Steerpike

I'm on W11.  So far, all my issues have been with 'lid close' actions. If I just leave it alone, it goes dark and quiet quite normally, and wakes fine.  But since I first had this issue, I've been intentionally 'lid-closing' it, several times a day, and most times it behaves quite normally - goes silent, cold, no sign of life. It's been about 3 days now since the last issue. 

For reference, this Samsung / W11 is almost plain-vanilla W11 (I'm kinda using it as a test case); all I've done is enabled hibernate, which is still a 'supported' feature (and I will probably revert to using hibernate before any lid close in the future, once I'm done testing).  But on my LG Gram 17 (2021, also W11), I performed various registry hacks to recover 'S3 sleep'.  With both laptops, I have never heard the fan continue once in 'sleep'.

Regarding "My current frustration is with my 2022 Gram 17 (with Windows 11) which, when put to sleep, keeps running the fan as if it isn't sleeping at all. " I'd take a look at event viewer / system, and look for events around the time in question.  'kernel-power' source entries are the most relevant (eg, "The system is entering modern standby, reason: Lid"), and then look at what was happening AFTER That message.  There's also one that says "Connectivity state in standby: Connected...". It's connected standby that can cause some issues, I believe. Note this 'connected standby' stuff is not unique to W11. 

I've experienced at least 3 situations now where the laptop will go to sleep, and then be impossible (or difficult) to 'wake' or startup. Basically, the laptop seems 'dead' - pressing power has no effect.  A few days ago, I did a long, long press on power (30 seconds?) and finally got it to startup, and it seemed to be in some kind of 'Out Of Box' startup mode, asking for preferences, but after just a few such questions, things seemed to be back to normal - my files and apps where there.  Today I experienced a similar thing, and paid more attention. This time, I did several long-presses on power (but only about 10 seconds), and a couple of lid close/opens. Somewhat randomly, the second lid close/open triggered a startup situation (Samsung logo, etc). Previous context lost (ie, a clean startup, not from standby/hibernate).  

This is a pretty plain-vanilla windows 11 setup; the only thing I've done is enabled hibernate so I can truly put the guy to 'sleep' for long periods without using battery. Even though I've enabled and use hibernate from time to time, I'm pretty sure these issues have all arisen from letting the laptop enter 'modern standby'. 

So far, I don't have enough info to really post much of interest, but I wanted to get a thread going in case others have experienced this.  The event viewer is not very forthcoming; it shows that the 'previous shutdown was unexpected', but not much else. 

Edit To Add: 

Had another event this evening. Starting to see a pattern. Typically, since I bought the laptop, I have left it alone in regards to any 'power' actions, just leaving it with the lid open and letting it sleep / wake as it feels necessary, and there haven't been any issues.  But this past week, I'm on vacation and have been constantly closing the lid to 'put the laptop away' physically.  This evening, I closed the lid around 6:30pm, and opened the lid at 7:50pm, but it would not start. Had to do a 30+ second long press on power, at which point it had clearly done a 'clean start' (not wake). Event log shows 'previous shutdown not expected' or similar.  I then closed the lid at 8:03pm, re-opened at 9:10pm, and this time things were 'as expected' (sort of) - screen was already lit, and ready for my PIN. Event log shows 'entering modern standby'/reason: Lid, and 'exiting modern standby'/reason: lid.  I'm going to intentionally do some lid-closures instead of hibernating to see if I can see a pattern. 

10 hours ago, John Ratsey said:

Mine is the Samsung 45W phone charger https://www.amazon.co.uk/Samsung-Official-Super-Charger-Cable-Black/dp/B09PWHYSH8 . However, I'm not sure if it's much smaller than your 65W charger (the length of my Samsung 65W PSU is 2 1/4"). I've also got this very compact Juice charger https://www.amazon.co.uk/Juice-EVERYTHING-charging-Smartphones-Technology-Black/dp/B092DZS3XR which claims to be 65W (but is maximum 45W from the USB-C port) and usefully has a USB-A port for charging other devices. I've had no problem with mine but see that some people have had failures. I carry a 25W USB-C charger in the bag for emergencies.

Website gives package dimensions but not product dimensions!  My Samsung 65W charger is 2" x 1 7/8" x 1 1/8" or 50mm x 48mm x 28mm, which sounds smaller than yours!  Amazing. 

6 hours ago, John Ratsey said:

...

 

BTW, when I'm travelling I normally take a 45W charger as it's smaller than my Samsung 65W charger. The computer will give a warning when the charger is plugged in but then gets on with the job. The lower rating means that it can't charge the battery at the maximum possible rate when the computer is running. I've even used a 25W charger.

What 45W charger did you buy?  I'm traveling in 10 days for 2 weeks (first proper trip since pre-2020!), part of the justification for buying the Samsung.  I presume a 45W charger will be even smaller than the 65W guy, which is getting ridiculous! They're going to start falling through the holes in my bags! 

10 hours ago, John Ratsey said:

Thanks for this useful research. There's clearly some variation in the implementation of the USB PD standards.  I briefly wondered if not all the chargers support 20V but I checked my Samsung 65W USB-C  PSU and 20V is listed.

Can you elaborate on what you mean? If you look on the back of your Samsung laptop (the new one, that is USB-C PD chargeable) it says "Input: 20V 3.25A (65W)" (at least, mine does!), so that would make it somewhat 'required' that the PSU would support 20V. 

I presume you've found yourself using your Samsung charger with your LG laptop, and your LG charger with your Samsung laptop?  The 'standardization' of PSUs was one of the biggest incentives to go with these new laptops.

The new Samsung charger that came with my laptop is ridiculously small!  And it's 65W, which means it's capable of supplying my LG Gram 17 - so that's going to be the one I travel with, I suspect. 

Interestingly, while the LG Gram 17 PSU/charger mentions USB-C PD, the Samsung does not!  These are the two chargers:

Note the LG says: "Output: 20.0V / 3.25A, MAX 65.0W (USB-PD) 5.0V / 3.0A 15.0W or 9.0V / 3.0A 27.0W or 15.0V / 3.0A 45.0 W"

and the Samsung says: "Output: (PDO) 5.0V / 3.0A or 9.0V / 3.0A or 15.0V / 3.0A or 20.0V / 3.25A (PPS) 4.0-20.0V / 3.25A"

(not sure what PDO and PPS mean; it does have the graphic, lower right, saying 'Certified USB Fast Charger 65W).

This article confirms that PPS is a part of the USB-PD specification. "The second specification—PD 3.0—includes programmable power supply (PPS), a feature that allows the USB Type-C charger’s output voltage to be adjusted in increments as small as 20 mV over voltages ranging from 3.3 to 21V". The article also tells us that 'PDO' is 'power delivery object' and relates to the communications between the PSU and device. 

I took a picture of my three USB-C PD PSU / Chargers just for grins ...

 All three are 65W; the third is an 'Anker' brand. The Samsung is the thinnest, the Anker is the shortest. This is how small the Samsung is ...

Not bad for a charger than can handle a laptop and a phone!  By the way - they do get very hot when delivering the 3.25 A! 

I received the item linked above - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07SJ3GQTD?smid=A2OKSEIX7OEK0B&ref_=chk_typ_imgToDp&th=1 for use with my 2014 Samsung NP940X5J, which has a proprietary 19V / 2.37A 45W power supply with a 3.0 x 1.1mm tip.  The good news is, the adapter works with my LG Gram 65W USB-C PD power supply (that came with my LG Gram 17). But it does not work with my Anker 65W USB-C PD power supply, which works fine with the LG Gram laptop, and charges my Samsung S10+ phone.  And it does not work with my Samsung 65W USB-C PD power supply (that shipped with my new Samsung NP950XDB).  When I plug the adapter+Anker PSU or Samsung PSU into the old Samsung laptop, the battery status briefly changes to show a charger, then within a second, changes back to indicating battery. So it 'almost' works, but not quite!  

Strangely, the adapter also works with my two external 100W USB-C PD 20Ah battery packs from BaseUS - so the odd items out are the Anker PSU and the Samsung PSU!  But that Anker PSU and that Samsung PSU work fine with the two battery packs, and with my new Samsung NP950XDB laptop. 

Device                  LG Gram     Samsung     BaseUS          Old Samsung
                        USB-C PD    USB-C PD    USB-CD PD       Laptop
                        Laptop      Laptop      Battery pack    (with Adapter)
Charger		
LG Gram USB-C PD        Works       Works       Works           Works
Samsung USB-C PD        Works       Works       Works           Fails
Anker USB-C PD          Works       Works       Works           Fails
BaseUS USB-C PD Battery Works       Works       n/a             Works

The device was very cheap. I may just try buying another brand from Amazon and see how that works.  But at least I can charge the laptop using my external battery packs, and one of the wall chargers, so I have a functioning solution for now. 

2 hours ago, John Ratsey said:

I've figured that out: Click on the 3 dots at the top right of a post and one of the options is "Share". Select that and then copy the link.

Duh!  I saw that but only glanced quickly. I thought it was only intended to let me 'share' on Farcebook, Twatter, etc - which I avoid like the plague! 

I've ordered a 3.0 x 1.1 mm 'USB-C PD' adapter, and I'll see if I can charge my old Samsung NP940X5j with it (from my new USB-C PD chargers)!  The official spec for the old Samsung is 19V, but I suspect / hope that 20V won't cause it too much concern. Actually, looking at the order page again, I see that it shows '19V' on it - 

Amazon.com: Cablecc USB 3.1 Type C USB-C to DC 20V 3.0x1.1mm Adapter PD Emulator Trigger 90 Degree Angled : Electronics

I recently invested in a few extra USB-C PD chargers, and two USB-C PD battery packs. The battery pack is great - it tells you the Voltage, current, and 'time remaining' while charging the laptop, so I can get info that Battery Info View can't give me (once charged). 

This is fascinating!  I have a few old Samsung Laptops I'd like to 'adapt' to my new USB-C chargers, and especially with my new USB-C battery power banks. 

I couldn't figure out how this could possibly work, since USB-C power delivery is a 'negotiated' system, with the source starting out at 5V, then negotiating all the way up to 20V; but then one of the comments in that Lenovo Laptop youtube video says "Basically these cables have PD decoy chip hidden in one of the connectors which asks the PD charger for a set voltage.
So instead of having smart communication between the charger and the charged device as you normally do with PD devices, here you will get 20V at the end of the cable the instant you connect it to the PD charger."

So now I need to see if someone is making these cables for laptops other than Lenovo! Can you tell us where you got the Dell variant of this cable from?

FYI, I posted a bunch of info about USB-C PD in another thread in this 'Accessories' area. I'm not sure how to link to a specific post, so here's the 'meat' of the post for reference: 

From that post: 

====================================

1. 'Type-C only' - The USB Type-C specification allows for up to 15 Watts of power to be transferred from DFP to UFP on the VBUS and Ground signals.  This 15 Watts of power can only be transmitted at 5 Volts when a “Type-C Only” solution is used. 
2. 'Type-C PD' - When you add the USB Power Delivery specification to a “Type-C Only” system, you create a “Type-C PD” system and can raise the VBUS voltage above 5 Volts to a maximum of 20 Volts and raise the VBUS current to a maximum of 5 Amps.

But I think this latter category - Type-C PD - has two sub-categories - with or without the EMCA. If the cable doesn't have an EMCA chip, it is limited to 3A (but can still go up to 20 V, and thus, has a max power of 20x3=60W). If you add the EMCA, you can now go to 5A, which means the max power is 20x5=100W.

This is confirmed in this article: WHAT THE TECH? USB-C AND POWER DELIVERY EXPLAINED – Goal Zero - "Power Delivery starts at the 5V setting and is configurable up to 20V. Using a standard USB-C cable, it can handle up to 60W, and will go up to 100W using a designated EMCA cable."

====================================

I'm now going to look for those cables for my Samsung and possibly even Dell laptops ....

Update - promising Amazon link - Amazon.com: Cablecc USB 3.1 Type C USB-C to DC 4.5x3.0mm Adapter PD Emulator Trigger 90 Degree Angled : Electronics - have multiple barrel sizes. Need to figure out the size of my old Samsung laptop ...

I see that!  I could swear it wasn't there yesterday!  Maybe the settings app got updated in the massive update yesterday (but I doubt it - I'm probably just blind!). 

Do you have any observations about the fan on yours, compared to the LG? 

Today, I'm running with it plugged in and so far, it's been silent.  I wonder if the battery generates heat when charging, causing the fan to run?  It's plugged in now, but fully charged, so any power coming from the 'wall' is going straight to the motherboard, whereas yesterday, the battery was discharged so a good deal of power from the wall was going into the battery and it makes some sense that that could have caused heating, and required fan activity (task manager suggested absolutely no unusual activity to warrant fan activity). 

Another observation - so far, this Samsung device consumes a good deal less power than the LG. Without any tweaking on the Samsung, I'm seeing less power draw in Battery Info View compared to the LG, and it seems like I can run for a solid day without charging, which is more than I can say for the LG. 

I bought the Samsung Galaxy Pro 15.6" version yesterday, as something to explore alongside my LG Gram 17 (2021). Got it from Costco online for about $850 plus tax. Lovely blue case. 

It's the NP950XDB model - has Intel i7-1165-G7, 16 Gig Ram, 1TB SSD, FHD (1920x1080) display. Weighs 2.31 lbs.  (my LG Gram 17 has the i7-1195-G7 CPU). 

Basically, lots to really like! The screen is glossy but not as glossy as the LG Gram. It clearly has some form of coating on it, but it's not 'matt' by any means. The keyboard is slightly nicer than the LG Gram, though I can't really put my finger on why (it only has 3 columns of numeric keypad, compared to 4 on the LG, and I like this layout better).  The trackpad is INFINITELY better!  I have so many issues with the LG trackpad, I've basically had to disable all but the most basic of gestures. And my right palm constantly lands on it, sending the cursor haywire (though luckily not 'clicking' anything). The LG Gram trackpad is simply too big!  I love the weight of this laptop - unbelievably light. 

But my biggest gripe after 2 days is ... the fan!   The first day, I ran it exclusively on battery to give the battery a full charge/discharge cycle. Didn't hear the fan at all (though I was in a noisier room than today).  But today, I plugged it in to charge, and the fan was going berserk.  I looked at task manager, absolutely no tasks doing anything. I went to control panel / power, advanced, and set 'max processor state' to 50% to try to take a sledgehammer to the problem, but the fan was still going berserk!  I noticed that windows update was running in the background (fair enough, I've only had it a day so it's doing its thing catching up) but absolutely no CPU usage indicated. I've just restarted after the windows, and it seems fairly quiet but not silent, and it's somewhat 'random' - kicks in and out without obvious reason. 

I can't find anywhere in the Samsung settings where I can choose between 'performance' and 'noise', or whatever. 

I'll admit to being overly sensitive to fan noise, especially variable fan noise (I can tune out a 'steady' fan to some extent). I'll have to return it if I can't find a remedy soon. 

Edit to add - one difference I noticed between the LG GRam 17 and the Samsung NP950XDB, is the battery voltage, as revealed through Battery Info View.  The LG gram has a voltage of 7,531 mV (7.5 Volts).  The Samsung has a voltage of 17,362 mV (17.3 Volts).  I've never really compared two modern laptops before, but that seems to be a big difference in voltage!   They are both similar capacity - the LG Gram has a design capacity of 80 Wh, while the Samsung has a design capacity of 67 Wh. The label on both suggests a 'supply' voltage of 20V (20V / 3.25A / 65W). 
 

I just saw model Samsung NP950XDB-KC5US at Costco online for $900. Seems like a great price! https://www.costco.com/samsung-galaxy-book-pro-15.6"-intel-evo-platform-laptop---11th-gen-intel-core-i7-1165g7---1080p---windows-11---mystic-blue.product.100794355.html

Is your 'Samsung Galaxy Book Pro 13.3' the same thing, but with 13.3" vs 15.6" screen?  I see your model is NP935XDB - which sounds similar. 

I don't have a lot of use for it, having the LG Gram 17 and being very happy with it, but the Samsung is even lighter in weight so I may just pick it up for fun! 

10 hours ago, TwistedAndy said:

Disabling the modern standby (S0) and enabling the classic sleep mode (S3) is pretty tricky, but possible.

 

First of all, you need to disable the S0 standby mode by adding a registry key. After a reboot there will be no sleep option available. That's because Dell decided to disable S3. To resolve this issue, you will need to enable the ACPI S3 Support in the BIOS.

 

Unfortunately, this setting is hidden by default, but you can change it in a similar way as it is shown here. You need to find the "ACPI S3" setting and determine it's offset.

 

Once you turn this feature using a command like "setup_var Setup 0x0E 0x1" (offset will be different in your case), you will see the sleep mode again, there will be S3 states available (powercfg /a), but it wouldn't work properly.

 

I suggest switching the SSD mode from Raid On to AHCI and update drivers. It should help resolving this issue.

It seems like your final conclusion is "but it wouldn't work properly" so - despite the fact you can make all these changes, it seems like it doesn't work - correct? 

3 hours ago, John Ratsey said:

I now have that cosmetically damaged 2022 Gram 17 on my desk. I've yet to see the scratches and it looks to be a normal "open box" return. I wonder if whoever originally bought it assumed that the blotchy blue display while Windows was setting itself up meant the display was defective and put the computer back in the box. It had me worried!

Once Windows setup had finished messing around the display was fine and I reckon that I stumbled on a good deal as it is the 32GB RAM version that I wanted. I had half-expected that the description was wrong and Amazon would deliver a lower spec version.

 

I'm current exploring and testing my new purchase and will start a new thread with my observations.

Just keep in mind, despite all the naysayers to the contrary, that windows 11 plus Explorer Patcher is almost indistinguishable from Windows 10 ! 

16 hours ago, TwistedAndy said:

...

- Noise. I've measured 38±1.5 dBA on the 40cm distance ...

 

- Performance. I get ~18200 after first round and ~14500 CB R23 MT score sustained with 45W CPU package power and slight UV (-0.115V/-0.050V).
 

Can you tell us how you are measuring sound levels? And how are the performance measures being made? And how are you undervolting? 

5 hours ago, John Ratsey said:

Yes, I saw that and can replicate the behaviour. Perhaps it's an HWiNFO bug.

 

In previous times I did a lot of experimenting with the max processor state. This graph is one I prepared 6 years ago:

The percentage labels are the maximum processor state and anything below 50% had no effect. The corresponding speed and power consumption have to be deterermined by looking at the HWiNFO results after a standard process (eg wPrime). It would be interesting to see the corresponding graph for recent CPUs. If trying to minimise overall power consumption one has to balance the reduction in processor power against the the longer time to run the process before the CPU and get back to sleep.

Interesting! The huge drop from 100% down to 99% is, presumably, due to the fact that going from 100->99 ALSO disables turbo mode? 

3 hours ago, John Ratsey said:

I turned off Turbo mode by setting maximum processor state to 99% and reset the HWiNFO sensors. A couple of hours of typical usage hours and the maximum processor temperature is 66C and there are no throttling alerts (this is with the computer on the Cooler Master cooler). I'm wondering if those those throttling alerts are linked to the fan trip point temperatures.

If you can keep everything below 70C then perhaps everything is happy. What would happen if the Active Trip Point 0 is set to, say, 60C.

 

Performance and esponsiveness seems fine with Turbo disabled. Those bursts of higher speed don't make much difference in overall speed in normal usage (might be noticeable if there's a single-threaded process running) but create the power and heat and spikes which have repercussions.

Did you see my 'edits' to my original post immediately before yours? I am able to trip those two triggers 'on demand', just by locking / unlocking the screen - and I'm currently running with max processer state at 35% as an experiment! 

On 8/20/2022 at 6:26 AM, John Ratsey said:

...

This is what HWiNFO showed soon after doing a sensor reset. I suspect that if there's been too many thermal alerts then the Gram 17 reckons it's time to walk for a while instead of running.

 

I haven't used HWInfo for years, but I just installed it now for grins.  As I mentioned in my other response, I'm currently experimenting with aggressive CPU throttling to see what makes a difference, and what affects battery usage.  I'm currently running with 'max processor state' at 30% (down from 40% earlier!) and my general usage seems unaffected (~40 tabs in Edge, ~40 tabs in Chrome, 5 excel spreadsheets, 1 word doc, Outlook with ~10 emails being read/written, Quicken, Foxit Reader, ~5 notepad sessions ...) (the only thing that was noticeably slower was a complex PDF of a map took a while to scale/repaint). I 'reset' the triggers, as you did, and then walked away from the laptop. I just returned and did a few minor things, and ... those two items you have triggers on are 'Yes' for me too - Core Thermal Throttling and Package / Ring Thermal Throttling.  So it would appear those two items may just get tripped on the slightest provocation. 

Interesting that my Max values are way higher than yours!  FYI, my cpu is i7-1195G7, while yours is i7-1165G7. I finally figured out how to resize the columns to show that, after getting the screenshot. 

EDIT TO ADD - I just sat here looking at my HWInfo figures, after resetting the triggers, and noticed that the two triggered items were 'no'.  I then 'locked' the screen (windows key + L) and unlocked, and ... the two values went to 'yes'. Why, I can't explain but you may try that on your side ... If you see that they are both 'no' for a while, then walk away and let the timer lock your screen (or sleep, or whatever) then unlock, it may be the cause for you too. 

Just did it again - reset triggers; observe 'no'; lock; unlock; values are 'yes'. 

EDIT TO ADD 8/22 - I just did a few more 'reset triggers', and then lock/unlocks. I was able to do 2 quick lock/unlocks without seeing the triggers, but on the third, I saw the two triggers. Note how low all my temperatures are: 

Nothing higher than 63C. So whatever those triggers are, they are certainly sensitive! 

10 hours ago, John Ratsey said:

One annoyance I've been having with my 2021 Gram 17 is that intermittently it slows to a crawl, becomes unresponsive and takes several minutes before it's willing to start running normally. It's reminiscient of the problem I had around 10 years ago with near-full SSDs which basically told the computer to wait while the SSD shuffled files around to create some usable space from the fragments. However, there's loads of empty SSD space and the disc activity is low. I therefore assume that it's a thermal issue. The i7-1165G7 CPU in my Gram 17 is too willing to get close to 100C (perhaps I need to do another repaste) and even when the CPU hasn't got hot there's other thermal throttling. This is what HWiNFO showed soon after doing a sensor reset. I suspect that if there's been too many thermal alerts then the Gram 17 reckons it's time to walk for a while instead of running.

Setting the Gram 17 to Performance Mode (which needs to be done on each start / restart / resume) does improve the temperatures but is tedious as it's not set-and-forget. Therefore three days ago I got a Cooler Master Notepal U2 plus V2 cooler to help improve the cooling. It's just the right size for the Gram 17 but the default fan speed was too noisy for my liking. That problem has been fixed using one of these to reduce the voltage and hence the fan speed although I not very happy with the raised notebook position (and I've squashed down the back leg of the cooler to reduce the keyboard slope).

 

I've therefore revisited the power options. A while back I used a utility (name now forgotten) to add some of the missing items in the advanced power options. Putting the Maximum Processor State down to 99% turns off turbo mode which is more drastic than I want (but sensible when running on battery) but I've found that setting the Maximum Processor Frequency to 4500 MHz does cap the CPU speed to 4500 MHz. This will bring down the maximum CPU core temperature but does not stop the other thermal throttling alerts shown above. I need to do some testing to find out the sensible maximum CPU frequency.

 

If only I could buy the longer heatsink and dual fan unit that LG do make then this would be a much better solution to the thermal problem. The i7 CPU is more than the standard LG thermal solution can handle for more than a few seconds.

May I ask, what are you doing with your laptop when these peaks are occurring?  Hopefully you are doing something that is stressing it somehow! 

I'm having to run all day, every day on battery at the moment so I've been really focusing on reducing power consumption. I don't want to sacrifice screen brightness, so I've been playing around with Processor Power Management / Max processor state, and setting it to 40% !!!!  Surprisingly, I'm not really noticing any difference for casual web page browsing, email handling, casual spreadsheet use. Not sure if it's really helping much with actual battery, but it's the lack of impact on real-world 'use' that is surprising me! 

Also, where are you getting this setting from: "setting the Maximum Processor Frequency to 4500 MHz". I did whatever I needed to do to get 'max processor state' back, but I wasn't aware of a frequency setting.  I'm aware of the setting  "Processor performance boost mode" (to enable this setting, go to regedit and navigate to:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Power\PowerSettings\54533251-82be-4824-96c1-47b60b740d00\be337238-0d82-4146-a960-4f3749d470c7 )

On 7/23/2022 at 12:12 PM, Steerpike said:

They finally got the 2022 LG Gram 17 at my local Costco; saw it yesterday.  The screen is definitely matt!  I've preferred matt forever, but now I've got the 2021 LG Gram 17, I'm getting used to the glossy screen, and I may actually prefer it now.  

 

 

For $1600, you get Intel i7-1260P, 16 GB ram, 512 GB SSD. 

...

 

My buddy just picked up the new 2022 LG Gram 17 at his local Costco (Pleasanton area) for $1200! $400 off sticker. Costco online were not offering this; still $1599.99. EDIT TO ADD - costco online DO now have it for $400 off!

Model was 17z90q-K.aac7u1 - i7-1260P; 16 GB ram; 512 GB SSD.  I haven't been back to my Costco (Concord) to see if they are also reducing it, but that's a great price for the latest model! 

On 7/30/2022 at 12:56 PM, John Ratsey said:

If you can get a complete display including the back and the hinges then I think the swap would be easy: Take off the bottom of the computer; disconnect battery; disconnect display; unscrew hinges; remove old display unit then repeat in reverse to fit the new one.

Oh yeah, that's ok - I've dismantled a laptop to the point of having the display separated at the hinges.  And I've even put it back together and it worked :). But the only way I've seen entire screen sub-assemblies sold is on e-bay as 'break outs' from used machines, which tend to be for older models. All the brand-new screens I've seen advertised are purely the panel, and it looks real tricky getting it installed. I wouldn't dare take a fully-functional $1,000+ laptop and try doing that! 

By the way, the 'base' of the new 2022 model was quite different - no more big round feet at the back, but rather a long single 'rubber bar'.  I didn't pay too much attention but it's certainly a complete re-design. 

22 hours ago, extremecarver said:

... exchange screen I guess.

Just how feasible is replacing a screen on a laptop?  I've replaced motherboards several times, but the screen looks kinda difficult. The frame is all glued (not screwed) and you have to fish the cable through the hinges.  Maybe it's not as hard as I'm thinking. 

On 7/24/2022 at 1:41 PM, John Ratsey said:

inadequate cooling capacity for the CPU when under load

I have yet to hear the fan on mine!  But I guess my usage has simplified to basic browsing, some spreadsheet work, and Outlook / email handling. I haven't needed to transcode a video in a while! Watching YouTube vids or Netflix doesn't seem to tax it. 

Regarding the keyboard backlight - there is still the symbol on the F8 key, so I would think the feature is still there. 

FYI, I just found another thread that I participate in was not being 'followed' by me.  And even a topic/thread I STARTED was not marked as being followed by me!  This is a thread I started well after the discussions above - eg, USB-C Cables - Accessories - NotebookTalk .  (I've marked it as 'following' now). 

So things are still not working as expected. 

EDIT TO ADD: I just checked my profile - the two boxes 'automatically follow new content I post' and 'automatically follow content I reply to' were BOTH not checked!  I definitely checked those previously. Let's see if they persist now. 

(Settings / Account Settings / Notification Settings / Followed Content)

They finally got the 2022 LG Gram 17 at my local Costco; saw it yesterday.  The screen is definitely matt!  I've preferred matt forever, but now I've got the 2021 LG Gram 17, I'm getting used to the glossy screen, and I may actually prefer it now.  

For $1600, you get Intel i7-1260P, 16 GB ram, 512 GB SSD. 

Interestingly, the keyboard markings are quite different!  On my keyboard, the markings are big, and centered. On the 2022 model, they are smaller and oriented top/left. They also arrange the 'regular' and 'shifted' characters side by side, with equal 'weighting'.  Not sure why they would make that change! 

Top - 2021 kbd; bottom - 2022 kbd:

I much prefer the 2021 layout ... not that I guess I really care, as I'm pretty good at touch-typing without looking. But some of the shifted characters I do need to look at. 

8 hours ago, John Ratsey said:

I suspect that the docking station could be allowing for both the power it uses and the power it might supply to other devices which can be plugged into it at the same time so the 65W from the LG PSU could be reduced to 45W or less and that's what it reports to the computer. Each USB port is likely to be rated at 1A (ie 5W) minimum. It's unlikely, but not impossible to have, for example, a portable hard drive plugged into every USB port at the same time or be charging phones or other devices. My docking station came with a 135W brick (literally) so it has loads of spare power.

 

The Gram's own calculation of power needed assumes a combination of loaded CPU, devices plugged into the USB ports and charging the battery. If the power source isn't sufficient then the battery charge rate will be reduced and, in the worst case, the battery will supply power to help keep everything else running. If it's running happily after giving the power warning then there's nothing to worry about. The alternative is to look for a reasonably-priced 100W USB-C PSU.

That's certainly an interesting thought - it's subtracting a pre-defined amount from the source capability as a 'reserve' for other port usage.  I just bought another 65 W USB-C PD power supply (remarkably small and lightweight!), but I don't have any plans to buy a 100W version since size/weight are key considerations. Since they are so cheap, though, I could buy a 100W version and dedicate it to home use.