electrosoft

It comes down to offshoring everything in pursuit of the all mighty dollar. At a certain point, unchecked capitalism is a problem from proper corporate and top percent earners taxation on down to outsourcing anything and everything to maximize profitability. Something isn't adding up here..... Glut of cards, Nvidia ordered AIBs to lower prices to move product yet not enough to make a Noctua edition? Most logical answer is Asus has numerous 5090 models in the fryer atm and the natural flow of GB202 dies is nowhere near on the level of 5080 dies. *IF* Nvidia slowed production of GB202 dies for 5090s, that would be the only other reason. I do think that certain resellers have been keeping prices inflated and holding back on stock to maximize sales but it has now reached a point of overstock so they need to pare that down sooner vs later. You can only give the illusion of scarcity so long before your warehouses are full to the brim and you have to move that product. Even 5080s are not moving like they were and prices are coming down quick closer to MSRP. What I have seen is that as soon as 5090s get close to $1999.99 they sell out fairly quick so that is the next tier of customer (like myself) that will only pay at or near MSRP pricing. You also have that tier that once prices slid under $2500, that made it viable too. But I will reiterate if you're going to buy a 5090, September will most likely be your last target window. I do expect prices to creep back up for the holidays and as production slows for the Super variants early next year too. I wouldn't be surprised if Nvidia ceases normal chip production in the next month or so to switch over for ramping up for the Supers and over the holiday season into January stock will dry up of the normal cards.

KPx still bringing the high heat overall.... (at least in this large batch of thermal pastes)

Yeah it was odd. I scoured the entire store. Played with the Raider, soaked in tons of hardware and still couldn't find anything of note. I have a pile of hardware here now to fully build out another AM5 PC. I might just build it out and sell it locally on TheBookOfFaces. I just upgraded our wifi situation earlier last year so we're good to go for awhile but it is fun when a legit problem presents itself allowing you to go shop and install new tech. 🤣 That is crazy they can't fix the simple error they can all readily identify..... And that 9070xt elite is a banger of a card especially with the upgraded cooling. Now if only UPS could get their act together so we can get that 5090 shunted and blocked.....

Returned the Ventus today to MC and as others have reported, as soon as I walked up to the return counter the sales associated said, "oh! that's a 5090, those have to be returned and checked at the service and repair counter." Walked over to the S&R counter and after a small wait, service dude (real cool dude) asked why I was returning it. I explained the Vanguard situation and he was like, "I would have done the same. I did the same thing except with a 7900XT. 7900XTX open box popped up for $50 more and I returned the 7900XT for the 7900XTX" and then he said, "ok, just have to pop it in real quick to validate it's in working condition" They have a few rigs set up just to test certain high cost returns to verify their status (Begs the question, what happens if I return it for not working / black screen?) I also saw a few people bringing in their non working PCs to have them checked/repaired. One dude brought in a B450 + 2600x PC.....dude.....just get a new one..... After that, easy peasy. Then the wife took the car and went to the ginormous TJ Maxx in the same complex and off to really look at everything commenced. Much smaller and tightly packed than the Microcenter other Microcenter in MD. Crazy small case selection. This was the biggest disappointment after seeing videos of the Tustin MC. I'm thinking of moving my components into a slightly smaller or better designed case that supports 3-4x 140mm fans top, bottom and front. I think they had maybe 3 ITX cases on display. Tons of open box motherboards along with "MC refurbished" models. Open box / clearance items everywhere. They clearly have a wonderful relationship with der8auer and TG because I've never seen such a high concentration of his stuff anywhere like this in my life. Awesome DIY robotics/raspberry area. I had a chance to try out the Raider A18 285HX + 5090 laptop. I don't know if it is a combination of AMD chips boosting too much and/or a change in the fans on the newer version, but it was whisper quiet and when I ran a few benchmarks the fans didn't kick up anywhere near the older AMD Raider. While the Raider is now listed at $3699.99 online, it is $2999.99 in store and $2849.99 after Microcenter Credit Card discount. Saw an open box EVGA 3080ti waterblocked edition in the case in generic wrapping still marked down to $469.99. I've made the 70 min trip now three times in the last 8 days. I'm good for awhile. I scored the Vanguard for a good price and scoured the entire store to my hearts content and found nothing I wanted/needed with my current collection of hardware on my shelves.

I didn't know Xeon's allowed G1 DDR5. That is a nice feature to have. Yeah, even the best 12th gens tapped out around low to mid 7000's. Every 12900k/ks I tested, the best I ever hit was ~7200. If you pick up a pair of 8000+ sticks, they not only usually tune nicely in the 6000's but they also do not limit you in finding what is giving up the ghost, the MB or CPU. @Mr. Fox recommended these 8400 sticks and I picked up a pair and they are really nice and cheap. They cost about $10 more than when I picked them up but still priced nicely. These would make a great set of "dual role" sticks. And that is my #1 pet peeve with some reviewers when they run around starting or old content zones and go, "wow! look! WOW runs on a tin can!" I always tell them at a minimum go take a quick flight through Ardenweald and watch those fps go away real quick. Now we just have to tell them to give Tazevesh a whirl and watch their performance tank on any meaningful settings.

Yeah, this one has outpaced the other two cards by far (within the tight margins of 5090land where a "bad" 5090 is still a freakin 5090). Over on the OCN forums, motivman posted the gigachad vBIOS he is using to smash into the upper echelon with his Ventus 1.11v 5090 (noticing a trend here for top tier cards. They all seem to be >=1.10 vmax cards), but it is the waterforce vbios so a no go for us mere air cooled mortals. I attached it to this post for anyone blocking their card and can flash it. I'll definitely test them in WoW (dunno if you know, but it's a game I dabble in 🤣) and Fallout 76, thanks! I remember you posting and yet again Gigabyte seems to be bringing the heat. Supposedly actually binned and limited to 1,000 cards. You also need a BTF motherboard for 800w. Wonder what these will command? I absolutely love the throwback look though. Only way I'm getting one of those is to luck up and win a contest! Just a general tuning top to bottom on the DDR5. Your best bet if you want to take it to that level is get a decent set of 8000+ sticks and tune them down to cl26-30 or pick up a set already in that range. For WoW, turning off e-cores is a must not only for general performance but opens up more overclocking. Yeah, the A18 was an absolute beast wrecking this 275HX+5070ti and I know most don't care about the fan noise but it was the ultimate nail in the coffin. Temps were really good across the board but those fans..... especially using the Alienware 2025 18 variant. Lights out temps, fantastic noise levels and even setting both to overdrive modes for max fans, the Alienware had not only better dB levels but better pitch. The Alienware defaults to solid teal now and the overhaul on the design is nice. Hopefully the Pro Max 18 Plus (say that 10x in a row) also inherits some of the new design language. Looking forward to your review. GigaChad.rom

You learn something everyday..... I did not know Newegg would do an in store credit within the window if the price drops outside of their "price protection" pre Prime Day / Black Friday price protection (which is them basically saying this item is definitely going on sale). I know Amazon just throws you the birds and says to return it. --------------- Glad you were able to sort it all out and we can get that blocked up and ready to go. Luckily it's a good sample so that adds weight to wanting to hold onto it too. ---------------- @jaybee83 before I start to potentially vBIOS hop around again on the Vanguard, what vBIOS did you settle on for your Suprim as the "one to rule them all?"

Well, at least it was (or will be) corrected. Holy moly I know that first glance had to be a, "WTF?!" Zotac's at MSRP $1999.99 at the Zotac store. Is your return window still open @Mr. Fox? There must be a crazy glut of 5090s if TUFs and SOLIDs are dropping to $1999.99 and fully back at MSRP. I expect more to follow sooner than later in pricing but $1999.99 is finally in line.

Hopefully you collected some fps data from your HEDT rig to collect some on the 12900ks rig to get a set of points to compare. I'd tune up the memory as tight as possible for a before and after comparison with 12900ks. Luckily Tazevesh is the new GPU slayer zone so it's easy to find spots (at least at 4k) to max out the 5090 on the regular at Ultra 10 RT High with no other players around to taint the data. I remember when he was all about WoW benchmarking, hardwarenumb3rs really went in depth with memory scaling showing nice gains with the 12900k in various configs: ----------------- Yeah, I pulled my 2TB and those Fury sticks from the MSI and put back in the original parts and gave it a proper clean install for the new owner. It clearly was better than the Alienware (275hx + 5070ti), but the Alienware is quieter (understatement), better display and plays well enough and that is before I dive into tuning it up as much as possible. I also prefer the stock keyboard more than the Steel Series on the A18....oh and as always, it was free. Alienware already has a clean install now as that stock install had too much crud. TS and SN went from good to excellent just from the clean install alone.

Yeah, the scalpers were all over those still trying to hold onto the last gasp of scalping..... I hope they get caught with a metric ton of stock but alas the holidays are right around the corner and I expect prices to soar right back up..... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Finished collecting some OC Deus Ex Mankind Divided runs. I like Deux Ex and the Dawn Engine. DX12, no RT and can cap out the 5090 to 100 right from the jump to the end with all the eye candy and setting jacked to max (aka, every setting clicked/slid to the right) Astral vs Ventus vs Vanguard.

Ya know ever since I had my first PC with Windows 3.1, I would nuke that puppy with zero consideration on the regular and constructed my file and program storage in such a way that nuking it was pretty straight forward. I used to do the image backups but then by the time I was ready to nuke my install *again* things had changed enough that I would just do a fresh nuke n boot anyhow.....I probably nuke and reinstall at least 6 times a year. I love the feeling of a fresh install in the morning! 😁 That $3600 for the Astral just didn't sit right with me. Absolute unit of a GPU but I couldn't reconcile $3359 + tax for a 5090. I can stomach $1971 + tax. I could also stomach $1933 + tax for the Ventus but for $38 difference, I'll take the Vanguard. It's basically a Suprim with a more flashly slightly less cooler. I think the PCBs are identical then the gaming gets a cap difference then the Ventus is a bare minimum reference board but I could be mistaken. I just sold mine. It was clearly more powerful than my Dell Alienware 18, but the Alienware 18 was free and does well enough lol. Plus I had to cover the cost of re-entering the 5090 fray. For that one, about ~1600-1800. If this was a few months ago, ~2000-2200, but the effective crashing of 5090 laptop prices has pushed 4090 laptops down a bit. Who was it sold by? Right now they're $2449 sold by PCNation. If they were shipped and sold by Amazon you know a reseller snatched them up if they were $1999 which is sad. I do think voltage is a valid metric (one of many) but I also agree that you truly won't know where your card can go unless you block and shunt it where those characteristics can change and some cards suddenly discover a higher inherent voltage ceiling and performance once blocked and shunted and allowed to suck down all the juice they want on top of it to create some spectacular benchmarks. Some just stay the same but still get that block and shunt loving to obviously do much better than they were before. Vmax doesn't automatically mean golden or monster but on average cards with higher vmax capabilities tend to be the better performers uncapped. It can also be their setup or environment too along with skill with overclocking. You can't rule that out either. Remember, there's a reason people go to extreme measures to slam extra voltage into their cards with an EVC. Voltage has value and meaning. Put a mediocre card in the hands of a skilled overclocker and they'll thrash a novice with the most golden of cards day in and day out. I do know this, after seeing the Ventus match or slightly beat the Astral then this Vanguard smash both in the realm of air cooling for sub $2k, I will never, ever buy an overpriced GPU ever again nor pay seriously above MSRP ever again. If I have to wait, I'll wait or do another Best Buy and pick one up to use and test for a few months while the market "gets right." As for now, I'll gladly take my $1971 5090 Vanguard outright smacking down my other two 5090's and ride it to the 6090. 🤑 And I STILL think it is overpriced..... In the end, we're talking a very tight margin of performance differentials when all is said and done and an average 5090 is still a 5090 and will rip things apart. block and shunt it and it turns into a wrecking ball. What truly sucks is the huge differential in prices for 5090s to just blindly slap in rando GPU chips. I still wish we had a Silicon Lottery for GPUs like we had for CPUs. I'm sure blocked and shunted (as @Mr. Fox tongue and cheeked it with the link hehe), this Vanguard would soar as will all 5090s. Unfortunately it is destined for a life of air usage unless an XOC vBIOS drops for funsies. I just happened to have all three 5090's I've owned cap at 1.115 (Astral) , 1.110 (Ventus) and 1.125 (Vanguard)....pure luck of the draw. If the Ventus or Vanguard capped out at 1.02 or even 1.00 and couldn't even break 3ghz, I still would have kept one or the other based on price and lack of coil whine. That overrules everything for me. Hey.....remember when you first got your 5090FE and you said you were probably going to use it as is and we all quietly knew that was bull and that card was definitely going to be blocked ASAP? Good times. 🤣🫶 Hmmm.... I wonder with all the better memory out there now what a truly set of tuned 6400 sticks would do at C30 or below since WoW loves tight timings. I take it the board or CPU IMC capped out at 6400 or is that the set of sticks you happen to have on hand? I have to admit when I see @Talon's videos with the 285k, I'm still tempted to give it a whirl too. I've done all I can and tested with the 14900KS and 9800X3D at this point. I'll finally have a chance to narrow focus on the Alienware 18 275HX with those Fury sticks and see how much OC'ing it has in it to help its performance next week.

That awkward moment when you realize you're going to have to rerun all your benchmarks because you didn't push Power Limit slider at all past 100 on the Vanguard on any of them..... /awkward.... 🤪 #IWantThat4Percent I'm ready for a clean install anyhow. Between flopping and testing 5 different cards on this Install (9070xt, 3060ti, Shadow 5080, Ventus 5090, Vanguard 5090) and just trying out all types of software and tweaks lately and moving back and forth between various Nvidia drivers, it needs a clean slate to start.... Happy birthday @Papusan! The forums wouldn't be the same with out you old friend! Hope you're still enjoying your vacation.

Sheesh, well like he said that card's sheer purpose is to break benchmarks or die in the process. He also paid out of pocket for that one too. I think it is a good sample too. Realistically, once you're >=1.050 it just becomes one of many factors and doesn't make or break your card especially when destined for a block and a shunt. Once you shunt and block it that is when it will truly shine and definitely looking forward to the results and as we've seen with @johnksss taking an air cooled Astral 5090 to the next level there's always levels to this. 🤐 Any eta on a block? EDIT: Actually now that I think back looking at your initial results, I remember thinking then "Hmmm, this is a pretty decent sample!"

Thanks for the update! I was wondering how the vBIOS on another card stacked up. I think (unless I'm misremembering) early on when we were discussing vmax and idle max locks and different vbioses, it was generally accepted that flashing different vbioses on cards doesn't change the vmax of the card capped at the 600w limit. Each chip has its own voltage max limit built in/request/reported along with max idle boost clocks. Boost clocks will hit their limit regardless of the vbios unless the vbios itself has a built in boost clock cap that is less than the chip's inherent boost clock cap. At that point, you can find a vbios that allows a higher boost clock cap to figure out your chip's boost clock cap. Usually the GB vBIOS will show you where your chip will land and really let it stretch its wings to the max. You can line up 10 of the same make and model 5090 and click boost and they will all come back with different voltage max and idle clock max (except if they hit built in clock max). In your case, it looks like 3277 might be its cap. Also uncapping that limit via shunt doesn't guarantee a voltage increase. For many cards, the vmax stays the same as it was pre-shunt. I think @tps3443 5090FE stayed at or around 1.075v but there are 5090FEs out there blessed naturally via silicon with 1.11+ vmax's. I think one even hit 1.125. Think of vmax being its own form of silicon lottery in theory. I think @jaybee83's Suprim 5090 was around 1.02v? He put up a really nice post early on when he was taking the time and putting in the work testing numerous vBIOSes. He also had lower overall boost lock clocks when checked too. I don't know if things have changed since then. You can do what some and JZ2C did and attach an EVC to force more voltage through the card. In that last video discussing his burnt connector, he was pushing it to >1.2v. I always wondered how much forced voltage was fighting against the chip's natural table/nature when watching the forced increase in voltage. Via block, shunt and an EVC you can push it to the extreme. If you still had your chiller on top of it? Whew.....sky's the limit. Gigabyte Master vBIOS seems to be the special sauce for clocks. The Master vBIOS on your Zotac is also pulling some serious juice! -------------------------------- It's scary when the GPU quality itself is the primary criteria.... Here is Motivman with a VENTUS placing in the top tier.... https://www.3dmark.com/pr/3605747

Well, I mean if you're gonna burn, go full tilt! I have always thought the burning connector issue (outside of CM's fiasco) was blown a bit out of proportion. What I don't like is the inconsistency and overall non optimal nature of the connector leaving everyone open for a potential burn. It just needs to be redesigned from the ground up and eliminate the need for real time active pin monitoring. I am also of the mind that if it does burn, it is MSI from connector to GPU so it's on them and their 3yr warranty. We've routinely seen GPU makers deny warranty claims because you weren't using their supplied connector either out of the box or their PSU with the effected card. When I say I didn't care about performance or bin and just wanted no coil whine and $2k or less pricing, I meant it but this was a pleasant surprise....again. Yeah, the trio lacks the vapor chamber and has slightly smaller caps but overall I think it is a wash especially if you ever end up blocking it. I fully expected the Ventus to beat it seeing some of the results from other cards so I was shocked and happy to see it pretty much blasted past my Astral and my Ventus. I hate to admit it, but I like the RGB on it too (sorry @Mr. Fox! 🤣) I'd really be interested in that swap over and test. I forget which Z690 board you're running. DDR4 or DDR5? I know swapping from my former 8400 DDR5 testing Z790i lightning into my wife's Z690 DDR4 4000 CL15 rig with the 14900KS, the DDR5 rig was definitely giving me better results in testing both at 1440p and 4k. 59x/45x/50x ran and runs fine on both. Attached to this post.... let me know how it goes especially compared to your stock Zotac and if you flashed another for testing along the way. All I know also is some in progress Deus Ex testing on extreme and this Vanguard is clearly outpacing the Astral and Ventus at stock and OC with the same settings..... Here is the stock results so far.... It difference gets even wider with an OC..... Vanguard5090.rom