Lenovo Legion 2023 discussion

[jlp0209]

14 minutes ago, saturnotaku said:

The 53x.xx NVIDIA drivers seem to be problematic for RTX 4000 laptop GPUs across multiple OEMs. Windows Update supplied version 528.66 for me, and they've been working flawlessly so I'll be sticking with them for the foreseeable future.

Thanks for posting that, I didn't realize. I was able to register at the TPU forums and was sent a link for the beta version of TS that supports CPU undervolting, will try it out later, FYI if you haven't tried that yet. 

[jlp0209]

I've read reports that RAM may be running at 4800mhz and that Lenovo may update via BIOS. My RAM is running at the advertised 5600mhz. I updated to the latest BIOS, KWCN32WW. 

 

I am not able to undervolt the CPU at all. I've disabled core isolation and virtualization settings in Windows and have disabled undervolt protection in the BIOS. I am able to adjust the voltage offsets in TS and Intel XTU but the settings do not apply / stick. Am I missing any steps here? Thanks in advance. 

 

[Shark00n]

What are the stock RAM modules in these laptops?

 

Thinking of getting the 16GB version and then just buying a 2x16GB DDR5 kit. The upgrade thru lenovo is pricey!

 

Any decent 5600MHz JEDEC kits out there?

 

 

 

 

Also, I've seen so many reviews have been posted lately about the Pro 7i. But every single one of them has the 4080. Anyone seen 4090 results?

[jlp0209]

5 hours ago, Shark00n said:

What are the stock RAM modules in these laptops?

 

Thinking of getting the 16GB version and then just buying a 2x16GB DDR5 kit. The upgrade thru lenovo is pricey!

 

Any decent 5600MHz JEDEC kits out there?

 

 

 

 

Also, I've seen so many reviews have been posted lately about the Pro 7i. But every single one of them has the 4080. Anyone seen 4090 results?

 

Seems as if there are many different types of RAM for this machine, the parts list for mine shows 7 substitutes.

 

 

On another note, I tried using the SlimQ 330w GaN charger doesn't work with my Pro 7! I can't run in any modes except for balanced and quiet, and CPU power is limited to around 50-ish watts. The laptop charges just fine though. I left my official Lenovo charger at my office and planned to use this one at home. So much for doing any gaming or anything else tonight. 🤣

[saturnotaku]

I can use the big 300W brick from my as-yet unsold Legion 5 in all modes. You may want to reach out to the SlimQ folks to see what they say. They seem to be pretty responsive to inquiries from what I've seen.

[jlp0209]

7 hours ago, saturnotaku said:

I can use the big 300W brick from my as-yet unsold Legion 5 in all modes. You may want to reach out to the SlimQ folks to see what they say. They seem to be pretty responsive to inquiries from what I've seen.

Will try reaching out to them. Do you experience slight screen flicker at low brightness levels? It happens when I am in dGPU mode, when in Optimus or iGPU mode it is fine. Only at the 2nd lowest brightness level and below. If I turn on HDR and lower the brightness there is no flicker, strange. Hopefully it is an nVidia driver issue and not a bad DisplayPort cable or panel issue. 

 

*Edit- the screen flicker doesn't happen when I set the system to discreet mode bypassing Advanced Optimus. Only happens when in dGPU mode via Advanced Optimus at the 2 lowest brightness levels. 100% a software / AO issue and not hardware. Phew. 

[jlp0209]

FYI, Microcenter now has the 4090 version in stock for $3299.

 

Lenovo Legion Pro 7i 16" Gaming Laptop Computer Platinum Collection - Onyx Grey; Intel Core i9 13th Gen 13900HX 1.6GHz - Micro Center

 

[saturnotaku]

21 hours ago, jlp0209 said:

FYI, Microcenter now has the 4090 version in stock for $3299.

 

Lenovo Legion Pro 7i 16" Gaming Laptop Computer Platinum Collection - Onyx Grey; Intel Core i9 13th Gen 13900HX 1.6GHz - Micro Center

 

 

Side note - the 4090 version has a 1 TB SSD as opposed to 2x1 TB on the 4080.

 

While tempting, I'm hesitant to return mine because I've not had any of the problems that have been reported with a lot of RTX 4000 laptops. Also, based on Jarrod's review, the 4080 isn't far enough behind a 4090 of comparable wattage to justify spending an additional $650 while losing half the storage.

[jlp0209]

I think I can safely say this will be a keeper laptop for at least a couple of years. Fingers crossed no G-sync issues like Legions past. I'm not getting any crashes or game stuttering like what's been reported, the bios got auto updated through Windows updates to version 33 for me. The thermals on this laptop are incredible and I didn't expect it to be this good. My paranoia has been triggered by the odd display flicker with Advanced Optimus dGPU mode at the two lowest brightness levels. But it doesn't happen in Hybrid mode (running on iGPU) or iGPU mode, or when running dGPU only mode through bios / Vantage. So I'm trying to convince myself it isn't hardware but rather some bug with Advanced Optimus. 

 

My CPU is stable with a -150mv undervolt on the core and -100mv on the p-cores and e-cores. Cinebench R23 10 minute run and TimeSpy test attached. GPU OC is +225 core and +1200 memory. I crash at +230 in games and benchmarks. 

 

 

[jlp0209]

I just tried another Pro 7i, it has the same issue with display flicker at low brightness when using Advanced Optimus in dGPU mode. Seems to be 100% software / driver / bios related. For a $3000 laptop I had to be sure. What is the best way to send a message to Lenovo engineers etc., so that they can look into a fix? 

[jlp0209]

4090 version is now $2999 at Microcenter, FYI. Very solid deal, imo. Might be the cheapest 4090 system at the moment?

 

Noticed it as I need to buy a spare AC adapter and my local store actually has the Lenovo slim 300w adapter. The SlimQ 240w and 330w adapters that I have don't work with this laptop, it is limiting me to quiet or balanced mode. SlimQ apparently is aware of it and should send out a replacement Lenovo plug, but not holding my breath.

[Shark00n]

On 4/7/2023 at 4:23 PM, jlp0209 said:

4090 version is now $2999 at Microcenter, FYI. Very solid deal, imo

Idk man, the GT77 gets 100 more Time Spy score and only costs 2500 bucks more. 🙃 🙃 🙃

[saturnotaku]

On 4/7/2023 at 10:23 AM, jlp0209 said:

4090 version is now $2999 at Microcenter, FYI. Very solid deal, imo. Might be the cheapest 4090 system at the moment?

 

A $250 price premium over the 4080 is much easier to swallow, though again I really don't want to change mine out in light of all the reports of misbehaving RTX 4000 laptops from across the spectrum, yours very much included. My Pro 7i doesn't suffer from the low-brightness flicker in AO dGPU mode so to me that could potentially indicate a problem with the 4090's VBIOS. 

[jlp0209]

1 hour ago, saturnotaku said:

 

A $250 price premium over the 4080 is much easier to swallow, though again I really don't want to change mine out in light of all the reports of misbehaving RTX 4000 laptops from across the spectrum, yours very much included. My Pro 7i doesn't suffer from the low-brightness flicker in AO dGPU mode so to me that could potentially indicate a problem with the 4090's VBIOS. 

 

I'd agree with you on that, thank you for confirming that the flicker doesn't occur on yours, helps narrow it down a bit. Considering all I've gone through with my history of Legions / G-sync issues, etc., if flicker at lowest brightness using AO dGPU mode is my only issue I'll accept that. I'm not ready to flash vbios on this laptop yet and -likely- won't. I've compared a few that are out there to mine using NVflash and they are totally mismatched. I didn't flash the 2nd laptop I ordered to confirm the flicker, just wanted to test it and sent it back. I will look into reaching out to Lenovo about it, wonder if they can update the vbios, if that is the reason. 

[win32asmguy]

3 hours ago, jlp0209 said:

 

I'd agree with you on that, thank you for confirming that the flicker doesn't occur on yours, helps narrow it down a bit. Considering all I've gone through with my history of Legions / G-sync issues, etc., if flicker at lowest brightness using AO dGPU mode is my only issue I'll accept that. I'm not ready to flash vbios on this laptop yet and -likely- won't. I've compared a few that are out there to mine using NVflash and they are totally mismatched. I didn't flash the 2nd laptop I ordered to confirm the flicker, just wanted to test it and sent it back. I will look into reaching out to Lenovo about it, wonder if they can update the vbios, if that is the reason. 

 

Did your machine with the flicker have the BOE or CSOT panel? Curious if its a vendor-specific issue. AFAIK they can use either vendor for both the 4080 and 4090 model depending on what they have on hand.

[jlp0209]

24 minutes ago, win32asmguy said:

 

Did your machine with the flicker have the BOE or CSOT panel? Curious if its a vendor-specific issue. AFAIK they can use either vendor for both the 4080 and 4090 model depending on what they have on hand.

Both machines I've tried have BOE panels. 

[saturnotaku]

1 hour ago, win32asmguy said:

 

Did your machine with the flicker have the BOE or CSOT panel? Curious if its a vendor-specific issue. AFAIK they can use either vendor for both the 4080 and 4090 model depending on what they have on hand.

 

Mine is the CSOT panel so your hypothesis of it being a vendor-specific issue may have some weight. Also, I can't do math, the price difference between the MicroCenter 4080 and 4090 is $350, not $250. 

[jlp0209]

5 minutes ago, saturnotaku said:

 

Mine is the CSOT panel so your hypothesis of it being a vendor-specific issue may have some weight. Also, I can't do math, the price difference between the MicroCenter 4080 and 4090 is $350, not $250. 

I posted on Lenovo's support forum, hopefully someone who can do something about it will get word of it. Tempted to just buy another one at Microcenter now and hope for the other display panel. But I don't want to go down that road / vicious cycle either... 

[saturnotaku]

9 minutes ago, jlp0209 said:

I posted on Lenovo's support forum, hopefully someone who can do something about it will get word of it. Tempted to just buy another one at Microcenter now and hope for the other display panel. But I don't want to go down that road / vicious cycle either... 

 

You could throw the question up on the Legion and GamingLaptops subreddits as well. If it is indeed a panel-specific issue, maybe there will be some commonality with people who have other 4000-series laptops that are experiencing the same. 

 

I'm with you on the return/rebuy cycle. That's why I'm leaning toward just keeping what I have. 

[jlp0209]

22 hours ago, win32asmguy said:

 

Did your machine with the flicker have the BOE or CSOT panel? Curious if its a vendor-specific issue. AFAIK they can use either vendor for both the 4080 and 4090 model depending on what they have on hand.

 

21 hours ago, saturnotaku said:

 

You could throw the question up on the Legion and GamingLaptops subreddits as well. If it is indeed a panel-specific issue, maybe there will be some commonality with people who have other 4000-series laptops that are experiencing the same. 

 

I'm with you on the return/rebuy cycle. That's why I'm leaning toward just keeping what I have. 

 

Picked up another system from Microcenter, this one has the CSO1628 panel. It also exhibits the flicker at the two lowest brightness settings when in Advanced Optimus + dGPU mode. So this may be a 4090 thing, who knows. Really never use the laptop at lowest brightness while gaming, so not sure it'll matter in the long run. Will just keep this one and send back my original to Lenovo, incidentally Rakuten isn't giving me the cash back because I bought it through my organization's link, so Microcenter ends up being slightly cheaper. 

[Talon]

I've had the 4080 model about 1.5 months. My first unit was sent back to Lenovo due to a huge dent in my Vapor Chamber. It looked like a tiny hammer was dropped right on the vapor chamber and left a large impression teh size of a quarter. After some back and forth with Lenovo they sent me a brand new unit. 

 

My original unit had SK Hynix "M-Dies" 5600 CL46. 

 

My new unit has SK Hynix "A-Dies" 5600 CL46. They actually overclock easily to 5600 CL36, but never tested upping the ratio to test higher speeds. 

 

I installed my 990 Pro 2TB this afternoon, as well as some Kingston Fury 5600 CL40 A-Dies 2x16gb. These originally did not work above 4800 until a fix was discovered by the discord group. I am now running them at 6000 CL36 seen here. 

 

I have yet to have any crashes, BSOD, etc. Tested some memory tests, games and what not and all seems good to go. Although I can't really say I recommend this for novice users since it does involve using a way into the hidden BIOS and could potentially brick the unit if you mess something up or tune something you shouldn't.  

[jlp0209]

2 hours ago, Talon said:

I've had the 4080 model about 1.5 months. My first unit was sent back to Lenovo due to a huge dent in my Vapor Chamber. It looked like a tiny hammer was dropped right on the vapor chamber and left a large impression teh size of a quarter. After some back and forth with Lenovo they sent me a brand new unit. 

 

My original unit had SK Hynix "M-Dies" 5600 CL46. 

 

My new unit has SK Hynix "A-Dies" 5600 CL46. They actually overclock easily to 5600 CL36, but never tested upping the ratio to test higher speeds. 

 

I installed my 990 Pro 2TB this afternoon, as well as some Kingston Fury 5600 CL40 A-Dies 2x16gb. These originally did not work above 4800 until a fix was discovered by the discord group. I am now running them at 6000 CL36 seen here. 

 

I have yet to have any crashes, BSOD, etc. Tested some memory tests, games and what not and all seems good to go. Although I can't really say I recommend this for novice users since it does involve using a way into the hidden BIOS and could potentially brick the unit if you mess something up or tune something you shouldn't.  

How are you able to access the hidden bios features? I'd like to see if I can adjust the CPU multiplier and properly OC it, along with adding some new RAM. Your result is very promising. 

[saturnotaku]

How can you tell whether you have A-die or M-die RAM?

[Talon]

9 hours ago, jlp0209 said:

How are you able to access the hidden bios features? I'd like to see if I can adjust the CPU multiplier and properly OC it, along with adding some new RAM. Your result is very promising. 

 

Head over to the Lenovo discord channel. There are a bunch of pretty good owners in there. In there you will find the instructions on how to create a USB thumbdrive that a modder/bios guy created that allows you to access the hidden menus. When you use the USB you can get into the menus, and then when you reboot without it the menus are normal. This is good because you don't have to flash a custom BIOS and no worry about warranty. But like I said, you can tweak something you shouldn't and could end up with a brick or soft brick. 

1 hour ago, saturnotaku said:

How can you tell whether you have A-die or M-die RAM?

 

Look at the memory die on the DIMM. You likely also have SK Hynix, looking at the part number that starts with "H" if you have an "A" in the middle of that sequence you have "A-Die". If you have an "M" you have "M-Die". Most A-Dies have AGBD as the model, regardless of brands. I've seen 4x different brands all use this version of A-Die so far. 

[jlp0209]

1 hour ago, Talon said:

 

Head over to the Lenovo discord channel. There are a bunch of pretty good owners in there. In there you will find the instructions on how to create a USB thumbdrive that a modder/bios guy created that allows you to access the hidden menus. When you use the USB you can get into the menus, and then when you reboot without it the menus are normal. This is good because you don't have to flash a custom BIOS and no worry about warranty. But like I said, you can tweak something you shouldn't and could end up with a brick or soft brick. 

 

Look at the memory die on the DIMM. You likely also have SK Hynix, looking at the part number that starts with "H" if you have an "A" in the middle of that sequence you have "A-Die". If you have an "M" you have "M-Die". Most A-Dies have AGBD as the model, regardless of brands. I've seen 4x different brands all use this version of A-Die so far. 

I found the github page and set up the USB drive (FAT format) and disabled secure boot. I keep getting boot failure errors and can't boot into it. The "instructions" if you can call it that, are extremely unclear in my mind. I created the cfg file as well. 

 

There are some really nice prices / discounts now, I think I priced a 4090 config on Lenovo's site for $2750 before tax. I am tempted to go into Microcenter to see if they'll price match, but since coupon codes are added on Lenovo's site I don't think they will match. Oh well, not returning it regardless. Nice score for those who are getting this price.