RTX 4000 mobile series officially released.

[VEGGIM]

30 minutes ago, 1610ftw said:

 

 

The result is that now we have 18" screen laptops with a chassis that has less volume than former 15.6" workstations.

As it looks like the only exception is the Alienware 18m which seems to be bigger but with its own strange shortcomings despite its weight and dimensions.

Isn't that Cuz of thin bezels. Bezels being thinner means screens can have larger screens but smaller chassis. My old asus strix scar 17 inch makes my legion 7 look small by comparsion.

Unless they go back to thick bezels that isn't happening. technically the screen size that would get it to that chassis size is 20 inch screens. but thats in theory.

[1610ftw]

1 hour ago, VEGGIM said:

Isn't that Cuz of thin bezels. Bezels being thinner means screens can have larger screens but smaller chassis. My old asus strix scar 17 inch makes my legion 7 look small by comparsion.

Unless they go back to thick bezels that isn't happening. technically the screen size that would get it to that chassis size is 20 inch screens. but thats in theory.

 

It is a combination of thin bezels and much less internal height.

 

As for maximum screen size the old top of the line 17.3" 16:9 chassis like the Asus 701/3, Clevo P870 and MSI GT72/73/75 could hold 19.2" 16:10 screens if they had the 5.5 to 7mm bezels that are found in current laptops.

 

In such a chassis it is possible that even Asus, Acer and Alienware would find the space for 4 memory sticks and 4 2280 NVME slots outside of workstations.

 

And if you are looking at something really big like the MSI GT83 or the last Alienware 18 then you are looking at a chassis that would even hold a 20.5" 16:10 screen. Now that is a nice screen size and something that I would also sign up for.

 

 

[1610ftw]

1 hour ago, Mr. Fox said:

100%... Well said, Brother. Yup, each will rise to their own level of incompetence. There is not a single shred of awesome or excellent to be found.

 

We live in sad times when excellence is at most relative and at worst just mediocrity pretending to be excellence. Clevo is doing it with even less shame than others with the X370 and with them I find it to be the most disappointing. I am pretty certain they will suffer for having done that as top of the line Clevos were all socketed for several generations.

 

[saturnotaku]

Reviews are starting to come out. HUB tests the 4090 while Jarrod's Tech compares the 4080 vs the 3080 Ti.

 

 

 

 

[Mr. Fox]

1 hour ago, 1610ftw said:

 

We live in sad times when excellence is at most relative and at worst just mediocrity pretending to be excellence. Clevo is doing it with even less shame than others with the X370 and with them I find it to be the most disappointing. I am pretty certain they will suffer for having done that as top of the line Clevos were all socketed for several generations.

 

All laptops should ship with a protective skin like this one by default. It applies universally.

[1610ftw]

2 hours ago, saturnotaku said:

Reviews are starting to come out. HUB tests the 4090 while Jarrod's Tech compares the 4080 vs the 3080 Ti.

 

 

 

 

 

It is quite obvious that we do not get to see any Time Spy benchmarks. Pretty sure Nvidia does not allow it at this point which in turn probably means they are less than flattering.

[VEGGIM]

1 hour ago, 1610ftw said:

 

It is quite obvious that we do not get to see any Time Spy benchmarks. Pretty sure Nvidia does not allow it at this point which in turn probably means they are less than flattering.

 

The above is 4090 the bottom is 4080:

Sources:MSI Titan GT77 HX 13V Review - Ultimate Gaming Laptop with RTX 4090 & Core i9-13950HX - NotebookCheck.net Reviews
Mobile GeForce RTX 4080 debut: Razer Blade 16 Early 2023 laptop review - NotebookCheck.net Reviews

It is a razer though for the second one. And we kinda know how razers peform.

 

[VEGGIM]

 "Though Razer advertises a peak TGP of 175 W, we're only able to record a maximum stable range between 157 W and 162 W when running demanding games. It'll be interesting to see how future GeForce RTX 4080 laptops will compare in this regard as the Blade 16 is only our first." - NBC
 

So I think the Razer 16" can't cool the fully powered GPU and that extra power alone should push it up a bit. Not to mention CPU; seems like it can sustain about 105-110w on the CPU where bigger machines this iteration are pushing 150w sustained which would boost the CPU score

[Papusan]

6 hours ago, 1610ftw said:

MSI is as guilty as any company as it is beyond silly to sell the exact same power envelope as last year as revolutionary. They did not even bother to go with a small increase to let's say 260 or 275W as I can only assume that manufacturers have formed some secret cartel of mediocrity whereby no manufacturer is advertising more than 250W combined for CPU and GPU so that they can all continue to offer their thin and light "behemoths" as the gullible call them.

 

The result is that now we have 18" screen laptops with a chassis that has less volume than former 15.6" workstations.

Yep, even with a bigger chassis as the big hype... 17,3 now 18" chassis size they couldn't offer a increase in power. And bigger cooling cost money. This is intended... They want you back in the stores fast as hell when next gen crippled models is out. The more castrated... The easyer is it to push you over on next gen Jokebooks. 

 

[VEGGIM]

8 minutes ago, Papusan said:

Yep, even with a bigger chassis as the big hype... 17,3 now 18" chassis size they couldn't offer a increase in power. And bigger cooling cost money. This is intended... They want you back in the stores fast as hell when next gen crippled models is out. The more castrated... The easyer is it to push you over on next gen Jokebooks. 

 

Are we talking about gpu wise. Or that the cpu can't go any higher. If it's the gpu. Then that's kinda on Nvidia. Cpu. Then I'd get it

[1610ftw]

22 minutes ago, VEGGIM said:

Are we talking about gpu wise. Or that the cpu can't go any higher. If it's the gpu. Then that's kinda on Nvidia. Cpu. Then I'd get it

 

CPU is doing reasonably well, GPU not so much.

 

Looking at Time Spy the 4090 mobile does about 21K on notebookcheck.com while 100th place for the 4090 desktop card on 3Dmark.com is 41K and 100th for the 4080 30.5K - quite ridiculous to lag that much behind at the prices that these laptops fetch.

 

As for this being on Nvidia I am pretty sure that if laptop manufacturers all wanted 200, 225 or 250W they would get those, too but they are probably happy that the 4090 only goes up to 175W so that they do not have to invest in better cooling and their laptops can stay thin and light.

[saturnotaku]

3 hours ago, 1610ftw said:

 

It is quite obvious that we do not get to see any Time Spy benchmarks. Pretty sure Nvidia does not allow it at this point which in turn probably means they are less than flattering.

 

[1610ftw]

4 minutes ago, saturnotaku said:

 

Looks like some embargo was lifted today:

 

 

 

[ssj92]

Told y'all 4090 mobile will be faster than 3090 (some even 3090Ti)

 

The full 150w +25w boost models will be the best of course. 

 

Can't wait to play with one myself. Last laptop GPU I had was RTX 2080 (200w). 

 

Haven't had the pleasure to own 4000 series desktop GPUs but I had basically every 3000 series even 3090Ti so it'll be fun to get as much performance out of these new ones.  

 

These GPUs do better at higher resolutions, so QHD 165hz will be a good sweet spot

[VEGGIM]

1 hour ago, 1610ftw said:

 

CPU is doing reasonably well, GPU not so much.

 

Looking at Time Spy the 4090 mobile does about 21K on notebookcheck.com while 100th place for the 4090 desktop card on 3Dmark.com is 41K and 100th for the 4080 30.5K - quite ridiculous to lag that much behind at the prices that these laptops fetch.

 

As for this being on Nvidia I am pretty sure that if laptop manufacturers all wanted 200, 225 or 250W they would get those, too but they are probably happy that the 4090 only goes up to 175W so that they do not have to invest in better cooling and their laptops can stay thin and light.

Remember eluk failing to get a higher wattage. Not happening. Nvidia is strict. They wouldn't give a custom vbios to them so why would they for other companies.

[ssj92]

6 minutes ago, VEGGIM said:

Remember eluk failing to get a higher wattage. Not happening. Nvidia is strict. They wouldn't give a custom vbios to them so why would they for other companies.

A lot of people don't understand how strict nvidia is, especially with mobile products. 

 

OEMs can't just do what they want. After my A4500 MXM debacle I really got to work with a company to try and customize vBIOS and learned nVidia controls EVERYTHING. Simple change in vBIOS? Need to submit to Nvidia for approval and then validation.

[Etern4l]

1 hour ago, ssj92 said:

Told y'all 4090 mobile will be faster than 3090 (some even 3090Ti)

 

The full 150w +25w boost models will be the best of course. 

 

Can't wait to play with one myself. Last laptop GPU I had was RTX 2080 (200w). 

 

Haven't had the pleasure to own 4000 series desktop GPUs but I had basically every 3000 series even 3090Ti so it'll be fun to get as much performance out of these new ones.  

 

These GPUs do better at higher resolutions, so QHD 165hz will be a good sweet spot

 

https://www.notebookcheck.net/MSI-Titan-GT77-HX-13V-Review-Ultimate-Gaming-Laptop-with-RTX-4090-Core-i9-13950HX.691460.0.html

 

I mean most people should pause here. 6600 euros for a machine with a gimped 16GB 4090,  that can just about match previous gen 3090 Ti desktop (again, not in terms of memory capacity). Not really that exciting TBH, unless funding is completely unlimited or one must use a laptop at all cost.

[1610ftw]

59 minutes ago, VEGGIM said:

Remember eluk failing to get a higher wattage. Not happening. Nvidia is strict. They wouldn't give a custom vbios to them so why would they for other companies.

 

I am not talking about a single company wanting something.

I am talking about the 3 biggest manufacturers demanding something from Nvidia or else.

 

No chance obviously for a single manufacturer like Tongfang / Uniwill or Clevo but if Dell, HP and Lenovo would ask...

Believe me Nvidia would listen but the current state of affairs is probably rather convenient for everybody as Nvidia has less service cases and the laptop manufacturers do not have to build really powerful laptops any more.

[ssj92]

6 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

 

https://www.notebookcheck.net/MSI-Titan-GT77-HX-13V-Review-Ultimate-Gaming-Laptop-with-RTX-4090-Core-i9-13950HX.691460.0.html

 

I mean most people should pause here. 6600 euros for a machine with a gimped 16GB 4090,  that can just about match previous gen 3090 Ti desktop (again, not in terms of memory capacity). Not really that exciting TBH, unless must use a laptop at all cost.

That machine is clearly overpriced. 2x2TB SSDs & 64GB RAM from OEMs are normally a rip off. 

 

Better to buy best cpu/gpu only and leave rest low end and upgrade yourself. 

 

I did that with Area-51m R1, bought my own SSD/RAM, plan to do same with m18.

 

If you seen apple, they charge insane prices for RAM & SSD upgrade (although theirs cannot be upgraded). OEMs tend to be on the higher price as well 

[Etern4l]

4 minutes ago, ssj92 said:

That machine is clearly overpriced. 2x2TB SSDs & 64GB RAM from OEMs are normally a rip off. 

 

Better to buy best cpu/gpu only and leave rest low end and upgrade yourself. 

 

I did that with Area-51m R1, bought my own SSD/RAM, plan to do same with m18.

 

OK, even assuming some ridiculous markup of 100% over retail, how much can you shave off that price? 1500 (and I doubt that)? At $/E 5100 it would still hardly be a sensible purchase for most people, plus then you have to add the cost of purchasing your own 3rd party storage and RAM.

[ssj92]

5 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

 

OK, even assuming some ridiculous markup of 100% over retail, how much can you shave off that price? 1500 (and I doubt that)? At $/E 5100 it would still hardly be a sensible purchase for most people, plus then you have to add the cost of purchasing your own 3rd party storage and RAM.

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/msi-stealth-17-3-240hz-qhd-gaming-laptop-intel-core-i9-13900h-nvidia-geforce-rtx-4090-2tb-ssd-64gb-memory-black/6532165.p?skuId=6532165

 

This one still has 2TB SSD & 64GB RAM yet it is $3,999.99. 

 

Do not base price just on one specific laptop sku. 

 

Once they're all out by Friday or next week we will have a better idea. 

 

There was some even cheaper than this. Looks like best buy took it down. I seen 3499 a few days ago as well. 

[Papusan]

3 hours ago, VEGGIM said:

Are we talking about gpu wise. Or that the cpu can't go any higher. If it's the gpu. Then that's kinda on Nvidia. Cpu. Then I'd get it

With a abysmally low max power limits for the whole system, one of the two have to suffer. Feed the GPU with the max allowed 175w and the Cpu has to compete with rest of the hardware (included the screen). 

 

And with some of the new and shiny gamingbooks.... 2x M.2 slots in 18" chassis doesn't make them any better so quite tragic. 

 

Then we have latecy problems.... Not fun cope with your music on the $5000 purchase. Just lovely.

 

 

And the fun continue.... Voltage control is locked with both XTU and Throttlestop, but there is an undervolting option in the BIOS that allows for up to a -30 mV undervolt. And I expect the undervolt settings in bios will be a gooner before or later in same way as with the well known Plundervolt patch. Yep, we live in different times now.

[ryan]

not a bad price for a car? used porche right?

 

wait a minute for a laptop..????is this true

[Mr. Fox]

5 hours ago, Papusan said:

Yep, even with a bigger chassis as the big hype... 17,3 now 18" chassis size they couldn't offer a increase in power. And bigger cooling cost money. This is intended... They want you back in the stores fast as hell when next gen crippled models is out. The more castrated... The easyer is it to push you over on next gen Jokebooks. 

 

It is a mistake to judge a book (or a notebook) by its cover. Small size usually means compromise and diminished capacity. Being big on the outside does not mean big on the inside, or big performance. If the guts are no better than the small turdbook it is going to run like a small turdbook. It is more than probable that the extra size will include wasted/unused space to accommodate a larger screen and keyboard, but not a more robuse motherboard or an excellent cooling system.

[MyPC8MyBrain]

2 hours ago, ryan said:

is this true

i paid close to $4500 for my Precision 7770 with 12950HX, 3080Ti 16GB, 16GB SoDIMM ram, 256GB M.2, and 4k 120Hz, that's a very basic configuration maybe a month old by now (retail price for the unit is over $9k and also includes a 5 year manufacture bumper to bumper coverage),