1610ftw
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Posts posted by 1610ftw
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On 5/14/2025 at 9:17 AM, Developer79 said:
I have finished developing and producing my second CPU fan controller for the P870TM. This makes it possible to control the second 5V fan simultaneously with the 12V main fan! Pictures are shown in the main thread (P870TM). Everything works as I designed it...
Which main thread are you talking about?
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24 minutes ago, Developer79 said:
You've misunderstood something: with its SLI capability, the P870xx initially takes up a lot of space in the case due to its geometry! This is independent of the electrical capabilities. Thanks to my specially developed board, it is now also possible to convert SLI mode to x16 PCIe standard mode, just like any normal PC motherboard. All of this takes place inside the case and also makes it possible to integrate a desktop GPU card into the P870xx!
I do not think that I misunderstood. My point was that in stock condition and as intended the x170 is the better laptop due to a number of factors with one very important one being the demise of SLI. Can the P870 be made better with a lot of effort and specialized knowledge? Clearly it can but that does not negate my point about the X170 being a better overall laptop in stock condition.
As the P870 already has a thread where this is discussed I suggest we take this discussion there as I think that what you are doing with the P870 chassis is pretty cool.
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7 hours ago, SACbomber said:
Yep, standard ten-minute run.
From my experience a setting that works well enough for a ten minute CB R23 will be good enough for stable everyday use. Not that it matters much any more as after all that tweaking I have to activate virtualization again which voids all the nice undervolting I did so it is basically for fun only on my main laptop.
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On 5/17/2025 at 11:04 PM, Maro97 said:
That has some crazy potential with a 980W power supply and water cooling but it has to have a bigger screen and a proper keyboard.
No idea who gave input on this but with a QHD+ 18" and a proper full keyboard with numpad it would be a much more tempting option. I can understand that they may want to have a mousepad in there and possibly it is difficult to place it in front of the keyboard or it would increase height but in my opinion that is not necessary for what is really a mobile desktop.
When you always need a power outlet you should also be able to bring a mouse even if the trackpad cannot be moved down in front of the keyboard.
Oh and I wonder about their battery option - would be nice to at least have some one or two hours of battery life and it would probably help with sales.
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3 hours ago, SACbomber said:
Conditions: -30 mV on all cores and cache, 30x D2D, 30x NGU/SA fabric, +25 mV SA fabric voltage offset
-50 mV on all cores and cache crashed the system immediately. Same with -45 mV. -40 mV crashed a few minutes in. Decided to go back to -30 mV. Funny, because -50 mV on all cores and cache passed every stress test and benchmark previously thrown at it (Linpack Xtreme, OCCT, CB 2024, XTU stress test).
So this is for the ten minute run? That is very impressive!
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19 hours ago, SACbomber said:
Neat. Enjoy your laptop!
Will try CineBench R23 on mine at some point.
Looking forward to hear how much you can get although MSI is notorious for sometimes having rather useless presets for this. I think that in stock condition my Raider 18 HX did not get much above 30000 and later with some tweaking and for single runs I managed to get around 37000 out of it and a bit more than 39000 when pushing it to the max - big difference. With the 285HX and its seemingly limited undervolting potential I do not expect that much of a difference but I would assume that while you will see around 39K at first you will eventually be able to get closer to 41K.
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On 5/16/2025 at 2:15 PM, win32asmguy said:
Yes, same chassis. The cooling system works fine for air-only operation. Probably not as powerful as a vapor chamber but that is a tradeoff that I am fine with for a more professional looking chassis and no gaudy RGB defaults.
I doubt that you are lacking much with a CB R23 score of almost 41000 without undervolting - that is a huge score:
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23 hours ago, win32asmguy said:
Its kind of funny that Uniwill is now producing more modular products than Clevo. I am not interested in their watercooling addons but I do appreciate everything else they are doing engineering-wise.
It is very impressive that for high performance laptops Uniwill / Tongfang are leading the way in several areas:
- modularity
- cooling
- bios customizeability thanks to working with Prema
- Intel and AMD option for the CPU
To be fair to Clevo they are not exceptionally bad with regard to modularity but they have fallen in line with everybody else and they are still not back at the top when it comes to cooling capacity. Luckily the combination of improved cooling over last gen and a CPU that needs less power will give a lot better results but the 330W power supply already shows that they are not that serious about performance.
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1 hour ago, Developer79 said:
That's debatable; all the points you mentioned also apply to the P870xx. The cooling for the P870xx is the best cooling available for a laptop. Take a look at the P870TM thread. My development in the P870xx with RTX30xx MXM does not exceed 60 degrees compared to the X170xx. Apart from that, I have made it possible to integrate the RTX30xx MXM into the P870xx. And yes, my electrical development for the P870xx makes it possible to run desktop cards integrated. With x16 connection. The RTX5070 FE fits very well into the P870xx. My latest development makes it possible to run resolutions in UHD up to 144Hz on the laptop display. Yes, the developers at Clevo could design everything the way I do, but unfortunately there are always obstacles due to the monetary system!!!!
Not sure what the argument is here. Clearly an desktop GPU board would only fit in the P870 but for using it as is the X170 is a better laptop because the added capability of the P870 to use a second GPU is not of much use any more and does not outweigh the keyboard, sound and lesser CPU cooling. In any case what is holding the P870 back the most is by now the CPU unless maybe you manage to put a 5080 in there for 4K gaming where frame rates will be affected the least.
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5 minutes ago, Developer79 said:
From a technical point of view, the P870xx is the best Clevo has ever produced. The X170xx was already a departure from high-end, and although it had some good features, overall I am only convinced by the P870xx model series from a technical point of view! If I were a developer at Clevo, I would update the motherboard of the P870xx to the latest Intel 14/15/16 Gen. and no longer use MXM, but simply Flat PCIe x16 5.0 with an extra vapor chamber. In other words, a normal desktop graphics card. My development shows that it works!!!
The P870 is a better desktop but it had issues cooling the 9th gen CPUs. The X170 was the better laptop except for the stupid dual power supply construction:
- much better sound
- better keyboard
- better fans
- unified heatsink
I would also have preferred to see those improvements in a slightly bigger chassis with even better cooling but Clevo probably thought it would be overkill. Looking at the size of 5080 and 5090 desktop cards minus the cooler it is indeed a shame that nobody puts them in a laptop. We know it is possible to cool up to 400W of GPU in a laptop as has been shown by SLI designs from Clevo and MSI.
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16 hours ago, Developer79 said:
It's a real shame that Clevo no longer manufactures high-end laptops like the P870xx. It's unfortunate.
It seems that the only option is to build one generation and then purchase a new laptop.The X580 is kind of a return to form after the lackluster X270 and X370 but they did not go all the way like with the X170 that in many aspects was a very good design.
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On 5/14/2025 at 12:25 AM, win32asmguy said:
I actually ended up returning the X580 to Sager. Primarily due to its lack of tuning features for the price. I expect undervolting and memory tuning to be available.
Back in late February I had also pre-ordered a Hydroc G2 from Eluktronics. It shipped last week and this laptop has it all. Here is its run down of good points:
- Premamod bios - full CPU and memory tuning
- Tuning of GPU TDP and dynamic boost configuration up to 175W
- 420W Power supply
- 2x SODIMM with supplemental cooling for better memory tuning
- Full sized right shift key and more solid keyboard with better travel
- miniLED with local dimming switch
- TB4 port wired to iGPU (also mDP and HDMI wired to dGPU)
- modular GPU board
- excellent fan noise - no whine, along with full fan curve and hysteresis control
- decent speakers (unsure of their wattage)
- boot override configurability for all RGB zones
Here is a run of AIDA64 at 6400 CL38 Gear2. I guess there is the Raider 18 with 285HX + 5090M + QHD+ at Micro Center for $4100 but to be honest I don't like its RGB configuration support so its not something I would be interested in regardless of its performance. There is still no solid information about if its TB5 ports can be driven by the iGPU either.
Looks very good indeed! There is a reason I wish they'd do an 18" workstation.
I know you have been considering to go with a 16" laptop and for your use case this always looked like the strongest option with the TB4 connection, the impressive TDP and the Prema Bios. Glad to hear that the quality is also pretty good now which I am told wasn't always the case.
I read up a bit on undervolting of the new Intel chips and it seems to me that the gains are rather limited with values like -50mV. If that was the case then maybe it is not such a big deal if it isn't available as power savings would be pretty small at only -50mV.
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6 hours ago, the jg89 said:
Decided to bite the bullet and get it myself from here https://www.scan.co.uk/products/18-3xs-vengeance-5090-240hz-qhdplus-1610-24gb-nvidia-rtx-5090-core-ultra-9-275hx-64gb-ddr5-2tb-m2-wi
One thing to note is that the preorder thing right there is misleading, had to get in touch with customer sevice to realize that it's made to order and build, you have to go here to do it https://www.scan.co.uk/3xs/custom/gaming/laptop#anc
lol
Cool 🙂
Let us know how things work out with your SSDs!
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33 minutes ago, SACbomber said:
Can tell you that having the fan speeds set to 25% sure sounds different than 10%.
That is very cool as for the last gen nothing changed between 1 and 25! Sent that to MSI as feedback and also the lack of fan blades and this year there are more fan blades and also the fan speed has a bigger range - well done!
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On 5/7/2025 at 3:36 AM, SACbomber said:
[...]Went and set the minimum values of both fans to 10%. Now I get no more fan pulsing.
I think that the fan control is a big relief as pulsing is worse than a certain minimum level of fan noise that can be tolerated.
How are the fans controlled this gen - do they actually get more quiet below 25 or is that still the minimum and below that they do not reduce their noise level any further?
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5 hours ago, SACbomber said:
Titan killer? 4 RAM slots certainly won't be as fast as 2, though...
Also no HDR1000 display or mechanical keyboard.
Not really - only MSI offers the combo of 4 drives, vapor chamber, UHD LED screen and mechanical keyboard.
I have asked Schenker about the option to undervolt the X580 as I have done this with all my main laptops for a long time now and there is always some improvement to be had by undervolting.
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So this week after some more testing I wanted to pull the trigger on the 5070Ti version of the X580 from Schenker and along comes this:
- 18"
- 4 drives
- 4 memory slots
- 2 TB5
So same as in the Clevo which is pretty unbelieveable coming from Lenovo!
Crazy specs, and some things that I have been missing in the Clevo:
- undervolting
- vapor chamber cooling rated at up to 280W
- 400W power supply
- TB5 with 140W power delivery
- unless something changes dramatically a very nice keyboard with a good cursor key section
Not so great and potential downsides:
- possibly no QHD display which could be a dealbreaker
- dual sided SSDs are not confirmed as being supported
- no subwoofer but supposedly a 6 chassis speaker system
- looks less understated than the Clevo
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18 hours ago, SACbomber said:
Doubting there's any meaningful airflow over the CPU/GPU dies and VRMs/VRAMs. All the thermal putty/pads/paste would cut off the airflow.
This is all still pretty new so I would simply check temps and performance, they should be easy to check. Plus for workstation use I will mostly use the CPU in my laptops so that already helps with temps.
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10 hours ago, SACbomber said:
Think we're far from the Sager/Clevo theme now but here's this laptop's cooling solution:
Looks like three fans and five or six heatpipes. Reminds me of ASUS's solution with three fans. What's the third fan meant to do? Cool the VRAM/VRMs?
This can actually be a very smart solution as in todays laptops memory, chipsets and the SSDs can get very toasty. So an added fan or two that get(s) the air moving over all those components is a really good idea. More and more manufacturers seem to want to make sure that those areas are cooled and so far we are already seeing that third fan with Asus, TongFang and Gigabyte even has two added fans for that purpose.
The Cooling has some TongFang vibes by the way if you look at their latest 16" watercooling design:
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14 hours ago, win32asmguy said:
It seems like the X580 does OK with a heatpipe system. Would a vapor chamber have helped slightly? Maybe but only Clevo engineering would know at this point.
I doubt it would make much more than a 20 to 30W difference and for CPU only / CPU heavy loads it will probably have very little real world impact.
I have waited (very long) for feedback about the 5070Ti and it seems that it is pretty good and not that much worse than the 4080 mobile last year so it looks like I will go with that, looking forward to the 580!
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13 hours ago, win32asmguy said:
I think that one is not a Tongfang, instead a different company as it was called "Thunderobot Zero 18" at CES. Supposedly same vendor Eluktronics used on a 16 inch model a few years ago which ended up having worse build quality.
I checked a few pics from CES and one of their models looks like a Clevo and another one has a distinct Dell vibe. Looks like they emulate the look of other manufacturers including TongFang.
13 hours ago, win32asmguy said:In other news, the X560 is starting to show up. It looks like it caps out at a 155W 5090m, and has three SSD slots along with support for up to 128GB RAM. It still has a vapor chamber just like the PE60 which is nice.
Do you have a link where we can see the inside of the X560? 3 drives is above average for sure and it is still puzzling that Clevo does not go for a vapor chamber in their top model.
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Surprise surprise: Medion announced its ERAZER Beast 18 X1 and I thought it was another X580 vendor but instead it looks like a TongFang!
Sadly without liquid cooling:
Connectivity is rather sparse and if I had to guess it is 2 NVME and 2 memory slots each.
For me this might be the best looking chassis this gen including the keyboard with proper cursor keys and a separate power button.
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On 4/23/2025 at 5:12 PM, mellbroooks said:
Given your current setup and expectations, it sounds like you need a true desktop replacement with serious power, reliability, and expansion options. Based on what you’ve described, a strong contender would be the Lenovo ThinkPad P1 Gen 6 or the Dell Precision 7780.
But if you want a specific model that checks almost every box — the Lenovo ThinkPad P1 Gen 6 with Intel i9-13900H, 64GB RAM, 4TB SSD (with a second slot), and RTX 4070 graphics is an excellent pick. Here's why:
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Performance: It's blazing fast, handles demanding tasks with ease, and supports dual NVMe SSDs — perfect for your current storage setup.
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Build & Cooling: Great thermals, especially compared to the XPS series which often suffers in that department. Magnesium alloy chassis keeps it sturdy without being bulky.
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Keyboard: Classic ThinkPad typing experience — tactile, accurate, and comfortable for long sessions (ideal since you type a lot).
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Display: 16" WQXGA (2560x1600) with 100% sRGB — bright, sharp, and a good compromise from 17” while staying portable.
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Ports: Includes multiple USB-C/Thunderbolt, HDMI, headphone jack, and SD card reader.
You’ll also get ISV certifications if you ever dabble in professional creative or CAD software — even if you're not gaming, this type of machine will run cool and stable under heavy loads.
If you’re leaning toward Dell again, the Precision 7780 (a business-grade cousin of the XPS 17) could be a better experience with much better thermals and pro-grade durability.
He already ordered a Thinkpad P16 Gen 2 and received it on the 14th of March.
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11 hours ago, win32asmguy said:
I regularly run mine with fans limited to 45db or less, so it can get quite a bit hotter even at lower wattages. I miss the days of monsters like the X170 and GT75 that could sustain good performance with that constraint.
I have a MSI GT76 with the 10900K and the 2080 Super, same gen as the X170, and it also can be set up so that it is astonishingly quiet at about 90% of max performance. It also has a very nice fan control called silent option that I am sure you will remember - those were the days...
11 hours ago, win32asmguy said:Gaudy chassis was the nail in the coffin for the Raider 18 last year too. There is one called a CreatorPro X18 which has the best aesthetics of them all. Membrane white backlit keyboard, regular track pad, gray accents instead of blue or red.
The previous Raider chassis is actually the most stealth and completely black chassis option minus the red accents, at least it is only red and black and nothing else.
Had both the Titan and the Raider and very much prefer the Raider as I am much more of a red than a blue guy plus the Raider was a lot less and had the QHD option. All black would of course be much better but then MS probably thinks that this is too boring. The keyboard obviously can be any color you want but I remember you had an issue with RGB at bootup that I imagine could be rather annoying in corporate style meetings...
Having lately had the pleasure to check out the CreatorPro 18 this is indeed the one I would want if it wasn't for the fact that it only has two NVME slots which is a really bad joke on behalf of MSI. The chassis is basically a Raider chassis but only in shades of grey / silver and with a bluish-white keyboard and the vapor chamber / 400W power brick that it shares with the Titan. Looks very nice "in person" but the keyboard deck still has more flex than the Titan 18 that is more solid in that area.
Official Clevo P870TM-G Thread
in Sager & Clevo
Posted
Well, this has hundreds of posts, got a link?