*Official Benchmark Thread* - Post it here or it didn't happen :D

[Mr. Fox]

1 minute ago, Talon said:

 

Honestly I don't want them know my discovery and their oversight lol. 🤠

 

I'll gladly share it with you privately but not sure how much use it would be. Actually might be useful for those running custom situations. 

I don't think it would be of any use to me since I do not have that GPU and have no plans to own one. Rhetorical question, but isn't it getting a bit tiresome for us to have to burn calories on stupid driver and firmware workarounds to be able to use our hardware the way WE want to use it? I know I am growing weary of the nonstop stupidity and nonsense, and jumping through hoops because of their idiotic castration of hardware. It's too bad we don't get the same level of control over GPUs that we do over CPUs. We SHOULD, and we would if we got what we paid for.

[Talon]

Just now, Mr. Fox said:

I don't think it would be of any use to me since I do not have that GPU and have no plans to own one. Rhetorical question, but isn't it getting a bit tiresome for us to have to burn calories on stupid driver and firmware workarounds to be able to use our hardware the way WE want to use it? I know I am growing weary of the nonstop stupidity and nonsense, and jumping through hoops because of their idiotic castration of hardware. It's too bad we don't get the same level of control over GPUs that we do over CPUs. We SHOULD, and we would if we got what we paid for.

 

Absolutely ridiculous. I actually looked into Linux yesterday after reading about some of your successes with gaming on that platform. I've only briefly tried Linux way back in 2012 and I'm sure a lot has changed since then. I might install it on another drive to test out and learn. 

[Etern4l]

1 hour ago, Talon said:

 

Honestly I don't want them know my discovery and their oversight lol. 🤠

 

I'll gladly share it with you privately but not sure how much use it would be. Actually might be useful for those running custom situations. 

What’s the result of your discovery? It’s a 285W card and you mentioned you were running it at 280W?

[Talon]

1 minute ago, Etern4l said:

What’s the result of your discovery? It’s a 285W card and you mentioned you were running it at 280W?

 

Hey sorry I misspoke, it was indeed pulling 285w. I'm using a 320w  vBIOS from galax now. Oddly enough the cores on my card is just weak sauce. Could be the vBIOS, could be just it doesn't scale well. It's one sample. Highest I've gotten on PR is 16.8K and it pulled around 300-310w. So it would seem around 300w would be ideal for the card in most situations. Will have to try new drivers tomorrow. 

[electrosoft]

5 hours ago, cylix said:

So it looks like the 4070 Ti super is a dud. Not worth it over the 4070 TI.

https://www.techspot.com/review/2793-nvidia-geforce-rtx-4070-ti-super/

 

 

 

Well, if you're getting a slightly faster GPU and more importantly 16GB of VRAM vs 12GB of VRAM for the same price that has merit. Each tier of the "Super" cards has their standout upgrade:

 

4070 Super = Substantial core increase for the same original MSRP

4070 ti Super = Nice bump to memory with small bump to cores for the same original MSRP

4080 Super = Big price cut with a modest bump to cores

 

Greatest thing about the 4080 Super is it will force AMD to lower the 7900XTX pricing and the 4070 Ti Super will most likely keep those chronic "sales" on 7900XT cards into a more permanent state.

 

4070 Super is my pick this generation for Nvidia Bang:Buck. 4080 Super now makes more sense and is "less bad"

 

 

 

4 hours ago, jaybee83 said:

 

welp, nothing burger. with each new GPU release im getting happier that i got the 4090 on launch day 😄 

 

 

This.

 

I got mine a few months later and a full year later it is still providing top tier gaming performance.

 

 

[Papusan]

5 hours ago, Talon said:

Hardware Unboxed video is completely scuffed. Wrong SPECs for card in the video? They also used the MSI Ventus card with a bunked vBIOS, even after being told it had a faulty vBIOS. Instead of redoing the video with updated vBIOS or using a different card, they went with the screwed card and claimed it's only 1%. That isn't even close to true. You can see this in by looking at TPU which published a lot of 4070 Ti Super card reviews and it's clear, the MSI is on average 6-7% slower across the board vs other brand 4070 Ti Super cards. 

 

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/msi-geforce-rtx-4070-ti-super-ventus-3x/

 

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/asus-geforce-rtx-4070-ti-super-tuf/

 

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/pny-geforce-rtx-4070-ti-super-verto-oc/

 

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/galax-geforce-rtx-4070-ti-super-ex-white/

 

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/palit-geforce-rtx-4070-ti-super-jetstream-oc/

 

 

 

I'm quite sure Nvidia messed up this launch. And there is no FE model so.......... 

 

In terms of ROP count you're now getting 96 (this is the correct number, I confirmed with NVIDIA, 112 is a typo in the reviewer's guide), which is a 20% increase over the 80 ROPs on 4070 Ti. The RTX 4080 is still expected to be significantly faster, mostly thanks to its 9728 GPU cores, larger cache and 112 ROPs.

 

With the new BIOS the performance is very close to the other MSRP cards, but still around 1% lower. While it's impossible to notice subjectively, it's still there, but considering how quickly NVIDIA and MSI pushed out BIOS updates, I'm sure that there will be more updates down the road.

 

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/msi-geforce-rtx-4070-ti-super-ventus-3x/44.html

 

5 hours ago, cylix said:

So it looks like the 4070 Ti super is a dud. Not worth it over the 4070 TI.

 

Performance vs the price... No doubt. But Nvidia messed up. No xx70 cards whatever it contains the Ti, Super or the Ti Super branding should cost +$799. It's perverse. Or better say.....

[Etern4l]

1 hour ago, electrosoft said:

 

4080 Super = Big price cut with a modest bump to cores

 

I got mine a few months later and a full year later it is still providing top tier gaming performance.

 

 

You got lucky that way, yet they are still indirectly devaluing the 4090 via the 4080S.
 

Many gamers today would be hard pressed to pay almost 100% premium for the extra RAM and +17% performance on average (techpowerup), and those who can leverage a multi-GPU setup might well prefer 2x4080S with 32GB of VRAM to a single 4090. We can expect primary and secondary markets to respond to that (unless 4080S gets gimped/messed up on purpose).

Anyway, one could have expected a 4090 refresh by now, or at least a price cut, but I guess they have been too busy with the all-important 4090D and AI units, and/or just waiting to see if they can milk enthusiasts and pros a bit more (in absence of any competitive pressure, to be fair).

[electrosoft]

7 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

You got lucky that way, yet they are still indirectly devaluing the 4090 via the 4080S.
 

Many gamers today would be hard pressed to pay almost 100% premium for the extra RAM and +17% performance on average (techpowerup), and those who can leverage a multi-GPU setup might well prefer 2x4080S with 32GB of VRAM to a single 4090.

One could have expected a 4090 refresh by now, or at least a price cut, but I guess they have been too busy with the all-important 4090D and AI units, and/or just waiting to see if they can milk enthusiasts and pros a bit more (in absence of any competitive pressure, to be fair).

 

Agreed especially depending on setup dual 4080's might make more sense.

 

Zero reason to price cut the 4090 for many reasons. The "temporary new norm" prices for the 4090 on Newegg is $2k+ for all cards available even sold and shipped from Newegg....ugh.

 

 

[Etern4l]

26 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

 

Agreed especially depending on setup dual 4080's might make more sense.

 

Zero reason to price cut the 4090 for many reasons. The "temporary new norm" prices for the 4090 on Newegg is $2k+ for all cards available even sold and shipped from Newegg....ugh.

 

 

That’s weird. Stock to boot here sub 2k.

It’s possible they are playing the scarcity game again in preparation for a 4090S drop or are just diverting units overseas in the form of “compliant” 4090Ds. We’ll need to wait like a month for the dust from the 4080 S drop to settle.

 

!remindme 1 month e v E: where are we with 4090 pricing? 😉

[Papusan]

28 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

That’s weird. Stock to boot here sub 2k.

It’s possible they are playing the scarcity game again in preparation for a 4090S drop or are just diverting units overseas in the form of “compliant” 4090Ds. We’ll need to wait like a month for the dust from the 4080 S drop to settle.

 

!remindme 1 month e v E: where are we with 4090 pricing? 😉

AD102 chips going into AI and workstation cards. And loads of them going into China from other countries. 
 

And U.S government can’t do anything about this. This way nvidia can also help to keep prices well above MSRP. NVIDIA and their partners is the real scalpers. 
 

We may see if Nvidia offer low stock of the 4080 Super.

[Talon]

59 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

 

Agreed especially depending on setup dual 4080's might make more sense.

 

Zero reason to price cut the 4090 for many reasons. The "temporary new norm" prices for the 4090 on Newegg is $2k+ for all cards available even sold and shipped from Newegg....ugh.

 

 

 

Looks like 4090 stock is normalizing again though. My local MCs have plenty in stock at normal pricing again. Strix tariff still in place at $1999 for OC model. 

[electrosoft]

7 minutes ago, Talon said:

 

Looks like 4090 stock is normalizing again though. My local MCs have plenty in stock at normal pricing again. Strix tariff still in place at $1999 for OC model. 

 

Sometimes it is differentiating between inflated pricing universally and Newegg being...well....Newegg. 🤣

 

 

[Etern4l]

1 hour ago, Papusan said:

AD102 chips going into AI and workstation cards. And loads of them going into China from other countries. 

 

Well, kind of. Datacentre AI cards use H100, a different chip, the full fat AD102s are going to the lighter AI/workstation cards (most likely the reason why there has been no 4090Ti/S), the cut down AD102s go to gamers/pros on a budget in the form of 4090, and 4090D gets (in theory) further scraps from that. I guess pricing/availability depends on the AD102 yield in each of those buckets and on the demand for 4090Ds. If there is strong demand/price support for 4090Ds in a region of implied reference, what's stopping NVidia from just disabling cores on the 4090 AD102 and selling them off there as 4090D? BTW I'm sure Jensen&co would be super-duper extra careful to ensure that those disabled Cores cannot be re-enabled by flashing a different VBIOS for example...

 

Actually, are those "significantly limited" 4090Ds available in the West? Could be an interesting offering for those who care more about the VRAM than the 10% performance loss (in case there really is no workaround...). Couldn't find any.

[Papusan]

1 hour ago, Talon said:

 

Looks like 4090 stock is normalizing again though. My local MCs have plenty in stock at normal pricing again. Strix tariff still in place at $1999 for OC model. 

 

According to my aacount of purchase/return statistics... (4090 Suprime X). The price has gone up by 295.23 USD. Yep the Norwegian retail have ok stock of cards but they are all 10-18% higher priced than summer 2023. 

 

None of they follow MSRP anymore. Yes, the currency is volatile (NOK vs $) but prices are still much higher than they were.

 

59 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

 

Well, kind of. Datacentre AI cards use H100, a different chip, the full fat AD102s are going to the lighter AI/workstation cards (most likely the reason why there has been no 4090Ti/S), the cut down AD102s go to gamers/pros on a budget in the form of 4090, and 4090D gets (in theory) further scraps from that. I guess pricing/availability depends on the AD102 yield in each of those buckets and on the demand for 4090Ds. If there is strong demand/price support for 4090Ds in a region of implied reference, what's stopping NVidia from just disabling cores on the 4090 AD102 and selling them off there as 4090D? BTW I'm sure Jensen&co would be super-duper extra careful to ensure that those disabled Cores cannot be re-enabled by flashing a different VBIOS for example...

 

Actually, are those "significantly limited" 4090Ds available in the West? Could be an interesting offering for those who care more about the VRAM than the 10% performance loss (in case there really is no workaround...). Couldn't find any.

 

Nvidia sell cut down AD102 chips for China and AI/workstation cards. And I expect Nvidia also cut down fully working chips with intent only to grab higher prices than they can get for 4090 gamer cards. If they can profits from cutting down fully working AD102 dies for 4090's then they will do that. If they can't sell fully working AD102 chips to China then they will cut them to fit.

 

 

[Etern4l]

14 minutes ago, Papusan said:

 

According to my aacount of purchase/return statistics... (4090 Suprime X). The price has gone up by 295.23 USD. Yep the Norwegian retail have ok stock of cards but they are all 10-18% higher priced than summer 2023. 

 

None of they follow MSRP anymore. Yes, the currency is volatile (NOK vs $) but prices are still much higher than they were.

 

 

Nvidia sell cut down AD102 chips for China and AI/workstation cards. And I expect Nvidia also cut down fully working chips with intent only to grab higher prices than they can get for 4090 gamer cards. If they can profits from cutting down fully working AD102 dies for 4090's then they will do that. If they can't sell fully working AD102 chips to China then they will cut them to fit.

 

 

Which professional cards use cut-down AD102? The below would suggest: none. 

 

https://www.anandtech.com/show/18781/nvidia-unveils-rtx-ada-lovelace-gpus-for-laptops-desktop-rtx-4000-sff

 

There is no Ada version of A5500 or A5000?

[Papusan]

1 hour ago, Etern4l said:

Which professional cards use cut-down AD102? The below would suggest: none. 

 

https://www.anandtech.com/show/18781/nvidia-unveils-rtx-ada-lovelace-gpus-for-laptops-desktop-rtx-4000-sff

 

There is no Ada version of A5500 or A5000?

 

No one know EVGA flooded China with special PSUs designed only for mining. No one should know it because EVGA was a gamer brand. And no in hell I would trust Nvidia and their partners in regions near close to China that still isn't banned. Nvidia walk their own ways if increased profits is possible. Yup, gaming is still a part of nvidia.... Because they need to get rid of the cut down silicon. You can't use AD103/104 silicon for etc AI servers. No one would pay extra for that.

 

See also https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/tech-news-nvidia-unveils-special-edition-rtx-5880-ada-china--rqjwc?trk=article-ssr-frontend-pulse_more-articles_related-content-card#:~:text=The NVIDIA RTX 5880 Ada,core with 48GB of VRAM.

 

 https://www.smbom.com/news/13080?trk=article-ssr-frontend-pulse_little-text-block

 

In the specifications realm, the NVIDIA RTX 5880 Ada boasts a streamlined AD102 GPU core, featuring 14,080 CUDA cores and 440 Tensor cores. This represents a 22% reduction in core count compared to its counterpart, the RTX 6000 Ada. Operating at a core frequency of approximately 2.5 GHz, it delivers 69.3 TFLOPs of FP32 computing power and 1108 TFLOPs of Tensor performance. Notably, FP32 and Tensor core performance registers a 24% decrease compared to the RTX 6000 Ada. 

 

Edit. If it wasn't for AI we would have seen 4080Ti cards at $1399 from AD102 by now.

[Etern4l]

15 minutes ago, Papusan said:

 

No one know EVGA flooded China with special PSUs designed only for mining. No one should know it because EVGA was a gamer brand. And no in hell I would trust Nvidia and their partners in regions near close to China that still isn't banned. Nvidia walk their own ways if increased profits is possible. Yup, gaming is still a part of nvidia.... Because they need to get rid of the cut down silicon. You can't use AD103/104 silicon for etc AI servers. No one would pay extra for that.

 

See also https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/tech-news-nvidia-unveils-special-edition-rtx-5880-ada-china--rqjwc?trk=article-ssr-frontend-pulse_more-articles_related-content-card#:~:text=The NVIDIA RTX 5880 Ada,core with 48GB of VRAM.

 

 https://www.smbom.com/news/13080?trk=article-ssr-frontend-pulse_little-text-block

 

In the specifications realm, the NVIDIA RTX 5880 Ada boasts a streamlined AD102 GPU core, featuring 14,080 CUDA cores and 440 Tensor cores. This represents a 22% reduction in core count compared to its counterpart, the RTX 6000 Ada. Operating at a core frequency of approximately 2.5 GHz, it delivers 69.3 TFLOPs of FP32 computing power and 1108 TFLOPs of Tensor performance. Notably, FP32 and Tensor core performance registers a 24% decrease compared to the RTX 6000 Ada. 

OK, these measures (4090D and RTX 5880) do absolutely nothing to curtail AI research in the region of reference, although I guess Nvidia is happy to sell cut down units at elevated prices. However, these are still lower-end devices. If the H100 is completely banned, that would actually slow things down, but also cause higher demand for the 5880 AD102 units which kind of provide a way to side step the ban for many applications.

[Tenoroon]

7 hours ago, Talon said:

 

Absolutely ridiculous. I actually looked into Linux yesterday after reading about some of your successes with gaming on that platform. I've only briefly tried Linux way back in 2012 and I'm sure a lot has changed since then. I might install it on another drive to test out and learn. 

One of my buddies has been hounding me now that I've built a new system. "I'll buy you a 256gb SSD if you install and learn Gentoo." I've been interested in learning, and it seems Gentoo, while extremely difficult, is a good starting point for learning how Linux, and operating systems in general work. I might be taking him up on the deal lol.

[Etern4l]

8 minutes ago, Tenoroon said:

One of my buddies has been hounding me now that I've built a new system. "I'll buy you a 256gb SSD if you install and learn Gentoo." I've been interested in learning, and it seems Gentoo, while extremely difficult, is a good starting point for learning how Linux, and operating systems in general work. I might be taking him up on the deal lol.

Depending on how technical you are, Gentoo is probably one of the worst distros to start with. You used to have to compile everything form scratch - it’s kind of educational, but I would recommend you start with a distro where people have already done the hardest bits for you, and tailored things to your use cases. There is a lot to learn regardless. Negotiate the SSD deal down to some Ubuntu or Arch derivative lol

[Papusan]

43 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

OK, these measures (4090D and RTX 5880) do absolutely nothing to curtail AI research in the region of reference, although I guess Nvidia is happy to sell cut down units at elevated prices. However, these are still lower-end devices. If the H100 is completely banned, that would actually slow things down.

 

Yup, if you can keep up the prices to max your profits increase as well. Nvidia's CEO Jensen ain't much different than the CEO for HP. 

 

HP CEO justifies blocking third-party ink cartridges by claiming they can inject malware

 

Edit. Nice.... The new Super boat from Zotac for $1400. That's $400 premium. Or $200 below the vanilla 4090's orginal MSRP.

 

 

AMP Extreme AIRO priced at $1,399.99, excluding state tax. This pricing strategy suggests a confident stance from Zotac, especially when compared to the higher-tier GeForce RTX 4090 and potential offerings from competitors like ASUS's ROG Strix GeForce RTX 4080 Super.
https://www.guru3d.com/story/zotac-lists-geforce-rtx-4080-super-models-ahead-of-schedule-on-amazon/

 

5 hours ago, Papusan said:

I'm quite sure Nvidia messed up this launch. And there is no FE model so.......... 

 

Not even the 3rd vbios version in a row for the Msi 4070 Ti Super Ventus X3 probably won't fix it fully. Hmmm. 

 

The big question, however, is how many of the first buyers of this card will know about the problem and therefore will do the update. However, if a problem of this type occurs shortly before the market launch, there is hardly any possibility of correction. Not selling the model would be the only option.

 

https://www.hardwareluxx.de/index.php/artikel/hardware/grafikkarten/62759-mehr-speicher-zum-gleichen-preis-die-geforce-rtx-4070-ti-super-im-test.html

 

 

[Tenoroon]

1 hour ago, Etern4l said:

Depending on how technical you are, Gentoo is probably one of the worst distros to start with. You used to have to compile everything form scratch - it’s kind of educational, but I would recommend you start with a distro where people have already done the hardest bits for you, and tailored things to your use cases. There is a lot to learn regardless. Negotiate the SSD deal down to some Ubuntu or Arch derivative lol

Yeah, everything besides my buddy is telling me this isn't a good idea, and I know my first install would probably be, rough, but that's where the learning stems from in my opinion. I'm still thinking about it...

@Talon Did you ever flash the Gigabyte 350w vBIOS onto your 4070 Super? I might do so as I have dual BIOS and don't mind getting my hardware flasher if needed, but I'm unsure if it works (or if it does work, if it is worth).

I know flashing different vBIOSes can be goofy and can be bad long term if the components of the intended card differ from what you're flashing to. While my Dual's FETs and Controller for the Core are the same (besides 2 less rails compared to the Gigabyte card), the Dual has different FETs for the Memory compared to the Gigabyte card. The FETs in question have similar names though and are by the same company, so I might compare them to see how similar they are.

[Mr. Fox]

1 hour ago, Tenoroon said:

One of my buddies has been hounding me now that I've built a new system. "I'll buy you a 256gb SSD if you install and learn Gentoo." I've been interested in learning, and it seems Gentoo, while extremely difficult, is a good starting point for learning how Linux, and operating systems in general work. I might be taking him up on the deal lol.

Why not just buy a 256GB NVMe and install anything you want? Linux is free and a 256GB internal drive should be, too. I'd give you one for free, but the postage would cost more than the value of the drive.

 

Seriously though... Super easy, you can shrink your Windows partition and install Linux in the free space on the same drive. There is no need for the additional drive if you are just wanting to kick the tires.

[Tenoroon]

4 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

Why not just buy a 256GB NVMe and install anything you want? Linux is free and a 256GB internal drive should be, too. I'd give you one for free, but the postage would cost more than the value of the drive.

 

Seriously though... Super easy, you can shrink your Windows partition and install Linux in the free space on the same drive. There is no need for the additional drive if you are just wanting to kick the tires.

Yeah, the transaction (if you can call it that) would've included an NVME drive. I have 3 256gb M.2 drives, but they are all Sata and it's a bummer that the AM5 platform doesn't support M.2 Sata. 

I could dual boot, but I've heard (and seen) horror stories from dual boots. I also wouldn't want to accidently nuke my Windows install if I did anything terribly in Linux. 

[Etern4l]

33 minutes ago, Tenoroon said:

Yeah, the transaction (if you can call it that) would've included an NVME drive. I have 3 256gb M.2 drives, but they are all Sata and it's a bummer that the AM5 platform doesn't support M.2 Sata. 

I could dual boot, but I've heard (and seen) horror stories from dual boots. I also wouldn't want to accidently nuke my Windows install if I did anything terribly in Linux. 

Just to mention the obvious, you don’t need any deals to start playing around with Linux safely. Just a bit of free disk space and a virtual machine hypervisor: VIrtualBox, or VMWare on Windoze I guess.

 

 

 

[Papusan]

1 hour ago, Tenoroon said:

I have 3 256gb M.2 drives, but they are all Sata and it's a bummer that the AM5 platform doesn't support M.2 Sata. 

Can't you use something similar to this? 

 

Feed ir from the PCI_E3 Gen PCIe 4.0 that supports up to x4 (From Chipset).

https://www.fruugo.fr/m2-sata-to-pcie-adapter-card-dual-disk-card-raid-expansion-card-pciex1-to-ngff-m2-sata6g-riser-car/p-194839176-415450609?language=en

 

Or use a case like this