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Papusan
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I am not surprised by this at all.  Alder Lake is power hungry, even when compared to 11th gen.  Without increased cooling it's not going to run a whole lot better (although I figured there would be some difference, lol).

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Yeah Alder Lake is not friendly to laptops it seems. Currently I am interested in how the 5800X3D or something skin to it would run in laptops since there is no overclocking on it, would make more sense to see it in a platform that would make it more palatable to agree with the first non overclockable product from AMD in forever.

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On 4/8/2022 at 1:53 AM, Reciever said:

Yeah Alder Lake is not friendly to laptops it seems. Currently I am interested in how the 5800X3D or something skin to it would run in laptops since there is no overclocking on it, would make more sense to see it in a platform that would make it more palatable to agree with the first non overclockable product from AMD in forever.

One of the problem with the 5800X3D chips is the increased costs (Amd employeees  have already told us that these chips is more expensive than the regular Ryzen chips). I don't think that the OEMs out there is very keen pay up more than needed for chips. And AMD equipped laptops is meant to be the cheaper options from the OEMs. So this chips doesn't fit into this. Dead end on this wish before it started :)

 

We will see more nasty ways to throttle (cripple) hardware forwards. This is the only way to offset the thinner chassis design that is doomed to come. None of the OEMs want to put in weaker aka cheaper chips. Profits before everything. This is the main reason we see unlocked and more expensive HK chips from Intel in laptops that can't or struggle hard to cool the Cpu's. 

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10 minutes ago, Papusan said:

One of the problem with the 5800X3D chips is the increased costs (Amd employeees  have already told us that these chips is more expensive than the regular Ryzen chips). I don't think that the OEMs out there is very keen pay up more than needed for chips. And AMD equipped laptops is meant to be the cheaper options from the OEMs. So this chips doesn't fit into this. Dead end on this wish before it started :)

 

We will see more nasty ways to throttle (cripple) hardware forwards. This is the only way to offset the thinner chassis design that is doomed to come. None of the OEMs want to put in weaker aka cheaper chips. Profits before everything.

True enough, its likely that we would only see this chip in the AMD DTR from Clevo and only because someone sought it out to replace what they have on hand.

 

That is of course assuming the X3D chip actually delivers in a meaningful way over other 5xxx chips

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For thin notebooks the Turbo feature brings little benefit because of the limited ability to dissipate heat. I've just done an experiment with my LG Gram 17 (i7-1165G7) set on the Optimised cooling profile (when the fan is barely audible) and compared the wPrime times for Maximum processor state of 100% (turbo mode enabled) and 99% (turbo mode disabled): For 100%, wPrime 32M = 7.15s, 1024M = 305.7s; and for 99% wPrime 32M = 9.6s, 1024M = 311.2s. This highlights the significant difference turbo brings for a task that takes no more than a couple of seconds but for anything more challenging then the CPU is running at non-turbo speed for thermal reasons. A pending task is to see the effect of using LG's Performance cooling mode. There's actually plenty of room in the notebook for a bigger cooling system but that would push it over 3lb weight which, I suspect, was one of the design team's objectives. Nonetheless, the limited CPU performance doesn't prevent the notebook from feeling very responsive. Fast RAM and fast SSD are important components.

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165 W vs. 105 W GeForce RTX 3080 Ti: It matters most at higher resolutions notebookcheck.com

 

It's worth noting that the GS77 would consistently produce faster frame rates in most lower resolution scenarios before eventually falling behind the Blade 17 when the resolutions were set higher. This can be attributed to the Core i7-12700H in the MSI running faster than the Core i7-12800H in the Razer despite the Core i7-12800H being the faster processor on paper. As shown by our reviews of each system, the GS77 is able to maintain higher TDP levels for its CPU when compared to the "faster" CPU in the Razer which runs at lower clock rates and temperatures.

 

Yep, you can provide better thermal headroom/less crippling of the Cpu if you put in castrated Graphics cards.

 

 

Test pilot: MSI GS77 Stealth 12UHS - sharp gaming computer that raises questions sweclockers.com

 

Design over functionality...

 

Temperature and sound level
At this point, we have already noted that the computer is very limited in its design, especially when it comes to power budget and to some extent also the development of heat. It is now time for us to take a closer look at the slightly more subjective experience with heat and sound level.

The short answer regarding the sound level leaves a lot to be desired, at least under heavier loads. The computer becomes very loud with the fans pulled at a time and it is not just about the measurable sound level itself, but also the character of the sound that the fans give off. It's a classic hissing sound that can be expected from thin blade fans, the kind of sound that at least cuts through open headphones.

 

The subjective heat development is totally catastrophic in my opinion. Even after two to five minutes of use in a slightly more demanding scenario, then the computer becomes so hot that it feels unusable without externally connected devices. The keyboard becomes uncomfortably hot to rest your hands on and eventually a runny hand sweat occurs.

 

Upon closer inspection, it turns out that both heat and power budget is a huge problem for the MSI GS77 Stealth 12UHS. The graphics card constantly beats the 80-watt power ceiling, and sometimes the thermal ceiling at the same time. This causes the graphics card to clock itself down to an alarmingly low 585 MHz. 

 

When we reach the performance tests for processor and graphics, however, the fun ends. All the performance figures presented have a hard time meeting the expectation instilled by components such as the Intel Core i9-12900H and Nvidia Geforce RTX 3080 Ti. Playing in the built-in 4K UHD resolution is almost out of the question, as we see minimum levels below the 30 FPS limit far too often. A similar behavior can be seen in the synthetic tests, where the own laptop with an RTX 3070 beats the RTX 3080 Ti that is in MSI's machine.

 

In conclusion, I do not really understand the purpose of this product at all. The MSI GS77 Stealth 12UHS I tested is sold at the time of writing for SEK 50,000 and comes with top-class hardware. In practice, the computer performs worse than other machines sold for less than half the price. Personally, I do not feel that surrounding things like slim design, sound or the built-in screen panel justify the high price tag.

 

Once again... The OEMs offer what people think they want.... A real Apple copy cat for Windows OS. And it will be worse. Because Intel, Amd and Nvidia will corporate with the OEMs also for next gen slim and thin laptop design. We will see improved software/firmware and drivers for Cpu/Gpu tuning so the HW won't boil to death in next gen laptops. And this won't benefit the laptop users. Only themself. RMA costs money. Same also for tech support. 

 

 

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 4/9/2022 at 9:38 AM, Papusan said:

 

When we reach the performance tests for processor and graphics, however, the fun ends. All the performance figures presented have a hard time meeting the expectation instilled by components such as the Intel Core i9-12900H and Nvidia Geforce RTX 3080 Ti. Playing in the built-in 4K UHD resolution is almost out of the question, as we see minimum levels below the 30 FPS limit far too often.

 

 

 

my 3060 runs most games at 4k mixed settings....why are they maxing the games at 4k the image difference is so slight...what ever happened to smart decisions. world needs a bannana

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Hey guys been a long time. Couple of days back, had a convo with unclewebb and came to know 12th gen BGA H series doesn't have undervolt and only HK has them. He said this move was disappointing.

As always new isn't always better.

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Anyone familiar with StarLabs laptop/labTops? How good the aftersales service is or similar?

I am interested in coreboot based minimal BIOS instead of Aptio 5.x? Also they have physical DIMM slots instead of soldered DIMMs.

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When OEMs prefer to milk you to last drop without reason. Offer a useless upgrade as forced for the bigger profits.

 

image.png.512610396cce4803299faab60fbbc466.png

 

"With the Pulse GL66, MSI's fairly new gaming series still reveals some adjustment problems. The expensive CPU doesn't perform at its full level, and a more affordable model would have lowered the price of the system to a more appropriate level"

 

MSI Pulse GL66 review: Is the i9-12900H improving the RTX-3060 gaming laptop or only making it more expensive?
 

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  • 3 weeks later...

read or skimmed that review. it got 98 percent rating for games performance even though gpu is sloooooooooooooooooooooow.. my stock is like 9 percent faster that its stock overall and like 18 percent faster gpu performance apples to apples

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