Janktop IV Sneak Peek (open source MINI ITX Laptop)

[StripeySnake]

*The purpose of this inital post is just to tease a project that will be done in the next couple of weeks, I will make a much more extensive post when It's all finished*

 

I figured I'd share a project with y'all that I've been working on for nearly a year now. It's a "laptop" that uses standard full size Mini-ITX, a dual slot 230mm GPU (meaning 2 fans), Softline watercooling, and integrated peripherals. (screen and keyboard from M17x R4)
The downsides of this machine is that it will have no battery, and be very large and heavy. (although when you take the lack of a power brick into account its not too much heavier than say an M18x) Additionally, it does not have a trackpad, although it would be fairly easy to add, as I did not see the value in doing such for a machine that will always be used with a mouse anyway. The main chassis is constructed from one lasercut sheet of Polycarbonate, with 3d printed parts bolted to it. This should give it decently high durability, and if you need to replace a chassis element it is very modular, leaving room to even do as much as design custom chassis elements, such as a front panel with room for a full set of speakers. Additionally, it shouldn't be too hard to modify the original M17x R4 display assembly to fit more modern displays, and with an HDMI controller board, they should be able to be used too. (Yay high referesh rate)

 

This is the current/ final part layout, flipped upside down. As you can see I'm still printing most of the large Pieces. Based off of rough , calculations, it should have roughly the radiator capacity of 2.5 x a single 120mm rad, and about 33 CFM of airflow, just for the CPU. The GPU will use it's own stock cooler.
P.S. Yes, I know it's going to be a nightmare to cable manage.

EDIT: The prototype is completed and running. You can find info on it on page 4/5

[FredSRichardson]

This is an awesome project.  I was really wondering what the limits are for building a portable mini itx system with a laptop form factor.  Can't wait to see what the final system looks like!

[StripeySnake]

I should have it done within 2 weeks to less as of now. A big focus in this build was compatibility, that's why I went with dual fan and slot GPUS, and softline watercooling, as both systems require little to no modification to upgrade and swap out. I'll be releasing all of my STL files when the project is done as well, so if anyone wants to build their own that's pretty awesome. The only part that's basically completely proprietary is the M17x R3/4 Display assembly, but I might make further revisions to support different assemblies if people want me to. Even so, you should be able to mount whatever display you want with a little modification to the assembly, and the backlight powered alien head logo is a plus, as you can cut it out and replace it with whatever you want. I've currently gotten all systems tested and working exept the keyboard controller and i'm still printing the structure itself. When I'm done printing and assembling, the project will be complete.

 

P.S. This is what the chassis would look like on it's own (For the most part this image is old) from a bottom view.

[FredSRichardson]

Well, I can't wait to see how this turns out.  What do you estimate the W x L x H dimensions are like?  Is the box about 3" thick or so?

 

Great work!

[StripeySnake]

It has almost exactly the same footprint as an M17x, except for the extended rear end which adds an inch or 2 to the back. Thickness will be a little under 3 inches, counting the display. Internal chassis clearance is slightly above 50mm, which leaves room to comfortably fit both 1u and mini ITX components. 

16.5 long x 14.5 wide x about 2.75 thick

I'm not sure on weight, but I'd estimate in the 20 pound range. Keep in mind that it has an integrated PSU however, and many bulky laptops require several additional pounds of AC adapter to be lugged around, while this only requires a basic desktop pc power cable.

[FredSRichardson]

Weight doesn't worry me these days, but size can be an issue.  Honestly those dimensions sound pretty good. I also appreciate how this is a hard design problem with cooling and power considerations among other things.

 

Do you think making a chassis that can take some pressure would be difficult?  Would it help to replace some parts of the chassis with aluminum? (that is once you're totally happy with the overall design - 3D printing is just too good an approach I think).

 

 

[Eban]

Just my lifestyle I do not want a desktop.

But a thick laptop always on AC that is component upgradable; that is worth something!

I really want to see your final product. Awesome idea 

 

I was thinking clevo for my next laptop, but your idea interests me even more!

[StripeySnake]

Actually structural integrity shouldn't be too bad when it's done. The 60% infill 3d printed parts are very ridgid and strong, and many of them fall perpindicular to the more flexible polycarb. Additionally, polycarbonate, although flexible is extremely durable. 

here's a sneak peek at the chassis with about half of the printed segments. Keep in mind this picture is from a bad angle and lighting so looks much worse that it would normally.

[aldarxt]

21 hours ago, StripeySnake said:

Actually structural integrity shouldn't be too bad when it's done. The 60% infill 3d printed parts are very ridgid and strong, and many of them fall perpindicular to the more flexible polycarb. Additionally, polycarbonate, although flexible is extremely durable. 

here's a sneak peek at the chassis with about half of the printed segments. Keep in mind this picture is from a bad angle and lighting so looks much worse that it would normally.

Looks like something that goes under the hood of an EV Formula 1 Race car, can you make another 1 and mail it to somebody?

[StripeySnake]

I'm planning to release all the CAD files for free so that anyone with access to the right machines or enough money can build their own, but I would definitely consider putting together kits if it all goes well. Such a kit would include basically every universal part in the machine, meaning not only the structure, but the dual 40mm radiators, display, keyboard, fans and power supply such. This would probably end up costing around $700 (rough estimate), but keep in mind that would be 80% of the build and all you would need additionally would be A motherboard, CPU, RAM, storage and a GPU, as well as waterblock pump and tubing of your choosing. While that's a lot for a desktop build, it could add up to being pretty cheap for a laptop, especially when GPU prices go back down. The watercooling should be especially nice, as you can use any mini ITX board with it regardless of socket type or orientation, which would be a problem if I used a custom air cooler. 

Additionally, it should be taken into account that the case uses Flex-ATX power supplies that come in 350 watts and 500 watts, although some specific server psus with some custom breakout boards could also be used, skyrocketing potential wattage up to 1100 or more. The GPU slot should be able to fit a max of a 3070 provided you find a very small one, and the CPU cooling should be enough for a ryzen 5 bare minium, and maybe even good enough to handle as much as a ryzen 9, with fans on full blast.

[FredSRichardson]

That is amazing.  I guess the water cooling worries me a little - it would be a fairly big bummer if a leak sprung, but maybe that isn't too likely?  But yeah a desktop 3070 and ryzen CPU sounds pretty awesome.  Should out perform a lot of high end laptops I think.

[Eban]

7 hours ago, FredSRichardson said:

That is amazing.  I guess the water cooling worries me a little - it would be a fairly big bummer if a leak sprung, but maybe that isn't too likely?  But yeah a desktop 3070 and ryzen CPU sounds pretty awesome.  Should out perform a lot of high end laptops I think.

 

Exactly what I was thinking. Performance wise I can not get a "big brand" name laptop with the specifications I want. All this thin and light with crippled BGA gpu garbage etc.

 

If @StripeySnake were to make a kit available (With an quick and dirty  'possible parts list'!?!  (I haven't built a desktop in a lot of years and just I'm not up on current desktop specs)) it would be a real contender for my next pc dollar$ 

 

[StripeySnake]

This is very rough, but let's say with all brand new parts:

$130 motherboard
$350 5800x

$70 16gb DDR4-3200

$80 Waterblock/pump combo

$35 fittings

$15 Tubing 

$100- 1tb SSD

that's $780 total, lets round up to 900 to account for tax and such.
Add the roughly 700 dollars for the case and that's $1600 without the GPU. Counting Awful GPU prices, let's add the Zotac 3070 that should be able to fit the case with some slight alteration, which goes for $900 brand new these days. Now we're up to $2500, plus 100 more for the additional price of getting a bigger psu in the case, so a final cost of roughly $2600. That should get you similar performance to a laptop with a 12900HK and an RTX 3080 Ti. (laptop 30 series cards are very weak compared to their desktop counterparts)

For comparison, a brand new AW x17 R2 equipped with 12900HK, 3080 Ti, 16gb ram and 1tb SSD will run you $3550 without tax. The 12900HK has a small leg up in terms of performance on the 5800x, but that it's very possible cooling discrepancies could make up that gap. We'll have to see how well the watercooling handles my 2600x and further more powerful CPUs. 

Final comparison, the roughly max spec Janktop costs a nearly $1000 less than and Alienware equivalent using new parts. The only major discrepancy I can find between performance of the two is I didn't spec the Janktop with a high refresh rate display, whereas the Alienware comes with a nice 300+ hz refresh rate. 
In terms of ergonomics/usability, the x17 is obviously going to be much thinner, lighter, and actually have a battery. I'll have to see, but the Janktop has a potential to 1 up it in raw cooling capacity however. The Janktop is designed for very thick old traditional keyboards, like the M17x R4 keyboard for example, which definitely gives it an ergonomics head up there, although the height of the palmrest due to thickness may be somewhat uncomfortable/ need some sort of pad. The x17 will also certainly be much sturdier proportionate to it's size, although the Janktop has the benifit that every single part is completely replaceable, and all the cosmetic 3d printed parts can be replaced and reconfigured very easily and cheaply. Both options are pretty expensive, but I am pretty happy with how my project holds up. I might also suggest going with a 3060 and 5600x or so, and then upgrade the whole thing a few years in the future. 

 

 

P.S.My prototype build cost around $1300, but it's specs are very barebones and core components are used. I hope this helps.

[Eban]

17 hours ago, StripeySnake said:

This is very rough, but let's say with all brand new parts:

$130 motherboard
$350 5800x

$70 16gb DDR4-3200

$80 Waterblock/pump combo

$35 fittings

$15 Tubing 

$100- 1tb SSD

that's $780 total, lets round up to 900 to account for tax and such.
Add the roughly 700 dollars for the case and that's $1600 without the GPU. Counting Awful GPU prices, let's add the Zotac 3070 that should be able to fit the case with some slight alteration, which goes for $900 brand new these days. Now we're up to $2500, plus 100 more for the additional price of getting a bigger psu in the case, so a final cost of roughly $2600. That should get you similar performance to a laptop with a 12900HK and an RTX 3080 Ti. (laptop 30 series cards are very weak compared to their desktop counterparts)

For comparison, a brand new AW x17 R2 equipped with 12900HK, 3080 Ti, 16gb ram and 1tb SSD will run you $3550 without tax. The 12900HK has a small leg up in terms of performance on the 5800x, but that it's very possible cooling discrepancies could make up that gap. We'll have to see how well the watercooling handles my 2600x and further more powerful CPUs. 

Final comparison, the roughly max spec Janktop costs a nearly $1000 less than and Alienware equivalent using new parts. The only major discrepancy I can find between performance of the two is I didn't spec the Janktop with a high refresh rate display, whereas the Alienware comes with a nice 300+ hz refresh rate. 
In terms of ergonomics/usability, the x17 is obviously going to be much thinner, lighter, and actually have a battery. I'll have to see, but the Janktop has a potential to 1 up it in raw cooling capacity however. The Janktop is designed for very thick old traditional keyboards, like the M17x R4 keyboard for example, which definitely gives it an ergonomics head up there, although the height of the palmrest due to thickness may be somewhat uncomfortable/ need some sort of pad. The x17 will also certainly be much sturdier proportionate to it's size, although the Janktop has the benifit that every single part is completely replaceable, and all the cosmetic 3d printed parts can be replaced and reconfigured very easily and cheaply. Both options are pretty expensive, but I am pretty happy with how my project holds up. I might also suggest going with a 3060 and 5600x or so, and then upgrade the whole thing a few years in the future. 

 

 

P.S.My prototype build cost around $1300, but it's specs are very barebones and core components are used. I hope this helps.

 

Sorry I have given you the wrong impression.

What I ment by 'possible parts list' is more a brand/combo of motherboard/cpu/water block that would fit into your Janktop form factor without too much modification.

 

ie gigabyte mobo/intel cpu/nameabrand water thingo

Asus board /ryzen cpu/adifferntbrand water block....??

What is the brand of motherboard/cpu type in the first picture? What is the mobo/cpu combo you would really like to have??

I literally am ignorant of current desktop hardware......but that being said, dont spend a lot of time on a reply. Finish your test type and determine if a kit is feasible. 

Im on this forum so its a good guess I can play around with hardware and I can always get advice on a parts list here.

 

EDIT: Sorry I was just re-reading your previous posts and you have already answered some of my questions about mobo/cpu. Ignore this for now, I will ask specifics once you have a solid "yes we can" 

Also speakers? Does your have audio?

[StripeySnake]

Ah, I get your question now. To start things off, any standard MINI-ITX motherboard should fit comfortably. By extension, any CPU that can be socketed in mini ITX should work as well. Ram is limited to low profile DIMMS, such as my Corsair Vengeance LPX. From there, it should fit any GPU that is roughly 230 MM or less long, and that occupies 2 slots or less. (2.3 slot coolers are too large). The power supply uses the Flex-ATX standard, which comes in up to 600 watts, although has potential to be modified for 1U server PSUs as well. Since the chassis has a bit more room than a 1U server, 1u waterblocks, pumps and so forth should all fit no problem. One known issue so far is that my GPU slot will not fit gpus that are very "tall", in that they extend beyond the top of their 2 slot i/o panel vertically. Currently the case supports around 10/15mm of that verticality, but to use the only 3070 I could find that should fit, I would have to make a modified GPU slot with a bit more room, which I plan to do down the road. The case is designed in such a way that the GPU can draw it's own air and use it's own stock cooler. If a gpu was watercooled, it could fit up to a 3090 theoretically, with the caveat that I have no idea how you would cool it or supply it with enough power. That said, the CPU is basically limited to watercooling only, based off of the shape of the test. You could get away with some low profile cpu coolers possibly, but cooling capacity would be absolutely terrible. So all in all, it has as good if not better compatibility and most very small mini ITX cases, and should support the latest CPUs for years to come, as well as GPUs as long as they do not continue to all get bigger.
As for your final question, my prototype will not have speakers for now as I always use hadphones, but it wouldn't be hard to whip up a modified front panel and palmrest design for integrated vertical and front firing speakers similar to an old alienware. If you use an HDMI to LVDS/eDP controller as I did, you can siphon off the HDMI's audio output for an internal jack, and connect your speakers there.

[FredSRichardson]

I know a few people have built "briefcase" computer builds.  I've seen pictures on reddit but I can't quite figure out how cooling works.  I pasted a link to one below.  In that case though your computer is a bag as opposed to a computer build that could conceivably fit inside a bag.  Briefcase computing has a bunch of options on the commercial side - if any of them support a GPU I'm betting that would be in a big enclosure.  I briefly considered getting one of these:  http://www.ipctechnology.com/index.html

 

 

 

 

 

[FredSRichardson]

Obviously I'm a total n00b with this stuff, but I did come across the "small form factor" community wiki here:  https://wiki.sff.media/   It looks like they are really targeting living room compute options.  I have yet to see a really nice slim case with built in display and keyboard like what you're working on.

[StripeySnake]

Briefcase builds are dope, and something that definitely inspired me some, but I have yet to encounter one with all that good cooling or part compatibility. The main goal with this build is to achieve something as close to an actual laptop as possible, with as much cooling as possible, and very good part compatibility. That briefcase PC is very cool, but lacks in integrated keyboard, and the CPU cooling looks a bit mediocre, which is a common problem in small form factor. I definitely got here by studying such custom builds like that one, but I'm trying to create something someone else could feasibly create and even modify, sort of the like Caliburn project by Captain Slug. 

[FredSRichardson]

Yeah, I figured you'd be steeped in this type of build culture - very cool thing to be into!  I'm with you in terms of design criteria - I'm really surprised there isn't a single low profile "SFF" enclosure that comes with an attached LCD let alone keyboard! I did see some cool enclosures - like the NFC S4M - but having to travel with a keyboard and display isn't what I'm looking for either! 😃

[FredSRichardson]

I had to look up Captain Slug's Caliburn project and I see where you're coming from.  Open source design is a very cool thing.  I haven't gotten into 3D printing yet - that's kind of on my todo list though...

[Eban]

7 hours ago, StripeySnake said:

Briefcase builds are dope, and something that definitely inspired me some, but I have yet to encounter one with all that good cooling or part compatibility. The main goal with this build is to achieve something as close to an actual laptop as possible, with as much cooling as possible, and very good part compatibility. That briefcase PC is very cool, but lacks in integrated keyboard, and the CPU cooling looks a bit mediocre, which is a common problem in small form factor. I definitely got here by studying such custom builds like that one, but I'm trying to create something someone else could feasibly create and even modify, sort of the like Caliburn project by Captain Slug. 

I like the briefcase builds but without a screen and keyboard its a no deal. Your Janktop on other hand I'm about 90% certain I will buy a kit. It checks all the boxes of what I'm looking for. Lenovo, MSI, HP, Clevo (and yes even Alienware) can go suck it! I am not buying BGA thin crap if your Janktop is available.

 

I also checked out the Caliburn, nice.....If some armoursmith could just make a working Tikhar from Metro Exodus 

[StripeySnake]

I'm thinking I will make a kit as long as I can find a way to get access to a 3d printer. I've been able to borrow one of my school's ultimakers for the prototype, but I'd probably have to find some way to rent one to do all the printing I need, as ordering prints is very expensive.
P.S. here's some kind of early concept art that might shed some light on the final aesthetic I'm going for.

[Eban]

2 hours ago, StripeySnake said:

I'm thinking I will make a kit as long as I can find a way to get access to a 3d printer. I've been able to borrow one of my school's ultimakers for the prototype, but I'd probably have to find some way to rent one to do all the printing I need, as ordering prints is very expensive.
 

 

Thats why I would be interested in a kit. 3D printing is not something I want to play with just yet. 

I thought yours would look something like this xbox laptop (except with a keyboard and 17.3" screen)

 

 

I have been doing some research and a thin mini ITX with external power brick might also cut down on thickness/weight if combined with M2. to pcie riser card adapter...??

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32885396067.html 

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003070797631.html

 

Just an idea after I found thin mini boards dont have pcie slots and the whole point of this build it to fit desktop power into laptop portability.

 

Keep up the good work 

[StripeySnake]

I did consider thin mini ITX and such, but the issue is that performance and compatibility are very limited, as thin min itx boards are rare, lack PCIE 16x, and often use laptop CPUs. At the cost of thickness, I decided to go with standard mini itx for compatibility's sake, as well as to keep the ability to use a good GPU.

[FredSRichardson]

I'm sure you don't need more ideas 😉  But this proof-of-concept was useful to me to see the type of puzzle you have to solve to get all the components under the hood.  Even the producer of this video admits you shouldn't do what he did! 🤣  Definitely not travel worthy even with a single monitor (and it's huge).  I'm not really sure how he scores as far as cooling goes, but it looks like it has liquid cooling...?