Absolute Meltdown Underway at LMG/LTT

[Gumwars]

An absolute storm is brewing over on the YouTube/tech entertainment scene starting with a pretty damning expose kicked off by Gamers Nexus:

 

 

Followed by an really bad response by Linus over on the LTT forums:

https://linustechtips.com/topic/1526180-gamers-nexus-alleges-lmg-has-insufficient-ethics-and-integrity/page/16/#comment-16078641

 

Which garnered an appropriate response from GN:

 

 

LMG did respond, with a monetized apology video complete with merch and sponsor plugs:

 

 

Which all in all, is pretty bad.  And just when you thought it was over, a former LTT employee has come forward with allegations of a "tech bros" toxic culture at LMG, complete with the requisite horrors of sexual harassment, inappropriate touching, etc.

 

As a viewer of LTT for nearly a decade, I'm stunned that a media figure like Linus, who has come across as that somewhat ADHD friend that could never sit still, has this kind of drama cooking behind the camera.  In addition, it's become pretty clear through his WAN show that he is pretty anti-worker's rights, or at least anti-labor in an organization sense.  

 

The whole thing is pretty wild.

Edited August 17, 2023 by Reciever
language

[Etern4l]

Disgusting. There has been a fair amount of discussion on this in the “official thread”

 

 

[jaybee83]

2 hours ago, Gumwars said:

An absolute shitstorm is brewing over on the YouTube/tech entertainment scene starting with a pretty damning expose kicked off by Gamers Nexus:

 

 

Followed by an really bad response by Linus over on the LTT forums:

https://linustechtips.com/topic/1526180-gamers-nexus-alleges-lmg-has-insufficient-ethics-and-integrity/page/16/#comment-16078641

 

Which garnered an appropriate response from GN:

 

 

LMG did respond, with a monetized apology video complete with merch and sponsor plugs:

 

 

Which all in all, is pretty bad.  And just when you thought it was over, a former LTT employee has come forward with allegations of a "tech bros" toxic culture at LMG, complete with the requisite horrors of sexual harassment, inappropriate touching, etc.

 

As a viewer of LTT for nearly a decade, I'm stunned that a media figure like Linus, who has come across as that somewhat ADHD friend that could never sit still, has this kind of drama cooking behind the camera.  In addition, it's become pretty clear through his WAN show that he is pretty anti-worker's rights, or at least anti-labor in an organization sense.  

 

The whole thing is pretty wild.

 

nice sum up of events thus far. here some links as to the LTT employee and her experiences:

 

https://www.dexerto.com/tech/ex-linus-tech-tips-employee-alleges-mistreatment-and-poor-conditions-2251613/

 

https://www.sportskeeda.com/esports/news-i-told-i-chunky-fat-ugly-stupid-youtuber-madison-suop-opens-reveals-left-linus-media-group-amid-recent-controversy

[Gumwars]

And now an outside investigator has been hired:

https://www.theverge.com/2023/8/16/23834190/linus-tech-tips-gamersnexus-madison-reeves-controversy

 

 

[saturnotaku]

While both sides in the harassment allegations need to be heard, I'd feel more comfortable with an investigation that was being led by whatever the Canadian equivalent of OSHA is. An agency hired by the company itself feels like a fox investigating itself for a break-in at the chicken coop. Unless these workplace allegations are proven false beyond a reasonable doubt, I don't see how LMG recovers, doubly so in light of Linus quadrupling down. They'll no doubt retain a contingent of d**k rider fans, but there's otherwise a very real possibility that they end up like Vice or Buzzfeed.

 

I wanted to address the point in the other thread about handling this privately. Let's not forget that LMG is the one who started this by calling out the other outlets. If the problems with LMG were limited to incorrect data on a few charts here and there, that's one thing. But we're talking about serious, systemic failures in many areas of the operation of a media conglomerate that absolutely should know better. With them attempting to pivot toward data-driven testing, they should have made damn sure their ducks were in a row before going after channels with 1/10 (LTT specifically) or significantly less (all of LMG) of the audience/reach.

 

Maybe Linus should have accepted that $100,000,000 buyout offer.

[Gumwars]

2 hours ago, saturnotaku said:

While both sides in the harassment allegations need to be heard, I'd feel more comfortable with an investigation that was being led by whatever the Canadian equivalent of OSHA is. An agency hired by the company itself feels like a fox investigating itself for a break-in at the chicken coop. Unless these workplace allegations are proven false beyond a reasonable doubt, I don't see how LMG recovers, doubly so in light of Linus quadrupling down. They'll no doubt retain a contingent of d**k rider fans, but there's otherwise a very real possibility that they end up like Vice or Buzzfeed.

 

I wanted to address the point in the other thread about handling this privately. Let's not forget that LMG is the one who started this by calling out the other outlets. If the problems with LMG were limited to incorrect data on a few charts here and there, that's one thing. But we're talking about serious, systemic failures in many areas of the operation of a media conglomerate that absolutely should know better. With them attempting to pivot toward data-driven testing, they should have made damn sure their ducks were in a row before going after channels with 1/10 (LTT specifically) or significantly less (all of LMG) of the audience/reach.

 

Maybe Linus should have accepted that $100,000,000 buyout offer.

 

I agree, a governmental entity with no financial incentive or ties to LMG would be the best way to proceed here.  I'm from the US and labor law/labor relations regarding what leverage is afforded the alleged victim is different than Canada, apparently.  This would be a simple call to the EEOC office in California to trigger a state run investigation.  I also agree that this whole affair is very likely the end of LMG as we see it today.  They lost 100K subscribers, in a single day.  It is very possible, nay probable that they continue to hemorrhage subscribers from all their platforms as this debacle unfolds.

 

I think this is going to go down as an example of how to not handle a crisis at the corporate level. 

[saturnotaku]

58 minutes ago, Gumwars said:

 

I agree, a governmental entity with no financial incentive or ties to LMG would be the best way to proceed here.  I'm from the US and labor law/labor relations regarding what leverage is afforded the alleged victim is different than Canada, apparently.  This would be a simple call to the EEOC office in California to trigger a state run investigation.  I also agree that this whole affair is very likely the end of LMG as we see it today.  They lost 100K subscribers, in a single day.  It is very possible, nay probable that they continue to hemorrhage subscribers from all their platforms as this debacle unfolds.

 

I think this is going to go down as an example of how to not handle a crisis at the corporate level. 

 

I'll be curious to see if creators start pulling out of Floatplane. 

 

Regardless, I have a feeling that with these most recent allegations, we're going to see a settlement with a hush-money payout, an NDA, and the results of the investigation being sealed for all time.

 

[cylix]

Looks like they knew something happend to Madison  when she left the Company, shit is going to hit the fan big time at LMG.

 

 

[Mr. Fox]

My opinion is the less government gets involved with this silly thing the better off the world will be. Government harms more than it helps, and even when it does help it does it wrong, and costs too much, due to mismanagement, wastefulness and incompetence. I think the "What do we do now?" video is legit and sincere. I'm not a huge LTT fan and their channel is among those I watch the least simply because a lot of the content doesn't interest me. But, I do think he is an fallible human being that probably would have done some things different in hindsight. He started small and built quite an empire. I have a ton of respect for that even though I don't give a hoot about a lot of the content.

 

The bigger a company gets, the more it becomes subject to mistakes, and his is a highly visible one. People always look for conspiracies and juicy stories. Truth and facts are optional when it comes to clickbait and nonsense in the "news" and on the internet. Hopefully, this will blow over soon and we can all focus on something that actually matters. I've had a gut full of all of the stupid videos on YouTube from people looking to increase their subscriber base at the expense of a peer that has been influential and successful by trashing him publicly. So, I'm not defending Linus as much as rejecting the irrational way most people react to silly internet drama, and the ulterior motives behind some of it.

[saturnotaku]

Our personal feelings on the quality of the content are largely the same. The only LMG property I ever subscribed to was TechQuickie, and that was only for a couple months. I like Mac Address because its tone and feel are, for lack of a better term, more "mature" than LTT. The main channel was something I would only watch if I was utterly bored. However, whatever we think about the overall quality of their work is utterly irrelevant. Your personal opinions on the term "influencer" and how that system operates are irrelevant. 

 

Like it or not, whether they have one sub or 15 million, tech YouTubers who want to do content like GN, HUB, or LMG have a responsibility to their audiences. If you're going to take a shot at fellow creators within your space, your own nose better be clean. Again, this isn't just a few transposed numbers on bar charts. We're talking repeated, verifiable errors that have largely gone unnoticed, and when they are called out, the company does little, if anything to correct them. You have your own employees on video, in their own words, saying that they want more time to conduct testing and polish the videos. Upper management responds by ignoring those requests and subsequently doubling down, with no remorse for not spending an extra "$100, $200, $500" of employee salary to do so.

 

The workplace abuse allegations are the cherry on top of this crap sundae. The allegations here aren't inappropriate jokes, or a guy accidentally brushed up against a girl's butt. Someone is saying that they had to engage in self harm just to get a day off, and to me that requires more than the accused paying someone to look into it. I don't deny government in the aggregate is a net negative, but this is one of the few instances where I think they can be effective, and if this situation needs to go to a court of law, so be it.

[Etern4l]

Sorry,  I’m struggling to get impressed by YT “empires”, since they are mostly based on human weakness and stupidity. 15M subscribers? Pfft, how about 35M https://youtube.com/@SSSniperWolf

 

I value the guys with 1-2M (or less) sub channels but who do honest work. Sadly the society rewards Linuses and Sniper Wolves of this world more.

[Mr. Fox]

2 hours ago, Etern4l said:

Sadly the society rewards Linuses and Sniper Wolves of this world more.

It's not just tech-related and not limited to YouTube. It's Tik Tok, Instagram, Facepoot, Twatter, mainstream "news" media disinformation, often with governmental origination or sponsorship... we are literally flooded with garbage information, erroneous information (intentional and accidental) and stupid, idiotic and worthless nonsense that is non-stop, and a horde of zombie sheeple that believe it all and lack any ability to employ logic or common sense in terms of what they blindly accept as "fact" or reality. We were better off without it all. Now we have AI to assist us as we double-down on becoming dumbed-down. A planet filled with educated idiots, uneducated idiots, corrupt leadership and criminals (official and unofficial) looking to exploit both varieties of idiots.

[KING19]

5 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

My opinion is the less government gets involved with this silly thing the better off the world will be. Government harms more than it helps, and even when it does help it does it wrong, and costs too much, due to mismanagement, wastefulness and incompetence. I think the "What do we do now?" video is legit and sincere. I'm not a huge LTT fan and their channel is among those I watch the least simply because a lot of the content doesn't interest me. But, I do think he is an fallible human being that probably would have done some things different in hindsight. He started small and built quite an empire. I have a ton of respect for that even though I don't give a hoot about a lot of the content.

 

The bigger a company gets, the more it becomes subject to mistakes, and his is a highly visible one. People always look for conspiracies and juicy stories. Truth and facts are optional when it comes to clickbait and nonsense in the "news" and on the internet. Hopefully, this will blow over soon and we can all focus on something that actually matters. I've had a gut full of all of the stupid videos on YouTube from people looking to increase their subscriber base at the expense of a peer that has been influential and successful by trashing him publicly. So, I'm not defending Linus as much as rejecting the irrational way most people react to silly internet drama, and the ulterior motives behind some of it.

 

This is what this whole story is becoming and people love drama that why i said in the other thread that GN (Steve) did this to increase their subscribers and views to their channel and company and to hurt their major competition and now because of their actions everyone is taking shots at LTT (Linus) making videos after videos about it and its spreading to many online forums including reddit, It didnt need to go that far and it should of been handled privately, Its a possibility that GN could get sued by LTT for defamation for causing this mess but we'll see what happens, Im not justifying what LTT and Linus did but two wrongs dont make a right. The workplace abuse allegations with LTT have existed for a year or so, maybe longer than that i think, i havent been paying attention to a lot of it but there are pretty serious and not surprising with companies these days and ofc Linus do have a ego problem probably have a narcissist personality too.

[Etern4l]

19 minutes ago, KING19 said:

 

This is what this whole story is becoming and people love drama that why i said in the other thread that GN (Steve) did this to increase their subscribers and views to their channel and company and to hurt their major competition and now because of their actions everyone is taking shots at LTT (Linus) making videos after videos about it and its spreading to many online forums including reddit, It didnt need to go that far and it should of been handled privately, Its a possibility that GN could get sued by LTT for defamation for causing this mess but we'll see what happens, Im not justifying what LTT and Linus did but two wrongs dont make a right. The workplace abuse allegations with LTT have existed for a year or so, maybe longer than that i think, i havent been paying attention to a lot of it but there are pretty serious and not surprising with companies these days and ofc Linus do have a ego problem probably have a narcissist personality too.

 

No offence, but isn't this a bit naive? Let's say that CNN says something negative about Fox News. Do you imagine Fox News people calling CNN asking them to issue a public clarification or withdrawal of their statements (or vice versa)? They are arch-competitors and would be very unlikely to do that unless under a court order. Also take note of LInus' initial response on the WAN show: excuses, attempts to downplay, and blame the other side somehow.

[saturnotaku]

14 minutes ago, KING19 said:

 

This is what this whole story is becoming and people love drama that why i said in the other thread that GN (Steve) did this to increase their subscribers and views to their channel and company and to hurt their major competition and now because of their actions everyone is taking shots at LTT (Linus) making videos after videos about it and its spreading to many online forums including reddit, It didnt need to go that far and it should of been handled privately, Its a possibility that GN could get sued by LTT for defamation for causing this mess but we'll see what happens, Im not justifying what LTT and Linus did but two wrongs dont make a right. The workplace abuse allegations with LTT have existed for a year or so, maybe longer than that i think, i havent been paying attention to a lot of it but there are pretty serious and not surprising with companies these days and ofc Linus do have a ego problem probably have a narcissist personality too.

 

GN wouldn't have gotten involved had LMG not fired the first shot. Regardless, the conspiracy angle is stupid anyway because LMG employees themselves have stated on record that they know content was rushed, and Linus admitted to ignoring their concerns.

[jaybee83]

20 hours ago, saturnotaku said:

 

I'll be curious to see if creators start pulling out of Floatplane. 

 

Regardless, I have a feeling that with these most recent allegations, we're going to see a settlement with a hush-money payout, an NDA, and the results of the investigation being sealed for all time.

 

 

welp, the subscribers are definitely pulling out of floatplane....

 

https://floatplane.wtf/

 

other sources also floating around, i.e. reddit / ltt forum, etc.

 

peak was somewhere around 41000 so basically lost 12% of their subs inside 2 days. nice?! 

[KING19]

10 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

 

No offence, but isn't this a bit naive? Let's say that CNN says something negative about Fox News. Do you imagine Fox News people calling CNN asking them to issue a public clarification or withdrawal of their statements (or vice versa)? They are arch-competitors and would be very unlikely to do that unless under a court order. Also take note of LInus' initial response on the WAN show: excuses, attempts to downplay, and blame the other side somehow.

 

Again im not justifying for what Linus did but most people wouldnt be talking about this if GN didnt make a public youtube video about it calling it constructive criticism which is a big lie especially on youtube these days with influencers. I see it as an influencer attacking another influencer to gain more views and subscribers and causing the other one to lose subscribers and views and that what happened causing a unnecessary sh*tstorm, Maybe GN had some good intentions at first but all they did just added more fuel to the fire  and there always an agenda about it when you make a video attacking another youtuber/influencer.

 

 

28 minutes ago, saturnotaku said:

 

GN wouldn't have gotten involved had LMG not fired the first shot. Regardless, the conspiracy angle is stupid anyway because LMG employees themselves have stated on record that they know content was rushed, and Linus admitted to ignoring their concerns.

 

I'll say this again the workplace abuse allegations with LTT have existed for a year or so, maybe longer than that i think, i havent been paying attention to a lot of it but there are pretty serious and not surprising with companies these days and ofc Linus do have a ego problem probably have a narcissist personality too. Both of those combined can easily create a toxic work environment.

[Etern4l]

14 minutes ago, KING19 said:

 

Again im not justifying for what Linus did but most people wouldnt be talking about this if GN didnt make a public youtube video about it calling it constructive criticism which is a big lie especially on youtube these days with influencers. I see it as an influencer attacking another influencer to gain more views and subscribers and causing the other one to lose subscribers and views and that what happened causing a unnecessary sh*tstorm, Maybe GN had some good intentions at first but all they did just added more fuel to the fire  and there always an agenda about it when you make a video attacking another youtuber/influencer.

 

 

 

I'll say this again the workplace abuse allegations with LTT have existed for a year or so, maybe longer than that i think, i havent been paying attention to a lot of it but there are pretty serious and not surprising with companies these days and ofc Linus do have a ego problem probably have a narcissist personality too. Both of those combined can easily create a toxic work environment.

Why are you so concerned about all this? We are the winners here. The s…storm around the quality of testing and bias/fairness will mean YTers will be paying more attention to this in the future.

 

if you like LMG content and are worried they will go under, don’t. The exec team will pull through on this, maybe fire a scapegoat or two to show the world they care.

[Mr. Fox]

The saddest part of all is that any of it matters to us or anyone else. Videos, news entertainment articles up the kazoo, and threads everywhere, because human beings love a conspiracy theory, love to talk about it, say what they think about it. And, we latch onto bad news more swiftly than good news. If it is bad or messed up, then it must be true. If it is good news, then it must not be true, it is only partially true and they are hiding something they don't want us to know, or it is outright gaslighting. It would be better for LTT, GN, their employees, us and the rest of the world is none of us gave a rat's tail about any of it. Thanks to the power of the internet and the commiseration-loving flaws of humanity, we are all pole vaulting over mouse droppings to one degree or another. We should lock them in a padded room and tell them they can't come out until they've figured it out, but spare us all of the drama because "ain't nobody got time fo dat" LOL.

 

If there are internal issues and abuses in the workplace that rise to the level of legal action, that is totally separate. They should pursue the remedies available to them. We don't need to hear about it and wouldn't be hearing about any of it if it was not involving a high profile entity. It's messed up and it happens often, but it's not news and public awareness of it just brings out all of the trolls and pot-stirring nutjobs that complain in public because they want to be the center of attention and be numbered among the noisemakers. 

[electrosoft]

Back to LTT, Reddit (where all things go to get lost in white noise) has Madison Reeve's entire tweet stream of her time at LTT

 

This is what happens when someone big is exposed and those who had previously felt afraid to come forward ride the momentum and step into the light.

 

I am sure over the next days/weeks other examples of LTT shenanigans will come to light and LTT will be completely bathed in the light of the Internet to atone for their sins.

 

This is a much needed and deserved reckoning for LTT.

 

I will still continue to watch them as I do several other channels. That is the extent of my involvement and commitment to every YT channel I watch. I do not buy the merch or do patreon, floatplane or any of that extra curricular activity. I'm fine with whatever their YT offerings provide. I do not join their discords or watch their twitch streams. I routinely enable my ad blocker depending on channel.

 

 

And of course here comes FC patting himself on the back as always....

 

 

 

[Etern4l]

2 hours ago, electrosoft said:

Back to LTT, Reddit (where all things go to get lost in white noise) has Madison Reeve's entire tweet stream of her time at LTT

 

This is what happens when someone big is exposed and those who had previously felt afraid to come forward ride the momentum and step into the light.

 

I am sure over the next days/weeks other examples of LTT shenanigans will come to light and LTT will be completely bathed in the light of the Internet to atone for their sins.

 

This is a much needed and deserved reckoning for LTT.

 

I will still continue to watch them as I do several other channels. That is the extent of my involvement and commitment to every YT channel I watch. I do not buy the merch or do patreon, floatplane or any of that extra curricular activity. I'm fine with whatever their YT offerings provide. I do not join their discords or watch their twitch streams. I routinely enable my ad blocker depending on channel.

 

 

And of course here comes FC patting himself on the back as always....

 

 

 

I knew something was missing in the discussion so far. Bro @electrosoft to the rescue with a FC link 😄

 

Style aside, he made a lot of good points, including calling GN a bit hypocritical on relationships etc.

[electrosoft]

4 hours ago, Etern4l said:

I knew something was missing in the discussion so far. Bro @electrosoft to the rescue with a FC link 😄

 

Style aside, he made a lot of good points, including calling GN a bit hypocritical on relationships etc.

 

Agreed, I did find several of his points valid along with calling GN a bit hypocritical.

 

Then he would go off like he parted the red sea and invented bread and then I would find my eyes ever so slowly drifting down to his sub count then back up. 🤣

[Etern4l]

5 hours ago, electrosoft said:

 

Agreed, I did find several of his points valid along with calling GN a bit hypocritical.

 

Then he would go off like he parted the red sea and invented bread and then I would find my eyes ever so slowly drifting down to his sub count then back up. 🤣

Given how funny he can be, and assuming the tech side of things holds water, I have a feeling his sub count would 10x++ if he just managed to cut the profanity out. Then again, it doesn’t look like he cares at all. Seems very happy to be a foul-mouthed desert village chieftain.

[jaybee83]

11 hours ago, electrosoft said:

Back to LTT, Reddit (where all things go to get lost in white noise) has Madison Reeve's entire tweet stream of her time at LTT

 

This is what happens when someone big is exposed and those who had previously felt afraid to come forward ride the momentum and step into the light.

 

I am sure over the next days/weeks other examples of LTT shenanigans will come to light and LTT will be completely bathed in the light of the Internet to atone for their sins.

 

This is a much needed and deserved reckoning for LTT.

 

I will still continue to watch them as I do several other channels. That is the extent of my involvement and commitment to every YT channel I watch. I do not buy the merch or do patreon, floatplane or any of that extra curricular activity. I'm fine with whatever their YT offerings provide. I do not join their discords or watch their twitch streams. I routinely enable my ad blocker depending on channel.

 

 

And of course here comes FC patting himself on the back as always....

 

 

 

 

agreed on all points there. oh geez those FC thumbnails....lulz

[KING19]

23 hours ago, Etern4l said:

Why are you so concerned about all this? We are the winners here. The s…storm around the quality of testing and bias/fairness will mean YTers will be paying more attention to this in the future.

 

if you like LMG content and are worried they will go under, don’t. The exec team will pull through on this, maybe fire a scapegoat or two to show the world they care.

 

Others probably will but idk LTT will and also who knows GN does the same as LTT during tests and having a bias perspective as well. I care about it because the last thing we need for tech influencers to resort attacking other tech influencers for views, subscribers and to feed the outrage junkies like in the political space especially how toxic people can be on the internet these days. Like i said they should of handled it privately because they started a sh*tstorm where everyone is attacking LTT and added more fuel to the fire with the workplace abuse allegations going on with LTT.

 

I doubt LTT will go under regardless even though they'll lose a lot of money and staff from this, Besides i dont watch just LTT, GN, Jay, and but i also watch other smaller not known tech channels from time to time which they do a better job than LTT and other big youtubers with their videos.