Laptop won't boot even after removing CMOS battery...

[kaz26]

 

I was testing different RAM modules and was loosening up the timings on this set of (32GBx2) Mushkin Redline that was giving me problems with XMP profile 1, it corrupted some windows files after a couple BSODs. That was a week ago. Yesterday, I decided to try the RAM again with looser timings. It booted the first time, but was glitchy still and had some errors, so I loosened the timings a little more and when I exited BIOS to restart the PC the keyboard lit up, then it shut off and didn't turn back on. 

I then hit the power button to turn it back on and it did the same thing. The keyboard lit up for a second, then the system shut down. 

Sometimes it runs for 3 seconds, sometimes it shuts off almost immediately after I push it. Keyboard light changes from Blue to Green, then shuts off. However, something changed a bit when I swapped the CPU, see #4 below. 

What I have tried:

 

1.)  Removed CMOS battery, laptop latter and power cord for several minutes after holding down the power button to drain the remaining energy. This did nothing as far as helping the system. 
 

2.) Removed RAM and tried starting the PC. It did the same thing, Ran for 1-3 seconds and shut off. 

 

3.) Tried starting the system without RAM or Hard Drive. The same thing happened. 

* 4.) Swapped CPU - This is where something finally changed, however, not by much. It now runs for about a minute, the keyboard light changes from Blue to Green to Red and back to Blue where it stays for 1--15 seconds, then it shuts off without every showing anything on the screen. 

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I don't know what this could be or what I should do next. I'm leaning toward this being a corrupt BIOS, but I am not sure and that's why I am asking for help with this. 

[MyPC8MyBrain]

did you try disconnecting the systems main battery running on DC power only?

(when you remove cmos battery you should also have your main battery disconnected otherwise it defeats the purpose!)

 

FYI: when you remove RAM and power the system it should beep at you constantly,
if it didn't something broke before the ram gets powered,

 

[kaz26]

When I disconnected the CMOS battery, I also had the main battery out and also disconnected the power adapter so that no power was connected to the machine. 

I tried starting 3 different ways: Battery only, Power adapter only, and with both power adapter and battery connected. The same thing happens. 
In all three scenarios, the same thing occurs. 

 

The only time I saw any change was when I swapped out the CPU, however, the computer still will not start. It simply powers on, and the laptop changes color from blue to green to red and back to blue where it stays for about 30 seconds and shuts off on its own. 

Thank you for the suggestions and information @MyPC8MyBrain

Does this seem like it could be a bad BIOS chip?  I would like to try and identify the problem before I start soldering on the motherboard. 

 

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 

 

In the instance this is a bad BIOS chip I have ordered the BIOS chip required plus a few extras just so that I have them if needed. 
For programming the BIOS I have a TL866ii Plus which has the chip #MX25L25673GZ4I-08G  on the supported device list. So I shouldn't have a problem programming the new chip. Soldering it on shouldn't be too challenging either. I have a hot air soldering station as well as a decent soldering iron. 
 

[kaz26]

On 2/20/2023 at 1:01 AM, MyPC8MyBrain said:

 

FYI: when you remove RAM and power the system it should beep at you constantly,
if it didn't something broke before the ram gets powered,

 

 

What would you do next if this was your machine? @MyPC8MyBrain

 

* * * * * 

I am not a pro like some of you, but I am also not a total noob. I try to push my laptop as far as possible because I love this stuff and want to learn as much as I can. I appreciate all of the help I am offered. 

* * * * * 

 

Once again, the fans come on during the 30 seconds that it runs, and they respond to the fn+D command. The keyboard changes color as well. 

 

If there is a failure somewhere on the motherboard, I am willing to try and repair it myself and I will document it and post it. I'm willing to see this through if I can get the right help with it. I want to learn this stuff, I'm not just looking for help to get quick answers. 

 

[MyPC8MyBrain]

@kaz26

disconnect the main system battery,

after that disconnect cmos battery,

next reconnect cmos battery,

only then try powering the system with just power brick (keeping systems main battery disconnected),

[Custom90gt]

I would only add that after you disconnect the cmos battery try pushing the power button for like 10 seconds before plugging it back in.  Try to discharge any additional capacitance in the system.  Also if you have different ram sticks to try, I would because maybe it will try to get the new SPD values off of them.

[kaz26]

Alright, so I did that and now it's doing something different. Before it would not power back on without me pressing the power button, but now it is stuck in a loop of powering on and shutting off. I have several different RAM sticks and tried this with all of them, finally resulting in something new with the Kingston RAM. 

I press the power button, it turns on, the keyboard changes color Blue>Green>Red>Blue and stays on blue until it turns off about 30 seconds later, then it turns back on and does it over again repeatedly. 

[Custom90gt]

Some googling shows that maybe holding the fn + d keys during boot may reset the bios. 

 

Which laptop is this on btw?

[kaz26]

Laptop model:  Clevo N960Kx  (N960KR) 

 

This model has a RTX3070 on the motherboard, LGA 1200 CPU socket, two NVME SSD slots, a 2.5" SATA drive bay, and two RAM sockets. 

- - - - - - 

I tried holding fn+d, probably ten times now just in case I didn't do it fast enough or at the right time. I tried hitting it repeatedly, I tried starting it while holding fn+d as well. I have been doing google searches for days now. I am just trying to make sure I didn't miss something before I start the disassembly and soldering process with the BIOS. I'm adding a link to a video of what the PC does when I hit the power button. It first shuts off immediately, then turns back on and does the routine mentioned already. 

 

Also, I ordered the BIOS chip part # MX25L25673GZ4I-08G, I ordered three. I also had to order an adapter since I haven't had the need to program a wson8 before. So those parts will get here in about 10 days or so. Before I mess with soldering a new BIOS, I will do some testing with a multimeter to try and confirm it's the problem. 

- - - - - - 
 

 

[MyPC8MyBrain]

what happens if you let it loop for a while?
maybe your power supply is giving up, do you have another power supply that will fit?

the screen is not flickering, try connecting external monitor maybe bios has some message with timeout you cannot see?
if there is no OS the system will reboot, if the screen is defective that's how it looks,

[kaz26]

This is good info, I appreciate, thank you. No signal displays from the HDMI, I ordered a minidisplay port to HDMI cable, it should be here tomorrow. I also ordered a larger power supply that should arrive soon.

 

I let it loop over ten times, on the charger with no change. It does not loop on battery.
 

[Meaker]

A slower stick of ram might help get it to boot.

[kaz26]

Hey Meaker, I appreciate seeing you here, thank you. I tried a G.Skill DDR4 3000MHz RAM stick as well as a Kingston DDR4 2400MHZ, both were 16GB modules. There was no change. 

I connected the laptop to an external monitor, but there was no output signal. 

I used a new Celeron CPU and looked closely at the pins to make sure they were all straight and they were, but there was still no change. 

I am still waiting on the adapter (7.4x5.0mm Female to 5.5x2.5mm male) for the new 330W power supply, I couldn't find one that was near me. 

I have also tried using a USB boot drive. 

I have also tested the NVME SSD in another system and it is fine. 
 

 

[kaz26]

The new power adapter did not make any difference. 

I think it's time to externally program the BIOS. The adapter arrives tomorrow. If there are any other ideas before I do this, please let me know. 

[kaz26]

I received the BIOS chip adapter, but I don't want to rush into this and have been practicing my soldering on an old damaged motherboard I have. I have some skills with an iron, but I do not have much experience with hot air soldering. 

[razor0601]

Your Bios chip is not as easy as SOIC chips to desolder. Normally you have also to work with bottom heat. 

[User]

I feel like I went through the same thing when adjusting RAM timings on my Clevo last year. It would light the power indicator lights, flash keyboard lights, then shut off. Occasionally, it would stay on, but no display and no indication of POSTing. It sat for over a month, I tried every keyboard trick in the book to boot with no success.

 

What I ended up doing was grabbing a .bios file from another Clevo owner with same model. Likely also available from manufacturer website. I hooked up a CH341a programmer and read the BIOS file off the chip. Totally corrupted. I used the downloaded file to reflash my bios chip, and it booted again. I essentially followed a Guru3D forum step-by-step of how to use the programmer. Purchased on Amazon for about $12.

 

https://www.amazon.com/SMAKN-Programmer-CH341A-Burner-EEPROM/dp/B013Q5P3ES

https://winraid.level1techs.com/t/guide-flash-bios-with-ch341a-programmer/32948

 

Are you sure de-soldering and soldering is necessary? Can you hook up a programmer and read the current file and check for corruption? I could be wrong and maybe your model does not have the same chip and flash capability as mine, but figure I'd share a possible solution.

[Mufuggaa]

On 2/21/2023 at 9:51 AM, kaz26 said:

Alright, so I did that and now it's doing something different. Before it would not power back on without me pressing the power button, but now it is stuck in a loop of powering on and shutting off. I have several different RAM sticks and tried this with all of them, finally resulting in something new with the Kingston RAM. 

I press the power button, it turns on, the keyboard changes color Blue>Green>Red>Blue and stays on blue until it turns off about 30 seconds later, then it turns back on and does it over again repeatedly. 

This is what my N960KR is doing now after messing around with the bios settings. It's similar to when I first unlocked it after entering the reset command, it rebooted and did the same bootloop maybe 3 times then finally came up with the style note screen and I was able to go to bios and everything was unlocked. This time though it just won't boot up no matter what. I'm hoping there is a way to reflash the bios without having to desolder but if I have to then I will go ahead and do that. Please keep us updated and let us know if/how you end up solving this, it would really help. 

 

 

Thank you! 

[raptorddd]

14 hours ago, kaz26 said:

I received the BIOS chip adapter, but I don't want to rush into this and have been practicing my soldering on an old damaged motherboard I have. I have some skills with an iron, but I do not have much experience with hot air soldering. 

why not take it to a cellhphone shop.? i tried the clamp and after 5 tries it wore off. had to take it to a cell phone shope and have the guy desolder and then solder it to the plate once programmed then i  went back and the person solder it back to the motherboard. but i did this like 4 times because of a bad flash . so decided to uy new clamp and learned how to carefully grab onto chip and flash it.

 

my dell would freeze at the dell logo. pressing any key did nothing. after flashing with ch341a it booted

[kaz26]

@razor0601 You're 100% and I do not have the setup for it. I did some practicing on another board, but was not able to remove the hson8 on it without half the chips around it moving around so I am not going to try and attempt this. If it was a SOIC chip I wouldn't have a problem doing it, I have done it several time before successfully, but these WSON chips are a different story. 

 

@User I agree that this is the problem. I decided to not try and desolder it. It's too risky and there is a clip that will work. It is specific for these type of chips. They have pogo type pins that retract and I believe it has to be held in place during the programming. I just ordered the one I attached a pic of. 

 

@Mufuggaa Will do. This probe I bought will take about 2 weeks to get here unfortunately. 

 

@raptorddd Thank you for this. I am going to try the clip method. I have done this with a SOIC8 and did not have a problem, but this is a WSON8. What type chip did you have?

 

To everyone, I appreciate the encouragement to keep going with this and I will see it through, but if anyone knows of a place that sells this motherboard, I would like to also buy a motherboard. 

Thank you!!

[raptorddd]

1 hour ago, kaz26 said:

@razor0601 You're 100% and I do not have the setup for it. I did some practicing on another board, but was not able to remove the hson8 on it without half the chips around it moving around so I am not going to try and attempt this. If it was a SOIC chip I wouldn't have a problem doing it, I have done it several time before successfully, but these WSON chips are a different story. 

 

@User I agree that this is the problem. I decided to not try and desolder it. It's too risky and there is a clip that will work. It is specific for these type of chips. They have pogo type pins that retract and I believe it has to be held in place during the programming. I just ordered the one I attached a pic of. 

 

@Mufuggaa Will do. This probe I bought will take about 2 weeks to get here unfortunately. 

 

@raptorddd Thank you for this. I am going to try the clip method. I have done this with a SOIC8 and did not have a problem, but this is a WSON8. What type chip did you have?

 

To everyone, I appreciate the encouragement to keep going with this and I will see it through, but if anyone knows of a place that sells this motherboard, I would like to also buy a motherboard. 

Thank you!!

mine was a soic8 chip.  

[kaz26]

If the BIOS is bad, I will consider getting a WSON8 socket and have someone solder it on for me, it's not worth the risk for me to try and do it. Again, if it was a SOIC chip I wouldn't have a problem. I need to upgrade my soldering equipment for flat packages and practice alot more before attempting it for something like this. 

 

[Mufuggaa]

On 2/26/2023 at 4:16 PM, kaz26 said:

If the BIOS is bad, I will consider getting a WSON8 socket and have someone solder it on for me, it's not worth the risk for me to try and do it. Again, if it was a SOIC chip I wouldn't have a problem. I need to upgrade my soldering equipment for flat packages and practice alot more before attempting it for something like this. 

 

Hey kaz, any updates? Were you able to get your system fixed?

[kaz26]

Hello @Mufuggaa, I do have an update and it is good news! I grew tired of waiting for the WSON8 adapter to arrive so I made one. I will spare the details, but it took me two attempts to make one that worked and I managed to successfully program the chip and it fixed the problem. I will post images of the adapter I made, but I cannot recommend using this method as it took half a day and was tedious work. If I hadn't done work like this in the past I wouldn't have tried it. I have done a fair amount of prototyping in the past with circuits and making DIY PCBs. 

The pic I attached shows the adapter with the ethernet wires I used to connect it to the TL866II plus programmer. I bought the pogo pins on amazon, they arrived in a day. I will post more on this later if you'd like and if you have any questions, just ask. 

 

Also, the BIOS chips arrived, but I only got 3 of them. They were easy to program with the socket I bought as well. I will probably keep one of the chips just in case I need it in the future. 
 

[kaz26]

I want to thank everyone again for all the help you offered, I appreciate it very much.