1610ftw
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Posts posted by 1610ftw
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4 minutes ago, ssj92 said:
It's not about getting a "better unit"
I can even tune my friends m18 and get similar results.
I even found a way to unlock UV in bios so prepare for even better numbers.
This is where the difference between an enthusiast will start to show 😃
Looking forward to hear about that but no amount of tuning or unlocking will overcome a 10+ degrees temperature difference between cores. Not to mention the inverted motherboard design that is just wrong and Dell / Alienware have no performance advantage to show for it.
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12 hours ago, KING19 said:
Dell/Alienware are still pretty bad especially this year, they cheaped out on the display, locked out undervolting (but might add it again in a BIOS update after more customers complain about the temps), Inverted Motherboard again making it very difficult to repaste and the list goes on...
Watched the video now and there is a huge temperature differential between cores on that m18 so it obviously has a lot more potential but it cannot show it when most cores are barely above 80 and one is at 100!
No idea why Alienware wanted to go with this extremely silly design of the inverted motherboard - means that almost nobody will dare to take the m18 apart to risk being out of warranty when something goes wrong - BAD idea.
Instead people will just keep sending them back until they get one with a decent TIM application.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes...
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9 hours ago, Papusan said:
No need to cripple an 330W Delta PSU. It can handle power spikes above 400w and stay loaded well above 330W the whole day.
Yeah, the Delta can probably sustain more than 330W given that it is rather overbuilt but I can understand that manufacturers would not want to get into trouble by allowing a higher sustained power draw. As all manufacturers are affected by more power hungry CPUs since last generation it would not hurt if they could just agree on some kind of top of the line 400W+ GAN power supply form factor that would still be smaller than the current Delta unit. People who find big power supplies impractical for travelling can always get a second smaller one of let's say 240 or 280W if they need something more compact on the road.
9 hours ago, Papusan said:And it seems Dell continue offer 101C as temp target. So woorse than the Razor-books. Can't beat thermal engineer Travis North's fantastic thermal engineering on Dell's gaming flagship. What a Joke! Dell even locked you out from undervolting, LOOL
From 1:02.20 Reset bios back to factory settings and send it back to Dell Alienware, LOOL
See also the talk about Dell Alienware Command Center. What a disgusting mess.
This is so strange - looks like they are throwing a big amount of hardware at rather mediocre performance.
At least when you just get one unit. You can probably go through 3 or 4 units and get a better one like @ssj92 and @win32asmguyapparently did but that should not be the case with such a high end product that took longer to release than almost all of the competition.
It is also unfortunate that serviceability of this one is subpar. To me this is not acceptable as I just want to pop open the bottom panel and maybe the keyboard from the outside but then I have to be able to do all the servicing.
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24 minutes ago, win32asmguy said:
I would say "slightly rubberized" is a good assessment. It is not as rubberized as the Precision but not smooth like the metal bottom panel either.
Thanks, good to know!
I would really like to check on out even though I have absolutely no use for it. I guess I just like the fact that it is relatively big with the potential to have really good cooling.
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@win32asmguy and @ssj92 :
What kind of material is the palm rest and the other surfaces?
Is the palm rest still slightly rubberized / soft touch style like in other Alienwares and the Precision workstations?
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8 hours ago, ssj92 said:
I just looked at the whole list and it only has a total of 22 different users in it and a grand total of 39 results. That is surprising as the Time Spy list has 899 results.
Older Time Spy lists from the 1080 onwards have at least 16000+ results for the top of the line mobile cards so it will be interesting to see how many we will see for the 4090 after one year.
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2 hours ago, win32asmguy said:
I have been testing the Alienware m18 and it seems like it is designed to allow the CPU up to 185W, but the stock paste job cannot sustain more than 130W.
Obviously the killer feature there is just the 18 inch FHD+ display but it is pretty good for performance while being over $1000 cheaper than a similar spec Razer Blade 18.
The m18 is a rather hefty device and I would not consider it a respectable effort by Dell if it could not at least sustain 160W on the CPU with a proper paste job - why make it so much heavier than other devices if it cannot at least achieve equally high performance with the added heft?
That display looks nice though, should be an ideal fit for you!
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53 minutes ago, Papusan said:
Yep, just cripple the Cpu, LOOL
What is base clock speed for Intel Core i9-13950HX without Turbo boost? 2.2GHz? So close to 2.1 GHz on average for the Cpu in gaming tests has to be good. The Cpu reach almost base clock😎 @Mr. Fox
Is this a Joke or relality?💩
This is nice. GPU clocks and power remain relatively stable during The Witcher 3 stress at 1080p Ultra. The average CPU package power gets further reduced to 42.7 W allowing the RTX 4090 to comfortably coast around the 157 W mark on average. Both the Core i9-13950HX and the RTX 4090 clock close to 2.1 GHz on average.
I read somewhere else that MSI intentionally crippled their CPU because their power supply cannot keep up. They would need a bigger power supply or a Y-adapter and two power supplies but they are obviously too cheap to pursue any of those solutions. Instead they use the ancient 10+ year old 330W power supply design that everybody has used starting back in the days with Clevo and Alienware.
You can see here that the GT77 could draw more than 400W but it is artificially crippled in order to not allow that power consumption for more than a few seconds:
Oh and Razer is a complete laughing stock with that kind of power delivery to the CPU. I guess this is what happens when you get the Macbook equivalent among Windows laptops
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@Snowleopard and others who want to maximize storage and did not know what to do with that 4th slot that would only go up to 2TB Sata this one may be for you:
I have kept looking for this for a long time and finally Transcend stepped up the plate and now has a 4TB m2 form factor SATA drive with very good pricing and specs:
https://www.transcend-info.com/product/internal-ssd/mts830s
It will probably not be as good as the best SATA drives but in general Transcend produces solid products with a 5 year warranty.
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On 3/19/2023 at 9:25 PM, srs2236 said:
I have an update. It does eventually shut down. I was playing Little Misfortune for maybe 1 hour on Quiet mode.
Quiet mode means, fans run at very low (inaudible) speed. CPU ran 100C for the whole time. What happened was the 100C went slowly to GPU, and just spread I guess through the whole computer until it just litterally shut down. Not crash, not restart but shutdown.
I can only assume this is a safety mechanism before something overheats badly.
I can say, I was suprised how hot the PC had gotten. The whole chassis was litterally on fire xD It took like 30 mins to cool down passively to room temp.
So yeah. I have just been recently very annoyed at the stock fan speed profile. It's litterally a jet engine. I need to order some new cooling supplies and put a custom fan profile or something. I don't mind it being loud while gaming. I slap on 100% fan speed on both fans, put on headset and game on. It works for hours, CPU is on 100c but it doesn't shut down or anything like that. I just hate that it sounds like a jet engine while playing a indie game like Little Misfortune or just idle.
So I have been punishing it a bit lately haha.
But turns out it will shut down eventually if you let it burn without any fans working. It was roughly 60W on CPU and 50W GPU. 110W without fans for an hour is actually not bad.
That sounds rather dangerous and swapping a motherboard is a pita and a new GPU is very expensive so you may not want to do that anymore😄
Do you still run at 5.0 GHz all cores for the CPU? As an immediate measure you could get that fan profile changed and go down by 0.1 or 0.2 GHz - that will cost you 2 to 4% CPU performance at most (less if it is throttling anyway) and you will surely need 10 to 20% less power which will help a lot with temps.
Recently got to play with a nice SL 10900K and X170SM-G that I got from brother @electrosoft and for a single CB R23 run it goes from 77°C 4.9 all cores 165W to 91°C 5.1 all cores with some appropriate undervolt. That is a lot more power for relatively little gain in performance, about 25% more power and less than 4% performance increase in this case so I will probably dial it down to 4.9 all cores as a daily driver, no need to overdo things.
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1 hour ago, electrosoft said:
At least the Alienware is topping out at 68c on the GPU and not pegging 100c on the CPU unlike the Strix hitting 87c on GPU (that was a 4080 too) and 100c on the CPU even in less CPU intensive games like FO76. CPU score on the strix was right around the same score @ssj92 scored too (~15-16k). Something is amiss.
But again the GPU temps are very nice.
Those GPUs can have a lot of thermal headroom with good cooling as they only need 175W - the MSI GT77 had a GPU temp of around 60 degrees without any additional cooling and I thought that was very low.
The Asus numbers from you and others are really puzzling - it almost seems as if some of the much better numbers we see from reviewers are from special hand picked samples while some if not most of the regular units get a lot hotter than we see in reviews.
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On 3/18/2023 at 3:18 PM, KING19 said:
Yeah it is wasteful but they choose their path by sticking with BGA!.
Come on guys, are you serious? 😄
I would love to get back MXM or preferably a better solution with more power and more bandwidth but I am pretty sure that even back in the MXM days reviewers did not get a package with a barebone and a bunch of GPUs - or CPUs for that matter.
If I was a reviewer I would also not be keen to have bad review results explained by me supposedly being too stupid to properly install the hardware or to change something else before everything is working as it should - too many variables for this to make sense imo.
What is evident though is that Clevo and at some point Alienware and MSI used to be in a position where they only had one single chassis for their barebones with screen options being the other variable whereas manufacturers like Asus and MSI these days have 4, 5 or even 6 presoldered models with a variety of CPUs and GPUs and then they may also have screen opions that would further complicate things.
For the G18 I have seen in different territories:
13650HX with 4050 and 4060
13980HX with 4050,4060,4070,4080 and 4090
That would be at least 7 base models and they also seem to have at least two screens (1920x1200 and 2560x1600) so those are a lot of variations - no fun to manage the warehouse where all of those are stored....
Having worked with the last three Clevo chassis the only thing that is rather difficult to swap is the screen but the keyboard, CP'U and GPU are reasonably easy to swap, down- or upgrade.
On 3/18/2023 at 9:48 AM, electrosoft said:Mobile 3060 vs Mobile 4060 @ryan
Looks like 3060 vs 4060 is a decent upgrade.
4070 vs 3070ti still seems like it isn't worth it.
4080 vs 3080ti is definitely worth it
4090 vs 3080ti is absurdly worth it
The 4060 is a solid card but if you look at the Nr. 50 ranked Time Spy numbers (checked them ca. 5 days ago) you can see that the 4070 stinks badly. The performance increase over the 4060 is too low and the 4080 is miles away:
4060: 10998
add 11.1%
4070: 12219
add 66%
4080: 20238
add 13.5%
4090: 22973
My pick this generation would be the 4060 for FHD gaming and the 4080 for QHD gaming. I would only move up to the 4070 and 4090 respectively if the surcharge wasn't that high or if I needed 4K in case of the 4090.
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On 3/20/2023 at 11:41 AM, kojack said:
Say it ain't so. I called that out years ago on the other forum. Tongfang are not the be all end all, not even by a long shot.
Just have a look at this:
Problems with TongFang / Uniwill based XMG laptops:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pc2DDklgiJU
I still think they have pretty good laptop designs but quality seems to be an issue to a higher degree than with other maufacturers.
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On 3/14/2023 at 8:42 PM, Rengsey R. H. Jr. said:
I can try to install my 4k 18" screen when I get my m18. It's only 60hz though.
Don't do it - it will be too wide for the m18 and it may also void your warranty. Of course if you are still crazy enough to do it we will all cheer you on 😄
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On 3/18/2023 at 9:34 PM, Snowleopard said:
I have been watching all the stuff going on with water cooling the X170sm-g and it is interesting, but in my case, I wanted a desktop replacement laptop to travel with, so for everyone that is water cooling their X170's does that mean you just use it as a desktop and it never leaves your desk? 😄
I think it is more for having the best of both worlds - water cooling when at your desk and a regular laptop on the go.
OK, scratch that - not a regular laptop but a monstrous 17+ lbs package with about twice as much weight as most of todays "behemoths" 😁
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4 hours ago, ymsv said:
As far as I understand , no new Ultra . https://www.notebookcheck.net/Schenker-unveils-KEY-17-Pro-mobile-workstation-with-Intel-i9-13900HX-and-up-to-an-RTX-4090-dGPU.701348.0.html
Obviously the X370 chassis. I think this has already been shown at CES as the upcoming XMG Ultra 17?
At ca. 7.5lbs it seems second in weight only to the Alienware M18 and it will probably have cooling that is about on par with the other BGA books and maybe a little better.
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7 hours ago, srs2236 said:
The CPU draws more power because it doesn't enter power saving modes. To put simply, the voltage supplied to the CPU doesn't change and is static unless it is throttling or something like that.
All of the above means more power draw when idle, some tasks that might have drawn very little power might draw a lot for no particular reason and the CPU on average runs hotter.
This can help with stability though. Even when doing heavy undervolting.
The Clevo laptops draw a lot of power anyway, up to about 10 times of what the CPU alone needs in a test I did with the X170KM-G to check battery life. So not very concerned with a few watt more, I would prefer that instead of having an unstable system.
I also doubt that the electric bill would go up by more than a few bucks per year because of that especially when it allows for a more aggressive undervolt that in turn will decrease consumption in situations with high power draw.
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3 hours ago, ratchetnclank said:
Sheesh those scores are barely any better than a 2080 super. What a waste of silicon.
Cursed by design while pricing still seems to be based on the assumption that the 4070 sits right between the 4060 and the 4080 when in fact it is closer to a performance increase that one would expect with a TI card.
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2 hours ago, win32asmguy said:
Has anybody tried loading Windows 10 on a 7945hx system yet? Curious how it would run if drivers are compatible.
Do these chips have support for four ranks per channel, so they can be taken up to 128gb/192gb?
I also wonder if Alienware is going to have m18 configurations with 7945hx and 4080/4090 as 7600m would be a poor max spec given what the CPU can do.
Sadly my Mech 17 GP2 is freezing after bootup (even in the bios) so it needs to be sent back.
AMD lists it as W10 compatible but with support varying by manufacturer:
Only 64GB (and probably soon 96GB) memory though which is a complete and utter joke for this kind of CPU:
Just made me lose all interest and it probably also means that it will not be seen in top of the line workstations.
With AMD being AMD I would not be surprised if Alienware will only have it in AMD only laptops.
AMD page:
https://www.amd.com/en/product/13016
And sorry to hear about your Mech 17. It looked like you were quite happy with it apart from the issue you are having now?
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1 hour ago, MiRaGe said:
OK, LM on GPU, CPU is delidded with LM applied between the die and the IHS. Max GPU temp at 200W - 74,5C, CPU dropped a good 6-7C from the delidding.
I am done with this P775TM1, it is as it is:
(160\800 stable)
First photo of HWiNFO is before delidding, second is after
.thumb.png.0f2e3941551d2daa1db5652ac2a500e4.png)
Is this with the new heat sink?
The 775 already is a laptop that is quite heavy already so it would be interesting to know how much weight gets added by the new heat sink.
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PassMark demolition of the 13980HX:
Quite the powerhouse with 16 equally strong cores while Intel continues to only have 8 P-cores.
Looking forward to see what it can do in some workstations but I doubt we will see much of it in the higher end versions that usually have some kind of Intel / Thunderbolt combo.
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And now back to the most disappointing card in this generation:
In early leaks it looked like it would be the best bang for the bucks as it supposedly was pretty close to the 4080 mobile but somebody at Nvidia possibly did not like it and changed its fate from best to worst - a roughly 50% increase in Time Spy score going from a 70 to an 80 card must be a first:
At least people with a laptop with the 2080 or better do not have to worry about upgrading - not worth it for this kind of performance.
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On 3/7/2023 at 6:04 AM, SapphiraTriX298 said:
Of course, because their analysts have determined it is the most profitable. Tack on a bit of RGB and you can charge more and people do buy it. Even tongfang does it, though to a lesser degree
That seems a possibility, but probably due in part to Nvidia not allowing a GPU TDP above a certain point. The logic behind that decision I don't fully understand. I do think raising it (sufficiently high enough to make a difference) would create a different product segment rather than replacing one.
But given they have the ability to test wattage/clockspeeds along the spectrum, there was probably a reason 175w was chosen. Perhaps because they do not expect the next year's Ti's to be that much better?
But in regard to the first part these are profit driven companies first, technological innovators secondary to the first. They would make these laptops more powerful if the market demanded.
That tells me that it is not sufficiently profitable to do so compared to other units, which are far from impotent on the top end.
But these grossly expensive laptops from $3000-$5000+ all performing largely the same is probably the best chance to make a change, IF they don't sell as well as hoped. But again, laptops and desktops are different markets, so it could play out differently
Looking at the current generation it looks like the goal is to have a TDP that is low enough to allow the GPU to be adequately cooled in a 6 to 6.5 lbs laptop and with 175W this does not seem to be much of an issue so now all manufacturers can deal with more important things like who has the most garish design and the most RGB bling.
The Alienware m18 will be an interesting test case as it is substantially bigger and heavier than the competition so if it sells well we may again see GPU and total system TDP lifted and with it an increase in weight and size across the board.
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4 hours ago, ssj92 said:
Asus G18 built quality is no where near Alienware m18.
My friend was going to get G18 with 4080 until I showed him the m18 and helped him get the 15% coupon. He will get his m18 one day before me since he paid for next day shipping lol. I get free 2-day air with my dell account, he's more impatient than me.
Good choice on behalf of your friend.
I would also believe that warranty options and sound will be better on the m18.
Also it has better connectivity and there are two additional m2 slots although due to their size they are of limited use.
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RTX 4000 mobile series officially released.
in Tech News
Posted
I would mostly agree as it is part of the fun IF something can be done. As enthusiasts I think we enjoy that unless it immediately voids the warranty which can obviously be an issue.
Looking forward to hear about your results.
You are right about phase change pads. I have been using them for some time now and even with desktop CPUs they are pretty good at evening out temps like here in a Clevo P775 with an 8700K:
1st test run: 129W, 91 to 95°C core temps
2nd test run: 142W, 96 to 100°C core temps
So very constant even at higher temperatures, no 10°C and higher temperature differences. It is also supposed to last very long and to be very easy to apply - not that this would matter here as I am actively looking for an 8-core CPU for that P775 😄
The problem with the m18 will obviously be that for putting in that phase change pad you will have to take apart most of the laptop whereas I had to losen 5 screws to get to the CPU of the P775 with separate heat sinks - only took a few minutes and probably is a best case scenario as it does not even have a unified heat sink.