Precision 7540 & Precision 7740 owner's thread

[Kitje]

On 1/19/2023 at 2:04 PM, SvenC said:

BIOS 1.24.0 arrived: Dell Precision 7540 and 7740 System BIOS | Treiberdetails | Dell Deutschland

 

Firmware updates to address security vulnerabilities including (Common Vulnerabilities and Exposures - CVE) such as CVE-2022-40262 and CVE-2022-33894

 

Would that update block undervolting on Windows 10 for Intel 9th gen CPUs?

 

I mostly use Win 11 with Hyper-V enabled, so undervolting is blocked anyways.

But I have a Win 10 installation with Hyper-V enabled and XTU and TS are still able to undervolt on my i7 9750H - would that be blocked?

So, I do recall trying XTU before the firmware update but for whatever reason and no matter the Windows install OEM or no, it wouldn't load until I updated the BIOS. But for some reason XTU works while not letting me undervolt the 9750H in my 7540.

 

However, Throttlestop lets me undervolt, but XTU doesn't reflect this when changed.

[Kitje]

I've set aside my Dell 7540 for now, the only work needed is just different fans but priority isn't on the top list. Eventually it'll have new paste on CPU and GPU, so for now I've put back my M4800. They're both remaining on my desk because one still does the other thing better in their own ways. Vegas on the 7540 and Unreal on the M4800 due to fan noise. I'm still confident that a fan change would improve the emissions, but still worry that the risk is that it won't make a difference and remain the same.

[SvenC]

On 2/28/2023 at 2:30 PM, Vaardu said:

So, I do recall trying XTU before the firmware update but for whatever reason and no matter the Windows install OEM or no, it wouldn't load until I updated the BIOS. But for some reason XTU works while not letting me undervolt the 9750H in my 7540.

 

However, Throttlestop lets me undervolt, but XTU doesn't reflect this when changed.

I guess you are using Windows 10 to get undervolting working with TS?

 

I was under the impression "Windows 11 blocks undervolting - at least if you need HyperV or any kind of virtualization support"

 

TS shows me -106.4mV (CPU) on the Offset Voltage slider (Unlock Adjustable Voltage is checked).

 

Is that value informational or effective?

 

I am on Win11 22H2 and i7-9750h?

[Kitje]

19 minutes ago, SvenC said:

I guess you are using Windows 10 to get undervolting working with TS?

 

I was under the impression "Windows 11 blocks undervolting - at least if you need HyperV or any kind of virtualization support"

 

TS shows me -106.4mV (CPU) on the Offset Voltage slider (Unlock Adjustable Voltage is checked).

 

Is that value informational or effective?

 

I am on Win11 22H2 and i7-9750h?

Yes, on Windows 10. I haven't tried Windows 11 though. I undervolted mine -22.5mV on all on the processor and I think it made a difference by 1c, but didn't go any further from potential instabilities. I'll experiment at some point, but it's been put away for now.

[PHVM_BR]

On 3/2/2023 at 2:19 PM, Kitje said:

Yes, on Windows 10. I haven't tried Windows 11 though. I undervolted mine -22.5mV on all on the processor and I think it made a difference by 1c, but didn't go any further from potential instabilities. I'll experiment at some point, but it's been put away for now.

I use my 7540 i7-9750h with 100% stable undervoltage of -130mV in cache and -250mV in core.

 

The difference to stock is brutal....especially with regard to temperatures.

 

Cinebench R23 multicore under the same conditions:

 

Stock = ~7900

initial: 90W / ~3.85GHz / ~93°C

after ~30s: 75W / ~3.65GHz / ~84°C

 

Subtension = ~8300

~62W / 4.00GHz / ~77°C

 

https://hwbot.org/benchmark/cinebench_-_r23_multi_core_with_benchmate/rankings?hardwareTypeId=processor_5870&cores=6#start=0#interval=20

[Kitje]

Looking like I'm running out of more options to replace the fans of the screaming frog 7540. Many listings list Sunon, either new or used, potentially plagued with the screaming fan syndrome. I may have to try and get closure from the seller of the Delta fans, otherwise if that is no-go then I'm itching on reselling the 7540.

 

Not only that, the lack of feedback of others with this laptop being asked about noise is little to nothing. I'm not ready for a roulette of Sunon fans because likely they're all the same.

[Kitje]

On 2/13/2023 at 8:43 PM, Aaron44126 said:

Most Precision laptop models have multiple fan models in the mix.  I found this photo of Delta fans (Precision 7530 and 7540 fans are interchangeable).  Here's an old thread about the different types of fans available for the Precision M4800 (see posts by @unnoticed).  I ended up sourcing Delta CPU and GPU fans for my Precision M6700 after seeing those posts; Delta was preferred back then, but I'm not sure if that's still the case in Precision 7X40; in Precision 7770, Sunon is generally preferred over Delta.

 

If you do buy aftermarket fans, you should check with the seller because there is no real guarantee that the fan model pictured is the same model that you will get.

 

I personally use ANC headphones when gaming, fan noise becomes a non-issue.  (I take steps like disabling turbo boost to limit the fan noise when I'm not running an intensive application.)

So, Deltas from that seller is out of the question now. Seems they don't ship to the UK after all. I still have a gut feeling that Sunons on 7530-7540 differ but it's still impossible to get confirmation from others.

[Kitje]

Alright, so, this is confusing because the connectors for these fans kinda differ by colour. The white ones seem to be Delta and the black connectors are Sunon, but these fans I have found on another listing don't appear to have Delta branding yet exhibit the white connectors. Are they also Deltas or another brand that I'm not aware of?

 

Actually looking at listings the NS85C12-17G23 NS85C13-17G24 match for the unbranded assumed Delta and branded Delta, its just one set doesn't have Delta branding on it while it too also has the white connectors. I could be wrong, but if it's definitely the case that there are 2 sets of Delta fans and 1 Sunon then that listing could be an option. I'll think it over once more then consider purchasing and trying it out when it gets here.

[Kitje]

A little update: The listing got fixed, supposedly a problem with their account but I ordered the pair. It'll take time to get here but I'll report findings if there are any differences in acoustics between Sunon's and Delta's fans.

[Joe Sanchex]

Hello! greetings to the community and grateful for your contributions and knowledge, I have a Precision 7530, studying the post of the page www.nbrchive.net, I have the knowledge that these are compatible with the 7530 and 7540

 

Quadro RTX 3000: MWDWM
Quadro RTX 4000: 9RY45
Quadro RTX 5000: 8CMTP

 

It has been difficult for me to get the RTX 4000 and RTX 5000, there are plenty of cards for the 7550 and 7560, do you think I can put any of these cards on it? if not, I'll have to settle for the rtx 3000

 

[PHVM_BR]

Does anyone know if the new BIOS 1.25.0 blocks the undervolt?

[Kitje]

1 hour ago, PHVM_BR said:

Does anyone know if the new BIOS 1.25.0 blocks the undervolt?

If in doubt I wouldn't update.

 

1 hour ago, Joe Sanchex said:

Hello! greetings to the community and grateful for your contributions and knowledge, I have a Precision 7530, studying the post of the page www.nbrchive.net, I have the knowledge that these are compatible with the 7530 and 7540

 

Quadro RTX 3000: MWDWM
Quadro RTX 4000: 9RY45
Quadro RTX 5000: 8CMTP

 

It has been difficult for me to get the RTX 4000 and RTX 5000, there are plenty of cards for the 7550 and 7560, do you think I can put any of these cards on it? if not, I'll have to settle for the rtx 3000

 

I don't know if you're hoping to install GPUs from a 7550/60 but from the looks of the GPUs side by side I don't think it'll properly fit...

[Aaron44126]

2 hours ago, Joe Sanchex said:

It has been difficult for me to get the RTX 4000 and RTX 5000, there are plenty of cards for the 7550 and 7560, do you think I can put any of these cards on it? if not, I'll have to settle for the rtx 3000

 

No, Precision 7550/7560 cards will not fit in Precision 7530/7540.  In addition, RTX 4000 and RTX 5000 cards require a heatsink replacement in order to work in Precision 7530/7540 because they have a different component layout and screw positions compared to the other GPU cards.  RTX 3000 should be a drop-in replacement if you already have an NVIDIA card in there.  (You will have to do INF mod to get the NVIDIA driver to load though.)

[PHVM_BR]

48 minutes ago, Aaron44126 said:

In addition, RTX 4000 and RTX 5000 cards require a heatsink replacement in order to work in Precision 7530/7540 because they have a different component layout and screw positions compared to the other GPU cards.  RTX 3000 should be a drop-in replacement if you already have an NVIDIA card in there.  (You will have to do INF mod to get the NVIDIA driver to load though.)

In the case of the Precision 7540 with T2000 the heatsink is the same as the version with RTX3000? Good to know!

 

[Kitje]

33 minutes ago, PHVM_BR said:

In the case of the Precision 7540 with T2000 the heatsink is the same as the version with RTX3000? Good to know!

 

Just curious, do you know what fan manufacturer your 7540 has?

[PHVM_BR]

2 hours ago, Kitje said:

Just curious, do you know what fan manufacturer your 7540 has?

Unfortunately I never checked.

It never bothered me, although at maximum speed it is quite high (~5100rpm).

I last opened the laptop in February and did the repast with PTM 7950. I don't think I'm going to open it for a long time... The performance is fantastic!

[Kitje]

57 minutes ago, PHVM_BR said:

Unfortunately I never checked.

It never bothered me, although at maximum speed it is quite high (~5100rpm).

I last opened the laptop in February and did the repast with PTM 7950. I don't think I'm going to open it for a long time... The performance is fantastic!

Strange, does it produce a high pitched whistle? And I'll make note of the thermal paste for future reference.

[PHVM_BR]

30 minutes ago, Kitje said:

Strange, does it produce a high pitched whistle?

Maybe in the moments of change the level of rotation, but as I said, it doesn't bother me.

 

37 minutes ago, Kitje said:

And I'll make note of the thermal paste for future reference

I used the phase change pad version and I believe it is the best option to avoid flow out delivering long-term durability.

[Kitje]

Well, the fans I got are indeed Delta like in the photo. Tomorrow is installing them and hoping they're not loud as the former. At least they're here now, albeit doesn't have the foam stuff on it that I'm not sure what for.

[PHVM_BR]

I have a CPU bottleneck in my workflow.

6 cores are slowing down my life and so I'm thinking of buying a motherboard with i9, or 9880H or 9980HK, for my Precison 7540 with i7-9750H and Quadro T2000.

Is there anything I should be concerned about or just replace the motherboard and everything will work?

My other option would be to buy another machine, but the Precision 7670/7680 didn't attract me.

I believe with i9 with 8 cores it will serve me for another 2 or 3 years...

[Aaron44126]

18 minutes ago, PHVM_BR said:

Is there anything I should be concerned about or just replace the motherboard and everything will work?

 

AFAIK, the only differentiating factor between the different mobo versions is the CPU, so if you drop in a different motherboard everything should "just work".

 

Minor concerns I can think of:

• Intel vPro may or may not be enabled on your new mobo.  There is a one-time process to set up vPro which is done the first time that the motherboard is powered up (typically at the factory, but I've seen techs do it after a motherboard replacement).  Probably, you don't use or need vPro, so this doesn't matter.
• The system service tag will change.
• The Windows product key is "burned in" to the BIOS, so you might have to jump through hoops to reactivate Windows if you're using the stock OEM install.  (You can pull your current Windows product key with ProduKey.  Note on antivirus false positives.)

One more thing:

If your workload is already multi-threaded, you might find that going from six cores to eight cores doesn't help as much as you'd think.  You should check and see what your CPU power usage is like and if you are power throttling.  The 6-core and 8-core CPUs probably have the same power limit, so if you are already hitting that regularly, then you will find that going from six to eight cores means more threads running but each at a lower speed, so about the same amount of work being done overall in the end.  This would be because the system has to spread the same amount of power across more cores, so they can't run as fast.  Running at a lower speed is more power-efficient, so there would be a modest performance improvement from adding cores, but we're talking about something in the range of 5% and not like 33%.

 

(If your workload is not multi-threaded then this upgrade probably won't help at all.)

[PHVM_BR]

14 minutes ago, Aaron44126 said:

 

AFAIK, the only differentiating factor between the different mobo versions is the CPU, so if you drop in a different motherboard everything should "just work".

 

Minor concerns I can think of:

• Intel vPro may or may not be enabled on your new mobo.  There is a one-time process to set up vPro which is done the first time that the motherboard is powered up (typically at the factory, but I've seen techs do it after a motherboard replacement).  Probably, you don't use or need vPro, so this doesn't matter.
• The system service tag will change.
• The Windows product key is "burned in" to the BIOS, so you might have to jump through hoops to reactivate Windows if you're using the stock OEM install.  (You can pull your current Windows product key with ProduKey.  Note on antivirus false positives.)

One more thing:

If your workload is already multi-threaded, you might find that going from six cores to eight cores doesn't help as much as you'd think.  You should check and see what your CPU power usage is like and if you are power throttling.  The 6-core and 8-core CPUs probably have the same power limit, so if you are already hitting that regularly, then you will find that going from six to eight cores means more threads running but each at a lower speed, so about the same amount of work being done overall in the end.  This would be because the system has to spread the same amount of power across more cores, so they can't run as fast.  Running at a lower speed is more power-efficient, so there would be a modest performance improvement from adding cores, but we're talking about something in the range of 5% and not like 33%.

 

(If your workload is not multi-threaded then this upgrade probably won't help at all.)

Thank you very much for the quick and detailed response!

As for the gain or not with 8 cores, yes my load is multicore and yes I will have an expressive gain since with the i7 I still have a good thermal space.

My consumption at full load with maximum clocks (4.0GHz all cores) is only ~60W with my undervolt setting and the PL1 is 75W.

Furthermore, with PTM 7950 I can sustain up to 100W without thermal throttling (95-97ºC) in medium-term loads.

I'd say 90W can be sustained all the time at 88-92ºC.

[Aaron44126]

7 minutes ago, PHVM_BR said:

My consumption at full load with maximum clocks (4.0GHz all cores) is only ~60W with my undervolt setting and the PL1 is 75W.

Furthermore, with PTM 7950 I can sustain up to 100W without thermal throttling (95-97ºC) in medium-term loads.

I'd say 90W can be sustained all the time at 88-92ºC.

 

Sounds good, then just a matter of finding the motherboard that you want for a not-killer price ...!

Of course Dell has the full replacement steps in the service manual and you'll be repasting as well, but it sounds like you're comfortable with that (I see that you've actually done it in this system already).

[PHVM_BR]

10 minutes ago, Aaron44126 said:

 

Sounds good, then just a matter of finding the motherboard that you want for a not-killer price ...!

Of course Dell has the full replacement steps in the service manual and you'll be repasting as well, but it sounds like you're comfortable with that (I see that you've actually done it in this system already).

I've opened this system a few times but not at the level of replacing the motherboard.

I believe everything is fine.

As for the price, I got a new one with i9-9880H for 340 US dollars. What do you think?

[Aaron44126]

4 minutes ago, PHVM_BR said:

As for the price, I got a new one with i9-9880H for 340 US dollars. What do you think?

 

That is not too bad a price as far as new motherboards with a high-end CPU go.  Only you can decide if it is "worth it".

 

Motherboard replacement is not a difficult job (if you're already comfortable with a repaste), just a time-consuming one.  I replaced the motherboard in my Precision M6700 once and it took me an hour or so.  Just follow the steps in the service manual and set up something to keep your screws organized.