what can be done in a small form factor, but yet again clearly shows the significant gap between the current laptop and desktop CPU performance: desktop 13th gen CPUs are 20%+ faster, even in the Geekbench baby benchmark lasting like a minute in total (and probably more than that once the inevitable thermal throttling kicks in). Also this is testing stock, whereas desktop CPUs can also be realistically overclocked.

[ssj92]

To be fair those desktop CPUs are pulling 250-300w+ at full power. 
 

I never owner a “hx” cpu but I would assume the highest end model would at least be unlocked

[1610ftw]

15 hours ago, Etern4l said:

 

Impressive what can be done in a small form factor, but yet again clearly shows the significant gap between the current laptop and desktop CPU performance: desktop 13th gen CPUs are 20%+ faster, even in the Geekbench baby benchmark lasting like a minute in total (and probably more than that once the inevitable thermal throttling kicks in). Also this is testing stock, whereas desktop CPUs can also be realistically overclocked.

 

The problem is that in current laptops it is very hard to sustain more than 160W for even a 10 minute Cinebench run. With a golden sample and undervolting the 12900HX could maybe achieve 24500 or 25000 CR23 in such a setting but I doubt that much more would be possible with that amount of power. And of course the CPU will get VERY hot while doing this.

 

Compared to a stock 12900K this is actually pretty impressive:

 

 

But we all know that with proper undervolting / overclocking and even higher end air cooling more performance can be had pretty easily with the 12900K.

 

I can only see that gap widen with the 13900K / 13900HX but if 160W allows 32K+ CR23 that will still be a lot of performance in a small form factor - just don't compare it to desktops.

 

For the 13900HX laptop 18" generation If one would combine a bigger unified vapor chamber heatsink with water cooling like TongFang / Uniwill do it then it would probably be possible to push sustained power to 200W and beyond, probably around 250W at least and 200W with not too much noise. Would be cool to have such a design that can use the added water cooling when stationary and a big unified vapor chamber when travelling.

[Etern4l]

17 hours ago, ssj92 said:

To be fair those desktop CPUs are pulling 250-300w+ at full power. 

 

Exactly, and that's fair enough, since desktop have a cooler half the size of a whole laptop. You can potentially imagine a deep SciFi world where a laptop is just as fast as a desktop, or where everything is in the cloud, but in 2022 we are nowhere near that point, and we have never really been there given the existence of HEDT etc. A laptop involves a degree of compromise on performance on the high end, it's not a "desktop replacement" in that sense. Obviously, it can be a functional desktop replacement for many users, if it does all they need a computer to do for them.

[1610ftw]

2 hours ago, Etern4l said:

 

Exactly, and that's fair enough, since desktop have a cooler half the size of a whole laptop. You can potentially imagine a deep SciFi world where a laptop is just as fast as a desktop, or where everything is in the cloud, but in 2022 we are nowhere near that point, and we have never really been there given the existence of HEDT etc. A laptop involves a degree of compromise on performance on the high end, it's not a "desktop replacement" in that sense. Obviously, it can be a functional desktop replacement for many users, if it does all they need a computer to do for them.

 

DTR means desktop replacement, just not replacement for the very best desktops out there, that is an important distinction.

At least for the same GPU and CPU and with both systems air cooled it used to be relatively close for a while like for example with the 9900K and GTX1080 or the 10900K and RTX2080 Super.

 

Not so much any more as CPUs are not even the main issue these days as GPUs are where the differences grow to ridiculous proportions even without overclocking.

Nvidia has crippled laptop GPUs so much while steadily increasing TDP of their higher end desktop cards that with the 40x cards we may be talking about a ca. 2:1 performance ratio between high end desktop and laptop GPUs which is ridiculous.

[Papusan]

On 12/15/2022 at 12:43 AM, 1610ftw said:

 

The TGP of that "4090" is too low compared to the "4080" so I would assume that this is not the last word on TGP. They will want to at least go up to something like 225 or 250W including boost. Bigger DTRs and the water cooled TongFang units should not have too many problems with this. They certainly do not have any issues right now with 175W where temps barely go beyond 65°C in the better units.

 

On 12/15/2022 at 4:55 AM, Papusan said:

You think they will make 4090 with an higher TGP? I don't think so. Current flagship the 3080Ti share same 175 Watt TGP as the 3080 mobile graphics. Why would they do it different for 40xx series laptop graphics? 

On 12/15/2022 at 1:19 PM, 1610ftw said:

4090 is a new performance class - if they charge accordingly the performance jump will have to be higher both compared to the previous generation and to what they call the 4080. Charging 50% more for a card with a less than 10% increase in performance could result in disappointing sales.

 

https://videocardz.com/newz/alleged-nvidia-geforce-rtx-40-laptop-gpu-clock-and-tgp-specs-emerge

 

Rumors, but still very ugly. Castrated TGP and use of the chaeaper castrated die (AD103 vs AD102) for premium. On top less and slower rated vram. Yep, nvidia spreading their love to the laptop gamers. Want one of the new coming gamingbooks, bro @Mr. Fox @Ashtrix? Remember the new tempting xx90 moniker. 

 

Latest rumors say... NVIDIA's Ada GeForce RTX 40 series laptop GPUs will offer up to a 30% performance improvement over their predecessors while adding the latest features such as DLSS3 and enhanced ray tracing performance. Up to 30% performance uplift... Is this meant as a joke? 

[Mr. Fox]

Sorry, I have no interest in buying an overpriced eunuch turdbook. Mobile computing in general no longer interests me, and I hate wasting my money on half-assed garbage. And, that's what all of them are.

[Papusan]

1 hour ago, Mr. Fox said:

Sorry, I have no interest in buying an overpriced eunuch turdbook. Mobile computing in general no longer interests me, and I hate wasting my money on half-assed garbage. And, that's what all of them are.

But you'll get latest features such as DLSS3 and enhanced ray tracing performance in a laptop. Isn't that a must have? You don't have this in older models. Not even for real desktop cards. 

[Mr. Fox]

3 minutes ago, Papusan said:

But you'll get latest features such as DLSS3 and enhanced ray tracing performance in a laptop. Isn't that a must have? You don't have this in older models. Not even for real desktop cards. 

 

[KING19]

1 hour ago, Papusan said:

But you'll get latest features such as DLSS3 and enhanced ray tracing performance in a laptop. Isn't that a must have? You don't have this in older models. Not even for real desktop cards. 

 

Ray tracing is still worthless. Most of times its not worth the FPS drops even with DLSS/FSR

 

Also its dumb that DLSS 3 is only supported by the 40 RTX Series. At this point FSR might be the DLSS killer especially with 3.0 and its supported by all modern NVIDIA and AMD GPUs because its software based.

[Papusan]

1 hour ago, KING19 said:

Ray tracing is still worthless. Most of times its not worth the FPS drops even with DLSS/FSR

 

Also its dumb that DLSS 3 is only supported by the 40 RTX Series.

Of course they will only support 4xxx series cards. They need to offer something brand new so you feel you got something back from the expensive upgrade. Will be fun seeing DLSS 5 only for 5xxx series cards even if the most powerful 4000 series cards as etc 4090 easly will run it at good FPS🙂 This is Greed, bro King........  Try taste on the word. Do you like the awful taste? 

 

[Mr. Fox]

18 hours ago, Papusan said:

Of course they will only support 4xxx series cards. They need to offer something brand new so you feel you got something back from the expensive upgrade. Will be fun seeing DLSS 5 only for 5xxx series cards even if the most powerful 4000 series cards as etc 4090 easly will run it at good FPS🙂 This is Greed, bro King........  Try taste on the word. Do you like the awful taste? 

 

The whole idea is to force the purchase of new hardware and forcing adoption of a trashy crap operating system. It has nothing to do with compatibility or capacity with hardware and everything to do with greed and making computer technology a totalitarian digital ecosystem. The world's technology leaders are filthy scumbags. I wish for tragedy, destruction and financial ruin to visit all of them.

[1610ftw]

On 12/22/2022 at 7:58 PM, Mr. Fox said:

The whole idea is to force the purchase of new hardware and forcing adoption of a trashy crap operating system. It has nothing to do with compatibility or capacity with hardware and everything to do with greed and making computer technology a totalitarian digital ecosystem. The world's technology leaders are filthy scumbags. I wish for tragedy, destruction and financial ruin to visit all of them.

 

Strong words but indeed the direction that things are going in is very wrong. Would be nice if the whole right to repair movement would also extend to a fight for the right to replace CPU or GPU on a chip basis - socketed CPUs and GPUs would also relieve us of the horrible issues with MXM cards - let's just swap the chip itself then. Maybe not all laptops but let's say laptops that cost more than 999$ list price - something that forces companies to do the right thing with their money makers.

 

I can guarantee you that there would be a lot of pissing and moaning how it is impossible, the customers do not want it etc. etc. and after a very short while we would get back socketed laptops and they would even be better than before and maybe 2 or 3mm thicker which is not a bad thing anyway.

[1610ftw]

data regarding the next BGA generation, still to be confirmed:

 

https://www.notebookcheck.com/Intel-Core-i9-13950HX-Prozessor-Benchmarks-und-Specs.677207.0.html

 

[1610ftw]

Impressive benchmarks from now MSI and Asus for the 13980HX:

 

https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/search?utf8=✓&q=i9-13980HX

 

 

[ssj92]

~4% away in Single Core

~15% away in Multi Core 

 

vs stock 13900K Geekbench Result. 

 

Not bad, will be interesting to see final product. 

 

Intel Core i9-13900K Benchmarks - Geekbench Browser

 

 

BTW: 4090 > 3090:

 

 

However, a little birdy as told me the highest end 4090 can beat 3090Ti 

[1610ftw]

11 hours ago, ssj92 said:

~4% away in Single Core

~15% away in Multi Core 

 

vs stock 13900K Geekbench Result. 

 

Not bad, will be interesting to see final product. 

 

Intel Core i9-13900K Benchmarks - Geekbench Browser

 

 

BTW: 4090 > 3090:

 

 

However, a little birdy as told me the highest end 4090 can beat 3090Ti 

 

Probably because they upped the power limit to 200W and maybe more? That should helped as the die is from a card that will go to 300W and beyond.

 

With proper cooling and a shunt mod this should easily go even higher and my money would be on one of the vapor chamber Asus units to give great performance and I also expect great things from the AW18 if they actually make it a vapor chamber design.

Too bad that both the Asus and the Alienware will probably have that typical gaming look which I do not particularly like.

 

So let's see if it can crack a 22K Time Spy score - I highly doubt it as that would be almost 30% higher than the first rumors of its performance! 

 

Did you see the notebook? Looks like a Clevo X370 to me - obviously another all BGA unit which saddens me.

[ssj92]

Jarrod'sTech on Twitter: "Not bad, for a laptop https://t.co/uFM1tZKww4" / Twitter

 

I'm a bit disappointed he hit us with the "it's an engineering sample so I didn't test power consumption, temps, boost time, etc"

 

True difference between a enthusiast and one who isn't. 

 

I would have tested all that. We know by now that the "engineering sample" in that system is likely a QS "qualification sample" which is 99% representative of real world performance. If it was some ES from early stages I'd understand. 

 

Can't wait to put these level of systems to their paces myself 😄 

[Etern4l]

Yeah, I have found his reviews lacking in depth before.