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About Windows LTSC (Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC)


Aaron44126
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(Quick support status snapshot)

LTSC 2021: Released 2021-11-16 • Supported until 2027-01-12IoT supported until 2032-01-13

LTSC 2019: Released 2018-11-13 • Supported until 2029-01-09

LTSB 2016: Released 2016-08-02 • Supported until 2026-10-13

LTSB 2015: Released 2015-07-29 • Supported until 2025-10-14

 

 

After the disappointment that is Windows 11, I migrated my systems over to Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC.  I appreciate the long-term feature stability and general lack of monetization "features" that have been plaguing later versions of Windows 10/11.  I think that this is the way to go for many of us tech type folks, especially for business systems, so I wanted to write up some information about it.  (I have much to say specifically about my problems with Windows 11... over here.)

 

 

What is Windows LTSC

 

The Windows long-term service channel is a version of Windows that is updated much less often than the general consumer version of Windows.  The idea is to maintain feature stability for fixed-function devices.  It was previously known as LTSB (long-term service branch).

 

Windows 10 was given a major "feature upgrade" once every six months.  Starting with Windows 11, Microsoft is settling into a once-per-year pattern with feature upgrades.  Windows LTSC is refreshed only once every three years.  Since 2016, the schedule has been roughly aligned with Windows Server releases, and Windows LTSC often shares the same base as the corresponding version of Windows Server (same binaries, updates, etc.).

 

Windows LTSC omits features that are likely to change over the course of its lifecycle.  There is no Microsoft Store.  There are no bundled "modern apps".  (Even the calculator app is replaced with a Win32 version, instead of the UWP version that ships with ordinary Windows 10/11.)  Cortana is not included.  Microsoft Edge was omitted until the 2021 release.  Monthly updates do not contain new features — for example, the "News and Interests" feature that dropped in Windows 10 in the middle of 2021 did not make it into Windows 10 LTSC.

 

Otherwise, it is a fully functional version of Windows.  Some omitted features can be added back if you like (see below).

 

In the end, this comes off as a version of Windows that is a lot like what Windows used to be like, before Windows 10 — basically, unchanging except for bug fixes, until you went out of your way to upgrade to a new version.

 

 

Windows LTSC versions

 

There have been four LTSC releases to date:

Mid 2015: Windows 10 LTSB 2015, released alongside the original RTM release of Windows 10 (retroactively named "Windows 10, version 1507")

Mid 2016: Windows 10 LTSB 2016, released alongside Windows 10 "Anniversary Update" (Windows 10, version 1607) and Windows Server 2016

Late 2018: Windows 10 LTSC 2019, released alongside Windows 10, version 1809 and Windows Server 2019

Late 2021: Windows 10 LTSC 2021, released alongside Windows 10, version 21H2

(Windows Server 2022 was released around the same time as LTSC 2021, but Server 2022 and LTSC 2021 do not share the same binaries.)

 

Microsoft is settling into a three-year cycle for LTSC releases, so the next release is due in late 2024, and will probably be based on Windows 11.  (Note that even though LTSC 2019 and LTSC 2021 are "named" two years apart, they were released three years apart.)

 

 

Windows LTSC editions

 

Windows LTSC is currently available in two editions: "Enterprise" and "IoT Enterprise".  The two editions are functionally equivalent, and in fact you can switch between the two just by changing the product key.  They differ in terms of how you obtain a license for them, and in how long they are supported.

 

 

Windows LTSC support lifecycle

 

Ordinary Windows 10 releases were only supported for 18 months (or 30 months for Enterprise/Education editions, for fall releases).  Windows 11 releases are supported for 24 months (36 months for Enterprise/Education editions).  This means you are expected to be moving forward to the newer versions regularly.  Windows LTSC releases are supported for five years (Enterprise, 2021 and later) or ten years (IoT Enterprise, and Enterprise releases prior to 2021).

 

You can see the current status for each version on this page (just scroll down).  https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/release-health/release-information

 

 

Windows LTSC licensing

 

Unlike ordinary Windows 10/11, Windows LTSC licenses are good only for a particular version of Windows LTSC.  To upgrade to a newer version, you will need to obtain a new license for that version.  On the possible positive side, you will never be pressured by Windows alerts to upgrade to a newer version.

 

Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC can be obtained via a Microsoft volume licensing agreement.  If your business has a software licensing agreement with Microsoft, then you can probably get a license through there.

 

Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC is licensed to OEMs that sell fixed-function devices (POS terminals, ATMs, etc.).

 

Both types of licenses can be found through resellers.  Licenses can be purchased from resellers like CDW, Provantage, or Connection.  "Upgrade" licenses available from resellers like this can be installed on systems that shipped with an OEM version of Windows 10 — you are "upgrading" from base Windows 10 to Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC.  (You may still do a clean install rather than an actual in-place upgrade if you so choose; the "upgrade" is to the license for your system, not the actual Windows install.)  IoT licenses are generally cheaper.

 

Here is a Reddit thread that I found, where the OP describes the process of purchasing a license from Provantage.

 

Purchasing volume license licenses through a Microsoft "partner", you may have to buy five licenses of "something" because that is the minimum to qualify as a volume license customer.  You could purchase one Windows 10 LTSC license and then four cheap "Microsoft Identity Manager" licenses.

 

You can also find license keys on eBay.

 

Product keys for either edition are available through a Visual Studio subscription (yearly, not monthly).  Also, Microsoft Action Pack includes licenses to run Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC on up to ten PCs.  These are licenses for a specific use; Visual Studio keys are supposed to be used for application development and testing purposes only, and this page describes how Microsoft Action Pack works.

 

A 90-day evaluation version is available if you just want to try it out.

 

(There are probably other places to get licenses; let me know and I will include them here.)

 

 

Upgrading from "ordinary" Windows to Windows LTSC

 

Users of Windows 7, 8, or 8.1 can upgrade in-place to Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC 2015.  From there, they can upgrade in-place to any later Windows 10 LTSC release.  (A license is not technically needed for LTSC 2015 if you are just using it as a stepping stone, but you will need the install media.)

 

To upgrade from Windows 10 (Home/Pro/Enterprise/Education) to Windows 10 LTSC, all you need to do is:

  • Open regedit and navigate to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion
  • Find the value "EditionID" and change the data to "EnterpriseS"
  • Run setup.exe from Windows 10 LTSC install media and perform an in-place upgrade
  • (If you upgrade in-place from non-LTSC to LTSC, Microsoft Store and the built-in "modern apps" will be carried over, even though they are not included in a LTSC base install.)

Note that you can upgrade to the same version of Windows 10 that you are currently on (ex: Windows 10, version 21H2 to Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC 2021), or to a later version (ex: Windows 10, version 1909 to Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC 2021), but you cannot upgrade to an "earlier" version (ex: Windows 10, version 1909 to Windows 10 Enterprise 2019).  See the list of Windows LTSC versions above to see which LTSC version matches up with which Windows 10 version.

 

In-place upgrades from Windows 11 to Windows LTSC are not possible at present.

 

So, to spell it out, the upgrade matrix looks like:

  • Windows 7, 8, and 8.1 may upgrade to Windows 10 LTSB 2015 (and then to a later version).
  • Windows 10, version 1507 may upgrade to Windows 10 LTSB 2015 or later.
  • Windows 10, versions 1511 and 1607 may upgrade to Windows 10 LTSB 2016 or later.
  • Windows 10, versions 1703, 1709, 1803, and 1809 may upgrade to Windows 10 LTSC 2019 or later.
  • Windows 10, versions 1903, 1909, 2004, 20H2, 21H1, and 21H2 may upgrade to Windows 10 LTSC 2021 only.
  • There is no in-place upgrade option for Windows 11.

Also, you can upgrade in-place from LTSC to non-LTSC.  (To switch to an edition other than Enterprise or Education, you'll have to adjust the "EditionId" value to match the target edition before kicking off the upgrade.)  Similar rules — you can't upgrade to an older version but you can go to an equivalent or newer version.

 

 

Installing Microsoft Store on Windows LTSC

 

Just open command prompt or PowerShell as admin and run:

wsreset -i

...And then wait a bit; the install can take a few minutes and there is no visual feedback.  Once the Microsoft Store is installed, you can install "modern apps" (UWP, etc.) without issue.

 

 

Windows LTSC downsides

 

What I can think of is basically:

  • If a new feature lands in "ordinary" Windows, you will have to wait for a new version of Windows LTSC to make use of it, and that could be up to three years depending on the timing.
  • Some software may require a certain version of Windows in order to run and could present issues in the later part of a 3-year LTSC cycle.  Games in particular can be an issue here.  Forza Horizon 5, for example, requires Windows 10, version 1909 or better, so LTSC users could not play it until LTSC 2021 was released.  (Some games and apps advertise a requirement for a certain version of Windows but will still work on older versions.  It's a case-by-case investigation.)
  • ...Obtaining a license can be tricky and you have to pay up to upgrade every three years, if you want to stay on the latest version.

 

...That's it for now.  I'll probably update this post with more information as I think of it.

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Dell Precision 7770 (personal)

  • Intel Core i9-12950HX ("Alder Lake"), 8P+8E
    • 8× P cores ("Golden Cove"): 2.3 GHz base, 5.0 GHz turbo, hyperthreading
    • 8× E cores ("Gracemont"): 1.7 GHz base, 3.6 GHz turbo
  • 128GB DDR5-3600 (CAMM)
  • NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 Ti 16GB (DGFF)
  • Storage:
    • 2TB system drive: Samsung 980 Pro, PCIe4
    • 24TB additional storage: 3× Sabrent Rocket 4 Plus 8TB, PCIe4 (Intel RST, RAID 0)
  • Windows 10 (Enterprise LTSC 2021)
  • 17.3" 3940×2180 display
  • Intel Wi-Fi AX211 (Wi-Fi 6E + Bluetooth)
  • 93Wh battery
  • IR webcam
  • Fingerprint reader

 

Dell Precision 7560 (work)

  • Intel Xeon W-11955M ("Tiger Lake")
    • 8×2.6 GHz base, 5.0 GHz turbo, hyperthreading ("Willow Cove")
  • 64GB DDR4-3200 ECC
  • NVIDIA RTX A2000 4GB
  • Storage:
    • 512GB system drive (Micron 2300)
    • 4TB additional storage (Sabrent Rocket Q4)
  • Windows 10 (Enterprise LTSC 2021)
  • 15.6" 3940×2160 display
  • Intel Wi-Fi AX210 (Wi-Fi 6E + Bluetooth)
  • 95Wh battery
  • IR webcam
  • Fingerprint reader

 

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Yeah 1809 until 2028 I believe. If you notice it's just one game that's from an MS studio that is version specific, --typical MS tactics-- I definitely would pass on that if I didn't already have a newer version. I have FH4 and played it a lot for a week or so but have not been back so FH5 not a priority. They also do the "DX12 only" nonsense in some games that aren't MS, wrc10, probably get some money from MS for that bit of nonsense. Just buying new equipment was the reason I have a newer win10, I still have 1809 LTSC on my M4600 backup and that's no heavy gaming rig obviously. I have had the updates turned off on 1809 and this version, Home 2004, with no problems for years. Eventually I think I'll put LTSC 1809 on here if I hit some major problem or move to a new main rig.

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Win LTSB/LTSC is the answer to those of us that loved Windows SteadyState or Embedded.  A lot of the same stuff like the write filter so you've basically got a decently bulletproof windows to use when that's active.  I know it was even virus proof in the xp and win 7 days, but not so sure about 10--I haven't been running it long enough to determine.

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I used to be in corporate IT and had access to all manner of media and licenses, but now I'm a lowly 'home user' and I presume I'm stuck with Windows 10 Pro unless I'm willing to pay for extra licenses (and pay more than once, by the sound of it). 

 

To be honest, I've been using Win 10 Pro for over 5 years and it's been remarkably stable. I don't use the 'store', don't use 'cortana', and it seems pretty stable. MS keep nagging me to switch to a Microsoft Account, and that's pretty much the extent of my struggles with it. 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Do we know if the scheduler for Alder Lake will be making its way to LTSC at some point? It's absolutely silly to ask, and given LTSC doesn't get feature updates I don't think it'd get it, but doesn't hurt to ask.

 

I'd really rather not use Win11 when my new system is delivered, but it's most likely I'll be running Enterprise.

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30 minutes ago, Katja said:

Do we know if the scheduler for Alder Lake will be making its way to LTSC at some point? It's absolutely silly to ask, and given LTSC doesn't get feature updates I don't think it'd get it, but doesn't hurt to ask.

 

I'd really rather not use Win11 when my new system is delivered, but it's most likely I'll be running Enterprise.

 

No.  We don't even know for sure if it is coming to Windows 10 (non-LTSC).

 

ITD support isn't required to run Windows on Alder Lake.  You can make due with Windows 10 as is just fine for the most part.  Doing a little copy/paste from another post I made recently, which includes some links for context:

 

On 3/17/2022 at 6:28 AM, Aaron44126 said:

It isn't that bad, there are just some edge cases where you have to sort of be aware of how the process scheduler works.

 

References:

Windows 10 schedules below normal priority processes on E cores only by default.  Ways around this are: App developers can update their app to accommodate for this behavior; configure affected processes to run at "normal" priority instead of "below normal" or "low"; or, use the "High performance" Windows power profile which does not have this scheduling behavior.

 

[Edit]

Oh, I also wanted to mention that the Intel Alder Lake game dev guide has a direct (but vague) reference to thread director being (partially) backported.  You can just search the page for "backport" to find it.

 

...If Microsoft backports ITD support to Windows 10, it could come in a cumulative update patch, or it could come as part of the forthcoming Windows 10, version 22H2 update (which we do know is coming, and will be released in the fall).

 

I personally think that it would make sense for them to do it sooner than fall.  It could be timed with the upcoming wave of business-focused systems with Alder Lake CPUs.  These will be launching over the next 2-3 months.  (I'm referring to business laptops like Dell Latitude, workstation desktop systems with the W680 chipset, etc. — these aren't available yet but indications are that they are not that far out.)  Microsoft and OEMs have to know that while they can force Windows 11 on consumers, businesses aren't going to be ready to move off of Windows 10 yet, so waiting this amount of time would give them the maximum amount of time to pressure consumers towards Windows 11 while not making business IT departments too unhappy.

 

If ITD support comes to Windows 10 (non-LTSC), but not LTSC 2021...  Well, Windows 10 LTSC 2021 and Windows 10 (non-LTSC) version 21H2 share the same binaries and updates, so it probably won't be too much work to get ITD support enabled even if Microsoft isn't offering it to LTSC officially.  I personally think that they are likely to offer it to LTSC as well.  They'll probably have to offer it to Windows Server 2022 so it just makes sense.

 

If they wait until 22H2 to ship it, it might be not quite as easy to enable on LTSC, but still maybe possible as Windows 10, version 22H2 is likely to be released as an "enablement package" and not a full new build.

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Dell Precision 7770 (personal) • Dell Precision 7560 (work) • Full specs in spoiler block below
Info posts (Dell) — Dell Precision key postsDell driver RSS feeds • Dell Fan Management — override fan behavior
Info posts (Windows) — Turbo boost toggle • The problem with Windows 11 • About Windows 10 LTSC

Spoiler

Dell Precision 7770 (personal)

  • Intel Core i9-12950HX ("Alder Lake"), 8P+8E
    • 8× P cores ("Golden Cove"): 2.3 GHz base, 5.0 GHz turbo, hyperthreading
    • 8× E cores ("Gracemont"): 1.7 GHz base, 3.6 GHz turbo
  • 128GB DDR5-3600 (CAMM)
  • NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 Ti 16GB (DGFF)
  • Storage:
    • 2TB system drive: Samsung 980 Pro, PCIe4
    • 24TB additional storage: 3× Sabrent Rocket 4 Plus 8TB, PCIe4 (Intel RST, RAID 0)
  • Windows 10 (Enterprise LTSC 2021)
  • 17.3" 3940×2180 display
  • Intel Wi-Fi AX211 (Wi-Fi 6E + Bluetooth)
  • 93Wh battery
  • IR webcam
  • Fingerprint reader

 

Dell Precision 7560 (work)

  • Intel Xeon W-11955M ("Tiger Lake")
    • 8×2.6 GHz base, 5.0 GHz turbo, hyperthreading ("Willow Cove")
  • 64GB DDR4-3200 ECC
  • NVIDIA RTX A2000 4GB
  • Storage:
    • 512GB system drive (Micron 2300)
    • 4TB additional storage (Sabrent Rocket Q4)
  • Windows 10 (Enterprise LTSC 2021)
  • 15.6" 3940×2160 display
  • Intel Wi-Fi AX210 (Wi-Fi 6E + Bluetooth)
  • 95Wh battery
  • IR webcam
  • Fingerprint reader

 

Previous

  • Dell Precision 7530, 7510, M4800, M6700
  • Dell Latitude E6520
  • Dell Inspiron 1720, 5150
  • Dell Latitude CPi
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On 3/21/2022 at 2:49 PM, Katja said:

Do we know if the scheduler for Alder Lake will be making its way to LTSC at some point? It's absolutely silly to ask, and given LTSC doesn't get feature updates I don't think it'd get it, but doesn't hurt to ask.

 

I'd really rather not use Win11 when my new system is delivered, but it's most likely I'll be running Enterprise.

God forbid, that Microsoft start add new features as a new thread scheduler for modern Hybrid HW in older Win 10. Hope it never happens. If they do... Be you sure they'll screw up even Win 10. They just can't do it right. 

 

As a sidenote. Most of the benchers on hwbot continue use Win 10 over Win 11 for max performance. This just show their trust in Win 11. 

 

What's probably the most important takeaway from this article is that Windows 10 works very well with Alder Lake despite the lack of support for the Hybrid architectures or Thread Director. In the vast majority of cases, you'll barely notice any difference between Windows 10 and Windows 11.


https://www.techpowerup.com/review/alder-lake-windows-10-performance/2.html

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On 3/9/2022 at 10:11 AM, Steerpike said:

I used to be in corporate IT and had access to all manner of media and licenses, but now I'm a lowly 'home user' and I presume I'm stuck with Windows 10 Pro unless I'm willing to pay for extra licenses (and pay more than once, by the sound of it). 

 

To be honest, I've been using Win 10 Pro for over 5 years and it's been remarkably stable. I don't use the 'store', don't use 'cortana', and it seems pretty stable. MS keep nagging me to switch to a Microsoft Account, and that's pretty much the extent of my struggles with it. 

 

 

On 3/21/2022 at 6:49 AM, Katja said:

Do we know if the scheduler for Alder Lake will be making its way to LTSC at some point? It's absolutely silly to ask, and given LTSC doesn't get feature updates I don't think it'd get it, but doesn't hurt to ask.

 

I'd really rather not use Win11 when my new system is delivered, but it's most likely I'll be running Enterprise.

Honestly, the Winduhz 11 "scheduler" doesn't seem to do a damn thing as far as I can tell. My 12900K performs better with Windows 7, Windows 10 LTSC 2019 and Windows 10 LTSC 2021 than it does with Winduhz 11. I can't point to one single thing that makes Winduhz 11 a better OS to use. Not one. Don't waste your time with it. It's a piece of crap.

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The average response time for a 911 call is 10 minutes. The response time of a .357 is 1400 feet per second.

 

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On 3/26/2022 at 1:13 AM, Mr. Fox said:

 

Honestly, the Winduhz 11 "scheduler" doesn't seem to do a damn thing as far as I can tell. My 12900K performs better with Windows 7, Windows 10 LTSC 2019 and Windows 10 LTSC 2021 than it does with Winduhz 11. I can't point to one single thing that makes Winduhz 11 a better OS to use. Not one. Don't waste your time with it. It's a piece of crap.

Given I ended up getting a Ryzen system, I'll just stick with LTSC; Win11 is just venereal disease for an OS at this point.

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7 hours ago, Katja said:

Given I ended up getting a Ryzen system, I'll just stick with LTSC; Win11 is just venereal disease for an OS at this point.

It's so difficult to understand how anyone could actually like it and think it's good. But, in some countries various things that are disgusting, like insects and rodents, are consumed on a regular basis and sometimes considered delicacies, so go figure.

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The average response time for a 911 call is 10 minutes. The response time of a .357 is 1400 feet per second.

 

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O&O ShutUp10++ 1.9.1427 released today March 29, 2022

 

1.9.1427 – released March 29, 2022

  • NEW: Disable inline text prediction in mails
  • NEW: Disable telemetry for Microsoft Office
  • NEW: Disable logging for Microsoft Office Telemetry Agent
  • NEW: Disable upload of data for Microsoft Office Telemetry Agent
  • NEW: Obfuscate file names when uploading telemetry data
  • NEW: Disable installation of PC Health Check
  • NEW: Dark Mode revamped
  • FIX: Various minor adjustments
  • Available in German, English, French, Italian, Spanish, Russian and Chinese (simplified)

 

And Microsoft want to determine what drivers you should or not should download/install.

 

The function itself, like the core isolation, can be activated or deactivated. There were already some problems that even correct drivers could not be installed. On the other hand, there are always reports of malicious drivers.

 

Today on Twitter, David Weston (MS VP Enterprise and OS Security) announced a new feature for Windows Defender.

 

The Microsoft Vulnerable Driver Block List is designed to help block malicious drivers with a synchronized list. 
microsoft-blocklist-fuer-anfaellige-treiber.jpg

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On 3/29/2022 at 10:36 PM, Papusan said:

O&O ShutUp10++ 1.9.1427 released today March 29, 2022

 

1.9.1427 – released March 29, 2022

  • NEW: Disable inline text prediction in mails
  • NEW: Disable telemetry for Microsoft Office
  • NEW: Disable logging for Microsoft Office Telemetry Agent
  • NEW: Disable upload of data for Microsoft Office Telemetry Agent
  • NEW: Obfuscate file names when uploading telemetry data
  • NEW: Disable installation of PC Health Check
  • NEW: Dark Mode revamped
  • FIX: Various minor adjustments
  • Available in German, English, French, Italian, Spanish, Russian and Chinese (simplified)

O&O ShutUp10++ 1.9.1428 released March 31, 2022

1.9.1428 – released March 31, 2022

  • FIX: User-defined language combinations (e.g. display and keyboard language) are now recognized correctly
  • FIX: Text rendering of setting descriptions more legible in dark mode
  • FIX: Texts ran over the edge of the page for info and short instructions
  • FIX: Check mark in menu item when selecting a display mode again is no longer reset
  • Available in German, English, French, Italian, Spanish, Russian and Chinese (simplified)
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On 3/27/2022 at 8:45 AM, Mr. Fox said:

It's so difficult to understand how anyone could actually like it and think it's good. But, in some countries various things that are disgusting, like insects and rodents, are consumed on a regular basis and sometimes considered delicacies, so go figure.

I don't think it's really a case of 'liking it' as opposed to 'learning to live with it'. I've bought 2 new laptops in the past couple of months (Dell XPS 17 (returned) and LG Gram 17) and both came with W11.   I don't have ready access to media any longer, so if I can learn to live with 11, life is just easier. My approach is, see if I can tolerate it and get used to it, before going to the trouble of backing it out.  So far, I'm reasonably tolerating it! 

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21 minutes ago, Steerpike said:

I don't think it's really a case of 'liking it' as opposed to 'learning to live with it'. I've bought 2 new laptops in the past couple of months (Dell XPS 17 (returned) and LG Gram 17) and both came with W11.   I don't have ready access to media any longer, so if I can learn to live with 11, life is just easier. My approach is, see if I can tolerate it and get used to it, before going to the trouble of backing it out.  So far, I'm reasonably tolerating it! 

I can certainly see the logic of that, and for the average user that is probably more their speed in terms of technical skill. But, it is still a hell of a note to learn to put up with crap when you have other options available that work better. Learning to live with it instead of rejecting it helps facilitate the dumbing down of the product because the Redmond Retards expect everyone to put up and shut up. We can expect things to degrade more than they already have if that is the common approach. And, sadly, it seems to be.

The same problematic approach has also been extremely harmful to those with higher expectations on the hardware side of computing. It is certainly easier to go with the flow than it is to take a stand.

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The average response time for a 911 call is 10 minutes. The response time of a .357 is 1400 feet per second.

 

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Speaking of undesirable change... looking back can be helpful in identifying how much things have declined. It also helps identify how long things have been allowed to remain screwed up because people tolerate crap. (Example is the crummy Start Menu that has sucked on every version that followed Windows 7.)

 

 

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The average response time for a 911 call is 10 minutes. The response time of a .357 is 1400 feet per second.

 

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8 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

I can certainly see the logic of that, and for the average user that is probably more their speed in terms of technical skill. But, it is still a hell of a note to learn to put up with crap when you have other options available that work better. Learning to live with it instead of rejecting it helps facilitate the dumbing down of the product because the Redmond Retards expect everyone to put up and shut up. We can expect things to degrade more than they already have if that is the common approach. And, sadly, it seems to be.

The same problematic approach has also been extremely harmful to those with higher expectations on the hardware side of computing. It is certainly easier to go with the flow than it is to take a stand.

I was a huge fan of windows 7, and was horrified by windows 8.1. Windows 10 was a slight improvement over 8.1, thankfully (hard to imagine how it could have been any worse). Just how much worse W11 is compared to W10 remains to be seen.  But I don't quite see how one is to meaningfully 'reject' these newer releases, when MS get their license money on new laptop sales no matter which version you end up using. As a lowly 'end user', no longer having access to corporate licensing (having retired from the business), it's not clear how I can 'reject' W11 unless I'm willing to pay quite a bit extra for licenses. 

 

But has it been all bad?  When, exactly, did display scaling get introduced? I remember buying a stack of W7 Laptops (for work) back in the day, and being almost unable to use them due to them having very high resolution screens, and no meaningful way to reduce the display resolution (text was so small as to be unreadable). I may be wrong but I thought W10 was when practical display scaling came into existence.

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54 minutes ago, Steerpike said:

I was a huge fan of windows 7, and was horrified by windows 8.1. Windows 10 was a slight improvement over 8.1, thankfully (hard to imagine how it could have been any worse). Just how much worse W11 is compared to W10 remains to be seen.  But I don't quite see how one is to meaningfully 'reject' these newer releases, when MS get their license money on new laptop sales no matter which version you end up using. As a lowly 'end user', no longer having access to corporate licensing (having retired from the business), it's not clear how I can 'reject' W11 unless I'm willing to pay quite a bit extra for licenses. 

 

But has it been all bad?  When, exactly, did display scaling get introduced? I remember buying a stack of W7 Laptops (for work) back in the day, and being almost unable to use them due to them having very high resolution screens, and no meaningful way to reduce the display resolution (text was so small as to be unreadable). I may be wrong but I thought W10 was when practical display scaling came into existence.

Not all bad, just mostly bad. I don't use display scaling if I can avoid it. It helps but has issues. Not everything scales correctly. I choose a laptop with the screen of the proper resolution for comfortable viewing without any scaling. I like 100% on everything. I think the idea of having a 4K screen on a laptop is idiotic. It is way too small. On 15 inch or less, 1080p at 100% is good. On 17 inch 1440p at 100% is good.

 

I buy OEM Windows keys really cheap and activate using hardware ID. So, it doesn't cost much. I have never purchased a retail version of Windows and never have paid more than about $25. Usually about half that much for OEM keys.

 

I realize even suggesting something requiring enough technical skill as a format and reinstall terrifies the average computer user even though it is not a difficult task. It makes me sad to know many are held hostage due to their own fear.

 

Some believe having the newest OS version means they already have the best option. This is a dead giveaway that they are ignorant and lacking in technical strength.

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The average response time for a 911 call is 10 minutes. The response time of a .357 is 1400 feet per second.

 

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Just some notes.

 

1 hour ago, Steerpike said:

But I don't quite see how one is to meaningfully 'reject' these newer releases, when MS get their license money on new laptop sales no matter which version you end up using. As a lowly 'end user', no longer having access to corporate licensing (having retired from the business), it's not clear how I can 'reject' W11 unless I'm willing to pay quite a bit extra for licenses.

 

While you do have to pay up for a license for Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC (which I have been "promoting", along with others), you don't have to pay anything to move from Windows 11 to Windows 10 if you just use the same edition (Pro or Home or whatever).  Microsoft allows downgrades.  In fact, Windows 10 and Windows 11 product keys are cross-compatible and come from the same pool, so I think you should be able to activate one or the other without issue.

 

...Now, going this route would only be advisable for users who are comfortable doing a fresh Windows install, and of course there may be issues finding Windows 10 drivers for a system that shipped with Windows 11 if the OEM is not providing them.  (...Not really a problem at the moment, with most systems, but this will get worse over time.)  Getting media is not a problem.  Microsoft makes it available for free.

 

1 hour ago, Steerpike said:

But has it been all bad?  When, exactly, did display scaling get introduced? I remember buying a stack of W7 Laptops (for work) back in the day, and being almost unable to use them due to them having very high resolution screens, and no meaningful way to reduce the display resolution (text was so small as to be unreadable). I may be wrong but I thought W10 was when practical display scaling came into existence.

 

No, it's not all bad.  I'd argue that Windows 10 brought its fair share of legitimate improvements.  Serious display scaling improvements, as you mention.  (As an aside, I'm not of the same opinion as @Mr. Fox here.  I love the increased sharpness/definition/readability from high-DPI displays.  I run 4K systems at 200% and I don't have any scaling issues that can't be worked around.  Admittedly, I do occasionally have to change compatibility settings on a broken app to disable scaling.  200% is nice because you get straight-up pixel doubling and not "blurriness" if an app runs with scaling disabled.)  Other improvements that come to mind are WSL, a very awesome feature for people using Windows who are familiar with Linux (developer types in particular).  System-wide dark mode is nice.  While Windows 11 launched without any real improvements other than the "fresh coat of paint", I would say, it's getting some more interesting things like Android app support and (finally) tabs for File Explorer.

 

My problem with the direction of Windows basically focuses on the increasing pervasiveness of monetization features, treating ordinary users as "beta testers" by pushing out new builds and features before they have been through a proper QC process, and Microsoft's lack of commitment to feature stability (functionality changes are rolled up with security updates — you can't take one without the other, and that's not the way that things used to be).  I go into all of this in more depth in my "The problem with Windows 11" post (link in sig).

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 3/26/2022 at 1:13 AM, Mr. Fox said:

 

Honestly, the Winduhz 11 "scheduler" doesn't seem to do a damn thing as far as I can tell. My 12900K performs better with Windows 7, Windows 10 LTSC 2019 and Windows 10 LTSC 2021 than it does with Winduhz 11. I can't point to one single thing that makes Winduhz 11 a better OS to use. Not one. Don't waste your time with it. It's a piece of crap.

hey bro, since uve tested both LTSC 2019 and 2021, whats your take between the two? been rocking 2019 ever since it came out and thus currently eyeing the successor.

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56 minutes ago, jaybee83 said:

hey bro, since uve tested both LTSC 2019 and 2021, whats your take between the two? been rocking 2019 ever since it came out and thus currently eyeing the successor.

LTSC 2019 is clearly superior. LTSC 2021 is better than the Pro equivalent, but it is still based on the newer virus variant and not as clean and fast as 2019 (v1809). Once in a while there are games or applications that won't run on 2019 (v1809) so having a multi-boot setup is very helpful. That also allows me to load up the less desirable newer OS with all of the crap so I can keep the older OS crisp and clean for benching.

 

If you compare the default number of services on a clean install of LTSC 2019 versus 2021 you will see the amount of unnecessary trash running in the background is approaching twice as much. Comparing LTSC 2019 to the Pro version of the newer releases it is less than half the resource-sucking garbage.

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The average response time for a 911 call is 10 minutes. The response time of a .357 is 1400 feet per second.

 

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1 hour ago, Mr. Fox said:

LTSC 2019 is clearly superior. LTSC 2021 is better than the Pro equivalent, but it is still based on the newer virus variant and not as clean and fast as 2019 (v1809). Once in a while there are games or applications that won't run on 2019 (v1809) so having a multi-boot setup is very helpful. That also allows me to load up the less desirable newer OS with all of the crap so I can keep the older OS crisp and clean for benching.

 

If you compare the default number of services on a clean install of LTSC 2019 versus 2021 you will see the amount of unnecessary trash running in the background is approaching twice as much. Comparing LTSC 2019 to the Pro version of the newer releases it is less than half the resource-sucking garbage.

so 2021 seems to be more "feature rich" eh? 😅 and yeah ive run into a few compatibility issues with 1809 unfortunately. lets see, so far 2021 still seems to be a better choice than win11... thx for the info bud, unfortunately ive run out of reactions to give for today 😇

currently saving up to jump over to the desktop, waiting for AM5 and RTX 40 series to pop up before i pull the trigger. first desktop build in 15 years for me! 😁

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On 5/2/2022 at 11:51 AM, jaybee83 said:

so 2021 seems to be more "feature rich" eh? 😅

That is certainly a kind and considerate way of putting it. 😄

Being accurate would require violating forum rules

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The average response time for a 911 call is 10 minutes. The response time of a .357 is 1400 feet per second.

 

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