P750DM-(G) Dsanke BIOS does not work with BGA1440 CPUs

[Alex69]

Hi guys,

 

I was using DSANKE bios (I belive it is from P750DM3 with ME_DISABLED) to upgrade my P750DM barebone for I5 9600KF and it worked great. I wanted to upgrade for 8 cores and lower TDP and purchased E-2286M BGA CPU from Aliexpress. Sadly, it did not work. I thought it must be a bad contact due to bare crystal or something and ordered i7 9750H (6/12 core CPU) with lid package.  It also did not work. Laptop just does not start. Both CPUs are working fine in modded with CoffeMod 0.99 MSI Z170 board and ME disabled.

 

Anyone running BGA CPUs succesfully on P7xxx models? What BIOS you use? I can dump mine, but I am pretty sure it is latest stock bios from DSANKE, I never did any tweaks to it. 

[Csupati]

Hi, if you have dsanke unlocked bios installed, buy a 8 core 9700 non K /  T  /  K or 9900 non K /  T  /  K cpu and set the tdp limit + core speed  like me for lower heat and noise. Or just disable turbo boost , and will go at stock speed on all cores. 9700T and 9900T has lower TDP by factory.

 

[ViktorV]

On 9/19/2023 at 9:22 PM, Alex69 said:

Hi guys,

 

I was using DSANKE bios (I belive it is from P750DM3 with ME_DISABLED) to upgrade my P750DM barebone for I5 9600KF and it worked great. I wanted to upgrade for 8 cores and lower TDP and purchased E-2286M BGA CPU from Aliexpress. Sadly, it did not work. I thought it must be a bad contact due to bare crystal or something and ordered i7 9750H (6/12 core CPU) with lid package.  It also did not work. Laptop just does not start. Both CPUs are working fine in modded with CoffeMod 0.99 MSI Z170 board and ME disabled.

 

Anyone running BGA CPUs succesfully on P7xxx models? What BIOS you use? I can dump mine, but I am pretty sure it is latest stock bios from DSANKE, I never did any tweaks to it. 

Hello! How does a laptop with a bga processor installed behave? Cyclically reboots over and over again with a black screen?

[Kwstas800]

Hello to the forum. Where can I found the unlocked bios for the p750dm ? It has many problems and after changed the pch still the same . 

[razor0601]

What kind of problems?

[zex4]

I would be interested aswell...what happend until now...you did got to Work?🤔

Its definitely because of the bios...it's just needs to modded the right way...mybe the sellers could help you...

[Kwstas800]

On 11/13/2023 at 12:35 AM, razor0601 said:

What kind of problems?

Doesn’t recognise the usb2 (usb3 works) no sound and no Bluetooth (WiFi works) . I have the stock bios 

 

On 11/13/2023 at 12:35 AM, razor0601 said:

What kind of problems?

Doesn’t recognise the usb2 (usb3 works) no sound and no Bluetooth (WiFi works) . I have the stock bios 

[razor0601]

Try at first the latest XMG U506 Bios. Because the unlocked DSanke Bios makes problems. For example it reboots when you try to shut it down.

[Kwstas800]

Ok I will search to find it. 

[Kwstas800]

I installed the xmg but the problem is the same . 

[jjo192]

Hi, not sure if you still need the advise or not. I have a P775DM3 and have used a P750DM3. I used this for both. I am using an 8 core 16 thread mutant 1440 CPU.

 

This is the P7xxTM1 version ported to work on DM3. This gives 8 core support in the bios. I had issues with other versions breaking the Thunderbolt and USB-C ports, this does not break them. 

 

I had lots of issues initially with these. But the main thing that fixed my issue was the set the default RAM frequency in CoffeeTime to 2133mhz. Then boot initially with 1 RAM module.

 

Good luck.

 

Edit: Correct BIOS updated.

 

 

P7xxTM1.rar

[zex4]

That's very interesting do you have some pics from the mutant cpu or how it looks when it's placed @socket 

[jjo192]

Can maybe look at dismantling for a photo but won't rush to do it. For the socket if you have this one:

 

Just take the metal socket brace off the board and use the 3 according screw holes:

 

 

If you have this version, (which I do) 
 

 

You will need to take the metal socket brace off and use washers to slightly raise the metal socket brace and screw it back

 

This is the result:

 

 

As you can see the CPU is 8 Cores / 16 Threads and a BGA1440. The Motherboard is also recognised as a TM1, not DM3 even though it is still Z170 Skylake chipset which is what the P7XXDM3 is. So this BIOS is basically all the features of the TM1 added to the P775DM2/3 / P750DM2/3 etc including RTX support for RTX2060/70/80, the RTX heatsink is required though.

 

[anassa]

@jjo192 Do you have any have numbers for how it scores / performs compared to the desktop 9900? How much power does it pull? How is the heat?

[jjo192]

So I would say I'm more of a stable undercloker/undervolter, my GPU is undervolted by 33% (voltage, performance is still 100%) to help with heat and I undervolted the CPU. So I run the CPU at 3.5Ghz / 3.2Ghz for the Cache Ratio and -150mv for the voltage offset. This gives the following result under full load in XTU:

 

 

54 Watts is the result. In my case I can run at -170mv and 2.1Ghz for the Cache Ratio and achieve around 45w. But the increase of the Cache Ratio to 3.2Ghz gives a worthwhile increase in FPS for emulation and -170mv can cause an issue every now and then and is not alot of difference from -150mv which is super stable. As for temperature that is just the CPU. The heatsink in my case is the joint CPU/GPU heatsink. So for gaming it is highter than 51c when the GPU heats up too under the same heatsink, but gaming doesn't use 100%. So it sits around 65c when gaming alongisde the GPU that runs at around the same.

Next is the CPU with the same config, but at 4.0Ghz with Cache Ratio remaining at 3.2Ghz
 

 

76 Watts is the draw this time and under gaming conditions its around 73c.

 

Lastly at 4.5Ghz:

 

 

This is where the CPU starts to fall away. Anything after 4.2Ghz starts to go up in Watts rapidly per Multiplier increase. So 4.0 - 4.2 is a peak sweet spot for all cores.

 

This is the bench compared to a i9-9900KF for reference running at 4.5Ghz all cores.

 

 

So nearly matching but far more power draw, so not really on par all around.

 

In conclusion. I got this CPU for £65 / $82. It's not quite an i9-9900KF, but it is still an 8 core / 16 thread CPU for a good price. There is also a version of the mutant CPU that is a laptop i9-9980HK fitted for the LGA 1151 socket for a bit more money that I want to get that I feel will run closer to 4.5Ghz all cores under 80 watts. But honestly this CPU is great for the price I have not had any issues at all, consider it a 4.0-4.2Ghz all core CPU.

 

Finally, interestingly Windows 11's upgrade detects it as a compatible CPU. So it is Windows 11 compatible even though it technically reads as 'Genuine Intel 0000' so thats a bonus if your into Windows 11. 

[anassa]

2 hours ago, jjo192 said:

There is also a version of the mutant CPU that is a laptop i9-9980HK fitted for the LGA 1151 socket for a bit more money that I want to get that I feel will run closer to 4.5Ghz all cores under 80 watts.

 

Ya I saw that one but it was like $170? But running at 4.5ghz all core at 80w would be very tempting.

 

Just from my own testing, but I will need to look again for my 9900k with -100mv core offset and regular clocks I was pulling ~117w on CB20 but was throttling bad at 99C but that was on a P870DM3 with poor contact so I know I can cool it better, but for my P750DM2 I am more heat limited and with the 8700k pulling ~100w on the P750DM2 it gets to the mid 90s. But it can take care of ~80w with just a good fan curve, there are still a couple smaller things to keep temps down (without a cooling pad or anything external of the laptop).  If I am pulling 60w I can easily keep fans low and have it run fairly quietly and well enough for most tasks.

 

I might have to try this!

 

 

[jjo192]

80w is a bit of a guess really to be honest. I am going with it because the i9-9980HK is a 45w TDP and up to 5Ghz. Admittedly that is obviously 5Ghz on a single core and TDP doesn't mean much when it comes to this. Maybe 85w -95w, maybe lower its tough to know. I have tried looking for people who have tested the i9-9980HK but I mainly find overclocking. 

 

My other guess is the i9-9980HK will have the same breaking point somewhere around 4-4.5Ghz all core where it jumps from 70w to 120w over 1-2 multiplier increases. I am actually building a custom heatsink for the P775DM3, re-designing the back in CAD to 3D print it. It will give the laptop that back bulge you see in other gaming laptops but it's a bit of fun. 

 

I just find with CPUs, obviously the wattage does not increase in the same increments as you'd expect, so in reverse for undervolting it has the desired effect. Take a 5Ghz all core cpu at 150w, underclock that to 4Ghz all cores you would expect to get 120w at 80% of the clock, but you don't, you get it at around 100w, then add in a -100mv offset and then you look at 85w. I did exactly this on a CPU, can't remeber what it was now. I always like to find that sweet spot, where lowering the clocks start to significantly decrease the overall wattage. I do see alot of people gear towards getting the highest Ghz possible, but 3.5Ghz all cores has never given me an issue with PC gaming, emulation dependings on that %Ghz all core performance.

 

I played with the i7-8700K a while ago with my P750DM3. If I remember correctly I ran that at 3.5Ghz all cores and -100mv and it was at 55w and at 4.0Ghz all cores it was 75w ish. 4.2Ghz all core, and again it started to get up there, 4,2Ghz was around 90w.

 

 

[anassa]

Fair point, I have the Aliexpress united heatsink and with the 8700k I wonder if the IHS height it too low and it doesn't allow for good contact. I will try the 9900k as it has a higher IHS to see how temps are at a similar power draw. I think 8core / 16 threads configuration has a decent amount of life left even with IPC and other tech improvements.

 

I read at some place that the mobile i9 chip is basically the same as the desktop, which would make sense for the power draw, I wonder if they are just better binned then for something like the 9980hk, so you are essentially getting a 9900ks without the premium. But I haven't actually checked . . 😅

 

I may have seen a picture of the redesigned back at some point. Do you have a link? I prefer the P750DM2 because I find it still portable enough as a 15.6" and can be pulled out at a coffee shop without taking too much space.  We can also undervolt it to keep it quiet and use a smaller 230w PSU for moving it around.  While still having the power for some heavier work loads. 

[jjo192]

I actually bought my P775DM3 as a faulty unit with the intent to fix it. The issue stated was that it overheated, and it did, big time. That was because the thermal pads on the CPU and GPU side of the heatsink were double stacked and too high, meaning the chips where not making contact.

 

I pulled off all the thermal pads and tested it and it made the correct contact, heat was better. Then I put the first layer back on, tested it, perfect again. From there I used a whiteboard pen to mark the VRAM chips, mosfets and everything else that was supposed to be making contact with the heatsink on both the CPU and GPU side. From there I just built the pads up on the heatsink to the corresponding chips until the thermal pad got the pen mark to confirm contact. The laptop then began to boot with low fan speeds and now the temperatures are what the should be. So maybe see if that is the issue. 

 

With the mutant CPU I have, it is slightly taller than an normal LGA 1151 CPU, but actually I didnt need to get add thermal pads, they just got swashed less. 

 

Yes I think that is basically the case with the laptop CPUs, tweaked desktop versions. So I don't fancy $170 for a small increase.

 

No, no link. I am in the process of designing it and haven't shared anything online. But I will be on the lookout for the one you saw. Even though when gaming I only reach 72c both CPU and GPU at max, I want the built a slighty over the top cooler for the fun of it and have it run at super low temps. The P775DM3 is stationary, so I don't mind its size, I have a smaller laptop for travel.

[anassa]

1 hour ago, jjo192 said:

I pulled off all the thermal pads and tested it and it made the correct contact, heat was better. Then I put the first layer back on, tested it, perfect again. From there I used a whiteboard pen to mark the VRAM chips, mosfets and everything else that was supposed to be making contact with the heatsink on both the CPU and GPU side. From there I just built the pads up on the heatsink to the corresponding chips until the thermal pad got the pen mark to confirm contact. The laptop then began to boot with low fan speeds and now the temperatures are what the should be. So maybe see if that is the issue. 

 

That sounds like a great test method to see. Thanks

 

From what I can tell just from my own experience, most of the time a lot of the heat issues with Clevos has to do with bad contact. Just getting the pads perfect and really good contact makes a very very big difference. When I first put on my aliexpress heatsink I got 92C at 192w for the GPU, then checked the screws, re tightened and got 71C at 186w. Huge difference. The GPU side of this heatsink (even though it is unified) is very impressive, for my 200w 1080 gtx on a 20min stress test with timespy it maxed out at 76C with fans at 60%, ambient temp was round 70F. Which is why I think contact might be an issue on the CPU side, it should be able to do better.

 

1 hour ago, jjo192 said:

With the mutant CPU I have, it is slightly taller than an normal LGA 1151 CPU, but actually I didnt need to get add thermal pads, they just got swashed less. 

 

You got the one with the IHS right?

 

From what I see in this thread:

https://www.reddit.com/r/overclocking/comments/18s6qac/chinese_i99980hk_off_with_the_head/

 

He is pushing a lot more power through it, but seems to have benefited from a delid.

1 hour ago, jjo192 said:

No, no link. I am in the process of designing it and haven't shared anything online. But I will be on the lookout for the one you saw. Even though when gaming I only reach 72c both CPU and GPU at max, I want the built a slighty over the top cooler for the fun of it and have it run at super low temps. The P775DM3 is stationary, so I don't mind its size, I have a smaller laptop for travel.

 

 

Oh weird, I couldn't find it again but from what I remembered it was looked like what you described. That is fun build, post it up for sure! Due to moving too often, and living in smaller spaces, keeping one laptop (even though if you include parts, at the moment, I have 4 laptops hidden in a corner . . .) is more functional for now.

 

 

[jjo192]

Yes I have found that method for the thermal pads to be quite useful. 

 

Okay I have just done a test. 192w seemed really high to me. I thought it was your combined CPU and GPU draw. I disabled my undervolting for my GPU and ran a stress test and it does infact reach around 170-190w. My undervolted GPU bairly breaks 110w on a stress test and wouldn't get anywhere near 71c on a stress test with the CPU being idle. When I game my GPU, which is also a GTX 1080 in the P775DM3, will run around 90w.

 

Here is my curve editor in MSI afterburner:

 

 

I have moved the frequency down to 1847Mhz from the original 1911Mhz (very little loss) and for me that will be stable on 0.850v (the sweat spot). Which brings this card from >180w down to <100w. Try that if your up for it and I think you will be a huge difference.

 

This is what my curve editor looks like at default, it will achieved 1911Mhz but only when it reaches 1.050v mininum and may go upto 1.250v

 

 

That difference from 1.050 - 1.250 down to 0.850v is almost a 50% decrease in power consumption for a less that 3% drop in performance.

 

Edit: Yes, the one with the IHS.

[anassa]

1 hour ago, jjo192 said:

My undervolted GPU bairly breaks 110w on a stress test and wouldn't get anywhere near 71c on a stress test with the CPU being idle.

What fan settings do you have on then?

 

I think I have +175 core so you keep the same curve but higher, then flat after 0.950v to get the undervolt also. With that it pulls around 170w but I also don't go above 76C on 60% fan speed. But when I get home I can check the curve and see what I can get at 0.850v, your +203 core seems really good

[jjo192]

No particular fan settings, just default. There seems to be a big difference from 0.950v to 0.850v. 0.950v just gave me 130w and then 0.850v gave me 90w. 

[anassa]

Interesting, regardless of performance I would like to give those voltages a try and see the difference, maybe run a Cyberpunk benchmark to see how it impacts game play fps.  You should give RLECViewer a try, you can probably find a good balance of quiet fan speed and cool temps. It allows you fan speed % based on temp. It is pretty basic but better than nothing or the default setting.

[jjo192]

Yes, I just dropped to 0.800v at 1797mhz and got 80w as a test. But that is as far as I'd go. 1847mhz at 0.850v feels comfortable being that 1847mhz is what the specified frequency for the card is. Have looked at RLECViewer before just never used it but will check it out again.