Laptop/notebook news and announcements discussion thread

[1610ftw]

7 hours ago, Papusan said:

This so called 24 cores cpu struggle to come on par with an 16x desktop CPU from last year. What a waste.

 

 

 

@Mr. Fox ready to jump on the first 18 inch laptop since the old days with Alienware? And be you sure... It will be thin. Yep, it will be thin as a pancake. Razers trademark. The laptop gamers will screeem........

 

Razer working on Blade 18 inch gaming laptop with 24-core Intel Core i9-13900HX
https://videocardz.com/newz/razer-working-on-blade-18-gaming-laptop-with-24-core-intel-core-i9-13900hx

 

We have a lot of smart stuff these days:

 

high end processors with huge intergenerational multicore performance jumps

(slightly) bigger screens coming back

very smart unified vapor chamber designs

models with pretty good bios options

liquid cooling

 

But no company is putting enough of this together and especially not in a socketed chassis.

 

Still curious what that Razer will be able to pull off once it is out even though there is only so much that can be done in a slim chassis and with processors that in their deskop version consume up to 300W.

 

https://wccftech.com/razer-blade-18-gaming-laptop-with-intel-24-core-i9-13900hx-5-4-ghz-cpu-leaks-out/

[Mr. Fox]

As long as sheeple keep buying whatever garbage they put out there, the scurvy notebook OEM/ODM losers will never do things well or proper. And, why should they if the majority of the ignorant suckers buying it accept that like good little lambs? The industry is built around the idea of doing as little as possible, to whatever extent consumers will put up with it. There is no pride in product, just misleading marketing rhetoric. They haven't found the bottom yet and, unfortunately, the same scummy-bastard brain cancer is starting to corrupt the desktop space. They build for a pauper, price for a prince, and the peasants keep coming back for more.

[1610ftw]

4 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

As long as sheeple keep buying whatever garbage they put out there, the scurvy notebook OEM/ODM losers will never do things well or proper. And, why should they if the majority of the ignorant suckers buying it accept that like good little lambs? The industry is built around the idea of doing as little as possible, to whatever extent consumers will put up with it. There is no pride in product, just misleading marketing rhetoric. They haven't found the bottom yet and, unfortunately, the same scummy-bastard brain cancer is starting to corrupt the desktop space. They build for a pauper, price for a prince, and the peasants keep coming back for more.

 

I need a laptop so these developments pain me. I got to tell you that you still have it so much better in the desktop space and the fact that laptops have fallen behind so much is only exacerbated by making them smaller and smaller while in a desktop you can go as big and crazy as you want compared to the ever shrinking laptop chassis.

 

As for the companies they would probably produce more big laptops if they would sell better but the average consumer wants portability to an unhealthy degree and the likes of us just aren't numerous enough. A good example is the recent MSI "Titan" that in many reviews has been criticized for being so heavy when it is about 7 lbs in weight. That was considered relatively light for a 17" laptop not too long ago and look where we are now where this is as big and heavy as it gets. 

[Mr. Fox]

11 minutes ago, 1610ftw said:

 

I need a laptop so these developments pain me. I got to tell you that you still have it so much better in the desktop space and the fact that laptops have fallen behind so much is only exacerbated by making them smaller and smaller while in a desktop you can go as big and crazy as you want compared to the ever shrinking laptop chassis.

 

As for the companies they would probably produce more big laptops if they would sell better but the average consumer wants portability to an unhealthy degree and the likes of us just aren't numerous enough. A good example is the recent MSI "Titan" that in many reviews has been criticized for being so heavy when it is about 7 lbs in weight. That was considered relatively light for a 17" laptop not too long ago and look where we are now where this is as big and heavy as it gets. 

Yes, you are exactly right. Goofball wusses and panty-waisted crybabies whining and moaning about things being "too thick" and "too heavy" ruined everything for everyone in the normal and enthusiast camps. And, they've gotten progressively worse, not better. I am so glad that I do not need to rely on a laptop any more. I would be extremely dissatisfied and unhappy with what is available, even if I hadn't already washed my hands and moved back to desktops.

[Clamibot]

2 hours ago, 1610ftw said:

 

I need a laptop so these developments pain me. I got to tell you that you still have it so much better in the desktop space and the fact that laptops have fallen behind so much is only exacerbated by making them smaller and smaller while in a desktop you can go as big and crazy as you want compared to the ever shrinking laptop chassis.

 

As for the companies they would probably produce more big laptops if they would sell better but the average consumer wants portability to an unhealthy degree and the likes of us just aren't numerous enough. A good example is the recent MSI "Titan" that in many reviews has been criticized for being so heavy when it is about 7 lbs in weight. That was considered relatively light for a 17" laptop not too long ago and look where we are now where this is as big and heavy as it gets. 

 

Reminds me of seeing people complain that the BRYDGE keyboard for the 12.9 inch iPad Pro is too heavy, even though it weighs less than a pound. There's no shortage of dinguses. If someone really thinks that a 7 pound laptop is heavy, they really need to go work out and beef up. I also can't believe people were complaining about a keyboard that weighed less than a pound!

[1610ftw]

44 minutes ago, Clamibot said:

 

Reminds me of seeing people complain that the BRYDGE keyboard for the 12.9 inch iPad Pro is too heavy, even though it weighs less than a pound. There's no shortage of dinguses. If someone really thinks that a 7 pound laptop is heavy, they really need to go work out and beef up. I also can't believe people were complaining about a keyboard that weighed less than a pound!

 

That keyboard is essentially turning the ipad into a macbook of sorts and people complain that it is too heavy? Incredible!

 

Stupid thinking like that should be called out whenever we encounter it. We need to speak up whenever we see something like that and answer directly to these misguided posts. Looking at the posts that complain about a 7lbs laptop you would think that the primary users of it will be teenage girls when in fact it will be adult men who are generally able to lift things that are a lot heavier than that.

 

I have a variety of laptops that range from 8 to about 16 lbs and up to 10 I still find it OK to grab the laptop with one hand if it is stable enough, above that it does not feel right anymore but up to 12 lbs I would still consider the weight manageable. Now we can probably be lucky to ever get another laptop that weighs even 9 lbs. 

To be clear I am not a fan of weight for weights sake but more weight may for example mean a socketed CPU and/or GPU and a vapor chamber design, more slots for memory and storage and of course a bigger screen - hard to do all of that when 7 lbs is considered heavy already.

 

[Mr. Fox]

20 minutes ago, Clamibot said:

 

Reminds me of seeing people complain that the BRYDGE keyboard for the 12.9 inch iPad Pro is too heavy, even though it weighs less than a pound. There's no shortage of dinguses. If someone really thinks that a 7 pound laptop is heavy, they really need to go work out and beef up. I also can't believe people were complaining about a keyboard that weighed less than a pound!

The same people have surprised looks on their faces when the turdbook they bought, that is as cute as a bug on a rug, overheats, thermal throttles, has lackluster performance, is difficult to service, dies prematurely and costs a fortune to repair because they have to buy a mobo, CPU and GPU even though only one of them is dead.

[1610ftw]

24 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

The same people have surprised looks on their faces when the turdbook they bought, that is as cute as a bug on a rug, overheats, thermal throttles, has lackluster performance, is difficult to service, dies prematurely and costs a fortune to repair because they have to buy a mobo, CPU and GPU even though only one of them is dead.

With a top end config you are probably looking at a board price of up to 2000$ whereas a mainboard for a Clevo DTR of old may be closer to 500.

Also a great use of resources to toss aside all that tech when only the CPU, GPU or something on the mainboard isn't working anymore.

 

If one is to keep a BGA book for any amount of time then not without an extended warranty that lets manufacturers deal with their product once it breaks.

[Papusan]

On 11/11/2022 at 12:08 AM, Mr. Fox said:

The same people have surprised looks on their faces when the turdbook they bought, that is as cute as a bug on a rug, overheats, thermal throttles, has lackluster performance, is difficult to service, dies prematurely and costs a fortune to repair because they have to buy a mobo, CPU and GPU even though only one of them is dead.

And worse it will be bro Fox. Much worse.

 

Yep, Mobile processors follow same paths as for laptop graphics cards. Worse performance and specs vs desktop counter parts. Worse in all ways. Laptop jockey's will lose more and more performance for each new gen HW.

Mobile Raptor Lake CPUs may not offer substantial multi-threaded improvements over Alder Lake.

 

So it seems that, for better or worse, Intel decided these mobile chips did not need more E-cores or P-cores.

 

Core i7-13700H, Core i5-13500H Retain Same Core Count As Alder Lake Counterparts tomshardware.com
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/core-i7-13700h-core-i5-13500h-retain-same-core-count-as-alder-lake-counterparts

 

And you can see the same pathern here as well. Even worse beacuse mobile processors won't get same treatment. Laptop jockey's will also lose performance vs the same mobile Cpu soldered in this cute mini Nuc box from Intel...

 

 

https://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/10243/intel-nuc-12-enthusiast-serpent-canyon-sff-pc/index.html

[Mr. Fox]

26 minutes ago, Papusan said:

And worse it will be bro Fox. Much worse.

 

Yep, Mobile processors follow same paths as for laptop graphics cards. Worse performance and specs vs desktop counter parts. Worse in all ways. Laptop jockey's will lose more and more performance for each new gen HW.

Mobile Raptor Lake CPUs may not offer substantial multi-threaded improvements over Alder Lake.

 

So it seems that, for better or worse, Intel decided these mobile chips did not need more E-cores or P-cores.

 

Core i7-13700H, Core i5-13500H Retain Same Core Count As Alder Lake Counterparts tomshardware.com
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/core-i7-13700h-core-i5-13500h-retain-same-core-count-as-alder-lake-counterparts

 

And you can see the same pathern here as well. Even worse beacuse mobile processors won't get same treatment. Laptop jockey's will also lose performance  if the same mobile Cpu is soldered into a mini Joke Nuc box from Intel...

 

 

https://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/10243/intel-nuc-12-enthusiast-serpent-canyon-sff-pc/index.html

I would expect nothing less. The target audience puts up with it. As always, we will have whatever the lowest common denominators are willing to tolerate. Laptops suck. That is never going to change. It is what it is. You shouldn't buy a laptop unless you absolutely have to have one. Even then it is a waste of money, just a necessary evil.

[1610ftw]

4 hours ago, Papusan said:

And worse it will be bro Fox. Much worse.

 

Yep, Mobile processors follow same paths as for laptop graphics cards. Worse performance and specs vs desktop counter parts. Worse in all ways. Laptop jockey's will lose more and more performance for each new gen HW.

Mobile Raptor Lake CPUs may not offer substantial multi-threaded improvements over Alder Lake.

 

So it seems that, for better or worse, Intel decided these mobile chips did not need more E-cores or P-cores.

 

Core i7-13700H, Core i5-13500H Retain Same Core Count As Alder Lake Counterparts tomshardware.com
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/core-i7-13700h-core-i5-13500h-retain-same-core-count-as-alder-lake-counterparts

 

And you can see the same pathern here as well. Even worse beacuse mobile processors won't get same treatment. Laptop jockey's will also lose performance vs the same mobile Cpu soldered in this cute mini Nuc box from Intel...

 

....

 

https://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/10243/intel-nuc-12-enthusiast-serpent-canyon-sff-pc/index.html

 

It would really help if both Intel, Nvidia and to a lesser degree AMD would stop being so disingenious and call a spade a spade.

 

For example I would guess that in a proper DTR design with a unified vapor chamber and Uniwill / TongFang style liquid cooling the RTX 3060, i9-12900HX and i9-13900HX could come relatively close to their desktop counterparts but how is this supposed to happen when the laptop chips aside from their lower power budget also have less cuda/ performance or efficiency cores than the desktop versions?

 

Then there are of course the laptops that do not even make the best out of the lesser chips they are given as their power envelope / cooling capacity isn't what it used to be. In this generation even with more capable cooling GPUs are limited by that silly 175W power limit imposed by Nvidia. On the other hand CPUs are hampered by throttling at well below 150W even in CPU-only workloads and with the chips being capable of going up to at least 200W. 

 

[Papusan]

Could be Nvidia this time will offer an bizarre upgrade for the laptop-jockey's if this rumors below is somewhat correct. The furture looks grim for people that still prefer laptops. 

NVIDIA RTX 40 Mobility Series GPUs Detailed: 30% Performance Gain Over Last Generation, Launch Date And More

[1610ftw]

Nvidia seems to have new criteria for their top laptop GPUs - they apparently aspire to be roughly half as fast as their desktop counterparts these days 😄

It also looks like maybe they saw the utter ridiculousness of calling a card with a sub 20K TimeSpy "4090" so they went for the slightly less stupid 4080Ti label.

 

3 cards at the top with the top card possibly having another fantasy name now is quite funny. As I am not interested in GPU performance that much it is fine with me but I would be very offended if I was buying one of those laptops with cards that are 4080Ti or 4090 in name only.

 

Oh well in the future it will probably be best to just get a big CPU that is still reasonably similar to its desktoip counterpart and then add an external GPU for more serious gaming - for the internal displays at QHD these cards should be good enough most of the time.

 

 

 

 

[Papusan]

47 minutes ago, 1610ftw said:

Nvidia seems to have new criteria for their top laptop GPUs - they apparently aspire to be roughly half as fast as their desktop counterparts these days 😄

It also looks like maybe they saw the utter ridiculousness of calling a card with a sub 20K TimeSpy "4090" so they went for the slightly less stupid 4080Ti label.

 

3 cards at the top with the top card possibly having another fantasy name now is quite funny. As I am not interested in GPU performance that much it is fine with me but I would be very offended if I was buying one of those laptops with cards that are 4080Ti or 4090 in name only.

 

Oh well in the future it will probably be best to just get a big CPU that is still reasonably similar to its desktoip counterpart and then add an external GPU for more serious gaming - for the internal displays at QHD these cards should be good enough most of the time.

 

 

 

 

Some birds tell me that the price target for the next gen higher end gaming laptops will be around 5000$. Damn nice price for half the performance, HaHa.

 

Happy I don't have to deal with this idiocy anymore. 

 

 

[1610ftw]

6 hours ago, Papusan said:

Some birds tell me that the price target for the next gen higher end gaming laptops will be around 5000$. Damn nice price for half the performance, HaHa.

 

Happy I don't have to deal with this idiocy anymore. 

 

 

No idea who will be paying that but it sure as hell won't be me😄

 

[KING19]

20 hours ago, Papusan said:

Could be Nvidia this time will offer an bizarre upgrade for the laptop-jockey's if this rumors below is somewhat correct. The furture looks grim for people that still prefer laptops. 

NVIDIA RTX 40 Mobility Series GPUs Detailed: 30% Performance Gain Over Last Generation, Launch Date And More

 

Its not surprising since the maximum wattage for Laptop GPUs are still stuck at 175W while desktop GPUs keep increasing their wattage every generation increasing the performance gap. With laptops continue to get thinner and thinner every year its very doubtful anything will change as long thin and light gaming laptops keep selling like hot cakes.

[1610ftw]

1 hour ago, KING19 said:

 

Its not surprising since the maximum wattage for Laptop GPUs are still stuck at 175W while desktop GPUs keep increasing their wattage every generation increasing the performance gap. With laptops continue to get thinner and thinner every year its very doubtful anything will change as long thin and light gaming laptops keep selling like hot cakes.

And they have made sure that sales will continue like that as even higher end laptops are so small now that they probably lost at least a third of their former case volume if not more. Never say never I guess now that we see a return of 18" screens but it will be worth a lot less if we do not get more substantial laptops to go along with those screens.

[Papusan]

Dell is in forefront or Apple's equal into being trendsetters. Not all can turn a laptop into a tablet and still call it a laptop😃 Is this a Joke bro @Mr. Fox ? Just remove the KB and push people intot their shop buying a small flimsy keyboard. Big win and increased profits, for DELL. Why is it so easy to fool buyers?🤔

 

But to function as a true laptop replacement, it needs the XPS Folio accessory (a $100 add-on), which is a kickstand, keyboard, and cover all in one.

 

Dell's 2-in-1 XP3 13 Laptop Becomes a Desirable Detachable Tablet pcmag.com

[VEGGIM]

2 hours ago, Papusan said:

Dell is in forefront or Apple's equal into being trendsetters. Not all can turn a laptop into a tablet and still call it a laptop😃 Is this a Joke bro @Mr. Fox ? Just remove the KB and push people intot their shop buying a small flimsy keyboard. Big win and increased profits, for DELL. Why is it so easy to fool buyers?🤔

 

But to function as a true laptop replacement, it needs the XPS Folio accessory (a $100 add-on), which is a kickstand, keyboard, and cover all in one.

 

Dell's 2-in-1 XP3 13 Laptop Becomes a Desirable Detachable Tablet pcmag.com

If you saw the flow z13 you would have a heart attack. While I agree that they should include the detachable keyboard. There is obviously a market for small tablet like laptops with things like the surface pro for example. Traditional Laptops/DTR's are not the entire world nor will it be the entire world. 

This is the equivalent of complaining about modern cars not having manual transmissions and having all automatics or cvts.

[Papusan]

1 hour ago, VEGGIM said:

If you saw the flow z13 you would have a heart attack. While I agree that they should include the detachable keyboard. There is obviously a market for small tablet like laptops with things like the surface pro for example. Traditional Laptops/DTR's are not the entire world nor will it be the entire world. 

This is the equivalent of complaining about modern cars not having manual transmissions and having all automatics or cvts.

Oh, be you sure. I had a longer article about the  flow z13 in the old NBR forum. A stupid concept. And I have no problem with tablets. Just call it what it is. A tablet and not a laptop. If people want a laptop, then don't try lure people into a tablet and say its a laptop. This would be the same as say a motorbike is a car. Or a plane is a boat🙂

 

[VEGGIM]

14 hours ago, Papusan said:

Oh, be you sure. I had a longer article about the  flow z13 in the old NBR forum. A stupid concept. And I have no problem with tablets. Just call it what it is. A tablet and not a laptop. If people want a laptop, then don't try lure people into a tablet and say its a laptop. This would be the same as say a motorbike is a car. Or a plane is a boat🙂

 

Thing is technically it is a laptop.  Because if it was a tablet, it would be a bad one Cuz it lacks the things that make a tablet a tablet. A tablet is mainly a larger phone. With the same efficiency, bigger screens, and in most cases faster than phones, but still retain things like cameras, webcams, long battery life, and so on. Thats the reason why the "2 in 1" laptop category exists. Its not a traditional laptop, but its still not enough to fit in the category as a tablet.

[1610ftw]

17 hours ago, VEGGIM said:

Traditional Laptops/DTR's are not the entire world nor will it be the entire world. 

 

Not sure in which world you live in but in my world there is currently not one decent (let alone great) 17"+ DTR whereas before we used to at least have a handful of them.

On the other hand there are hundreds and hundreds of BGA books and some of them even pretend to be part time tablets.