HP ZBook Fury G9/G10 (16") General Thread

[DarginMahkum]

Looks like UV unlocking the HP / InsydeH2O BIOS is a PITA. I have been reading the forums, trying H2OUVE etc. with no success. Interestingly I haven't so far seen any unlocking thread anywhere for recent 11th or 12th gen ZBook laptops.

[win32asmguy]

40 minutes ago, DarginMahkum said:

Looks like UV unlocking the HP / InsydeH2O BIOS is a PITA. I have been reading the forums, trying H2OUVE etc. with no success. Interestingly I haven't so far seen any unlocking thread anywhere for recent 11th or 12th gen ZBook laptops.

 

The same technique applies across all the generations, just the version of ME Tools has to match your ME Firmware version:

 

https://brendangreenley.com/undervolting-2020-dell-laptops-like-the-vostro-7500-and-more-tips-to-improve-thermals-battery-life-and-speed/#cpu-undervolt

 

With the Thinkpad P16 I ran into an issue where the bios setup variable region was locked even in the grub pre-boot environment. Probably some security related setting that is not modifiable. Although it did not really need undervolting anyways as the cooling system (CPU side vapor chamber + PTM7950 + good AC/DC LLC config + 157W PL1/PL2) did well as is. You could probably expect 22000+ in CBR23 from the 12900HX as its the most setup to handle it as a turnkey solution.

[DarginMahkum]

8 minutes ago, win32asmguy said:

 

The same technique applies across all the generations, just the version of ME Tools has to match your ME Firmware version:

 

https://brendangreenley.com/undervolting-2020-dell-laptops-like-the-vostro-7500-and-more-tips-to-improve-thermals-battery-life-and-speed/#cpu-undervolt

 

With the Thinkpad P16 I ran into an issue where the bios setup variable region was locked even in the grub pre-boot environment. Probably some security related setting that is not modifiable. Although it did not really need undervolting anyways as the cooling system (CPU side vapor chamber + PTM7950 + good AC/DC LLC config + 157W PL1/PL2) did well as is. You could probably expect 22000+ in CBR23 from the 12900HX as its the most setup to handle it as a turnkey solution.

Yes, but that is the if you are able to read or want to read the BIOS (matching ME Tools version) image.The method you posted works if you can do that and I was able to unlock other laptops with this method easily. But I am not sure when the matching tools will come, thus I was trying to use the image I had from the update package. What I was trying was using the BIOS update image without using the ME Tools. 

The problem you mentioned, not being able to update the variables is the second issue, also with the G9. If I update something, even if I read it back as the modified value, it reverts back to the original after exiting the grub. I tried disabling all the security features in the BIOS menus but didn't help.

[1610ftw]

I hope you get this sorted out. With no help from HP and a limited enthusiast community it won't be easy but if you only need 16" this has so much potential that it would be a shame not to realize it.

[DarginMahkum]

Looks like this laptop is going back. The fans are running constantly, even during startup and BIOS settings, and it gets really warm. Reverted all the BIOS options back to factory settings and still nothing. The BIOS diagnostics SW show >2200 rpm while basically doing nothing.

 

Also under Linux I somehow could not enable the full performance mode. Dell laptops, for example, have some SMBios utilities to adjust the thermal / performance characteristics but I couldn't find anything for HP changing that. Setting the governer to performance, adjusting via cpufreq doesn't help.

[fp23]

Hi,

 

Here is a nice review of the ZBook Fury G9: 

 

 

The reviewer didn't notice any bad fan noises (with the optional vapor chamber).

 

The G9 is still the best choice compared to the Dell / Lenovo workstations. The P16 doesn't even have an ethernet port or WAN options which are required characteristics for a proper workstation in my opinion.

[1610ftw]

On 11/26/2022 at 9:35 AM, fp23 said:

The P16 doesn't even have an ethernet port or WAN options which are required characteristics for a proper workstation in my opinion.

 

Back in the days workstations used to have an optical drive and at least one and often 2 2.5" drives. Those drives took up space that would have been sufficient for 5 to 8 M2 SSDs and Lenovo dares o give us 2 - in a workstation this is laughable.

 

 

On 11/26/2022 at 9:35 AM, fp23 said:

The reviewer didn't notice any bad fan noises (with the optional vapor chamber).

 

The G9 is still the best choice compared to the Dell / Lenovo workstations. The P16 doesn't even have an ethernet port or WAN options which are required characteristics for a proper workstation in my opinion.

 

Both @win32asmguyand @DarginMahkumwould obviously like to differ. With regard to fan noise HP have gone out of their way to shoot themselves in the foot with their lack of configurability and overzealous power limits for some time now - shame. This generation I would only go with an MSI - too many compromises with the others even though MSI do also have their issues..

[fp23]

Thanks for your suggestion. I couldn't find an MSI with Intel 12th / 128Gb ram. The rest of their models are too gaming-focused for me. Real alternatives are, in my opinion, Dell Precision 7670 and Lenovo ThinkPad P16. 

 

1 hour ago, 1610ftw said:

Both @win32asmguyand @DarginMahkumwould obviously like to differ. With regard to fan noise HP have gone out of their way to shoot themselves in the foot with their lack of configurability and overzealous power limits for some time now - shame. This generation I would only go with an MSI - too many compromises with the others even though MSI do also have their issues..

 

Of course, that's why I posted this review here. Maybe these are different versions (BIOS and specs)? However, I agree that their lack of configuration is a bit concerning for Linux users. I hope they will fix that with upcoming BIOS updates.

[1610ftw]

2 hours ago, fp23 said:

Thanks for your suggestion. I couldn't find an MSI with Intel 12th / 128Gb ram. The rest of their models are too gaming-focused for me. Real alternatives are, in my opinion, Dell Precision 7670 and Lenovo ThinkPad P16. 

 

With regard to hardware and performance the CreatorPro X17 / GT77 are overall the best DTRs of this generation,

 

postiives:

very high maximum CPU performance and still relatively high sustained performance

best in class GPU performance

very nice keyboard keys

fans are generally very quiet and can be configured to one's taste

extensive bios options

regular memory that can be upgraded properly, up to 128GB

4 x NVME SSD slots, up to 32 TB

relatively good battery life of 6+ hours

relatively light weight at a bit more than 7 lbs

 

 

Downsides:

CPU and GPU are soldered (could be a concern when warranty has expired but you can get 4 years over here)

Screens are UHD only

the Case is very deep

funny keyboard layout

speakers have good volume but little bass for an overall underwhelming experience

 

I will not comment on looks as they are not that bad imo, just not great.

 

 

2 hours ago, fp23 said:

Of course, that's why I posted this review here. Maybe these are different versions (BIOS and specs)? However, I agree that their lack of configuration is a bit concerning for Linux users. I hope they will fix that with upcoming BIOS updates.

 

I doubt it is different versions as much as it is a generally less demanding review. Look at the CB R23 multicore result - very bad numbers for this model and for an 8+8 core HX processor in general but he does not even mention it as an issue, same for the GPU scores. He is not critical of that part of the performance so he may also be forgiving with regard to fan noise.

 

In any case even if it now was more quiet the last generations that I have tested all had the annoying tendency to ramp fans up and down a lot - very annoying and nothing that can be circumvented as HP uses their own AI/ machine learning for the fans - one cannot make these things up they are so silly.

 

With regard to Linux support I could not comment on that but if that is an issue it would indeed be a big downside.

 

[fp23]

Thanks for your feedback. CreatorPro X17 / GT77 are indeed great but cannot be considered a real alternative to me as they are both 17" models.

 

I agree that the reviewer may have been forgiving on these points.

Limited CPU performance seems to be a conscious choice for HP as they aim to make long-lasting/safe models.

However, the lack of fan configuration/misbehavior is a real concern, and I hope this will get fixed by the next BIOS versions.

 

I still consider this model, but I have many concerns regarding the noise. The next Intel generation will surely be interesting, but I will have to wait much longer.

[1610ftw]

1 hour ago, fp23 said:

Thanks for your feedback. CreatorPro X17 / GT77 are indeed great but cannot be considered a real alternative to me as they are both 17" models.

 

I agree that the reviewer may have been forgiving on these points.

Limited CPU performance seems to be a conscious choice for HP as they aim to make long-lasting/safe models.

However, the lack of fan configuration/misbehavior is a real concern, and I hope this will get fixed by the next BIOS versions.

 

I still consider this model, but I have many concerns regarding the noise. The next Intel generation will surely be interesting, but I will have to wait much longer.

 

If you are looking at 16" it is hard - if pressed I would probably right now go with the thick 7670 as there is a solution for fan noise from what I hear but only if I needed at most 32 or 64GB memory as I find the memory prices from Dell extortionist.

 

HP will probably do nothing to address the fan issues - they have been lacking in that regard for years which is truly puzzling. It would be no problem to allow for manual adjustments with built in fail safes for people who overdo it.

 

 

[fp23]

2 hours ago, 1610ftw said:

 

If you are looking at 16" it is hard - if pressed I would probably right now go with the thick 7670 as there is a solution for fan noise from what I hear but only if I needed at most 32 or 64GB memory as I find the memory prices from Dell extortionist.

 

HP will probably do nothing to address the fan issues - they have been lacking in that regard for years which is truly puzzling. It would be no problem to allow for manual adjustments with built in fail safes for people who overdo it.

 

 

 

Fortunately, I am not that pressed at that time.

 

Thanks for your suggestions!

[1610ftw]

15 minutes ago, fp23 said:

 

Fortunately, I am not that pressed at that time.

 

Thanks for your suggestions!

 

That is a good situation to be in 🙂

[fp23]

6 hours ago, 1610ftw said:

 

That is a good situation to be in 🙂

Sure, I hope next year's models will be a bit better, altough the design will roughly be the same (cooling vents are misplaced in my opinion).

[DarginMahkum]

15 hours ago, 1610ftw said:

HP will probably do nothing to address the fan issues - they have been lacking in that regard for years which is truly puzzling. It would be no problem to allow for manual adjustments with built in fail safes for people who overdo it.

Using AI / neural networks for such an uncomplicated control problem is a failed attempt, and I don't understand why anyone would do that other than for advertising reasons. And as you said, if they would give the user a simple tweaking option and let the rest to be handled by the thermal throttling, all would be fine.

 

The problem is, the laptop gets hot even during BIOS settings and fans ramp up, so they have bigger problems there, and that clearly is against the "workstations need to be on the safe side, that is why they downtune it" argument.

[1610ftw]

1 hour ago, DarginMahkum said:

Using AI / neural networks for such an uncomplicated control problem is a failed attempt, and I don't understand why anyone would do that other than for advertising reasons. And as you said, if they would give the user a simple tweaking option and let the rest to be handled by the thermal throttling, all would be fine.

 

The problem is, the laptop gets hot even during BIOS settings and fans ramp up, so they have bigger problems there, and that clearly is against the "workstations need to be on the safe side, that is why they downtune it" argument.

 

Yep, completely unnecessary and not smart at all to complicate fan control like that once you realize that not all users have the same goals and tolerance to noise - impossible to please everybody.

 

Not sure though I would hold the bios settings against HP in particular - they probably do not expect a normal user to spend any substantial amount of time in the bios and my Dell also tends to get louder when in its bios for a while.

 

[DarginMahkum]

21 hours ago, 1610ftw said:

Not sure though I would hold the bios settings against HP in particular - they probably do not expect a normal user to spend any substantial amount of time in the bios and my Dell also tends to get louder when in its bios for a while.

Didn't really need much time to turn into a flying toaster. If a laptop is doing that, I think there's something wrong with the clock settings for the very simple interface framework used in BIOS. At least I don't have it with my 12900H Razer. I will check my wife's XPS17 with 12900HK (both RB and XPS have PTM7950).

[win32asmguy]

16 hours ago, DarginMahkum said:

Didn't really need much time to turn into a flying toaster. If a laptop is doing that, I think there's something wrong with the clock settings for the very simple interface framework used in BIOS. At least I don't have it with my 12900H Razer. I will check my wife's XPS17 with 12900HK (both RB and XPS have PTM7950).

 

The system will consume more power in the bios because no drivers are loaded for the CPU and GPU to enable c-states which allow the chips to drop into lower power consumption modes based on demand. Also, the 12900HK has less cores, cache and no PCH so it could draw as much as 20W less in this scenario compared to 12900HX + WM690.

 

The stock paste job can also have a chance to be poorly applied at the factory which can result in higher fan noise as the highest core temperature is usually used as the determination for fan speed. Check the P-core temperature deltas under load with CBR23 Multi as usually a poor paste job could have as much of a 20C difference between the highest and lowest. It is especially unlucky if the favored cores have poor contact because that means it likely will thermal throttle in single core loads and cannot reach a full 5.0ghz boost, along with crappy fan response as load spikes can cause 50C jumps.

[DarginMahkum]

12 minutes ago, win32asmguy said:

The system will consume more power in the bios because no drivers are loaded for the CPU and GPU to enable c-states which allow the chips to drop into lower power consumption modes based on demand. Also, the 12900HK has less cores, cache and no PCH so it could draw as much as 20W less in this scenario compared to 12900HX + WM690.

Can't the BIOS run on one core and set the CPU registers accordingly? There should be a method to disable or power down the GPU by settings some registers in BIOS, no?

[win32asmguy]

On 11/30/2022 at 9:38 AM, DarginMahkum said:

Can't the BIOS run on one core and set the CPU registers accordingly? There should be a method to disable or power down the GPU by settings some registers in BIOS, no?

 

Well HP definitely has their own custom GUI bios implementation for their business laptop line, similar to Dell and Lenovo. It is hard to say if it could use some optimization but they may not want to touch it so long as it is stable.

 

I did not spend too much time in the bios on mine (maybe 2-3 minutes) and did not notice fan noise going above 2500rpm, other than when I performed the bios update where it always sets the fans to max speed. I have wondered if rendering the bios GUI to a 4k display makes it consume more CPU power. My Zbook Fury G9 had a WUXGA panel but my wife's Zbook X2 G4 tablet has a 4k panel and is noticeably louder and more laggy in the bios GUI.

[FlashWolf]

Hey guys,

 

its a long journey for me with the new alder lake hx workstations, a month ago i received an dell 7670 and 7770 workstation but i am really unhappy with it, it feels slowish especially when working with vmware workstation. 

also we tried to put this performance issues in numbers and see there cinebench r23 shows around 14500- 15500 points with an i9 12950hx in the dell precisions.

 

today i received an hp fury g9 with an 12950hx and see there first single multicore run shows 19675 points, its an astonishing value compared to the dell precisions out of the box.

 

but i've read here, that there are some options which should be activated live fans always on and performance mode. 

i already checked the bios, but there is no fans always on mode? and where exactly do i activate the performance mode?

 

 

thanks in advance

[Easa]

On 12/12/2022 at 11:17 AM, FlashWolf said:

Today i received an hp fury g9 with an 12950hx and see there first single multicore run shows 19675 points, its an astonishing value compared to the dell precisions out of the box.

 

How would you compare it to 7670 / 7770 built quality wise? Keyboard typing, overall quality ?

 

AFAIK All HP laptops always had the option to "FAN Always on" or "FAN Always on while on AC Power", so it is somewhere in the BIOS, look under Advanced => Built-in Device Options. 

[FlashWolf]

First i am sorry for my english, so thats a translated one:

 

The overall quality feel of the HP is very good. The surface feels valuable, there are also no gaps or similar! With the Dell 7670 I had large gaps, especially on the display lid and the lower cover, with the Dell you have to unscrew 6 screws to access the internal hardware, with the HP it is enough to push a small lever to the left and the cover opens. Without screws! However, this cover is quite wobbly and you notice when working if you put your hands on the palm rest, the cover gives a small creak at the bottom.
I like the overall quality of the Dell better than the HP, although as I said my 7670 had large gaps that were also quite uncomfortable when you had your hand on the tray.

I like the touchpad better on the HP notebook, firstly the touchpad is a lot bigger, also feels smoother and has 2 dedicated buttons. On the Dell, this is all integrated into the touchpad (clickpad).

The keyboard is a matter of taste, but I must honestly say that I have only used Dell Precisions as a workstation for the last 6 years and am therefore used to this keyboard, the keyboard feels different on the HP, which is partly due to the fact that the island style keys have a slightly larger gap to each other than those of the Dell. On the plus side, the Enter key is full-size on the HP and not full-size on the Dell, so it's kind of truncated. 
In general, I think both keyboards are on par.

If you now look at the technical side, I see the HP as the clear winner!
The CPU never and I really emphasize NEVER goes above 64 degrees when working with 3 virtual machines! In the Cinebench R23 benchmark, the maximum temperature is 90 degrees. The CPU in the Dell 7670 constantly goes up to 100 degrees and then throttles, the surface itself is constantly hot in the Dell no matter where you touch it. It is really unpleasant to work with. The HP stays within the optimal range for the surface temperature.

So I am very disappointed with the current Dell generation from a technical point of view, hence the move from Dell to HP after 6 years.

 

[Snoflo]

Just giving everyone a heads up that HP has a serious part backorder situation regarding the Fury. I have been waiting 6 weeks for a motherboard replacement from HP (I'm in the Latin America and the Caribbean zone). HP won't even acknowledge my latest request to replace the machine. 

 

In the past I owned the Dell Precision M6600, M6800, HP ZBook 17 G5, Lenovo's P51, P53, P17 Gen 2 prior to the ZBook 16 Fury G9. This the first time I have experienced a hardware failure. Other than the motherboard issues I began experiencing, it is a great machine. HP service, not so much.

 

As the system is prone to random freezes I cannot work on it. I'm currently using it to play Cyberpunk 2077 (RTX A5500). Ironically, I had to order a Dell Precision mobile workstation to do my work on in the meantime. 

 

Needless to say, this has not been money well spent.

[Easa]

16 hours ago, Snoflo said:

Needless to say, this has not been money well spent.

 

You probably just got a lemon. Happens. I had 5-6 RMA Issues back on M4800, zero with Zbook G1 🙂 But it is true that the HP service just does not compare to Dell, thats a whole different league.

 

Anyways, my contact in HP just responded after holiday slumber, I will have this configuration for a review:

https://www.lasystems.be/en/hp-62u90ea-abh