Raptor Lake HX Mobile Thread

[Kataphract]

I have engineering sample myself for some time, and with good enough noise-cancelling headphones, it can sustain 150W+ for 30 minutes in my unit, never dropping bellow 33K in Cinebench R23 :- ). 
It's a thing of a magic.
I'll have to ask when can one talk about everything. Might be first time in decade I find laptop a viable alternative to desktop for power users (well, noise-cancelling headphones wearing power-users, both my dog and son were scared when the test suite run...)

Edited January 17, 2023 by Reciever

[1610ftw]

1 hour ago, Kataphract said:

I have engineering sample myself for some time, and with good enough noise-cancelling headphones, it can sustain 150W+ for 30 minutes in my unit, never dropping bellow 33K in Cinebench R23 :- ). 
It's a thing of a magic.
I'll have to ask when can one talk about everything. Might be first time in decade I find laptop a viable alternative to desktop for power users (well, noise-cancelling headphones wearing power-users, both my dog and son were scared shitless when the test suite run...)

 

150+ sounds about right for the Titan chassis when you get a decent one. I had one that could only sustain 125W over 10 minutes and another one that could sustain 160W. Of course noise is rather horrible but that comes with the territory I guess. Not sure how much power could be sustained with some good but also reasonably quiet external cooling solution and some optimization to the cooling / vent system. Maybe 110W to 130W.

 

 

 

[ssj92]

5 hours ago, Kataphract said:

I have engineering sample myself for some time, and with good enough noise-cancelling headphones, it can sustain 150W+ for 30 minutes in my unit, never dropping bellow 33K in Cinebench R23 :- ). 
It's a thing of a magic.
I'll have to ask when can one talk about everything. Might be first time in decade I find laptop a viable alternative to desktop for power users (well, noise-cancelling headphones wearing power-users, both my dog and son were scared when the test suite run...)

As far as I know, embargo has already been lifted. It's nVidia's GPUs holding back people from discussing laptops but CPU wise it's been lifted. 

 

Will be curious if OC works and it can sustain the OC. 

 

Hoping XTU or TS helps keep clocks up on load and thermals are only limiting factor, but we will see. 

[Tenoroon]

11 hours ago, Etern4l said:

Yeah, I have found his reviews lacking in depth before.

His old reviews were alright, but have been noticeably lacking in quality ever since Covid. He also started to boom then and started taking more sponsored BS. Great guy, lot's of potential, but too surface level nowadays.

[Etern4l]

46 minutes ago, Tenoroon said:

His old reviews were alright, but have been noticeably lacking in quality ever since Covid. He also started to boom then and started taking more sponsored BS. Great guy, lot's of potential, but too surface level nowadays.

 

I remember discovering him via his "mouse for Quake" reviews - he clearly knew what he was talking about then. Also on the plus side were his reviews of things like eGPUs, which more mainstream reviewers don't bother with.

[Kataphract]

4 hours ago, ssj92 said:

As far as I know, embargo has already been lifted. It's nVidia's GPUs holding back people from discussing laptops but CPU wise it's been lifted. 

 

Will be curious if OC works and it can sustain the OC. 

 

Hoping XTU or TS helps keep clocks up on load and thermals are only limiting factor, but we will see. 

Ah good to know, since my unit doesn't have nVidia 4xxx anyway :- ) It's Titan GT77 with 13950HX, but 3080ti.
It's just funny seeing it beat my oldest Threadripper (2990WX) and come close to half the performance of my current one (3990X), or rather even 2/3 since I have to run my 3990X without SMT(/HT) to perform properly across whole software suites I use.

 

 

8 hours ago, 1610ftw said:

 

150+ sounds about right for the Titan chassis when you get a decent one. I had one that could only sustain 125W over 10 minutes and another one that could sustain 160W. Of course noise is rather horrible but that comes with the territory I guess. Not sure how much power could be sustained with some good but also reasonably quiet external cooling solution and some optimization to the cooling / vent system. Maybe 110W to 130W.

 

 

 

I was positively surprised on this, esp. after the Dell 7670, which my wife will now use instead since she doesn't need to render as much.
I still think the Titan could use even more robust cooling. The chassis is rather slim for what this laptop is and I liked seeing the massive vapour chamber on upcoming Razer Blade 18 (which is still way too slim and will lack in fans department instead).

I kind of hoped the Titan would be 18" display too, but it looks to be absolutely identical in most way to the Alder-Lake HX one. 

[1610ftw]

10 hours ago, Kataphract said:

I was positively surprised on this, esp. after the Dell 7670, which my wife will now use instead since she doesn't need to render as much.
I still think the Titan could use even more robust cooling. The chassis is rather slim for what this laptop is and I liked seeing the massive vapour chamber on upcoming Razer Blade 18 (which is still way too slim and will lack in fans department instead).

I kind of hoped the Titan would be 18" display too, but it looks to be absolutely identical in most way to the Alder-Lake HX one. 

 

Looks like Dell has rather limited staying power this generation and unless they change their heatpipe / cooling assembly I do not see that change. The Titan is currently among the best solutions but really too slim for a Titan and it is so deep that it is not easy to handle anyway despite its rather light weight. Another pound of heatpipes and some added height would have helped.

 

I think that for such a top chassis MSI did not want to reinvent the Wheel so quickly, maybe we will get some kind of 18" GT89 with the next generation and a jump to at least 300W system TDP would be in order to justify the Titan name.

 

I also do not get the hysteria that laptops cannot have more than one power supply as that is rather inconsequential on the road as one could for example have 2 x 240W when stationary and 1 x 240W on the road or alternatively use one of those new 330W GAN chargers instead. Not to forget that in the next generation there could probably also be 240W USB-C charging. Lots of options there and only idiot reviewers will pretend that this is any kind of issue when it can be handled with the necessary flexibility. 

 

Rather disappointed that MSI went from 4 to 3 SSDs slots in the new GT77 - that is not helpful and imo not necessary given the area they have available. Instead we get a 1000 nits LED display - for those who like to be blinded when working indoors I guess - and probably again no QHD option.

[Kataphract]

Agree at all points with you. I also thought the 4th SSD was just hiding somewhere after I finally opened the chassis after 20 minutes of not trying to rip card reader at same time :- ). Kept looking around for good another 5 minutes.

Still, it has 4 true SODIMM slots, which not even the Dell has (thankfully Intel ordered the Dell with 128GB CAMM for which I would never pay myself that much, it's like 3 times what 4x32GB SODIMM DDR5 costs right now). Given how thick the "performance" chassis of 7670 is, it could fit a bit more inside and likewise, no reason the Titan has to be this slim since the slab proportions don't even fit into my old 18,4" laptop bag :- ).

Right now they all probably try as hard to not make it look like the old mothership class 5KG laptops, but the djinn is out of the bottle and now that the class resurfaced, I think incremental updates will over next 5 years bring it back to same level :- ). I've seen it with bicycles, cars.. it's inevitable. I am here all for it!

I wonder if I tried digital nomading with this and brought it to cafe on vacation if they would call police on me. Fashion or real one.

[1610ftw]

6 hours ago, Kataphract said:

Agree at all points with you. I also thought the 4th SSD was just hiding somewhere after I finally opened the chassis after 20 minutes of not trying to rip card reader at same time :- ). Kept looking around for good another 5 minutes.

Still, it has 4 true SODIMM slots, which not even the Dell has (thankfully Intel ordered the Dell with 128GB CAMM for which I would never pay myself that much, it's like 3 times what 4x32GB SODIMM DDR5 costs right now). Given how thick the "performance" chassis of 7670 is, it could fit a bit more inside and likewise, no reason the Titan has to be this slim since the slab proportions don't even fit into my old 18,4" laptop bag :- ).

Right now they all probably try as hard to not make it look like the old mothership class 5KG laptops, but the djinn is out of the bottle and now that the class resurfaced, I think incremental updates will over next 5 years bring it back to same level :- ). I've seen it with bicycles, cars.. it's inevitable. I am here all for it!

I wonder if I tried digital nomading with this and brought it to cafe on vacation if they would call police on me. Fashion or real one.

 

It is a shame about the 4th SSD - I was hoping for a Titan 88 with more of everything not a 77 with one SSD less and still no QHD display and no 18".

 

The Titan has quite stupid proportions as I have yet to find a laptop sleeve that is deep enough for it - would have been much better if it had been 1.5cm wider and 1cm less deep as then it could also easily have accommodated the new 18" screens.

 

Imo CAMM is a promising concept in so far as with one form factor we would get the option for 128GB memory in a lot more laptops than now. Prices have to go down though and I would never have considered a Dell with their current highway robbery pricing. I am sure they will go down at some point now that it looks like we will see it in other laptops as early as next year:

 

https://www.notebookcheck.net/SO-DIMM-laptop-RAM-form-factor-to-soon-be-replaced-with-Dell-developed-CAMM-standard.682337.0.html

 

As for the thick Dell it is a very interesting idea in so far as it would allow for thicker laptops with little hardware changes if more manufacturers would go that route - imagine a thicker GT77 for example with more massive heatpipes or possibly also a vapor chamber design - just get a new bottom cover and upgrade the cooling!

 

I could also see the added vertical headroom being used for stacked SSDs like HP does it - very smart concept but that would also necessitate a different mainboard whereas with a taller cooling section one could get away with just the cooling hardware and a new bottom cover - something that might even be done as an aftermarket solution.

 

 

 

[Sniffy]

On 1/19/2023 at 2:19 AM, 1610ftw said:

 

It is a shame about the 4th SSD - I was hoping for a Titan 88 with more of everything not a 77 with one SSD less and still no QHD display and no 18".

 

The Titan has quite stupid proportions as I have yet to find a laptop sleeve that is deep enough for it - would have been much better if it had been 1.5cm wider and 1cm less deep as then it could also easily have accommodated the new 18" screens.

 

Imo CAMM is a promising concept in so far as with one form factor we would get the option for 128GB memory in a lot more laptops than now. Prices have to go down though and I would never have considered a Dell with their current highway robbery pricing. I am sure they will go down at some point now that it looks like we will see it in other laptops as early as next year:

 

https://www.notebookcheck.net/SO-DIMM-laptop-RAM-form-factor-to-soon-be-replaced-with-Dell-developed-CAMM-standard.682337.0.html

 

As for the thick Dell it is a very interesting idea in so far as it would allow for thicker laptops with little hardware changes if more manufacturers would go that route - imagine a thicker GT77 for example with more massive heatpipes or possibly also a vapor chamber design - just get a new bottom cover and upgrade the cooling!

 

I could also see the added vertical headroom being used for stacked SSDs like HP does it - very smart concept but that would also necessitate a different mainboard whereas with a taller cooling section one could get away with just the cooling hardware and a new bottom cover - something that might even be done as an aftermarket solution.

 

 

 

 

Yeah the GT77 dimensions are quite strange. They made it thinner but kept the depth. I think it would be easier to manage if it were thicker instead, but less deep. But I always use external monitors so am not bothered by the screen size.

 

On 1/18/2023 at 7:53 AM, Kataphract said:

Ah good to know, since my unit doesn't have nVidia 4xxx anyway :- ) It's Titan GT77 with 13950HX, but 3080ti.
It's just funny seeing it beat my oldest Threadripper (2990WX) and come close to half the performance of my current one (3990X), or rather even 2/3 since I have to run my 3990X without SMT(/HT) to perform properly across whole software suites I use.

 

Yep the latest CPUs are much more impressive than the GPUs. If you'd have said we'd have 24C/32T CPUs in laptops a few years ago I wouldn't have believed it.

 

For your GPU, the 16GB 4090 is looking like the only real upgrade from a 16GB 3080 Ti. Even then I don't know how much faster it will be. This upcoming generation of laptop GPUs is the worst I can remember.

[1610ftw]

1 hour ago, Sniffy said:

 

Yeah the GT77 dimensions are quite strange. They made it thinner but kept the depth. I think it would be easier to manage if it were thicker instead, but less deep. But I always use external monitors so am not bothered by the screen size.

 

Thinner and a bit more narrow, too? In any case only the old Alienware 18 and the GT76 are as deep and it is just the GT83 that is even a bit deeper by 8mm.

Due to the limited width the GT77 looks almost square though so that is a strange look and not very practical either.

 

 

1 hour ago, Sniffy said:

Yep the latest CPUs are much more impressive than the GPUs. If you'd have said we'd have 24C/32T CPUs in laptops a few years ago I wouldn't have believed it.

 

For your GPU, the 16GB 4090 is looking like the only real upgrade from a 16GB 3080 Ti. Even then I don't know how much faster it will be. This upcoming generation of laptop GPUs is the worst I can remember.

 

Indeed, no complaints from me about the CPU by itself, I just wish it was socketed.

 

The GPU will probably give us the biggest jump in performance since the jump from GT980 to the GT1080.

What is disappointing is that it could have been a lot better if Nvidia had offered the 4090 desktop chip and more power for laptops.

 

[ssj92]

AMD 7845 CPU performance. (Can't wait to see 7945 * 13980HX):

 

[ssj92]

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/5201vs5022/Intel-i9-13980HX-vs-Intel-i9-13900K

 

Not bad! We will see sustained load though since this is just a benchmark. 

[1610ftw]

Highest CB R23 core so far at more than 37K - probably really good silicon to achieve this at only 200W.

I am VERY astonished about only 92^C - this is either an exceptional specimen or some added cooling is going on there.

 

MSI Titan GT77 HX 13980HX and "4090" GPU

 

 

Say what you will but Intel is putting Nvidia to shame with the performance that they allow us to have in laptops.

 

[MyPC8MyBrain]

17 hours ago, 1610ftw said:

Highest CB R23 core so far at more than 37K - probably really good silicone

impressive indeed, i have seen the difference a good silicon makes first hand,
id say this is a combination of good bin plus a solid and stable undervolt due to it being a good bin,
combined with the ability to buffer the system with fan control and maybe the cold outdoors whether? 😉

i haven't really stressed tested my current rock solid cpu bin, it is still using factory thermal paste,
with previous unsettled bins i was able to push up to 26k in CB23, i think my current bin can make even +27k properly prepped, seem to be a solid 30% (rounding) increase from just the 12950HX, at 40k - 45k that's current gen desktop cpu score territory,

 

[Etern4l]

18 hours ago, 1610ftw said:

Highest CB R23 core so far at more than 37K - probably really good silicon to achieve this at only 200W.

I am VERY astonished about only 92^C - this is either an exceptional specimen or some added cooling is going on there.

 

MSI Titan GT77 HX 13980HX and "4090" GPU

 

 

Say what you will but Intel is putting Nvidia to shame with the performance that they allow us to have in laptops.

 

 

I don't believe it. Looks like an LN2 hack if not bare faced photoshop. Median CB23 score is around 30k for this CPU. 

 

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-Core-i9-13980HX-Processor-Benchmarks-and-Specs.675757.0.html

[MyPC8MyBrain]

17 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

LN2 hack

with LN id expect temps to be in the negative side of temps not ranging in the plus 92c,

not too far fetched i think, if he buffered his hardware with fans blasting full throttle for 10-15 min prior benching at around 0c ambient temps (aka outdoor) these temps do make some sense,

  

17 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

Median CB23 score is around 30k for this CPU.

i think that's a very low median range with additional 8 cores,

12950HX does 26k, you inferring 5% increase from previous gen with 8 less cores?

[Etern4l]

17 minutes ago, MyPC8MyBrain said:

with LN id expect temps to be in the negative side of temps not ranging in the plus 92c,

 

Where do you see the temps on the screenshot again? It just shows CB23, right?

 

17 minutes ago, MyPC8MyBrain said:

i think that's a very low median range with additional 8 cores,

12950HX does 26k, you inferring 5% increase from previous gen with 8 less cores?

 

Sure, if you impose a power limit on 12900K and 13900K you will get scores which are closer together as well.

The max score is 33k which seems more reasonable. No way that guy just scored a whopping 10% more than that on an unmodded laptop platform.

[MyPC8MyBrain]

26 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

Where do you see the temps on the screenshot

 

19 hours ago, 1610ftw said:

about only 92^C

indeed, i inferred from @1610ftw post,
i assumed there was more data on the original thread where he saw indicating temps,

 

26 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

No way that guy just scored a whopping 10% more on an unmodded laptop platform

id say way, that is at the least plausible 😅 i did exactly that with my 12950HX, 26k on my none premium bin is not what most get with the same spec system its more like 22k,

a good bin with more efficiency cores things should add up, plus CB23 can tolerate extreme undervolting and overclocking other application will not tolerate, i saw 26k best CB23 score in person for the 12950HX, even if we slap 1% per core increase performance its already close to 10% at least just by merits of number of cores added in the 13980HX,

[Etern4l]

44 minutes ago, MyPC8MyBrain said:

 

indeed, i inferred from @1610ftw post,
i assumed there was more data on the original thread where he saw indicating temps,

 

id say way, that is at the least plausible 😅 i did exactly that with my 12950HX, 26k on my none premium bin is not what most get with the same spec system its more like 22k,

a good bin with more efficiency cores things should add up, plus CB23 can tolerate extreme undervolting and overclocking other application will not tolerate, i saw 26k best CB23 score in person for the 12950HX, even if we slap 1% per core increase performance its already close to 10% at least just by merits of number of cores added in the 13980HX,

 

It doesn't really matter in terms of estimating performance in normal use of the CPU. Even if genuine, the result is an outlier based on some silly unstable settings. For the purpose of comparison with desktops, the reference score would be somewhere in 43-44k range for the 13900K and even higher for the KS. 

[1610ftw]

1 hour ago, Etern4l said:

 

I don't believe it. Looks like an LN2 hack if not bare faced photoshop. Median CB23 score is around 30k for this CPU. 

 

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-Core-i9-13980HX-Processor-Benchmarks-and-Specs.675757.0.html

 

We will see in due time I guess if others come close.

 

As for median scores on notebookcheck.com they do not come from single but from repeated runs and the HX processors seems to react very favorably to undervolting as they are power constricted. So at 200W I can see that an aggressive undervolt may increase performance by 20% or a bit more.

 

As for other numbers I think gizmosliptech recently got about 33K+ on an Asus 18" with no special cooling and there was also a video of the MSI GT77 at a show where it reached over 33K with obviously no special cooling. On top of that the Asus only needed 170W to reach 33K so with some time for tinkering, cooler ambient temps and an excellent bin I would not be surprised if the 13980HX can reach that much and probably more like 33 to 34K for everyday use.

 

What is a good air cooled score for the 13900K these days? Looks like most people are into liquid cooling so it is hard to get any reliable numbers. In any case even non LN2 cooled desktop processors still seem to be ahead by about 15 to 30% on average mostly due to the obvious advantages in cooling and power delivery but that is a lot better than with GPUs where the difference is more like double that amount due to excessive and unnecessary chip and power delivery constraints.

 

[Etern4l]

No one in their right mind would put an air cooler on an 13900K. I have a 360 AIO and 6 Noctua IPPC 3000 RPM fans in push pull, and this is barely enough to cool it at stock frequencies with - 55mV undervolt. 

I might put a 200W power limit on and see what score I get, just for giggles. 

[1610ftw]

13 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

No one in their right mind would put an air cooler on an 13900K. I have a 360 AIO and 6 Noctua IPPC 3000 RPM fans in push pull, and this is barely enough to cool it at stock frequencies with - 55mV undervolt. 

I might put a 200W power limit on and see what score I get, just for giggles. 

 

Hehe, obviously you do not get 40K+ for nothing 🙂

 

I found somebody on Reddit who claims to have reached 37K with his air cooled 13900K at 220W but with a very small undervolt:

 

 

 

[win32asmguy]

1 hour ago, 1610ftw said:

As for other numbers I think gizmosliptech recently got about 33K+ on an Asus 18" with no special cooling and there was also a video of the MSI GT77 at a show where it reached over 33K with obviously no special cooling. On top of that the Asus only needed 170W to reach 33K so with some time for tinkering, cooler ambient temps and an excellent bin I would not be surprised if the 13980HX can reach that much and probably more like 33 to 34K for everyday use.

 

I will report on the 13900HX in an Eluktronics Mech 17 GP2 next week. It has a Premamod bios so it should be tuneable and competitive.

[1610ftw]

25 minutes ago, win32asmguy said:

 

I will report on the 13900HX in an Eluktronics Mech 17 GP2 next week. It has a Premamod bios so it should be tuneable and competitive.

 

Excellent, will you also get the liquid propulsion package?