Dell Precision 7690/7790 Pre-release Thread

[Ionising_Radiation]

It's nearly the end of the year, and I suppose the time is ripe for such a thread. 

 

We should be expecting a chassis refresh next year, too, going by the cadence of the past few releases. 

 

I found this PDF that appears to mention the Precision 7690; not sure if it's a typo or a genuine mention of a potential product. 

 

Given how some tech companies have also skipped '9' (no iPhone 9, no Windows 9), we might possibly see a new numbering system, too (though this is pure speculation, don't quote me). 

[Ionising_Radiation]

Some notes: 

• The EU will require all notebooks sold from 2026 to support USB-C charging, and all smartphones, tablets, etc to support it from next year. Possible that Dell might support 240 W USB-C PD. 
• Next year we get Ada refreshes, so we might get Quadro refreshes too (terminology: it's easier for me to just use the Quadro branding, RTX alone is IMO too confusing). 
• As already mentioned, we are due for a chassis refresh. I wonder what Dell is going to do—frankly speaking, the chassis have been getting increasingly more locked down and harder to field-service over the years. 
• Probably will continue to see CAMM, especially now that it's a JEDEC standard. 
• I wonder what other specs will be updated, besides the CPU and GPU. 
• It would be nice to bring back some utility to the keyboard and revert to the 7530-era layout, including PgUp/Down, Home, End keys without needing to invoke them with numlock off. 
• The ZBook Fury G9 and G10 have got a 120 Hz 16:10 3840 × 2400 DCI-P3 display. It would be good if Dell brought this over, too. Right now the only high-refresh rate option is on the 7780, and none on the 7680.

[Aaron44126]

Very interested to see what this turns out being like… I really hope they do something about the keyboard at least.

 

My work Precision 7560 will be due for a refresh next summer and my workplace is eyeing a switch to Lenovo. So not yet sure if I will end up with a “7690”, a Lenovo P-something, or another MacBook.

[win32asmguy]

Personally I hope they would move back to the older 7560 heatsink design with fans on both sides, but switch to a unified vapor chamber with factory PTM7950, and fans that can be swapped without removing the heatsink. It could really, really use an additional 0.2 inches thickness for higher CFM fans and more cooling capability. If they want to compete with Ultrabook thickness that should be done on the 5690. Everything else should be performance, expansion and repairability oriented.

 

CAMM is already excellent with its ability to use SODIMMs at high MT/s with the interposer or capacity. They just need to get the price down with CAMM modules. If the connector is electrically superior we should also get a 32GB CAMM XMP 6800MT/s or such that is ahead of SODIMMs available. A bios option to set a minimum fan speed to a custom supplied value would be great.

 

I have heard that Nvidia will not be refreshing mobile Ada in 2024. Also 14th Gen HX seems to be a small boost over 13th Gen. So maybe CPU and GPU performance will be mostly the same for a while.

 

I think the display options are fine. I personally hate dealing with scaling and micromanaging switching between refresh rates when on battery so the FHD 60hz is perfect for me so long as it does not have PWM flicker. It also always seems like the FHD 60hz panel has the least issues working with Linux.

[iieeann]

I will only consider next machine if there is thunderbolt 5, AND new proper arrow keys.

[serpro69]

Looking forward to seeing how it's going to turn out. After the 7x70 line I've pretty much given up on Dell, so this release would probably decide it for me if I'll ever buy another one of their laptops.

A company I worked for as a consultant did a refresh on their laptops recently. They were considering Dell at some point, but wen't with Lenovo in the end. And even though this is not indicative of anything, I like to think that it's not just individual consumers who are not that happy with Dell, which would hopefully force them to make better decisions.

[Light]

On 11/22/2023 at 12:24 AM, Ionising_Radiation said:

• The EU will require all notebooks sold from 2026 to support USB-C charging, and all smartphones, tablets, etc to support it from next year. Possible that Dell might support 240 W USB-C PD. 

 

If the charging moves form a DC plug to a USB-C only, I wonder if it will have extra USB-C ports to make up for the one(s) taken up by charging?
Or will it still support both a dedicated dc power port and usb-c charging (hopefully)?

To date, I don't really love the USB-C only charging. I guess it's the future, but to me it made more sense to have a power port be a power port - simple, cheap, reliable. I don't use a dock -- I can see the advantage of USB-C if you use a dock so there is only one cable to connect. Without the dock I don't love it; on my XPS, one of the four USB-C ports has a plug icon, which I believe indicates I should use that one to plug it in to the usb-c ac adapter. However, where there isn't excellent lighting, like in a hotel room, I can't see the icon (it's a 2-in-one so it's harder for me to remember which side the usb-c plug with the plug icon is on, since it's symmetrical) And every couple months it gives me a warning that there is a slow charger attached, even though I'm using the OEM dell charger. Never got that on my dell standard power adapter connectors. Likewise, on my lenovo with usb-c charging the inside of the one usb-c port that is to be used for the usb-c ac adapter has a yellow inside on the port, but very hard to see when the lights in the room are down, like in a hotel room plugging in before bed.

In a best case, it seems like I'm occupying a data port for power, which seems kind of pointless if I'm not using a dock.

Maybe going off topic, but I also worry a bit about the security of mixing data and power -- hotel rooms have usb ports in the rooms frequently now, but I don't ever plug my phone into that since it's both a power and data port because I don't know what's behind that port in the room. Could someone put something in the usb port like they put skimmers on gas pumps? Maybe I'm overly paranoid, but I wouldn't just plug a random flash drive into my device at this point in time, so I don't love plugging into those either.. I'd rather have an analog safe power source like a simple plug where the plug is just a plug.  But now I'm going off topic...

[Light]

Overall I like the 7770 a lot.

But I'll only buy another dell precision if they get the thermal improved.

I bought the 7770 because of an issue with my 7760; I liked the style of the 7770's chasis a lot - the curves in the back make it look nice to me like a porsche 😉

I was disappointed however that the 7770 is about the same speed for me as the 7760 because even though there are more cores and a faster cpu in the 7770 it throttles and rarely uses 100% of the cores for very long, whereas the 7760 actually can use it's cores at 100% until the task is done. So before buying my next precision, I'll be reading reviews here closely to see how it benchmarks on real-world tasks.

[Light]

On 11/22/2023 at 12:24 AM, Ionising_Radiation said:

• It would be nice to bring back some utility to the keyboard and revert to the 7530-era layout, including PgUp/Down, Home, End keys without needing to invoke them with numlock off. 

 

Yes! I hate it when working in a hotel room to not have page up, page down, home and end keys! (I use my F1-F12 keys). Why can we not fit these keys with all the space available! My last laptop with these keys was actually a Lenovo. 

[Aaron44126]

6 hours ago, Light said:

To date, I don't really love the USB-C only charging. I guess it's the future, but to me it made more sense to have a power port be a power port
Maybe going off topic, but I also worry a bit about the security of mixing data and power

 

I feel like the dedicated USB-C power port was an issue in early systems that used USB-C for power, but most new systems support power input from any USB-C port, so that issue should be going away.  Hopefully as you suggest, if they get rid of the AC port then they will fill the space with an additional USB-C port.  I can see the appeal of a future where there are only USB-C ports and everything that you plug in "just works", but I think we are a ways off from that yet.

 

Regarding the "who knows what this USB device is doing" (your hotel room example), that's one thing that I do like about macOS, which prompts to ask if it is "OK" when plugging in a USB data device before allowing the OS to interact with it.  There's a similar thing on iOS; basic I/O devices will be connected without a prompt, but if a USB device wants to access stuff on the phone then it must first be marked "trusted" and you have to enter your phone passcode for that.

 

I know Dell has BIOS options to disable certain Thunderbolt functions for security, but I don't think there are any just for plain USB(-C).  But, you can get USB "power-only" adapters or cables that will physically block the data pins and only allow the power pins to connect... though I don't know off hand if those would work with the new high-capacity power chargers.

[win32asmguy]

6 hours ago, Light said:

To date, I don't really love the USB-C only charging. I guess it's the future, but to me it made more sense to have a power port be a power port - simple, cheap, reliable. I don't use a dock -- I can see the advantage of USB-C if you use a dock so there is only one cable to connect.

 

I like having a dedicated power port as it is usually a very inexpensive part to replace if you are out of warranty, while any high speed USB / TB4 usually means soldering a replacement or motherboard replacement. It would be great if all USB/TB ports on each side could move to a daughterboard connected via a DGFF style cable to handle the signaling requirements. Then the daugtherboard could be obtained for under $100 whenever ports wear out and need to be replaced.

[1610ftw]

Dell now has two models with basically the same screen height with a 16:10 16" and a 16:9 17.3" model so it is important that they move up to an 18" 16:10 screen format with FHD+, QHD+ and 4K/UHD+ resolution. They also need to get back to a proper cooling design and stop that two fans next to each other on one side of the laptop nonsense - it can now be considered a failure. One big fan each left and right and a vapor chamber in between will do a lot better. This will probably add a little bit of area to the chassis and as @win32asmguy mentions for the top of the line 18" model there should be a heftier option with taller cooling. Together with a slightly bigger chassis area even 0.1" added thickness would make a difference, maybe with only 0.05" at the front and 0.15" at the back to give a little bit of a wedge shape?

 

So that would be the 7890 then and it is imo the only sensible way forward for Dell as the 16 and 17.3" option are just too close to each other which probably is one of the reasons that Lenovo and HP recently went for 16" only. In the meantime if there are no 3840x2400 18" options Dell may even offer the 17.3" screen in the 18" chassis for people who think that they need 4K. This has to my knowledge been done before by Lenovo with 15.6" 16:9 and 16" 16:10 screen options in the same chassis.

 

Also they will hopefully get back to standard memory or the new memory standard proposed by Samsung that makes a lot more sense than the not so great concept they came up with where memory cannot be added but has to be swapped out altogether at hideous prices with essentially no market to sell smaller modules:

https://news.samsung.com/global/samsung-electronics-industry-first-lpcamm-ushers-in-future-of-memory-modules

It has this important quote so first laptops with it should hopefully not be that far away:

LPCAMM is set to be tested using next-generation systems with major customers this year, and commercialization is planned for 2024.

 

Even going back to regular 4 slots of SODIMM would be an improvement and please keep the 4 full sized 2280 NVME slots.

OK, fat chance of moving back to 4 SODIMM happening but with Samsung entering the scene I would think that other manufacturers will not adopt CAMM so Dell may as well admit defeat.

 

Regarding power delivery USB-C 240W will be fine and 2 x 240W will be even better but I completely agree with @win32asmguy that USB-C only power delivery raises issues and concerns and I would strongly suggest to go with an up to 330W GaN power brick and also keep the classic power connector. This will also address concerns of power delivery for the highest spec models.

 

As for the keyboard and knowing that Dell does not like to change these things too often I would strongly hope that they finally address some concerns voiced here and I would most prefer it if they brought back proper cursor keys and PG UP and DOWN keys and maximize size as much as is possible for the 16" chassis. That is if they do not want to release something entirely different for the bigger models which would of course be a dream but probably not that realistic. I hate that wretched half key height crap and would think that like @Ionising_Radiation mentions a 7730 style layout would be better but please make the 6 lower height keys where the lower row sticks out at the bottom taller! If it is sticking out already make it stick out all the way please and do not skimp on height - it is insulting to power users and I doubt that anybody would complain!

 

I do not really see a satisfying layout that will work without some buttons sticking out that will also fit in the 16" model so the other option would be a rectangular keyboard with an added row that adds 5 more keys for the 18" model or the radical solution that HP employs that would require an external numpad which is not a good option for most people especially if not integrated seamlessly by Dell.

 

I also think that it is about time that workstations also get proper RGB lighting that can then be set up to give proper color coding for programs or other user priorities. HP has understood this by now even though the implementation may not be quite there yet and Dell will hopefully follow soon.

[Howard N]

The lack of a 16:10 ration on the 17" precision laptops has made the use of the main screen nearly unworkable for me. I deal with it, but reading even my Outlook emails when the system is tedious and a major time waster. I has to attach a second portable tablet to get around the issue. I am hoping that the next generation does support the 16:10 format - otherwise my last Precision laptop I got will have been the last one I will purchase.

[Aaron44126]

Precision 5690 has been certified by DMTF.  I was wondering if they were going to change up the branding because they are running out of numbers, and it might make sense to pair that with a chassis refresh (which 7000 series is due for), but it appears that is not happening yet — at least not for 5000 series.

[Aaron44126]

Precision 5490 has been certified by DMTF, confirming another model.

[1610ftw]

So the big model is still missing - looking forward to the 7890 then 😉

[Aaron44126]

Dell Precision 3590 and 3591 have also appeared on the DMTF certification page.

[Aaron44126]

And today, we have Precision 3490 showing up at DMTF.  I think that is all of the models that we would expect, other than the 7000-series...

[AL123]

On 2/4/2024 at 7:51 PM, Aaron44126 said:

And today, we have Precision 3490 showing up at DMTF.  I think that is all of the models that we would expect, other than the 7000-series...

 

Intel have only announced 14th generation HX CPUs which lack professional features such as VPro Enterprise and support for ECC memory. Read into that what you will…. 
 

https://www.anandtech.com/show/21213/intel-unveils-14th-gen-core-hx-series-processors-raptor-lake-mobile-refresh-with-thunderbolt-5#

[Aaron44126]

Wouldn't be surprised if there are select versions of the CPUs that do have the pro features (i.e. 14950HX) that just have not been announced yet.  Or, they could brand them differently...  Before 12th gen these CPUs were released under the "Xeon" brand.

 

[Edit]

Hunting for spec sheets.

 

Example: Precision 5680 spec sheet

https://www.delltechnologies.com/asset/en-us/products/workstations/technical-support/precision-5680-spec-sheet.pdf

 

Tweak the URL for 5690 and you get a page that asks you to sign in.  It seems the file is there, just protected.

https://www.delltechnologies.com/asset/en-us/products/workstations/technical-support/precision-5690-spec-sheet.pdf

 

Try Precision 7690, 7790, or 7890, and you just get a 404 error.

 

[Edit 2]

Just signing in with a normal account got me access to the spec sheets.  AFAIK, these products have not been announced yet?

 

[Edit 3]

Looks like they have not "fixed" the keyboard layout yet...  Home & End still share with F11 and F12.

precision-3490-spec-sheet.pdf precision-3591-spec-sheet.pdf precision-5490-spec-sheet.pdf precision-5690-spec-sheet.pdf

[iieeann]

Keyboard still miserable layout? lol...

Kinda strange, Lenovo insists on keyboard without Numpad.  Only HP has dedicated pgup pgdn home end keys but a bit far from ctrl key which ctrl+home/end is a common combination;  up/dn arrow keys still tiny type.  All 3 big companies are not looking from ergonomic point of view. 

 

I hate Dell keyboard, but since i am using external setup 90% of the time, i can still live with that.

I hope Dell maintains the 4x m.2 slots design, this could be by far the laptop with most m.2 slots in the world, i used up all of them + the wwan slot.

[1610ftw]

6 hours ago, iieeann said:

Keyboard still miserable layout? lol...

Kinda strange, Lenovo insists on keyboard without Numpad.  Only HP has dedicated pgup pgdn home end keys but a bit far from ctrl key which ctrl+home/end is a common combination;  up/dn arrow keys still tiny type.  All 3 big companies are not looking from ergonomic point of view. 

 

I hate Dell keyboard, but since i am using external setup 90% of the time, i can still live with that.

I hope Dell maintains the 4x m.2 slots design, this could be by far the laptop with most m.2 slots in the world, i used up all of them + the wwan slot.

 

I think that last gen Dell still had the best combination of configuration options, drive slots, screen and keyboard. Yes the keyboard isn't that great but at least they have a 17.3" option with decent power delivery for the GPU and 4 drive slots. With Lenovo and HP out of the race due to their severe power limits or SSD slot reduction combined with only a 16" screen there is only Dell left standing when it comes to big screen work stations from the 3 classic workstation manufacturers.

 

Dell and HP are now the only companies as of 13th gen with 4x m.2 slots with a 2280 form factor , hopefully this will not change.

 

Clevo and MSI still have three slots though so that is still better than only 2 which seems to be the norm now even in higher end devices.

 

3 to 4 years ago with 9th and 10th gen we still used to have laptops with 5 and 6 drives with one to two 2.5" drive slots and 3 to 5 m.2 slots from Clevo, HP and MSI and I very much preferred that. With two 2.5" slots one can also do a RAID 0 which practically doubles the relatively low sequential speeds of the 2.5" drives.

 

Oh well, best we can hope for today is probably 4x m.2 2280. 

 

 

[iieeann]

My bad in my earlier post, Lenovo does offer full keyboard with P16 Gen2.  Earlier i was looking at P1 gen6.

[iieeann]

5 hours ago, 1610ftw said:

 

Clevo and MSI still have three slots though so that is still better than only 2 which seems to be the norm now even in higher end devices.

 

 

 

Are u sure Clevo has 3 slots? past few years i have been following them and only 2 slots offered at top models.

[1610ftw]

Yep, here is the review of the Eurocom version:

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Eurocom-Raptor-X17-laptop-review-The-MSI-and-Asus-ROG-alternative.715961.0.html