electrosoft

It's possible to have a weak IMC on any AM5 chip. Remember, these are only "officially" rated to handle 5600 and I had that 9800X3D which barely could do that before returning and capped out at 2000 fclk on the nose. Nothing would push it over. Order another and/or another motherboard to sort out what is holding you back. It could also be your memory too. I went through a few boards and sets of memory to realize that first 9800X3D was the culprit. Second one ( current ) is much better. ---------------- You could always return everything and go 270k too for shiggles and probably save a bit of coin on top of it.

Did not even think of the 25H2 CE (which I am running) being the culprit, wow. Fitting though..... On the HP Omen, it is running the OEM cookie cutter 24H2 Home edition. Scores looking much better! When you lop off its head for DD cooling, that will kick it up a notch nicely.

Welcome to the club @Mr. Fox and I had a very similar problem actually with the Asus Z890 Strix and Intel B580 when testing my Acer B580 variant on it. Initially, I thought the card might be defective at one point. I kept having the GPU randomly go into recovery mode as listed under device manager. Let's call it Code 43 adjacent. I tested it on a pre-built HP Omen HP sent me to eval and it suddenly worked fine no problems so I ended up doing a few clean installs, same issue would just randomly pop up and tracked it down to Asus driver revisions. I ended up going with Intel and Gigabyte variants and the problem resolved itself. The Asus versions were so wonky that every time I went to install the Intel GPU drivers it kept trying to update the firmware which was already updated each and every time. Once I sorted out the drivers, the GPU driver install worked as it should.

If you're able to do 6600 anything 1:1 that is the golden level for IMC compatibility. Most chips can't do 6600 with proper stress testing. For example, I can post 6600 but can't pass anything meaningful but 6400 is no problem. If you're able to somehow dial in 2200/6600 that is literally the golden standard of G2. You *might* have a not so great 8000+ kit on your hands but a really good 1:1 6400 dual rank set in your possession @Mr. Fox If you're able to do 2133/6400 on dual rank that is something major for my low end use case/testing and I would love to see some gaming and bandwidth/latency benchmarks for testing. I've had several dual rank 6000 kits that were trash for 8000 and couldn't hit 2133/6400 for any meaningful stress testing. Do they pass 2133/6400 dual rank Karhu and Aida64?

Oh I recognize that hand writing! 🤣 Fun times incoming @Mr. Fox Congratz! ^^^This For those who want to run G2 mode on AM5, they are really good sticks in what is 99% of AM5 chips out there that top out at 6400 but past that? Good luck. I'd be curious to see if dual rank at 6000-6400 nets you any better performance than single rank 6000-6400 with the same timings like old school used to do for us.... what's the model # if the sticks you have @Mr. Fox? I wouldn't exchange just yet (unless your return window is 15 days). I would get another CPU or MB first (or both) to really dial down on what is holding you back. If I had just stuck with that Apex and assumed it was not the problem, I would be all over the map. Luckily, I had two motherboards to test against it (Z890 AYW, Z890 Strix-A) and three sets of memory which let me know the Apex was the problem.

I usually end up bouncing two off each other and sometimes more. It also helps flesh out your MB, but that Dark Hero should be able to do 8000 easy. I think it's rated up to 9600? That doesn't mean you couldn't receive a problematic board like many of us suffered with the Z890 Apex boards that were crapping out past 8400 for some reason. Like @Mr. Fox said, check what rank your sticks are. I tend to go with 2x24GB kits as they are primarily single rank and not problematic. X3D is pretty righteous especially when a game loves the cache but at 4k things get real close real fast. Yeah, I posted an analysis yesterday on his video: 270k is easily the best bang/buck Intel has brought to market in quite some time and that video backs up a few things I've been spewing especially cache saturation at higher resolutions so I posit with cache in play you can no longer arbitrarily use 1080p as a watermark for future performance metrics at higher resolutions with more powerful GPUs down the pipeline (IE 6090, 10070xt) Right now, if I was in the market for a banger gaming setup on a budget I would go 270k along with all the heavily discounted Z890 MBs on the market and a decent set of 8000 sticks and call it a wrap. DDR5 is a constant regardless if you go with AMD or Intel. I know him and Jufus were friends (maybe still are), but he goes after his testing methodology pretty hard along with others.

Sounds like a potential imc dud albeit you can't rule out the MB either.... I would snag another to compare it against for chip to chip check and to check the MB. Ditto on my first 9800X3D that couldn't do anything past 2000 fclk and 5600 on memory stable. I returned that and my next one is my current one. 2200 fclk and 6400 along with 8200. I haven't really pushed it past that though in light of the newer 9200 sticks. Might need to revisit that.

The difference between 6000 and 8000 in real world applications and games has been shown on average to be much of nothing due to the memory architecture of AM5, but with that being said it is better to run 8000 if you're able to because at worse, with tight timings, it basically equals 6000 tight but in pockets the extra bandwidth can come into play. 6000 tight if your program really happens to be latency sensitive but even something like WOW which is traditionally known to be latency sensitive on Intel literally ran the same (or close to it) 6000 vs 8000 on AM5. If I couldn't hit at least 8000, I would go back to 2133/6400 or even 2000/6000 but that's personal preference. Did you test your fclk yet to see where it posts up to at least? You posted 7200, are you just scaling up to see how high you can post at this point before running some stability tests later? I've had that problem before where an aggressive EXPO/XMP timing was causing no post. At that point, even scaling the frequency down to Jedec but still retaining the stock EXPO/XMP speeds would fail to post. Usually at that point (pro tip) use Asus tweaked/optimized timings. More times than not it will adjust a bad timing into a proper range then compare EXPO/XMP timings vs Asus tweaked timings to pinpoint the problem(s). You can also go old school JEDEC, set SOC/VDDIO close to max and scale up from there unless you had problems booting JEDEC too?

Ultimate shootout with bonus crapping on Jufus's testing methodology (and others): 4k gaming really shows any of the CPUs finely tuned are on average close to each other capping out even a 5090 and the 10 game average when tuned it is a wash overall except for those rare titles that love X3D enough to make a meaningful difference even at 4k. His results are basically in line with my testing even harking back to 7800X3D vs 13900KS and on but as always YMMV. I would say 1080p is a portend of future 4k potential removing the GPU as a potential bottleneck with more powerful GPUs coming down the pipeline but the problem is X3D cache saturation diminishes as resolution lowers so you can't just predict future gains using a more powerful GPU at higher resolutions (thus lowering or removing the GPU as a bottleneck) using 1080p straight forward... The overall king is now the 9950X3D2 taking into consideration everything. At 4k, I found it interesting the extra X3D on the other CCD actually helps level out some of the saturation deficiencies you can experience at such high resolutions vs the 9850X3D (further adding evidence to X3D saturation issues at higher resolutions). It's a pricey thang though..... ...either way bring on the bLLC! 270k is an absolute banger of a CPU and with the drastic cuts to MB pricing the real challenge is tracking down a set of decently priced 8000+ sticks either as sold or a 6000+ kit and OC'ing it. ------------------------------- Shockingly, those same two $5300 Gigabyte 5090 Infinity GPUs are still in stock at our local Microcenter.... As a matter of fact, they're still in stock at all 10 Microcenters within a 150 mile radius too.... 🤣

I know it's not "in fasion" for AM5, but I would test a max static OC just for reference/capability and then carve out a PBO OC against it for comparison. I've done this with every AM4/AM5 CPU I've owned. I did it on my 5800x platform I ran and all subsequent 7800X3D/7950X3D/9800X3D platforms. And as @Mr. Fox referenced, this will definitely blast your temps and give you an "Intel like" experience OC'ing. SP118 is a solid average or slightly above average chip but check the IMC and see if it can do 2133/6400 at least and hopefully 2200/6400 on the G2 level then push for 8000+ and see what it can do. I've done that before. Bought something then sat on it for a week or so getting over buyers remorse and finally cracking it open. I JUST did that with my replacement iPad M5 13 2TB Wifi+Cell Nano Texture I picked up open box saving ~$1k. I left it on the table all week while I limped along on my slowly dying Ipad 12.9 M1 128GB peasant edition. 🤣 I told ya the switch from that capable but old Intel HEDT to X3D with that 5090 was going to change your life. 🤣 Well, maybe not that extreme, but you could tune up another 14900, 270k or X3D and any of them would best your soon to be old rig. The real sweet sauce is when you run across select titles that absolutely love that X3D cache and really sing.

How did you end up with an 8hr layover? 8hr layover for a ~5hr flight = fun. What problems and what SP rating did you end up getting? I do like the look of the RGB panel on that Dark Hero though.... Something new and fun to play with. That was my logic to fill the time till Nova.... Yep, just checked and they're still $249.99.....

If you have a local Microcenter, they're $249.99 atm...$237.49 with a Microcenter credit card. It's a crazy good processor. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Wireview Pro 2 in white looks slick..... ---------------------------------------------------------------------

Have we heard of widespread meltdowns in AI farms / data centers where these cards are pushed 24/7/365? The connector is problematic, but I am curious about locations that have large, widespread deployments in use all the time. --------------------------------------------------------- Sugi's run on PR with no optimization tweaks like those who "play" 3Dmark 🤣

One thing I love about Microcenter is they test all returned GPUs even 9070xt's and have a series of testing and steps to verify the cores and memory are there. When I returned both open boxes the Ventus 5090 (opting to keep the Vanguard) and the Challenger 9070xt (flat out defective), they tested and visually inspected both with a fine tooth comb. Still, the Challenger 9070xt open box managed to make it out of the store into my hands though clearly defective but I described how that happened in a post here months ago. Such scumbags out there it just grosses me out sometimes....... I'm thinking he tried to return it after the 15 day return period non BB plus members have. I figure the cost of the $50/yr membership gives me a 60 day return window and I usually end up racking up enough savings from member plus specials to make it worthwhile. I know playing the open box game I've gotten my fair share of stinkers from CPUs to GPUs to cameras and more. There's always a small bit of apprehension but the savings are insane sometimes. I've easily saved 10's of thousands of dollars over the years shopping open box or buying used or doing your due diligence. But stripping 5080's now?!...... Well this should be a fun ride. 🙂 Congrats on the hardware pickups and looking forward to seeing it all up and running and hopefully a good bin comes your way bro! Always did like the look of the dom platz and continues on with the titanz. -------------------------------------------------------- Same two are still in stock at our local MC for the Gigabyte Tron Edition 5090.....$5299 is insanity.... I love the look of the new Asus Astral 20 but that price? Well, I guess if people keep paying these prices they will keep selling them. I don't blame Asus at all. I blame consumers who can't say no....

Agreed, I can't see the upside for the price for a 9950X3D2. Find one priced the same as a 9950X3D? Sure, why not, let's have some fun but current status? It just doesn't make sense at least for my use case. I know you would have fun with an Arrow Lake setup @Mr. Fox. Even better DDR5 OC'ing than Raptor and then some and a much more nuanced approach to overclocking. It will truly leave your memory sticks gasping for air potentially even in G2 let along G4.....

That's a sound approach. I've done that before using 0% financing in the moment for 12-18 months to snag some deals and know I could just pay it off selling off excess hardware and never touch my main funds in any way, shape or form. As @Mr. Fox is alluding to, it comes down to what you expect and how far do you want to push the platform? A lot of variables need to come into play as you well know between CPU, Memory and motherboard binning and on AM5 what gear you're looking to run. I have three sets of memory Team Group 8200, KingBank 8400 and Vengeance 9200. On my AM5 platform, the 9200 can do CL26 while the other two can not.They both top out at CL30. Coincidentally, those 9200 sticks also are the only ones that can do 9066 G2 with zero extra voltage on my 270k. The 9200 are late production 2025 sticks. I wish I had two pairs of them but they are never in stock and sell for $900+ on eBay and get snapped up every time. I paid $370 for them. I would never pay the outlandish prices now but if I only had my first two sets, I would be hitting a wall on my modest set up. I DO think you will have much better success if you rip the heatsinks off your sticks and add them into your loop than my setup and I guess since this is BB, you could try binning some sets and see where it takes you. I can vouch for Arrow Lake being fun too. Either platform will give you plenty of new things to learn and tweak and it is much cheaper than a 9950X3D2 and even a 9950X3D. If you stick with 4k gaming, it really neuters a lot of the X3D pizazz on most case by case games. Either way, you're gonna have fun. 🙂

His better bin did 8200 so he's looking for 8400+ so good luck. Sugi's 8800 binned unicorn is bonkers good. Also another reason I was hesitant over his delidded one for sale with F&F..... Tempting with the delidded heatsink and offset mount, but not for $800 and SP117. Seems like a good dude, though that loves hardware so +1 on that. Hmmmm, I might have to give the Noctua a whirl then. I've been using my LF II 420 for years now and it gets it done and has held its own against just about everything I've thrown it against so far but it's Noctua! I know Nova is going to be beast.... I'd really go with the G.Skill C26 from Amazon if you're going to be paying that much from BB for those or at least the sticks quoted from @Talon unless you have a crapton of reward points saved up or want/need to use BB credit instead. I also think the 9850X3D is the smart move too. Like you said, you're not into extreme OC'ing anymore. I think you've come back down to my level where I tune and apply a modest OC but everything I do is tuned around D2D stability. You still run custom water though which is nice.

@tps3443 Those sticks with G are available on Amazon for $699.99 direct from G.Skill: F5-6000J2636H16G: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0F1WX47YD?lv=shuf&channelId=500&plpRedirect=mhFallback&th=1 $799.99 for the 2x24GB variants $1299.99 for the 2x32GB variants If you want a set, might want to snap them up now.

You could move to 4K 240hz which is what I run with fps capped to ~175fps so I don't get a monster differential between 1% lows and fps for more consistent game play experience. Yeah, a lot of those kits can crank 8000. I'm still stuck in Arrow Lake mental land where everything is 8800+ or bust and tuning around 9066 G2 atm while fighting the urge to bin some more boards.... If you're mainly looking for gaming, get s 9850X3D and call it a wrap. If you want the best of both worlds, get a 9950X3D (or Epyc like @Mr. Fox alluded to) and call it a wrap. If you absolutely do NOT care about value and want the best of the best, get a 9950X3D2 which I can't see being worth it but good for testing. Either way, when I ran a 7950X3D, I just took the 20 seconds it took to enter the bios and enable my profile that turned the non X3D CCD off when gaming and had the X3D CCD tuned up. No muss, no fuss. This was my preferred way of gaming after dealing with M$ and even PL. Them: "Hey, here's some software so you can properly park and/or manage core isolation" Me: "Or, I can just shut it down completely and fine tune around the X3D binned CCD only for gaming and it takes a hot few minutes tops to just enable that user profile" You will need absolute Sugi level binning to find a super unicorn golden chip to hope for the 8800 he's running properly on his rig. You're most likely going to do 8000 for proper sync and either board can handle that. 14900KS is still a viable option and like I've said numerous times, that SP109 14900KS dialed in still at 59/45/50 (on an AIO no less) running crisp and cool running on the wife's system with my original launch edition Asus Z690-A Strix and 2x16GB G.Skill B.die tuned at 4133. She'll run that thing into the ground as I don't see anything coming out that will hinder it anytime soon at 4k. If you DO stick to 4k gaming, Arrow Lake is also a very viable platform vs AMD and testing has shown it matches X3D and actually can have better lows too on top of it if that is something you'd want to entertain. It is also different enough to present a new challenge and fun OC'ing and tuning. Not as radically different as AMD vs Intel, but enough vs Intel to make it fun. One thing to keep in mind X3D is a, "better to have it and not need it vs need it and not have it," tool in your arsenal. It really is a game by game situation. One game will show nothing and another will have insane results. If you go dual CCDs, you can even enable and disable them back and forth to really see the difference in certain titles which is what I did with Fallout 76 and the 7950X3D vs my 13900KS tuned because I just wasn't believing the performance gains X3D was bringing but they were valid. In WoW? Not so much....

You would be the first of us in this group to run a 9950X3D2. I was looking at Freaky's delidded 9950X3D2 over on the OCFs but being an SP117, but $800 I'd rather spin the wheel and bin some myself if I went that direction and only PP FF. I'd need a bit of protection to make sure the delidded chip was 100%. But if you wanted to look for a decent deal regardless of chip bin and get it delidded and ready to go, that wouldn't be a bad option. Depends on if you're looking to run 6000+ or 8000+ (or hope to get some decent 6000 sticks to push to 8000+). Best Buy has a limited selection. Prices are what they are unfortunately. The sell 4 sets of 8000 sticks and they're marketplace from Newegg so.....plus no 2x24GB kits all 2x16 or 2x32. Checking PCpartpicker, good smattering of 8000+ kits all starting at 600+ for 2x24GB. Good board selection (yeah I'm not biased at all) 🤣. There are some good 1DPC boards out there if you're looking to really push ram. I take it you didn't hold onto any of your DDR5? 9950X3D2 bundles from MC are bleh..... Either way, AMD or Intel are going to definitely outclass your current rig and push your 5090 nicely.

If you still own a 4090 from launch, you are definitely getting your money's worth and can STILL sell it for more than you bought it.....crazy. But it is priced much higher than the lower tier 5080s available too. I can go grab a brand new 5080 for $1200 right now. (actually an open box for $1124 = $1067 with MC card) ....speaking of Microcenter....yeah I saw our local MC had 5 of those in stock last night and as of right now, they still have 2 which means 3 people gleefully went there and paid $5617 after tax for one of those.....insane. There is absolutely nothing "special" about that card outside of the Tron like design. No dual connectors. No extra beefy cooling. No 800w+ support from what I can see. Out of all the premium cards (Matrix, Lightning, Astral XL, Infinity), Infinity is the weakest of them all. I'd go Lightning first because of dual connectors followed by Astral XL then Matrix and finally Infinity. -------------------------------------------------------------- @jaybee83 Suprim 5090 gets the Northwestrepair treatment finally! (Along with Tony's usual dose of negativity) As we already knew, Vanguard and Suprim are basically identical. He's all hopped up over lack of fuses as always..... 1.020 voltage.... -------------------------------------------------------------- KingBank and Gloway switching to China made memory modules for some of their sticks.....curious to see how they stack up against SK and Samsung.... https://videocardz.com/newz/chinese-memory-brands-move-to-china-made-24gb-ddr5-chips --------------------------------------------------------------- No one not even CLOSE to Nvidia in AI performance.....so dominating it's downright scary.... https://wccftech.com/nvidia-blackwell-sweeps-mlperf-6-0-benchmark-no-competition-in-sight/ "Whether at massive scale or modest configurations, NVIDIA consistently outperformed the competition, often delivering results that rivals couldn’t even submit. With continued software optimizations and the upcoming Vera Rubin platform on the horizon, NVIDIA’s leadership in AI training remains stronger than ever." ------------------------------------------------------------------- A glimpse into the AI master plan..... https://wccftech.com/samsung-bets-on-unmanned-fabs-by-2030-to-break-its-unions-leverage-after-a-costly-bonus-war/

I'm banking on Nova Lake..... --------------------------------------------------------- One of those "hmmmm" videos where the 5080/9070xt/5070ti are close enough to really not make that much of a difference at 4k and I would posit even at 1440p go for the best bang/buck in many situations. With 9070xt's dipping back into the $600-650 range again, insane to pay $1k for a 5070ti or $1200+ for a 5080 unless you want the very best not named 5090.... You just have the 5090 sitting up in the clouds looking down at the rest shaking it's ~$4k head at the commoners.....

I would keep the Astral 5090 too at this point with the market being the way it is. In the end, you're gonna be able to sell it for at worst what you paid, but most likely a touch more. As for the Astral 5080, there were a few locally for sale for $1500 and $1400 that languished for awhile before I'm sure sold for a touch less I saw when I was shopping for a potential 5090 for my D20 SFF build in case I didn't want to go with the 9070xt . Most I would pay for a 5080 anything would be $1200 but that's just me. It's just finding the right buyer. On the other hand, Astral 5090s or anything 5090 sell quickly even at insane prices. After having gamed back and forth on a 5080 2x (5090FE, MSI 5080 gaming), 5090 3x (Astral, Ventus, Vanguard) and a 9070xt 2x (Gigabyte Gaming, Powercolor Red Devil) at 4k, there's just no way I could settle with anything but a 5090 on my main rig and I know it. I love the two 9070xt's in our household, but reality is what it is. ----------------------------------------------------- 9070xt finally makes a VERY small dent. Nvidia is simply godmode. Performance will always rule the day period.... AMD continues to erode Intel's hold on Steam..... parity could come next year. Years ago, I never, ever thought AMD would ever truly put a meaningful dent in Intel's CPU domination let alone be on the cusp of equaling or beating them...wow https://videocardz.com/newz/radeon-rx-9070-xt-and-rx-9060-xt-appear-in-steam-hardware-survey-for-may ------------------------------------------------------- Raptor Lake refresh with no Bartlett desktop.....pass: https://videocardz.com/newz/intel-to-launch-core-200-raptor-lake-next-in-2027-for-lga-1700-socket ---------------------------------------------------------- Another day, another "High endurance / High thermal" adapter succumbs to the 12vhpwr monstrosity.... https://videocardz.com/newz/corsair-gpu-power-bridge-rated-for-up-to-105c-melts-on-rtx-4090-founders-edition

Yeah, I always kept an eye on it. Early on, it was such a great feature to have and still is. With the advent of the WireView Pro 2 and integration with HWinfo along with warning and shut down mechanisms and warranty, it does add a nice bit of piece of mind. I love hitting certain parts of WoW and watching those bars spike and comparing the on display readouts of wattage with reported wattage, seeing if the internal fan kicks on and more. Astral 5090 is a fantastic card. I think I said when I returned mine I had ZERO complaints and I do mean zero.....except the price. 🤣 Now look at the market...silly me. Like I said, I also think the Astral is one of the best looking 5090's on the market easily. I love everything about its thick slabular design. Even how the lighting strip lights up on power up. Feels very Blade Runner like. One thing I miss dearly from the Astral 5090 is the zero fan mode was truly zero fans. The Ventus I had and the Vanguard will spin up for shiggles based on reported voltage even light browsing. In a quiet room, it is all I will hear is the low dull rumble of the fans on the GPU and that's it.

Titans are on another level. Many think the Titan is a slightly better Raider, but it is MSI's flagship and it shows. Nice pickup! 4090 and 5090 mobile are much closer than their desktop parts anyhow. I was bidding on a 9955HX3D + 5090 Raider on eBay, but the price got outlandish pretty quick and I was out. It ended up selling for something like $4k so yeah..... Yeah, I am getting ready to open mine back up and sell off several items that missed the first wave along with a few extras too. I'll have to give that driver a dry. I have to admit I haven't had many problems in WoW lately with the 9800X3D + 5090, but if there are DX12 direct issues addressed specifically with WoW, I'm going to want to update anyhow. I've been advocating and have posted this advice several times in this very forum now for this for years now since the 4090. One of the reasons I kept my front panel off was so the 12vhpwr cable could have a clean, straight run for a bit from the GPU/PSU before introducing any type of bends...... With the WV2Pro now, I could put the glass back on, but I like an open case now and zero extra fans needing to run except what's on the GPU and the 420mm AIO fans. Keeps things pretty quiet. That blood pressure is excellent @Papusan!! The fact is is much lower also means the heightened stress on your system will allow it to relax and may even allow your breathing to become a bit more relaxed too. How did you damage your lungs? Was it the smoking or something else? Either way, good job on the BP! Now hopefully we can get that heart rate down. Has your doc asked you to try nebivolol? It is for BP but also helps slow your heart rate a bit too and prevents spikes.