saperkus

On 6/23/2023 at 3:37 PM, the_professor said:

Are you sure about this? I remember reading reports that the BIOS option to disable the dGPU was still present on the Studio G9.

I can't be more sure, as I own the device. I never had the opportunity to test the ZBook Studio, so I can't comment on it.

On 5/3/2023 at 11:05 AM, Easa said:

The cooperation with DreamWorks was truly the real start of the DreamColor displays, but nowadays, who knows, I doubt the screen manufacturers receive any input from DW or HP, I bet the HP just picks the best panel available ATM.

HP is no longer working with DreamWorks, as DreamWorks is currently romancing with Lenovo.

https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/servers-storage/solutions/customer-stories/dreamworks/

On 5/3/2023 at 11:05 AM, Easa said:

Where did you get this? When I go to the product page, it says that the QuickSpecs are still TBA:

From my experience, these portals are often not up-to-date or even working at times... Anyway, all QuickSpecs documents are always uploaded to the site below:

https://www8.hp.com/h20195/v2/Library.aspx?doctype=41&doccompany=HPI&footer=41&filter_doctype=no&filter_doclang=no&country=&filter_country=no&cc=us&lc=en&filter_status=rw#doctype-41&sortorder-popular&teasers-off&isRetired-false&isRHParentNode-false

On 5/3/2023 at 11:05 AM, Easa said:

Well, we are still stuck with the 230W nonsense on the G10 & I worry what the next generation will bring.

I just wanted to point out, that HP used up to 200W PSUs for many generations and G9 finally introduced an improvement. HP is rather conservative with making any changes, so there's no change in G10. Maybe G11 will introduce bigger PSU...

On 5/3/2023 at 11:05 AM, Easa said:

Funny thing, QuickSpecs mention availability of 5600MHz DDR5 RAM for the new Fury, but the SODIMM limitation still sits at 4000MHz. Is this purely marketing BS or am I missing something?

I have explained it in the other topic:

On 6/6/2023 at 1:48 PM, Ondrej said:

DO NOT PURCHASE THE VERSION WITH THE RGB KEYBOARD!

I have compared Fury 15 G8 and Fury 16 G9 (standard backlit) keyboards and the later is inferior. The typing feeling was a lot worse - to the point, that I got a feeling that I am using some sort of an RCU. It seems that RGB keyboard is even worse than that...

On 6/6/2023 at 1:48 PM, Ondrej said:

The buttons do not alight with the chassis of the body. Due to this there is this terrible glow leaking from under the buttons and instead of boosting my productivity with custom led buttons, I have decreased it, since the glow is so bad, that I have to be switching the LEDS of the keyboard off.

It seems that the cause of the issue is the fact, that HP fused keyboard with palmrest and that palmrest is not flat around the keyboard area. I was told, that HP fused them together to achieve their sustainability or carbon footprint goals...

On 6/20/2023 at 4:36 AM, rzamz said:

Is it possible to disable the discrete GPU in the BIOS? I'm considering buying a G9 currently on sale but it comes with an RTX A1000 which is mostly incompatible for my use case.

No, it is no longer possible. On early BIOS versions of HP ZBook Fury 15 G8 it was still possible, but then a security vulnerability was found and feature was removed.

On 6/20/2023 at 4:36 AM, rzamz said:

Or alternatively would there be any issue just removing the graphics card?

Technically, it should work, but there was some issues connected to it:

• dGPU is non-user replaceable part. In case of warranty claim, HP may refuse the warranty repairs due to hardware alternation.
• HP is using compression-based connector (BEAM connector) for the dGPU. After its removal, the connector needs to be disposed and new one should be installed. Getting new one is difficult and questionably pricey.
• You would need to use kapton tape to protect the dGPU slot, as otherwise you may cause a short and fry the motherboard in process. Alternatively, you can buy a UWA heat sink, but this would be an additional investment.
• I do not know, if some kind of spacer/bracket/passthrough adapter would be necessary to make iGPU to support external displays... Normally, these displays are driven by dGPU.

On 4/30/2023 at 8:35 AM, fp23 said:

HP ZBook laptops also offer WWAN upgrades, whereas 7680/7780 do not, and it's a deal breaker to me for a workstation nowadays.

This depends. HP offers two versions of motherboards - WWAN ready and no WWAN. In the later, device do not have M.2 port and SIM slot on the motherboard, so it's physically impossible to install it later. It's always a good practice to check, which type of the motherboard the device has.

On 4/29/2023 at 9:49 PM, Ionising_Radiation said:

And perhaps most importantly, the fact that HP offers a 4K-class, 16:10, high-refresh-rate, deep-colour, wide-gamut display (whereas even the 7680 is still stuck with a 1920×1200 60 Hz) is very enticing indeed. 

Years ago HP began cooperation with DreamWorks. The results of this cooperation are DreamColor displays, which you've mentioned.

On 4/22/2023 at 8:17 AM, Researcher said:

When will the Fury16G10 available? The sealler told me that it should be someday late spring. Can wait for G10.

HP released the QuickSpecs of the device, so it is most likely already released.

https://www8.hp.com/h20195/v2/GetDocument.aspx?docname=c08580055

It could be, that device is currently available for bulk orders and it will take a few weeks before it will be available on the retail market (or configurable at HP Site).

14 hours ago, Etern4l said:

 

Yikes, that makes no sense. Would expect a performance penalty when using 4 SODIMMs, but not a general penalty on 4-DIMM systems. Are we saying that Lenovo is falsely advertising 4800 regardless of memory capacity? Anyway, even if the P16 performs as advertised, 4800 with 2 SODIMMs is not great. GT77 is 13th gen so perhaps the new IMC is making some difference, although 12th gen would go up to something like 6600 on some desktops.

I would say, that Lenovo merely stated which modules will be installed in the device - not their real working parameters. Please check the PSREF documentation of P16. With four SO-DIMM slots, you can't go above DDR5-4000 speeds even if only single module is used. With 4x 32GB the speeds will go down to DDR5-3600.

Quote

System comes with DDR5-4800 memory and will run at DDR5-4000 and DDR5-3600 due to platform limitation:
4x 32GB configuration runs at DDR5-3600, other configurations run at DDR5-4000.

https://psref.lenovo.com/syspool/Sys/PDF/ThinkPad/ThinkPad_P16_Gen_1/ThinkPad_P16_Gen_1_Spec.pdf (page 3)

More information about this issue can be found on the HP ZBook Fury G9 QuickSpecs document (page 11). As long as single DIMM is used per channel, the speeds will be 4000 MT/s. In case of two DIMMs per channel, 4000 MT/s speeds will be retained with single rank modules (8GB and 16GB). With three of four dual rank modules (32GB), speeds will be limited to 3600 MT/s. HP also warned, that if single and dual rank modules will be mixed in the same channel, then speed can drop to 2000 MT/s and system may become unstable.

https://h20195.www2.hp.com/v2/GetDocument.aspx?docname=c08160125 (page 11)

To put it short, we hit a limitation of SO-DIMM standard. Back in 2021 there already were limitations in case of use of DDR4-3200. In case of mixing vendors or capacity, the speeds were often limited to 2933 MT/s.

Quote

Transfer rates up to 3200 MT/s for nECC and ECC memory combinations when memory suppliers are consistent. If suppliers
are not consistent, speeds may drop to 2933 MT/s for nECC and 2933 MT/s for ECC memory combinations.

https://h20195.www2.hp.com/v2/getpdf.aspx/c07606964.pdf (page 9)

I can tell for sure, that HP ZBook Fury G9 has 40Gbps per USB-C/TB4 port. I have no idea, if ZBook Studio was designed in the same way.

1 hour ago, saturnotaku said:

I seem to remember Linus doing a video very recently about this issue and that it was noticed by Microsoft.

Yeah, there's the video if anyone is interested:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHKKcd3sx2c

Both Windows 10 and 11 are affected by this issue. In some devices the issue was even more severe - like HP EliteBook 845 G8, which simply freeze instead of going in to sleep. HP released so called "System Default Settings" package to address this issue... The funny fact is, that package is available on 845 G7 drivers page instead of 845 G8, so many owners most likely missed it.

14 hours ago, Aaron44126 said:

You can get MXM 3.0b cards for RTX 3000/4000/5000 (Turing generation) which are sourced from HP ZBook systems and can often be spotted on eBay, etc..  They are "generic" enough to work in Dell Precision systems (older ones that support MXM) without any hassle, without any vBIOS flashing or anything like that.  So, I would think that they would work in older HP systems if there is not a GPU whitelist in the BIOS (...which I know they have been known to do).

 

Well, "almost" without any hassle.  The board layout isn't quite standard.  There is a little piece sticking out on one side so you'll have to have a bit of extra physical space next to the MXM slot for the card to fit.  And, the GPU chip isn't quite in the same place so a mod to the heatsink is likely necessary (drilling some holes for the screws in different positions) to mount it onto one of these GPU cards.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Thank you for this information. I have checked the RTX MXM modules and I am quite afraid, that I might need to remove battery connector to even try to fit the card inside the chassis. Also I don't want to make extra holes in a prototype device. So, this is definitely not the road, which I would take.

To be frank, I have only heard that ThinkPads P70/P71 had these whitelists. Do you know any example models, which have MXM whitelists? I know, that HP ZBook 15 G3 does not have a whitelist (one user reported, that he was able to run GTX 1050 Ti), so I hope that 17 G3 also does not have one too...

12 hours ago, ssj92 said:

My RTX 3000 is from Adlink, you will probably never be able to find it online unless someone from a company sells it. 

 

The HP RTX series are available on eBay and quite cheap. Not sure if they will physically fit as they are slightly larger than standard mxm 3.0b.

 

There is a P4000 on eBay for $280 

P5000 for $350 

 

Prices have come down and those are also great options. 

Thank you. I was missing the Adlink name. With it, I've found your topic and I must say, that's some fantastic work there.

P4000/P5000 prices are excellent in US, but not so much where I live. I was able to find single P4000 locally and it costs over $550 and if I want to import one, I think I would need to pay a similar price in total (device + shipping + taxes). Did you had a chance to test P3200?

18 minutes ago, FlashWolf said:

but i found a security flaw in all 4 of our hp zbook fury g9 notebooks, we've just checked the automatic bitlocker function in windows 11 security center (under Settings), it says hardware encryption is active. so far so good. but after looking under system information (with administrative privileges) under the section "Support for device encryption" it says not possible due to not allowed dma devices / bus.

in the windows event viewer list i find these entries:

 

The following DMA (Direct Memory Access) capable devices are not declared as protected from external access, which can block security features such as BitLocker automatic device encryption:

ISA Bridge:
    PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_7A8D (Intel(R) LPC Controller/eSPI Controller - 7A8D)

PCI-to-PCI Bridge:
    PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_1136 (PCI Express Downstream Switch Port)
    PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_1136 (PCI Express Downstream Switch Port)
    PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_1136 (PCI Express Downstream Switch Port)
    PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_1136 (PCI Express Downstream Switch Port)
    PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_7AB0 (Intel(R) PCI Express Root Port #9 - 7AB0)
    PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_1136 (PCI Express Upstream Switch Port)
    PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_7ABD (Intel(R) PCI Express Root Port #6 - 7ABD)
    PCI\VEN_8086&DEV_7AC8 (Intel(R) PCI Express Root Port #25 - 7AC8)
 

So, windows 11 says in the security center that the hard drives are encrypted but according to the system info and the event viewer its not. researching shows me that somehow the used dma devices in the new zbooks are not whitelisted in microsofts database?

does some of you have any clue about this topic?

Bitlocker is not my forte, so I cannot help much there. I was never a fan of SED (Self-Encrypted) disks, due to some vulnerabilities and thus I have some experience with software encryption only. There are two settings in the BIOS, which affects DMA on the device. First one is DMA protection and second configures what should be protected. You can try to disable it and check if this change anything or enable and limit support for Thunderbolt devices only/all PCIe devices.

I've got an early version of HP ZBook 17 G3. It seems, that this device is some sort of a prototype, which was sent to HP key customers before its release. Motherboard and bottom case have some differences in comparison to a final product. Device had definitely better days in the past - it was dead and some of parts were taken away. Specs were also unknown without a way to verify it (apart from GPU - CPU has basically no labels). I bought it just on a hunch. I just couldn't imagine, that any vendor would sent a shitty configuration to scare lucrative customers.
 

tl;dr: Got it fixed, device's specs are as follow:

- Intel Core i7-6820HQ.
- NVIDIA Quadro M4000M, TGP: 75W.
- 17.3" 1920x1080 IPS display.

There are some things left to be addressed in the future:

- Missing battery.
- Missing HDD Brackets.
- MXM GPU upgrade.
- LTE modem (maybe one day).

And MXM part is where I need a help... I would like to have something on NVIDIA RTX A2000 4GB level of performance. I have no need for a DLSS or Ray-Tracing.
I saw that other forum members are using P3000/P4000/P5000 modules, which seems to be the last officially produced ones by NVIDIA.

There are also P3200 and P4200 cards, which were available for HP ZBook 17 G5. They seems to be lacking vBIOS chip, so extra work is needed to make them usable.
Also some users are using Quadro RTX 3000 cards, but I have no idea about their source. I know, that Z2 Mini G5 (I think, it was MXM-A?) and HP ZBook 17 G6 had them, but I am not sure if that's the source. @ssj92 could you please advise?

So, could you please advise what should I look for? Which cards in general are known to work with Optimus/MUX or require some extra effort to make them cooperate? ZBook 17 G3 seems to not be able to provide more than 75W to the dGPU, so ideally the GPU should not require more than TGP=75W.

I had a possibility to use P3223QE with QHD display for a some time. I have done tests with colorimeter and got following results:

sRGB: 98.5%

AdobeRGB: 88.5%

DCI-P3: 86%

It is not that bad in comparison to a Dell UP3017:

sRGB: 100%

AdobeRGB: 98%

DCI-P3: 93.5%

Two Dells P2423 + single Dell SB522A Soundbar. My requirements were not complicated - 16:10 WUXGA display, dedicated soundbar and no PWM. First choice was HP Z24n G3, but they were out of stock for months. In meantime, I got an info about new 16:10 WUXGA display from Dell. It turned out to be really nice for my eyes and it was actually cheaper with 5Y warranty, than HP with 3Y.

I have a request. Can any of P16 owners share Cinebench R15 benchmark scores?

4 hours ago, FlashWolf said:

another thing is: why does the zbook not adress the full speed of the ram? inside are 2x16GB samsung 4800mhz ddr5 but in hwinfo and windows its showing me that the effective speed is only 4000mhz? also the intel specification of the 12950hx shows that it should be able to use the speed of 4800mhz

 

maybe you can confirm that you have the same problem?

That's the reason why Dell developed the CAMM modules... This is not a problem, but a platform limitation. Both Lenovo ThinkPad P16 and HP ZBook Fury 16 G9 are affected. With DDR5, we came to limits of SO-DIMM standard. These limits are not so apparent with two SO-DIMM slots devices, but four SO-DIMM slots requires longer routes, which effectively limits the maximum performance. Additionally, 2 Rank modules (32GB) will reduce maximum speed to 3600MHz. In general, if you are using up to 4x8GB, 4x16GB, 2x32GB RAM modules and you have not mixed modules form different vendors (in majority of cases), then you should get 4000MHz. If you have installed 3x32GB or 4x32GB, then maximum speed will be 3600MHz. And if you mix 1 Rank (8GB, 16GB) and 2 Rank (32GB) modules, then you may end up with 2000MHz...

And for your information, DDR4-3200 is also affected by this issue (I have verified it on HP ZBook Fury 15 G8). If you mix modules or use an unsupported configuration like 2x16GB + 2x8GB, then speeds will drop to 2933MHz.

4 hours ago, FlashWolf said:

i am also experiencing problems with all the thunderbolt docks, looks like a general thunderbolt problem. for information: we use the 280w Thunderbolt G4 and a dell wd19dcs. the dell tb15 with 180watt isnt even charging the hp notebook....

You should avoid any non-HP branded docks... WD19DCS has a custom charging implementation, which can be utilized only on Dell Precision 7000 Series devices. It can deliver 130W for other Dell devices (another custom implementation) and 90W for non-Dell devices. TB15 is a vile thing with a hardware flaw. Dell recalled it back in 2016. You should scrap it ASAP.

4 hours ago, FlashWolf said:

We are experiencing random display disconnects, so sporadically one of the connected displays disconnects and after 3 seconds connects again. this problem appears on all thunderbolt docks. we have already switched in bios from hybrid to discrete graphics but no success.

 

we have 4 hp zbook fury g9 and all 4 have the same problems..

Oh, this issue. I think, I first saw it back in 2014 or 2015 with HP ZBook 17 G1... It can have a different "flavors". Screen could be blinking or device will simply stop recognizing external displays. I have experienced it few weeks ago - last time on HP ZBook Fury 15 G8. There was a dock with two external displays connected to it. When only one display was powered on, then screen was blinking and artifacts were visible on the display. But, when I have turned out second display, issue was gone. You need to change display topology (e.g. use more/less displays than usual) - this should force the device to reinitialize the video. You can also simply connect directly one display, which previously was never connected to the device. This should also do the trick.

And switching from Hybrid to Discrete will change nothing in this regard, as all external outputs are wired to discrete GPU. Old Dell Precision 7000 devices had an option in BIOS to route all video outputs to iGPU. I never saw a similar option in Lenovo ThinkPad P-series or HP ZBook devices.

There used to be a topic on Tom's Guide about MXM GPU upgrades on HP ZBook devices. Someone tested quite a bit of MXM GPUs on HP ZBook 17 G2 - luckily I made a screenshot from that post.

I was able to test two 16 G9 with different configurations:

• i7-12850HX, RTX A1000, 1920x1200 400nits 100% sRGB display.
• i9-12950HX, RTX A5500 (Vapor Chamber), 1920x1200 400nits 100% sRGB display.

I compared them to 15 G8, so visually I prefer G8 ascetics - especially palmrest area. G9 is definitely not as loud as G8 during the work. I would even say, that the loudness was on tolerable level, but as I am using cooling pad with G8, my noise tolerance may be quite a bit higher than rest of the users. Temperature-wise, G9 is also quite better than G8, however G8 was not that bad, when I compare it to G7. The bottom cover of G7 had over 70C during the load. Even on idle it was very uncomfortable to touch (around 50C).

Going back to G9... Good points were already mentioned in topic, so I will focus on some of issues... Device is a real scratch magnet in comparison to G7/G8. Just by putting it upside-down to get an access to internals was enough to get some scratches on the top. I have also observed some strange flickering on the display - it was not a PWM, but it seems that one of panels had some issues with displaying some colors. This issue was not visible on every unit, so it could be that one of panel vendors provided a faulty panels. Performance wise, there is no point in getting anything better than i7-12850HX, as I got basically exactly there same performance on i7 and i9 devices. There might be a slightly better single core performance, but this is not enough to justify extra cost (and higher thermals). If someone is using HP Thunderbolt docks, then device can also have some strange issues with them, but I do not think they will have any impact on home use.

Greetings everyone,

I used to lurk on NBR forums from time to time until, well... it disappeared. Just recently I have found out about this forums. For whatever reason, I always felt that upgradable/not soldered GPUs topic in notebooks is interesting, so I wanted to be up to date with recent advancements. I especially remember @Ionising_Radiation success with RTX3000 DGFF upgrade on Dell Precision 7530. Or flashing 7730 vBIOS on P3200 to get a better performance. There were other notable people (like someone running GTX 1070 on 8770W), but sadly I no longer remember the names...

After some recent events, I became an owner of HP ZBook 17 G3 (it was around the same time, when I found out about the forums). Device was BIOS-dead (2 long beeps, 2 shot beeps error), but with a help from some service, device is working fine now and I would love to see what it is capable of. I would like to upgrade the GPU to Pascal, as current GPU feels really dated (it would be nice to have something on RTX A2000 4GB level, minus DLSS and RayTracing), but after reading about problems with vBIOS or even lack of vBIOS chip, I would like to learn more first, to not buy something which I cannot use.