The Beast Returns - Alienware m18 - i9 13980HK 24c/RTX 4090 Mobile

[Maxware79]

They are aware of the complaints about the 300nits compared to other systems. I'm not sure if they will be changing anything in the near future though. 

 

[ssj92]

4 hours ago, Maxware79 said:

They are aware of the complaints about the 300nits compared to other systems. I'm not sure if they will be changing anything in the near future though. 

 

Are they aware of the sound system concerns vs x16 as well? m18 better have a sub if they want to call it an 18" =D

 

Personally, I can accept a 300 nit screen if it's a high quality screen with 100% adobergb color space, deep blacks, and good contrast (refresh rate too). 

 

I personally would be more critical on sound system. Most high end displays on laptops are 500 nits, some 600 nits. hdr is a different story. 

[1610ftw]

On 1/13/2023 at 9:58 AM, ssj92 said:

Wow I didn’t realize the Area-51m R2 only has 2 sodimm slots. I can do 128gb on my R1 (have 64gb right now). 
 

My X58 board was supposed to do 12gb originally, then it did 24gb thanks to 4gb dimms, now I’m at 48gb thanks to 8gb dimms. It can happen with ddr5 as well. I remember it being mentioned somewhere when ddr5 was announced that we would be getting higher density ram. 
 

 

clevo did have an 18.4” laptop, the x8100. Their first all bga laptop the x270 never came out as far as I know. Most of us went to Clevo for their upgradable laptops. Now that no one offer it, it’s down to what laptop offers everything one wants. 

 

Yes I know, the 51m R1 was the last Alienware with 4 sodimm slots, seems to be a thing of the past now.

I need more than 64GB now and I would not want to wait around for MAYBE 64GB dimms popping up and then they never arrive.

 

I am also not at all impressed with the shared TDP of 250W between GPU and CPU as per ultrabookreview, looks like for such a heavy system with only two dimm slots and a vapor chamber it should be able to do better than an MSI GT77 or GE78 that weigh about 2 lbs less:

 

https://www.ultrabookreview.com/60886-alienware-m18-m16/

On the Intel side, expect up to Intel Core i9-13980HX + RTX 4090 16GB configurations.

Alienware didn’t go into specific details on the power settings applied to the components here, and only mentioned up to 250W of crossload CPU + GPU power. That should translate into up to 175W TGP on the 4090/4080 models, with the rest going to the CPU, and I’d be surprised to see a higher-power GPU given what we already know from the other brands. Similar settings should be possible on both the m16 and the m18, but with arguably better thermals on the m18, due to its larger chassis.

[ssj92]

2 hours ago, 1610ftw said:

 

Yes I know, the 51m R1 was the last Alienware with 4 sodimm slots, seems to be a thing of the past now.

I need more than 64GB now and I would not want to wait around for MAYBE 64GB dimms popping up and then they never arrive.

 

I am also not at all impressed with the shared TDP of 250W between GPU and CPU as per ultrabookreview, looks like for such a heavy system with only two dimm slots and a vapor chamber it should be able to do better than an MSI GT77 or GE78 that weigh about 2 lbs less:

 

https://www.ultrabookreview.com/60886-alienware-m18-m16/

On the Intel side, expect up to Intel Core i9-13980HX + RTX 4090 16GB configurations.

Alienware didn’t go into specific details on the power settings applied to the components here, and only mentioned up to 250W of crossload CPU + GPU power. That should translate into up to 175W TGP on the 4090/4080 models, with the rest going to the CPU, and I’d be surprised to see a higher-power GPU given what we already know from the other brands. Similar settings should be possible on both the m16 and the m18, but with arguably better thermals on the m18, due to its larger chassis.

Just so you know, every single laptop at CES 2023 with RTX 4090 + i9 13980HX have a combined 250w TDP for the system. This is most likely a limitation set by Intel/nVidia. 

[1610ftw]

1 hour ago, ssj92 said:

Just so you know, every single laptop at CES 2023 with RTX 4090 + i9 13980HX have a combined 250w TDP for the system. This is most likely a limitation set by Intel/nVidia. 

Asus actually is 240W, so only MSI and Alienware seem to do 250W.

 

That Intel CPU can easily pull 200W so 250W certainly is not enough and I cannot believe Intel would limit total TDP like that. I would have expected Alienware to claim at least 275W if not 300W with that kind of weight and chassis.

[Maxware79]

Intel (as well as AMD and Nvidia) have complete say in everything that goes into systems and how they are powered and controlled. The system manufacturers have very little control. 

[ssj92]

^Exactly this. The Intel CPU in mobile has a 157W max TDP however, it looks like they are targeting less or only reach that with CPU only load. 

 

GPU will be 175w max and again with combined power it looks like gpu will probably do 175w and cpu will do 75w. 

[1610ftw]

47 minutes ago, ssj92 said:

^Exactly this. The Intel CPU in mobile has a 157W max TDP however, it looks like they are targeting less or only reach that with CPU only load. 

 

GPU will be 175w max and again with combined power it looks like gpu will probably do 175w and cpu will do 75w. 

 

The predecessors 12800HX and 12900HX with the same exact nominal max TDP could easily go up to 200W and more, I think I tested up to 220W.

You are right about 175 + 75 - they all max out the GPU while limiting the CPU to less than half of its nominal max TDP and less than 40% to its usable max TDP of 200W.

 

As for Intel deciding this it seems to me more like the gentleman's agreement between German car manufacturers Audi, BMW, Mercedes and VW who limit their high performance cars to a top speed of 250 km/h but then we will never know exactly if that was the case here. In any case 250W just isn't enough to do justice to both CPU and GPU when they are rated at 175 + 157 got a total of 332 which by the way is very close to the combined TDP that Clevo gave for the X170 (325W).

[ssj92]

8 minutes ago, 1610ftw said:

 

The predecessors 12800HX and 12900HX with the same exact nominal max TDP could easily go up to 200W and more, I think I tested up to 220W.

You are right about 175 + 75 - they all max out the GPU while limiting the CPU to less than half of its nominal max TDP and less than 40% to its usable max TDP of 200W.

 

As for Intel deciding this it seems to me more like the gentleman's agreement between German car manufacturers Audi, BMW, Mercedes and VW who limit their high performance cars to a top speed of 250 km/h but then we will never know exactly if that was the case here. In any case 250W just isn't enough to do justice to both CPU and GPU when they are rated at 175 + 157 got a total of 332 which by the way is very close to the combined TDP that Clevo gave for the X170 (325W).

The predecessors also have 8 less cores. These CPUs can be OC so I assume you can exceed the TDP on CPU only loads. The 75w limit comes in when GPU load goes up, which is how it is right now too. 

 

There are already 3 manufacturers (I think 5 total but 3 100% for sure) that have this same 250w total tdp for cpu/gpu. This is definitely something intel/nVidia probably came up with and enforce onto manufacturers. 

 

nVidia didn't want Clevo to make a 3080Ti MXM for X170TM-G, I wouldn't doubt they won't allow higher TDPs on these systems with agreement from Intel. 

 

yes it is stupid to give a 250w total tdp. My Area-51m can easily exceed 400w combined on 9900k/2080 and supports 660w thanks to 2x330w. 

 

Even my old m18xR2 can easily exceed 330w with XM CPU OC/SLI GPUs. 

 

From what I saw, no single laptop at CES has dual power adapter support. They will all probably be limited to 330w total system power. 

 

 

[1610ftw]

37 minutes ago, ssj92 said:

The predecessors also have 8 less cores. These CPUs can be OC so I assume you can exceed the TDP on CPU only loads. The 75w limit comes in when GPU load goes up, which is how it is right now too. 

 

There are already 3 manufacturers (I think 5 total but 3 100% for sure) that have this same 250w total tdp for cpu/gpu. This is definitely something intel/nVidia probably came up with and enforce onto manufacturers. 

 

nVidia didn't want Clevo to make a 3080Ti MXM for X170TM-G, I wouldn't doubt they won't allow higher TDPs on these systems with agreement from Intel. 

 

yes it is stupid to give a 250w total tdp. My Area-51m can easily exceed 400w combined on 9900k/2080 and supports 660w thanks to 2x330w. 

 

Even my old m18xR2 can easily exceed 330w with XM CPU OC/SLI GPUs. 

 

From what I saw, no single laptop at CES has dual power adapter support. They will all probably be limited to 330w total system power. 

 

 

 

Intel and Nvidia want to sell - obviously Nvidia can set a max TGP and Intel will not change their chips for manufacturers but I doubt that Intel will dictate to manufacturers that their CPUs can only get 75W in mixed usage - it makes Intel look bad when the GPU gets max power and their CPUs are operated at much less power than they need so why would they want that. In any case I cannot see Intel as the bad guy here in so far as they obviously allow up to 200W for their CPU - not like Nvidia who don't care how good your cooling is - even if you are below 60 degrees at max power you cannot supply their mobile cards with more than 175W which is ridiculous especially when dektop GPUs can be supplied with power way beyond their very generous TGP.

 

Yes things used to be better. I have a GT83 here right now that pulls about 400W I believe in a Time Spy run with GTX 1070 SLI - has two 240W power supplies and the bigger version with the 8950HK and 2 x GTX 1080 pulled up to around 500W iirc. I would guess that all the later SLI designs and then the first single CPU designs with the 9900K or 10900K all could sustain at least 300W and often more - one 330W power adapter was not enough back then.

 

About the current 250W: Which manufacturer is the third one, do you have a link? I have only seen MSI openly mentioning it, Alienware definitely is not very vocal about it.

 

 

 

[ssj92]

6 hours ago, 1610ftw said:

 

Intel and Nvidia want to sell - obviously Nvidia can set a max TGP and Intel will not change their chips for manufacturers but I doubt that Intel will dictate to manufacturers that their CPUs can only get 75W in mixed usage - it makes Intel look bad when the GPU gets max power and their CPUs are operated at much less power than they need so why would they want that. In any case I cannot see Intel as the bad guy here in so far as they obviously allow up to 200W for their CPU - not like Nvidia who don't care how good your cooling is - even if you are below 60 degrees at max power you cannot supply their mobile cards with more than 175W which is ridiculous especially when dektop GPUs can be supplied with power way beyond their very generous TGP.

 

Yes things used to be better. I have a GT83 here right now that pulls about 400W I believe in a Time Spy run with GTX 1070 SLI - has two 240W power supplies and the bigger version with the 8950HK and 2 x GTX 1080 pulled up to around 500W iirc. I would guess that all the later SLI designs and then the first single CPU designs with the 9900K or 10900K all could sustain at least 300W and often more - one 330W power adapter was not enough back then.

 

About the current 250W: Which manufacturer is the third one, do you have a link? I have only seen MSI openly mentioning it, Alienware definitely is not very vocal about it.

 

 

 

Do you have a 12800/12900HX system with a RTX 3070Ti or better gpu? As far as I know, this whole 'total TDP" thing has already been a thing since 12th gen /30 series. If you have one run prime95 on cpu and msi kombuster on gpu and see the tdp of both chips. They probably won't run full power. 

 

 

my 12700H/RTX 3060 have this limitation where one gets less power (intel cpu in this case) to allow max gpu performance. 

 

Go to stress test section: MSI Titan GT77 12UHS Laptop Review: Alder Lake-HX poster child with unhindered desktop-class performance - NotebookCheck.net Reviews

 

"he Titan GT77 uses MSI OverBoost for a combined 250 W load (75 W CPU + 175 W GPU) from both the CPU and the GPU depending on the scenario"

 

nothing new is happening with the new systems, this has been a thing this whole time 

 

This is the same thing that will happen with new systems. 250w total system power means if cpu has 100% load and gpu is 0% load, the cpu will still be able to use all of its power. It wouldn't make sense for intel to limit 13980HX power in cpu bound situations less than 12900HX especially with 8 additional cores. 

 

First set of laptops can be ordered Feb 1st and release Feb 8th so just a few more weeks before tests will be performed. 

 

You can bet I will be doing my own tests when I get my system.

 

Alienware openly states in their press materials (link in first post) about 250w total power. 

 

I can't find the info on third manufacturer right now but if I remember correctly it was razers system. 

 

 

[serpro69]

13 hours ago, ssj92 said:

First set of laptops can be ordered Feb 1st and release Feb 8th so just a few more weeks before tests will be performed. 

Oh really, is it going to be that soon? I'm regularly checking for new announcements , but have not seen these dates anywhere. Will be very nice if this is true.

[ssj92]

8 hours ago, serpro69 said:

Oh really, is it going to be that soon? I'm regularly checking for new announcements , but have not seen these dates anywhere. Will be very nice if this is true.

Some manufacturers yes but no sure on AW 

[serpro69]

14 hours ago, ssj92 said:

Some manufacturers yes but no sure on AW 

Ah, right, maybe I misunderstood what you meant .

Well yeah it will be interesting to see tests from other manufacturers if they come out earlier .

[ssj92]

@1610ftw looks like we are getting 48gb x2 (96gb) sodimms now?

 

Crucial Now Has 24 GB & 48 GB DDR5 Memory Options For Desktop & Laptop PCs (wccftech.com)

[1610ftw]

11 hours ago, ssj92 said:

@1610ftw looks like we are getting 48gb x2 (96gb) sodimms now?

 

Crucial Now Has 24 GB & 48 GB DDR5 Memory Options For Desktop & Laptop PCs (wccftech.com)

 

Indeed - Crucial hasn't been making my life easier with this announcement🙂

 

96 GB could almost be an acceptable amount of memory so the Alienware is on the radar again.

 

Next thing will be to find out why Alienware only mentions a maximum storage of 9TB - I can get more on most laptops with two SSD slots.

[ssj92]

I tried messaging crucial to see when I can order the 48gb so-dimms. 

 

about the 9tb thing...it sounds like typical AW selling their "certified" SSDs from the dell online store.

 

Should be no problem using 4x 8TB NVMe SSDs but we won't know that until someone tests it. 

 

All four ports should be 2280 size I think

[serpro69]

15 hours ago, ssj92 said:

All four ports should be 2280 size I think

 

I think I saw somewhere that only two (or three?) slots are 2280 size, which might also explain the weird "9GB upper limit" if the one or two slots are smaller (although even in this case it should be possible to have more than 9GB total, and you're most likely right that it's just them not testing compatibility with other drives).

I'm also hoping that all of them are 2280, but I don't think it'll be a deal-breaker for me if everything else checks out. I guess we'll find out soon enough anyways.

[ssj92]

Makes lots of sense if it was 2x 2280 & 2x 2230 but that will be disappointing. 

 

Right now you can do 2x 8TB in 2280 and 2 x 1TB in 2230 so total of 18TB. 

 

 

[1610ftw]

19 hours ago, ssj92 said:

Makes lots of sense if it was 2x 2280 & 2x 2230 but that will be disappointing. 

 

Right now you can do 2x 8TB in 2280 and 2 x 1TB in 2230 so total of 18TB. 

 

 

 

@DarginMahkum mentioned that previous Alienware laptops only allowed for single sides SSDs - in that case no SSD could be 8TB but I somehow doubt that they would be so stupid to mostly negate the benefit of having 4 SSD slots.

 

As for the 2230 slots in most use cases 2 2230 slots are worth less than a single 2280 slot that takes dual sided SSDs.

[DarginMahkum]

30 minutes ago, 1610ftw said:

@DarginMahkum mentioned that previous Alienware laptops only allowed for single sides SSDs - in that case no SSD could be 8TB but I somehow doubt that they would be sop stupid to mostly negate the benefit of having 4 SSD slots.

I called and asked Dell about this and had it confirmed from their internal tech team - double sided SSDs could not be installed (probably wouldn't fit) in the X17 2022.

[1610ftw]

1 hour ago, DarginMahkum said:

I called and asked Dell about this and had it confirmed from their internal tech team - double sided SSDs could not be installed (probably wouldn't fit) in the X17 2022.

 

As this is an m chassis it will hopefully turn out to be thick enough to allow for double sided SSDs.

 

[1610ftw]

Does anybody know if this will again have the rubberized surfaces that Dell likes to use?

My lightly used palm rest in the 7760 already starts to look pretty bad while the plastic / metal surface in Clevos and MSI laptops hold up much better - hate that rubber stuff.

 

I would probably put something on that if I got another laptop with it, I think brother @ssj92is doing that, too?

[ssj92]

9 hours ago, 1610ftw said:

Does anybody know if this will again have the rubberized surfaces that Dell likes to use?

My lightly used palm rest in the 7760 already starts to look pretty bad while the plastic / metal surface in Clevos and MSI laptops hold up much better - hate that rubber stuff.

 

I would probably put something on that if I got another laptop with it, I think brother @ssj92is doing that, too?

My Area-51m R1 seems to be holding up really well. It has a rubberized surface. 

 

I know my M4800 & all previous Alienwares (M14x/M17x/M18x etc) all have palm rest becoming sticky but newer laptops (Aw14, 17, 18) seem to be much better and the newest gen (Area-51m) seems to be really good (mine is 4 years old and still feels perfect). 

 

We will have to wait and see what the newer m series has. My X series also has rubber surface it seems but it's too soon to judge it.  

[ssj92]

I added some new pics from the reviewer's guide. 

 

If the i9 13980HX is really missing then that is a disappointment.