win32asmguy

@electrosoft

The family is taking a road over the next couple of weeks and my wife asked about something we could use to enjoy WoW to do collectors bounty and other relatively non-demanding things while driving.

So first we look at some windows handhelds that are on sale for under $1000. But then we remembered about her Zbook X2 G4 2-in-1 tablet which does have a low power Quadro M620 GPU. Got it up and going after clearing up some space:

Its pretty decent in the old raids at lowest settings (but view distance medium so flying around is not miserable). Unfortunately our config has the 7500U dual core, and while the memory is modular it only has 8GB in it right now which is pretty tight for just WoW. The SSD is also modular so I would want to put 1-2TB into it if I go through the process of removing the display and mobo to get access to everything.

Running around dornogal doing profession dailies smoothed out a bit after switching to dedicated only mode. It tanks battery life but the 90W power brick should be fine to use in our car. The next trick will be to get the ConsolePort addon installed and a controller setup without messing our regular keybinds.

2 hours ago, electrosoft said:

I looked into MSI too for a down the road potential and I don't understand why they're not offering a QHD+ variant of their flagship 9955HX3D. Toss in making mLED the only option and insane asking price ($5099?!) and they just basically removed this year's version from my list even down the road. 5090 Mobile is decent relatively speaking but not much of an upgrade over 4090 mobile. Timespy GPU,  It is basically a desktop 5070 in normal operating conditions (~23k) and I'm not looking to push that on a 4k display. I think the screen is capped to 120hz anyhow? Just a bunch of swinging and missing.

 

On the other hand, the 285hx variant with QHD+ is down to $3299.99 at Microcenter so you're saving ~35% and getting a QHD option and yes in certain games the 9950HX3D is going to light it up, but overall? You still get the MSI open bios options too so I would snatch up the MSI 285HX over the 9955HX3D all day everyday even with Intel somewhat Ultra woes.

 

I just wish Eluktronics offered an 18" version but I've been contemplating picking up a portable 24" 1080p 100hz+ panel for travel/gaming along with a wireless KB/M and if that is the case, a 16" would be just fine and probably make the travel case easier to manage.

There is no reason MSI could not offer a Raider 18 config with 9955HX3D, 5090M, QHD+ 240hz, 2x16GB and 2TB Gen4 SSD for ~$3500 or less. Going beyond single rank with memory is silly for a gaming system and paying for overpriced Gen5 OEM SSD's is just as bad. Also should have a vapor chamber too. They are just too disconnected from what their customer base would want to see these poor config choices.

The Intel Raider 18 is definitely interesting with its further price drop. It also has a TB5 port that is MUXed to the iGPU in hybrid mode which is essentially why I did not stay with the 14th Gen + 4090 systems. The Hydroc G2 has that as well though and to be honest its build quality is better, it is more portable which is nice as I take it to work each day along with traveling. I also am eager to try out the Premamod bios which should be available soon. MSI does have unlocked advanced options but that does not mean it has bugs or other weird stuff fixed. Lets not even talk about the stupid RGB zone rainbow defaults they use now...

On 7/1/2025 at 9:30 AM, electrosoft said:

Look at Dream Machine's X3D 5090:

Nice reviews. Eventually we should get some good details on how Eluktronics variants of AMD and Intel do. I am disappointed that MSI will not sell 9955HX3D + QHD+ 240hz + 5090. Their loss to neglect users who do not want UHD+ or their miniLED without FALD option. The prices on the AMD Raider 18 are still rediculous anyways. Nobody should be paying that much for what it is.

The AMD chip would have to be significantly better than the 275HX to be worth trying to swap to it. I guess it should at least be superior in memory latency.

8 hours ago, Talon said:

 

If you don't nee the cores, get the 265KF at Microcenter shipped nation wide for $210. Best deal on a CPU I've seen in a long time. 265K is same silicon quality as 285K with 4 less E cores. It's like they downclocked the P cores just to make a new SKU. But My 265K clocked as high, if not higher on P cores than my 285K, and same on E cores. It actually ahs lower latency just due to the design of the chip that cannot be mimicked on the 285K, no matter which E cores you disable.

That is very interesting. Why is the latency better on the 265K? Also the numbers for cache do no add up. 3x8MB per P-core and 3x4MB per e-core should be 32MB total instead of 30MB. Either way the price of the 265K at $270 is significantly less than $560 for the 285K.

15 hours ago, electrosoft said:

That Schenker Neo 16 is an absolute beast with the 9955HX3D (time stamped) 

 

Note: Lacking 7945HX3D results again even on NotebookCheckReviews..... that can't be a coincidence. They also conveniently omitted 4090 results too but had 4080 and even 14900HX results. It's subtle BS like this that irks me.

Interestingly enough the AMD Neo 16 ships with lower latency Kingston Fury 2x16GB 5600 CL40 modules which is significantly better than most other units they had reviewed. For a while I think they had even compared it to an Intel 275HX Neo which was using the 6400 CL52 CSODIMMs.

Speaking of laptop memory Prema is validating the Eluktronics Manix 2x16GB CSODIMM kit with an XMP profile that should decently close the gap with desktop arrow lake memory. I do not know timings but this was a resulting Timespy run:

https://www.3dmark.com/spy/56560323

6 hours ago, electrosoft said:

Sheesh, that is a sick price.

 

$210 + $371 for an open box Apex (when they pop on da egg) looks pretty righteous atm.

I think I would still opt for the Taichi OCF as its less risky than getting a damaged open box board and having to ship it back and forth for replacement. Unless the Apex has some specific features that make it better than the Taichi.

19 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

Yeah what's even funnier is initially JarrodTech would list the 7945HX3D results from his Scar when comparing the initial 5090 models for gaming but when he started reviewing 18" later 5090 models with Intel's new chips, he stopped listing benchmarks for games with the 7945HX3D. He lists the 7945HX3D for CPU performance in CB2024 and such but games results he doesn't.

 

I think it was because the Scar was dominating the benchmark charts with the 4090 even against the newer Intel CPUs and 5090. I called him out on the last two 5090 laptop review videos he posted and he never responded.

 

Most likely a condition from the OEMs and/or Nvidia. No logical reason to not include X3D results but it makes the new laptops look even poorer in his gaming testing suite.

Yeah it does not make sense to omit benchmark data collected, especially considering the amount of time it takes to generate. He did have to completely redo his tests with the laptop 5090 because of the bugged power limit in early drivers.

Nvidia is having a rough time selling the 5090 mobile. I am surprised it is not 200W as I have seen it pulling over 30k in Timespy shunted. Maybe a theoretical 9070M would be close enough to make them bump the magical PL barrier up a notch in January!

9955HX3D from Eluktronics is supposed to be released next month. I think they are going to try and get as much tuning unlocked on it as possible, along with the new 140W PPT that AMD allows which is much greater than the 100W we got with the 7945HX3D.

On another note, I know you had mentioned 285K a few times here and there. Have you looked at any Z890 boards? I was thinking about testing an Asrock Taichi OCF with a 285K and see how it does with the 5090 compared to the Xeon.

43 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

Laptops?

 

When the MSI Raider 285hx/5090 dropped it was $4899.99. It then dropped to $4099.99 and it is now $3499.99 which is $1400 less.

 

MSI Titan 285hx/5090 dropped at $5399.99  then $4999.99 and it is now $4499.99 so $900 less.

 

Asus Strix Scar dropped at $5499.99 and it is now $3999.99 so $1500 less (crazy greed)

 

Even the Dell Alienware 18 dropped at $4k which was the most reasonable of the lot and it is now down to $3300 so $700 less.

 

All in the face of tariffs and market uncertainties....

 

Absolute greed. The biggest shocking offender to me is MSI which always felt like Asus but at more reasonable pricing especially with their Raider line up. They just went for the ultimate money grab with their Raider series this time but market realities have forced them to come back to reality and adjust pricing drastically down to back along the lines of last gen offerings.

 

Clearly Newegg didn't get the memo (yet) and has their prices still jacked to high heaven and are stuck on phase one pricing mark downs.

The funny part about all of these new models is the CPU is at best a side-grade to a 14900HX. Its pretty weird to spend a moderate time trying to tune and decide that sub 90ns memory latency is good enough for now. If it were not for the fact that the 275HX model has better display output connection configurations I would have just stuck with 14th Gen.

On 6/21/2025 at 2:05 AM, faster-ai said:

Hi again @win32asmguy. I’m also considering whether to go for the Uniwill/Tongfang IDY or go for the Clevo X580. Is the IDY's BIOS confirmed to not use Intel BootGuard? In other words, can the BIOS be freely modified without being blocked by fused BootGuard protections? The Clevo is attractive because there’s a community-maintained BIOS repository and Service Manual (some models even including motherboard schematics), which is incredibly valuable for DIY, modding, and repairs （https://repo.palkeo.com/clevo-mirror/  username and password are both repo). But the repo currently lacks X580's Service Manual, so I’m unsure if this one will ever be released.

Meanwhile, for the Uniwill IDY, I’m seeing fewer signs of public BIOS or Service Manual availability. Do you know if Uniwill/Tongfang provides a public BIOS or if anyone has shared its Service Manual and motherboard schematics?

The IDY also boasts water cooling, which is appealing. But the X580 offers four drive bays and dual LAN ports—another strong point. Do you have a perference on which platform?

Hello! As far as bootguard goes I would need to test the Hydroc G2 and its state could vary from vendor to vendor. Even so the Hydroc G2 will get a Premamod bios so its going to be tuneable regardless. Prema may be able to make the mod then hand it up the chain to be signed for distribution to Eluk customers.

The X580 service manual should eventually show up there, or if you purchase from System76 they will provide it as well if requested.

I chose the Hydroc G2 over the X580 because the bios was locked on the X580, and the cost of the System76 X580 would have been over $5000. The Hydroc also has a TB4 port wired to the iGPU so it can drive an external display without the Nvidia GPU active which is a bit plus to me. The Clevo X560 is also wired that way, but it only goes up to a 5070ti mobile through Sager / System76 so not as appealing to me. This platform also needs to have memory tuned so its on par with competitors which would be much harder to do with the Clevo X560 or X580.

On 6/15/2025 at 1:07 PM, electrosoft said:

MSI sent me one of these for eval so I'll be swapping it in tomorrow so I can fully check the M4 Max at 1440p for WoW testing compared to the MSI Raider 18 at 1440p along with the 5070 desktop. I might test my 9070xt at 1440p just for some extra data.

Did you get a chance to test out that display? I currently use a MAG 274QRF QD E2 which has been a pretty decent monitor other than a few weird quirks. The display resume time from a sleep state is pretty slow 5 seconds or more. It has a USB hub, but the hub shuts off when the monitor is sleeping so you cannot wake the system up via keyboard or mouse connected to the hub. It also has a basic KVM but the type-c port has a weird virtual USB drive that tries to auto-install control software for the monitor each time. The KVM / type-c port is also somewhat flaky with detection and switching so I ended up not even using it.

I still think if I were going to try for a higher resolution display to pair with the 5090 it would probably be the 38 inch 3840x1600 ultrawide, 38WR85QC-W. I do not really want 4k, high DPI or OLED so it seems like a good option.

On 6/13/2025 at 12:45 AM, electrosoft said:

So I've been putting my Macbook Pro 16 M4 Max (Full fat 16 core CPU, 40 core GPU) through the ringer tonight with World of Warcraft 4k Ultra.

 

It's......playable. In my benchmark spots it is about as powerful as a 9070xt with both having RT off since WoW doesn't support RT in MacOS 9070xt is clocking in around 140fps while the M4 is clocking in around 130fps.

 

Another case of theoretical vs actual once that CPU gets sauced....

 

Problem is in raids the M4 tanks to the 50s and 40s in many spots while the 9070xt consistently keeps it in the 80+ range so once you introduce that player data M4 Max starts to take a pounding.

 

That is now the M4, 5080 and 5090 not handling the lows as well as the 9070xt but I will say the M4 stays pretty smooth even at those low fps...

 

Don't let anyone ever tell you the Macbook fans don't have some punch to them....  😁

Interesting to hear about the M4 Max in WoW. What kind of TDP does it pull in those situations? I see that it is supposed to be up to 70W but unsure if that is sustained or just short bursts.

The 275HX + 5090M does pretty good with WoW at QHD with a few things tuned, SA and D2D at 30x and 6400 at CL38 tREFI 16k 1.25v gear2. The Premamod BIOS is still being finalized so once that is available I hope it helps a little too, along with being able to ditch XTU to set a few things. I am not sure if it can compete on efficiency to the M4 Max, but maybe the Ryzen AI Max 395 is a closer type of product to what Apple is offering, just with access to the much bigger Windows x86 game library.

4 hours ago, br2 said:

Well, 275Hx is a fraction of a second slower than 13980Hx in compiling a system. Moore's law ain't what it used to be...

What happened to Sac Bomber and his Titan thread?

To me its more about the feature set than performance for this generation. It is the first where I can have a professional looking chassis and build quality, iGPU video outputs, but still have max wattage CPU and GPU.

Often I find that one model offers great CPU performance, another offers great GPU performance, another has nice build quality and aesthetics, but rarely does any have it all, especially with tuning possible and acceptable fan noise.

Not sure about SAC Bomber, but maybe if he no longer has an account then the associated threads he started get removed as well.

On 6/2/2025 at 11:15 PM, electrosoft said:

I think I said it during my first round of ownership with the 9070xt when AMD fixed their drivers (understatement) and while the 9070xt was getting overall lower fps, the gameplay was just "smoother" than with the 5090 or 5080FE in WoW. Having run numerous Tier 11 delves solo, the gameplay, smoothness and responsiveness of the 9070xt is >=5090 even when it is getting ~160-170fps vs the 5090 clocking in at 238fps capped to monitor 240. This is with all the cards running 4k Ultra RT max.

I am surprised it is that good after having tried a 7800X3D + 7900GRE combo last generation. Lots of strange driver bugs paired with lots of strange bios bugs with fingers pointing to "its an AGESA issue, so it will be fixed when its fixed". I think after the second time my M.2 boot drive just randomly disappeared I gave up on it.

15 hours ago, Clamibot said:

Intel's server class Xeon CPUs have all P-cores and they perform great due to not being shackled by E-cores. No weird scheduling shenanigans.

Oh, the Xeons can also have scheduling issues. I have had trouble with CPPC, so processes on the 2495X do not automatically run on the highest clocked core or the favored cores. Also with hyperthreading enabled it can cause issues with the scheduler similar to what you would see on the 7950X and 9950X. In latency sensitive applications some cores are also more mesh hops away from a given DDR5 or PCIe5 block so depending on which slot you have a GPU in some cores may be better to use than further away favored cores.

It will get more interesting if we end up getting a Granite Rapids WS Xeon at some point, with Redwood Cove P-cores. Maybe a LCC or MCC monolithic variant could be tuned to give a 285K or 9950X a run for its money. It would be great if it could also not require registered memory (as was the case on the 3175X) and the latency penalties associated with it.

4 hours ago, the jg89 said:

Dumb question but how do you undervolt this laptop? I know you're supposed to use the control centre program for that but I want to ask first before touching anything ^_^'

On the X580 I purchased from Sager undervolting protection was enabled and the efi setup variables were write-locked.

7 hours ago, the jg89 said:

Hey @win32asmguy

 

I noticed that the ssd area has writing like pcie 4.0 pad = pink on the motherboard

I got a bunch of thermal pads to use for the ssds that look like they fit there, if I use them there

will it affect the motherboard?

 

also how are the temps on the ssd? just wondering

also I'm confused on which thermal pads to use since the metal plates on the bottom cover are different heights.

There are different height pads depending on the slot. Always check for contact pressure on the pad in case the z-height of your SSD is different than the OEM drive.

I did not really test drive temperatures in mine. It would not have been relevant data as I only use one drive which is not going to generate as much radiant heat as using four drives would.

9 hours ago, the jg89 said:

hey @win32asmguy is it possible to give me a full gpu spec of the rtx 5090m with info like number of teraflops? there's one in techpowerup but it's inaccurate.

 

also is the cooling worse or better than the p775 tm1g?

Here is GPU-Z from the Hydroc G2:

I am guessing the X580 cooling is on par with the P775TM1-G as they are both designed for around 250W combined loads IIRC.

2 hours ago, Maro97 said:

That’s absolutely true, and the P870TM has indeed been tested with dual RTX 3080 in SLI, and the results were higher than a single RTX 4090 mobile (175W). However, it’s absolutely impossible to solder and install an RTX 4090 GPU chipset onto an RTX 3090 MXM board, as this has already been tested and the chip does not work on that board. This is because the circuit designs of the 3080 and 4090 are different. The 30 series graphics cards operate at 1.8V, whereas the 4090 operates at 1.2V.

Well, the new Uniwill IDY now has a modular, full wattage 5070ti - 5090 mobile. Probably the first I have seen since the X170 as a full wattage modular part. No guarantees of upgrades but I am sure someone with a 5070ti + Intel could switch to 5090 if desired.

Its kind of funny that Uniwill is now producing more modular products than Clevo. I am not interested in their watercooling addons but I do appreciate everything else they are doing engineering-wise.

I preordered one of these back in late February and it was delivered last week. Specs / options:

• Intel Arrow Lake 275HX with CPU tuning
• RTX 5090 Mobile 175W / 5080 Mobile
• 2x16GB Kingston Fury 6400 CL38 XMP kit / CSODIMM also supported with memory tuning
• 1x Gen5 M.2 + 1x Gen4 M.2 SSD
• 16 inch miniLED 300hz QHD+ panel with local dimming switch / 300hz IPS

Initial impressions:

This model has very good build quality. It is much more solid feeling than the Clevo X580 and even some mobile workstations. The fan noise does not have any high pitched whine. It has fully customizable RGB lighting including the ability to override cold boot settings. The shipping bios has limited tuning but Premamod will be available when ready. Local dimming on the miniLED makes me like this type of panel. Unfortunately it is not the boot default but atleast it can be controlled via software.

I have tried many different memory kits so far in it. The best performing has been the Kingston Fury 2x16GB 6400 CL38 XMP kit however it has to use a custom profile with 1.25v due to shipping bios limitations. That results in ~98ns latency in Gear 2.

I will try to post a full review soon.

2 hours ago, electrosoft said:

As for pricing, yeah they've come down a bit. On launch, they had a "special" price of $3999.99 for the Raider 285/5090 then it went back up to its "regular" price of $4899 but was then almost immediately discounted to $4499 and now it's at a regular price of $4099. 6400 speed ram and 2tb SSD isn't terrible but still....

 

Even the normal Titan dropped below $5k almost at launch.

 

9950HX3D models are all I would be interested in on the top end atm for gaming for 5090s though as the overall uplift versus the previous generation is mediocre.

It sounds like there may be a temporary tariff pause so over the summer pricing may be less volatile. The addon RAM and SSD has always inflated their prices. All of the good deals last year were models that shipped with 32GB and 1TB. Their QHD+ also seems to be much cheaper than the miniLED panel too.

The 275HX is actually pretty good. Runs great with WoW and any other games, much cooler temperatures overall than 14900HX. Best of all I can finally get something with ability to tune the CPU, control the fans, max GPU TDP, and with an iGPU TB4 port just like the Precision series. Memory latency is higher but luckily it can atleast be tuned to get closer to what I have heard with the 285K.

I have heard rumors that 9945HX3D has seen some AGESA bug fixes and does have higher TDP than 7945HX3D. Its a shame MSI has decided to only pair the new chip with UHD+ panels at the moment. Maybe Micro Center has enough pull with them to get a 9945HX3D config with QHD+ at a good price as they seem to have done that with the 285HX variant this year.

6 hours ago, electrosoft said:

MSI 18 9950X3D/5090 Raider getting trashed for several reasons (display, price, trackpad, other) but remember, this is LTT:

Not a bad review. I never realized the trackpad being centered like that with the Raider 18. I guess I did not use it enough on the go without a mouse.

For price the Micro Center deals on the Intel model are better, $3000 for the 5080 and $4100 for the 5090. I cannot say they are enticing though as the included memory and storage would just be chucked and replaced with better performing options from known good brands instead of the lottery system of OEM components.

MiniLED panels should always have a switch to disable local dimming. Having now used the panel on the Hydroc G2 it is finally an experience that can be the same as you would get on the IPS variant.

2 hours ago, tps3443 said:

I don’t understand why laptop manufacturers haven’t done this years ago. We can easily put desktop power in a laptop.

There was the Asus laptop a while ago with the Quadro equivalent of a 2080Ti - complete with 24GB of memory on a 384-bit bus. It had a 200W power limit but did show that a TU102 chip could fit and function in a laptop.

Personally I think we need properly sized DTR 5090m laptops at 300W+ before bigger more expensive silicon. That is not happening soon as all the OEMs have declared anything thick cannot possible sell well. Nvidia does not help with this either as they clearly want to keep their entire mobile product line in a close range of trickled performance.

2 hours ago, electrosoft said:

What z690 board and memory is it? I would suspect a decently tuned 12900ks system (5.5 all core, turn off e-cores if needed to achieve) and some halfway tuned DDR4 or DDR5 will outperform your HEDT. Even pure stock it might too.

It's a MSI pro z690-a wifi with a 2x16gb 6400 cl32 kit. The 12900ks has also been delidded and has the rockitcool copper ihs.

I know that the other sapphire rapids users hit a wall with their chips too. Even the refresh chips are only reaching 5.2 on the starred cores, maybe 5.3 with hyper threading disabled. I guess those cores do have 2mb l2 just like raptor cove. I think I have mentioned before that cppc seems to be broken on the w790-sage so process lasso to keep those threads on the higher clocked cores is very helpful. I wonder if using the third and fourth gen5x16 slots for my GPU and SSD makes it need a couple extra mesh hops from the preferred cores compared to the top two Gen5 slots. The preferred cores are definitely the best ones though as they need under 100mv less at the same clock compared to the non preferred cores.

On 4/30/2025 at 1:41 PM, electrosoft said:

Ran some raids in my fixed D2D OC profile with GPU Tweak III and just smooth.....even when fps dipped into the 70s still smooth.....The problem with the WoW engine will always be when all that player data hits in certain moments, your 5090 will perform like a 4070 Super or 9070xt. Same with the 5080FE. There's just nothing you can do about it. The engine CPU physics need to be overhauled badly.

I am tempted to try and move my 5090 into my Intel 12900ks + z690 system this weekend and see if it does better with wow than the HEDT setup. I could even potentially try a 14900k or ks if it's supported via a bios update. That 12900ks seemed like it was pretty leaky in the raptor x15 but it might do perfectly fine even with good air cooling.

1 hour ago, 1610ftw said:

Do you have a link where we can see the inside of the X560? 3 drives is above average for sure and it is still puzzling that Clevo does not go for a vapor chamber in their top model.

I dont have a picture of one but from the exterior it looks very much like the PE60.

It seems like the X580 does OK with a heatpipe system. Would a vapor chamber have helped slightly? Maybe but only Clevo engineering would know at this point.

On 4/28/2025 at 3:57 PM, 1610ftw said:

Surprise surprise: Medion announced its ERAZER Beast 18 X1 and I thought it was another X580 vendor but instead it looks like a TongFang!

I think that one is not a Tongfang, instead a different company as it was called "Thunderobot Zero 18" at CES. Supposedly same vendor Eluktronics used on a 16 inch model a few years ago which ended up having worse build quality.

In other news, the X560 is starting to show up. It looks like it caps out at a 155W 5090m, and has three SSD slots along with support for up to 128GB RAM. It still has a vapor chamber just like the PE60 which is nice.

1 hour ago, SACbomber said:

Rick from the MSi board here, hope you don't mind me intruding...

 

Have you got any benchmarks of your X580 @win32asmguy? CineBench 2024, 3DMark, the usual. Really want to compare with my TItan. Expecting you to have a 10-15% graphics performance advantage over me while maybe slightly behind on CPU/RAM.

I need to rerun some benchmarks. After running some further testing on the Kingston Fury memory I determined it was not stable at 5600 CL40 in the X580 in combined loads. The stock Crucial kit was not as well at 5600 CL46. I now have tested Hynix OEM 2x24GB CSODIMM modules at 5600 CL46 which is stable. This change will effect Timespy CPU test but should not effect Cinebench R23. I think traditionally games usually are effected by higher memory latencies with 1% lows.