br2 Posted February 23 Author Share Posted February 23 26 minutes ago, 1610ftw said: For new installations indeed cat8 seems to be the way to go for copper cables but if I already had cat7 everywhere i would not get all worked up about it as 10G is still plenty fast. I was starting to contemplate rerunning the cable in the wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1610ftw Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 32 minutes ago, br2 said: I was starting to contemplate rerunning the cable in the wall. Better save that for when you have 25G 😄 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2 Posted April 6 Author Share Posted April 6 Don't use its displayport to connect to a 5 year old tv's hdmi. It causes some weird backup that degrades performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2 Posted April 15 Author Share Posted April 15 It appears that Windows throttles mobile cpu more aggressively since ~~ February 2024. It makes notebooks unsuited for use as workstations for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1610ftw Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 1 hour ago, br2 said: It appears that Windows throttles mobile cpu more aggressively since ~~ February 2024. It makes notebooks unsuited for use as workstations for me. How would that even be possible when you are using Throttlestop and an unlocked 13900HX? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2 Posted April 15 Author Share Posted April 15 18 minutes ago, 1610ftw said: How would that even be possible when you are using Throttlestop and an unlocked 13900HX? I reinstalled Windows when i got it and never had that installed. I'll try it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
win32asmguy Posted April 15 Share Posted April 15 I had been following that issue (also from the post in the Windows section) and hoped a reasonable solution had been found. My thought was maybe Speedshift EPP had been erroneously manipulated by either a Windows update change, MSI Center or potentially even the EC. I do know that MSI pushed a bios update for the GT77 13th Gen last year that now limits sustained CPU TDP to around 120W regardless of the GPU state, CPU temperature or any other metric. Desktop - Xeon W7-2495X, 64GB DDR5-6400 C32 ECC, 800GB Optane P5800X, MSI RTX 4080 Super Ventus 3X OC, Corsair HX1500i, Fractal Define 7 XL, Asus W790E-SAGE SE, Windows 10 Pro 22H2 Clevo PE60SNE - 14900HX, 32GB DDR5-5600 CL40, 4TB WD SN850X, RTX 4070 mobile, 16.0 inch FHD+ 165hz, System76 open source firmware, Windows 10 Pro 22H2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2 Posted April 15 Author Share Posted April 15 6 hours ago, win32asmguy said: I had been following that issue (also from the post in the Windows section) and hoped a reasonable solution had been found. My thought was maybe Speedshift EPP had been erroneously manipulated by either a Windows update change, MSI Center or potentially even the EC. I do know that MSI pushed a bios update for the GT77 13th Gen last year that now limits sustained CPU TDP to around 120W regardless of the GPU state, CPU temperature or any other metric. I'm not crazy about changing the cpu defaults to get back to baseline, but i'll do it if it saves me 5 minutes on unzip. Xtu says overclocking's disabled. I've got a ticket open with Msi. 🤞🤓🥂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2 Posted April 15 Author Share Posted April 15 1 hour ago, br2 said: ... I've got a ticket open with Msi. 🤞 Msi says life is hard, then you die... "Dear Customer, that means your particualar CPU cannot be overclocked. It is part of the silicon lottery draw when it was manufactuered by Intel." I see support traffic saying people were able to overclock before a recent bios update. If i were earlier in my career, i'd be looking for a luggable. I'll live with this one as my last dtr notebook. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1610ftw Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 8 hours ago, br2 said: Msi says life is hard, then you die... "Dear Customer, that means your particualar CPU cannot be overclocked. It is part of the silicon lottery draw when it was manufactuered by Intel." I see support traffic saying people were able to overclock before a recent bios update. If i were earlier in my career, i'd be looking for a luggable. I'll live with this one as my last dtr notebook. Always nice to be mocked by level 1 support after the machine was messed up through their firmware updates. From what I have seen MSI used to be pretty good with allowing CPUs to attain the maximum power the system could sustain and maybe I could understand them setting the long term limit to 160 or 150W with these new CPUs that in theory could be set to consume south of 200W which is just a bit too much but going down to 120W is a waste of the 13980HX. For now you may want to check how much you can undervolt your GT77 with the new target of 120W - it should still give you quite good performance even with 120W and an optimized undervolt should at least give you 10% higher performance than stock so if you did not undervolt before your performance will probably be quite similar and not suffer that much. I would still try to roll back those recent "improvements" but for now that should help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2 Posted April 16 Author Share Posted April 16 3 hours ago, 1610ftw said: Always nice to be mocked ... I was unfair in characterizing their response that way. Throttlestop has change options greyed out, Xtu says the platform doesn't support it. Some of the traffic i saw was Asus users. It started with the Windows update, but firmware is involved for some. There's a fair bit of noise in general from users about Windows 11 performance. Oems may prevail on Msft to do something if they've killed off a product category... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1610ftw Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 52 minutes ago, br2 said: I was unfair in characterizing their response that way. Throttlestop has change options greyed out, Xtu says the platform doesn't support it. Some of the traffic i saw was Asus users. It started with the Windows update, but firmware is involved for some. There's a fair bit of noise in general from users about Windows 11 performance. Oems may prevail on Msft to do something if they've killed off a product category... There is a bunch of changes that you have to make in bios to enable undervolting / overclocking, have you done that? If not please check out the videos below. The second one goes through all settings I believe and the other one os more geared towards the GT77 but I am not sure if it gives step by step instructions. Personally I prefer to do everything in Throttlestop instead of the bios or Intel XTU. It also allows me much easier tweaking and as my laptops usually only get rebooted once a week if at all I do not mind having to start Throttlestop manually and there are also easily switchable presets and even an automatic switch between battery and AC power if you want to. In any case it is a very handy tool that also gives me nice info in the task bar about power usage and CPU and GPU temps so it is what I always use. I just hope that things are not so borked that you will not be able to use XTU / Throttlestop as that is horrible when on a power budget! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2 Posted April 16 Author Share Posted April 16 3 minutes ago, 1610ftw said: There is a bunch of changes that you have to make in bios to enable undervolting / overclocking, have you done that? ... I just hope that things are not so borked that you will not be able to use XTU / Throttlestop as that is horrible when on a power budget! I didn't see anything in bios, that's why i asked Msi. I'll check the video. thx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2 Posted April 16 Author Share Posted April 16 Undervolt is slightly slower. Otherwise behavior is the same, performance is ok for a few minutes after boot if startup programs don't load. After loading them, it slows down dramatically, but only for unzipping huge files. Probably would be the same for other sustained heavy use. I went back to optimized defaults with high performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
win32asmguy Posted April 16 Share Posted April 16 3 minutes ago, br2 said: Undervolt is slightly slower. Otherwise behavior is the same, performance is ok for a few minutes after boot if startup programs don't load. After loading them, it slows down dramatically, but only for unzipping huge files. Probably would be the same for other sustained heavy use. I went back to optimized defaults with high performance. Disappointing to hear. His video was also made on the initial bios version so now things may need some other settings changed to get any benefit from undervolting. Its dissapointing because the HX chips are supposed to all be unlocked parts that we are definitely paying for their price, yet we see many implementations where Intel and an OEM has a double standard compared to an unlocked desktop chip of the same name. I personally consider MSI Center and any other similar preinstalled OEM software to be intrusive and unnecessary. Half of the time the features they support are buggy or become broken randomly by an automatic update. I tested out a 12th Gen GT77 but ended up returning it because the EC would periodically reset the fan table to its default value and MSI couldn't give an answer if they would even fix the issue in a future EC version. Now I just use the System76 machines with an open source BIOS and EC so I can just modify the fan table to my own preference without needing control software in any OS. Desktop - Xeon W7-2495X, 64GB DDR5-6400 C32 ECC, 800GB Optane P5800X, MSI RTX 4080 Super Ventus 3X OC, Corsair HX1500i, Fractal Define 7 XL, Asus W790E-SAGE SE, Windows 10 Pro 22H2 Clevo PE60SNE - 14900HX, 32GB DDR5-5600 CL40, 4TB WD SN850X, RTX 4070 mobile, 16.0 inch FHD+ 165hz, System76 open source firmware, Windows 10 Pro 22H2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2 Posted April 16 Author Share Posted April 16 20 minutes ago, win32asmguy said: Disappointing to hear. His video was also made on the initial bios version so now things may need some other settings changed to get any benefit from undervolting. Its dissapointing because the HX chips are supposed to all be unlocked parts that we are definitely paying for their price, yet we see many implementations where Intel and an OEM has a double standard compared to an unlocked desktop chip of the same name. I personally consider MSI Center and any other similar preinstalled OEM software to be intrusive and unnecessary. Half of the time the features they support are buggy or become broken randomly by an automatic update. I tested out a 12th Gen GT77 but ended up returning it because the EC would periodically reset the fan table to its default value and MSI couldn't give an answer if they would even fix the issue in a future EC version. Now I just use the System76 machines with an open source BIOS and EC so I can just modify the fan table to my own preference without needing control software in any OS. Yeah i don't load Msi stuff, just Outlook and Sql Server. All the behavior i've seen makes me think Msft imposed some arbitrary threshold. Just my gut... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
br2 Posted April 18 Author Share Posted April 18 Well, something about enabling overclocking and setting back to optimized default appears to have restored its baseline performance. 🤞¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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