GuitarG

16 hours ago, el_delincuente1 said:

Well, I figured with the help that low gpu clocks were caused by lack of battery power. Probably cuz MSI GT72 has that "hybrid power" feature and even though there is plenty of power from AC adapter, the card doesn't understand it and thinks, that it powers from the battery, causing it to drop clocks. When you have both battery and AC adapter, GPU clocks as it should. But I have another problem: under 3D load my laptop crashes cuz of the videocard. I'll run MATS someday and will update you on the situation

Every laptop will have different behaviour, even from same manufacturer. Depends on EC and power circuit it seems, in mine both cpu and gpu may throttle on battery only, on ac only it works on 100% power. MXM cards are powered straight from charger with 20V, EC controls numbers and how to behave for GPU power circuit controler. Only RTX versions that have additional power connector may behave differently.
Also there are power spikes, battery will provide additional amps so charger won't shutdown. Like power surge. OEMs "abuse" so they can save $$ on overall laptop build.

About 3D loads, you mean BSoD or just crash and freeze ? Can you turn on and off CAPS Lock or Num lock on keyboard when it crashes ?

54 minutes ago, el_delincuente1 said:

Hi! Thanks for your answer! My MSI laptop doesn't have Optimus, I change igpu and dgpu by pressing a physical button on my topcase. Did you always have to use external monitor or it became a necessity onpy after you tweaked your vbios? To what maximum TDP did you raise it? Can you also please tell me, for which voltage do I need an external programmer? Is it necesserily 1.8V? I tried new nvflashes, but it didn't work for me(

Yes, you need low voltage converter if you use CH341. I used both xgecu t48 and ch341 with converter, both works with low voltage chips. Higher voltage may or will fry bios chip.
Btw. What MSI model are you using?
I had to use external because vBIOS programs what connections GPU uses - internal (EDP, LVDS directly or using muxxer or other) and external (HDMI, VGA, DVI, DP and how many of them).  Original 150W TDP limit I decreased to 100W so I could test that vBIOS without overheating/frying card.
And now I remember better, that vBIOS didn't worked for me, I could only post and then I had some weird GPU glitch because it had no compability with my HP. Same was with Lenovo's bios. It may work for you, but remember to not use it with too much power. I recommend reading that topic:

https://www.bilibili.com/read/cv10852330
 

On 2/25/2024 at 2:34 PM, el_delincuente1 said:

Hi. I have MSI GT72 2QE laptop. It came with 980M. I bought Quadro P5200 on aliexpress, revision D. After shaking image, I managed to install drivers on it and now the image is ok. However, GPU clocks are very low, around 200 MHz under load, while in idle they are about 1316 MHz. Gpu-Z shows, thah the card is hitting power limit under load. I use my laptop plugged to the AC, so there is definitely enough power. Can somebody please help me? Also I wonder, in order to flash MSI bios onto this card, do I have to do it via hardware, not nvflash?

 

Be careful flashing MSI vbios on that card, that is HP version and it is only rated for 110W max TDP, Msi vBIOS is from different version, rated for 150W (see attachment). You may try to use mobile pascal TDP tweaker, change wattage in vbios and flash it using external programmer. I may had even already uploaded such modded vbios to techpowerup vbios base, in mine HP it worked only with external output, though. It may work correctly for you (your MSI may use muxxer / optimus - iGPU used for internal LCD image, GPU for 3D tasks and external monitors)
You can try newest nvflash, they had made some breakthroughs, when I used it few days ago it worked like charm. Not sure if it can bypass checksum check known as Falcon security.
Can you show how card PCB looks under ? Fortunately you bought most patched D version : )
Cheers!

On 2/21/2024 at 6:31 AM, nicholas1020 said:

Hello everyone its been a little bit since my last update I have some benchmark results to post(: After extensive testing in pursuit of finding a problem and a workable solution I have followed ssj92 tutorial on driver installation, I can confirm my drivers do in fact work and are validated. I ran two games prior to running the time spy and fire strike benchmark. I ran MSI Afterburner to view gpu frames, power draw, vram usage and temps in re4 remake and the Dead Space remake. In each instance MSI Afterburner displays a prompt LIM Power, Voltage, and Temperature similar to what is display on a screen shot I took off of the firestrike benchmark. I though maybe the major downclocks I'm receiving could be attributed to a thermal throttle but I tried to eliminate this as possibility by ramping all my fans on max as well as placing my laptop onto of a fan blowing cold air on max, lol a lot I know but I had to know for sure. These benchmark results have been taking with these cooling conditions implemented to see what scores I may land in order to figure out if I have a bottleneck somewhere preventing me from hitting that 60fps in game or if its being caused by thermal throttling or even a lack of power somewhere. I am using a 330 watt power supply from dell, thank you everyone for taking the time and the effort out to help me in advance! If everything point to a lack of power I'm can certainly try what ssj92 and Falinov had suggested on implementing a resistor mod for an increase in power delivery if necessary and ill order the resistor and test it with the rtx 5000 if everything point to a power issue(: Additionally as its not listing in the benchmark I am running a standard hdd, no ssd at the moment and 16 gb ram sticks unmodified! Edit: I just ran re4 remake and lowered the resolution down to the lowest resolution and lowest graphical setting and I'm still not landing a solid 60 fps, solid 30 but not 60fps. Perhaps this could be point to a cpu bottleneck? I'm gonna try a cpu overclock and see if that makes any difference in fps!(:

Hello ! I've been researching on subject and it seems my card works okay. Im using third gen i7 55W with rtx 5000 with 280W power supply, what displays in GPU-Z depends on nvidia control panel settings for power. When stressing on maximum performance or optimal/adaptive it clocks up to 1850mhz on core, 1500mhz memory. In PerfCap changes from Idle to PWR or Voltage or both  - I guess that is normal ? So it won't extend 80W supply limit by vbios ?
MXM 3.0 slot should be able to delive at least 100W of power, there are very wide copper traces on card - it's directly from power supply to GPU.

Maybe experimenting with vbios or nvclean settings should help ? Before I made mine work, I had code 43 error and constant high wattage draw on GPU - it overheated until I've correctly installed driver.
CPU is 100% not problem here, I would look into GPU directly and board BIOS/ KBC controller. Those are your culprits

EDIT: When using constant performance in nvidia control panel GPU stays on 600 mhz core, 700 mhz ram, PerfCap is "IDLE", core draws from 25W to -50W max

On 2/22/2024 at 2:25 AM, RRPD4130 said:

Another kindred hackmodder refugee from NBR (RIP)! I am thrilled to have stumbled over this magnificent heir to NBR, and my first post must be to you and your outstanding project, which received my full attention. Simply excellent, sir. I salute you and will eagerly follow your progress.

 

Hello! And thank you for kind words!

Today I made rough beta version, welded together heatsink so I could at least do little benchmarking. It is obvious GPU heatsink is not good enough, rest of laptop is working okay. Zbook G6 plate is much worse than 8770w, less copper, overall thermal mass.

There is a much more performance to get, I also need to see why RAM clock is at half of full speed (6000mhz).

Now I will try to make CAD file for heatsink so I can order customized plate for GPU and CPU, use fresh heatpipes and apply Honeywell PTM and go back to testing.

Biggest problem is can't afford to find spare mxm card so I can make perfect heatsink. I have spare 8570w modified just for making perfectly working heatsink, but m3000m core and X clamp are offset, unfortunately : (

Settings in NVClean and GPU Z screen (had to add another post because of MB limit for post)

IT 'S ALIVE

But error 43 😞 VBios Flash may be needed. Or use different settings in nvflash

Too tired to write or think more, see pics

Edit:

Well, everything works as intended now, I have flashed different vbios and used different files and method in NVClean. With correct drivers everything shows correctly in GPU Z. No Optimus needed, 8570w don't have IntelHD. For now there are few steps to be done:

1. Make 3D model of heatsink, order it in full copper

2. Glue GPU board support for two screws

3. Solder very flat connectors for touchpad and fingerprint reader

4. And most important, relax, sit on chair together with my cat and.. just use laptop and play 😄

Mission accomplished.

After I saw success on screen, I was relieved I won't have to use newer notebooks for little longer. Too much budget cuts (except final price), no attention to details and shorter lifespan, even in workstation teritory ..

I would love to have chance making computer from ground up, like people from Framework.

In meantime, few little problems need to be solved, like making ax210 work with BT / or making better antenna for original Broadcom; installing nvme drive in EC Expansion slot with adapter; fitting external amplifer in place of internal one (sound from internal DAC is very good, of course USB DAC is better, but most people wont hear difference); change second fan for more silent one (from zbook 17g2).

Checked for clamp align, core align, PCB dimensions. Will have to check if it will work in 8570W then we move onto designing most efficient cooling


PS. Already tested Zbook 17 G6, even after repasting it's not great.. hitting very quickly performance and cooling rooftop.

EDIT: Bootup test both laptops:

17 hours ago, Zeht said:

Amazing post! I saw that you commented on my post about modding the Zbook 15 to fit a quadro p3000, did you discarded the idea of using the Zbook 15 motherboard?

 

From my experience the main issue with the zbook is the heatsink, the cpu simply gets too hot to handle these big gpus. I'm also not too convinced on undervolting haswell chips, my 4810mq barely does -50mv on the core and -40mv on cache, anything more than that it will randomly crash. Under a gaming load it can do 35w sustained, which is decent but not enough to fully push the p3000.

Hi! And thank you for your information! I have abaddoned that idea, too many cons.

I think issue with UV is silicon lottery. Best chip I ever seen was my P5200 - between 0,1 and 0,2 ohms on core. Though its damaged..  works perfectly.

Maybe highest quality chip from waffer may offer better UV value - equivalent to 3940XM for 4th gen.

3740qm took more wH from battery than XM. That's my theory, im not proffesional by any case so I may ne mistaken 😄

And.. the news !

New GPU in testing phase, 8570w is also in preps for transplantation. Behold..! In next few days operation begins !

Well, RTX is on it's way 😄

Tracking says I have to wait until friday... wish me luck !

2 hours ago, PingwinVonJelen said:

 As far as i know nvidia 9xx should work with lvds, i have here quadro m5000m (gtx980m equivalent) and it works well

True, GTX980 worked with both LVDS (much better compability) and DC (worse compability).
With DC screen it worked only in pure UEFI, no fastboot, up to some version of drivers only - 371? or 391 ? I don't remember.
So 965m should work too, same family or GPUs.

Btw,RTX 4000 showed up on auction sites, even some 3000 "normal 3.0b mxm" version... But I have to be a little more patient, 5000 is much more efficient and better designed (E.g core size and more bios versions). I think new *adventure* should begin in 1-2 months 😄 In next week I'll try to retrofit hifi creative soundcard to bypass internal DAC and AMP. I wonder if internal speakers will work better.

In meantime I restored old IBM (shoving SSD in 28 year old laptop or trying to make retro lap dock for Dex - can't beat that) with cool lifting keyboard mechanism - look up ibm 760 how it opens. That kind of mechanism makes whole heatsink work up to 50% more efficient (E.g. a lot more cold air for fan) - tested by 1h long experiments with palmrest on/off, one fan / two fans, different thermal material etc. I will see if it would be possible to adapt 8570w to such things
 

49 minutes ago, gabrieloj said:

Hi guys, thank you all for the replies. The tech has confirmed one of the mosfets is dead, as you said. I just bought more of them, and will add extras on the empty "slots". By adding extra mosfets, do I need to do any adaptations, such as vBIOS?

Nope, no need to do any more work, just plug it in

10 hours ago, gabrieloj said:

Hi, thanks for your reply!

 

As I mentioned, I don't have much expertise, however after a close look at the card, I didn't identify any abnormalities. Here are 2 pictures.

 

Picture 2:

Hello ! I know what would be your problem ! If your charger light dissapears as fast as putting it into DC In - you have short right there!
Don't worry, it is easy one. You have to check with multimeter those three mosfets, turn on continuity test

one probe at one end of mosfet and second probe at other end of same mosfet. You will hear sound meaning very low resistance - for those elements it means "we are dead".
What to do ? Simple ! Just buy three same mosfet, new ones and replace them with hot air station.
Even better would be buying 6 of them, inserting in non populated areas near existing ones. You will split heat and work they have to do, so they won't get damaged ever. Probably.
I don't remember mosfet's model, you will have to use magnifier to read it

My first mod was repaired gtx980 that shorted in someone's Clevo or Alienware ^_^ bought for like 10$. Mosfets were pricier, 15$ with shipping.

I could help you myself, but I'm located in Poland.

Cheers ! 🙂

On 12/15/2023 at 10:48 PM, Kitje said:

I could see this in a 7520 and 7530, but not the M4800 because of the bottlenecking 4th gen processors could have.

Biggest bottleneck is chipset, Turing architecture last one for PCI Express 3.0, I'm not sure if 4.0 is backward compatible. Dell from 7x20 gen have NGFF format only (Pascal Px200 onwards). Also when you dissasembly NGFF connector, you have to buy new one for 100-200$.

They really don't want anyone to make upgrades themselves.
EDIT: I mean, they don't want to make upgrades ourselves*

On 12/10/2023 at 8:53 PM, triturbo said:

 

There are 3 types of wick inside the pipes - grooved, meshed and sintered. The third one works best (works upside-down as well) and you can find such on the market, but you have to go through a lot of listings to find them.

 

 

Have you found suitable ones? Long time ago the only available were 50x50x3mm - not really suitable as they are pretty thick and it will be difficult to mount them as there were no screw holes.

 

 

I thought that it's more like 100W and that depends on the vBIOS and like the Pxxxx series they lack vBIOS chip. Have you sourced the vBIOS and the chip?

Turing gen cards all have vBIOS chip on board already, no need to program and solder. And because of that decision in designing, my laptop will properly drive fan without third party app - because all vbios will be on card only, unlike previous generation.
I had found about 13 vBIOS for 5000 version on techpowerup

https://www.techpowerup.com/vgabios/?architecture=Uploads&manufacturer=&model=Quadro+RTX+5000&interface=&memType=&memSize=&since=

Boards from HP zbook, judging by clock boosts, is between 80-85w max.
Thanks, I will try to check out listings. From autopsy, in zbooks and elitebook from 2012-13 era they used meshed heatpipes.

After spending few night contemplating about modification I know that core heatsink mount (X shape) will be without any work compatible, but there is much bigger problem. Card is wider near connector - meaning I have to change how touchpad and fingerprint sensor connects to board. Easiest would be to connect with wires, but I want it to be more elegant and disconnectable. First idea in mind is to bend them or use flat connector instead.
Still better though than 8770w situation - in bigger brother there is keyboard connector just next to MXM board...

On 12/5/2023 at 3:47 PM, triturbo said:

You can find various length and diameter heatpipes on AliExpress. Then you’ll need pipe bending tool and then you’ll need to flatten them with a big metal pipe or something like that. Then there’s a low temperature solder paste to solder the whole thing. Good luck!

Sometime ago thought about using those heatpipes, but they're inferior to HP original ones, in hp they're meshed inside, meaning better performance.
Those I had found in Ali were just copper filled unfortunately. They do work, ofc.
I have so much heatsink parts I can make three different versions and compare them to find best solution practicaly. Can use thermal cam. My observations with heatsink I have in use is that heatpipes now used are enough, bottleneck lays within material of heatsink - some kind of aluminium alloy, 3 times worse themal cap than pure copper.
Best of best options is to use vapor chamber for gpu and cpu piece - that piece I have heats up unevenly. Heatpipes are coldest compared to rest, so they work efficiently, exhaust is properly cooled, so it's also in perfect state now.
I need to order about 5mm thick copper plate and cnc route for heatpipes and screw. I think same idea were in Clevo or alienware, where one could buy fully copper heatsink instead of aluminium (original).

RTX 5000 from zbook g6 will have between 70-80W of power, so it's 30-40W less than P5200 ^_^ So it may be overkill, but I would love to have both CPU and GPU 60C degrees in maximum usage scenario. Full copper may also render additional fan useless, meaning less dB. Better codecs, more battery life. With P5200 I had almost no use on both processors when watched 4k video on YT, thanks to VP9 codecs.

I do not worry for making it boot and work since I know that card works in M6700 and 6800, iMac 2nd gen CPU from 2011 and others. There is chance it won't work, maybe 1% I think.. nobody tried it with HP, excluding zbook g2 and g3 - but that's different build architecture.

Have you seen this man solving ACPI trouble for P5200 ? That is a nice one there

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/imac-2011-maxwell-and-pascal-gpu-upgrade.2300989/page-26?post=32731488#post-32731488

On 11/18/2023 at 4:42 PM, Jerryzago said:

Having looked to the problem and going back and forth, I decided to go for a new GPU. I ordered and got a PNY MXM RTX 3000. Paying 200 euros in total for it.

 

It arrived and I used my AMD 100Watt heatsink. Worked like a charm, exept two mosfets next to the core that also needed cooling. I placed an extra alouminum heatsink with thermal pads and held it doww with the casing. I will try to take a photo of it. 

 

I had also installed windoww 11, hoping a fresh OS install might solve the issue, but not. So with windows 11, and drivers from NVinstall, I went ahead to test the GPU.

 

SAME PROBLEM. Error with the dxgmms1.sys. Read the minidump and searched for solutions. Turns out the HP GPU might be OK.

 

Ruled out that maybe a windows update might be the problem. No luck there.

 

I tested my 980m without issues, but in PEG mode. I am using both RTX in SG mode. A post from reddit said to disable the iGPU. I was afraid because disabling the iGPU might result in a black screen and possibly another OS fressh install.

 

Next was a BIOS change. Both BIOS from Techpowerup bricked the GPU. Reverting back to original BIOS, everything works great in windows, except gaming or benchmarking.

 

So I pulled the trigger and disabled the iGPU from the system devices. I didn't get a black screen, nor a crash. I lost brightness control, but nvidia panel took that role.

But 3D performance was terrible. Though everything run fine, I literally got half the performace, depsite everything run at full speed. But it was something, I was near the solution.

 

I DDU everything, and grabbed the drivers for the HD 4000 from Dells website. I also intalled the latest 547.17 drivers.

 

Again the same error. Still dxgmms1.sys whenever I fired up a proper 3D appication. 

 

After hours of browsing, I came across another post, saying that on a september of 2023, both windows 11 and 10, made an system upgrade, adding (maybe) some GPU settings. I found that page and changed the setting a bit. After a system reboot, everything was working as it should!!! I could not belive that a system setting, got me through all this trouble and wasted money and time. Now I have in my inventory two 980m, an HP RTX 3000 with a modded heatink and a bracket and an PNY/AETINA RTX 3000 currently in my system. 

 

Thank God everything works.

 

Is it "Hardware GPU Scheduling" ?
I heard it is problematic

On 12/3/2023 at 8:13 PM, PingwinVonJelen said:

Hi, i bought recently HP 8570W. I want to change graphics card so i found cheap nvidia P106M (GTX1060) which seems good option for my i7 3740qm, and for my needs. My laptop don't have dream color display. What i need to know? Will this work?  In terms of cooling if laptop would overheat from this additional 25W TDP i think removing dvd from the bay and adapting some heatpipe+radiator+fan for gpu and it will be fine .   Also i wanna ask, Mashcar, where are you from?

You will need to have EDP display like DC screen for Pascal generation. As for heatsink, be sure to cover those FETs and VRAMs. They may get some damage if not cooled with heatsink. GPU core can atleast throttle itself in power to try cooling down. VRM can't.
And as for second question, I'm from Poland.

 

10 hours ago, frelu said:

 

@Mashcar you also could dremel out the plastic fragment between DVD bay and HDD bay for extra space and even place a fan with two air output [like big brother 8770w. It has air output from left and behind]. But you could use only mSATA for storage.

 

On 12/3/2023 at 12:03 PM, triturbo said:

I think that combined CPU and GPU pipes would do better ONLY if it’s taken into account the total power consumption and then some. Shared/combined heatsinks get bad reputation because most of the times they are calculated for less than that. 
In your case you can distribute the heat from the CPU to the optical bay where you can put a big fan and a big radiator. Then again if you don’t plan on overclocking you might split them and the CPU could use the stock CPU and GPU radiators, while the GPU could take advantage of the entire optical bay. That’s my take on the cooling. 

Yeah! I totally forgot third option. Biggest issue is to find good quality heatpipes - unable to manufacture them myself. Shape is critical, OEM make them individually.

I have to draw them on paper to write pros and cons for each options.

For now I have to wait for someone to buy my "old' quadro to order rtx. Already on auction site 😄

EDIT: Oh, and most important thing - I'm not 100% sure if card will work with this system. Some users reported card working with third gen intel chipsets alienware laptops, but they have integrated GPU architecture. My 8570w works purely with dedicated GPU.
I know that RTX works for 100% with zbook 17 g3, I had re-read some forums. There were some questions about T1000 and 8570w, but no one answered or delivered message.
At least it's PCI Express 3.0 x16, so in theory..

*In professor from Futurama voice* Good news everyone!

Sometimes to get futher you need to take step back - and I am taking one giant step back in this moment... I went back to Quadro K1000M and I will sell my Quadro P5200..
Why? Because I need some money to make upgrade up to Quadro RTX 5000 😄 Yes, in few weeks I am going to buy that card. And mod the hell out of cooling.
I will buy piece of copper, use CNC and make final version of cooling. Additionally I will need 8740W CPU heatpipes and biggest question is - what's better, to combine CPU and GPU heatpipes or make it separate.
Searching for some calculations or math formulas to answer it mathematicaly, my experience suggest separate thermal mass will behave better. Will see. And as always I will share my adventure to you all!

I hope you will get as much dopamine kick as I do right now😄

PS. I used photo from other users of this forum. Not so much comparison media or even photos of said mxm boards.

16 minutes ago, myroslav said:

 

Hi again!
Glad to see that you published the video on YouTube and keep working on this project🙏
May I ask your opinion? There is an RTX 3000 MXM going on sale for cheap, and its TDP is around 80w (which is much lower than 1070/p5200 that I was wishing to get), which might suit my 8560w, hopefully, after installing the DC screen and the bigger heatsink from 8670w/8770W, of course)
Do you think it's a good idea to try and purchase it? Or just forget about all of it and get a 980m/m5000m(which is the maximum, as far as I know, that can output to the default non DC screen)
Thanks!

If it is your first upgrade, I recommend getting RTX 3000. Why ? It's newest, it can work with RTX only tech like DLSS, it's still updated for few next years, it will use much less energy for same job than older cards. By upgrading from GTX980 to P5200 I had at least 1hour more on battery. Remember though, you will have to make heavy modification to heatsink. I think it is a bit offset from standard.
Also if it will work with sandy bridge gen, be sure to check it. 980 or m5000m should work for sure. Try to look for info in NBR archive,  ibmnb forum or hpfocus forum. Maybe techinferno, there should be info about it

There is third option, that is Zbook 15 G2. They're getting cheaper and you would not have to look for DC screen.
Good luck and I will look out for it : )

Here is Zbook palmrest

Cable is totally different in means of lenght and shape from 8570w

All we need to do is take out reader board from Zbook, solder flex cable from 8570w and it just works 😄
You need to be careful when desoldering flex, because of that glue here

After soldering check with multimeter if there arent shorts between pins and you're good to go.

About my laptop, my original keyboard died week ago because it had damaged from too high humidity before, traces were gradually corroding and few keys stoped working. I had to remake previous riveting job - at least I have photos this time 🙂

I had also spotted Quadro RTX 3000 mxm on selling platform, but I think it's too weak compared to 5000, which I would want to retrofit. Soo, we wait more

Nice work ! Can I ask if you could PM me zbook schematics ? I have spare 17 inch DC screen from zbook 17 with cables, but Im not sure whats damaged (I didn't had time to repair it, I think backlight may not be working).
How are temperatures ? If you could share it would be awesome 🙂 I'm not sure if I want to try separating CPU and GPU heatpipes or stay with connected design.
How about muxxer ? Every mode works ?

You could try make 3d model of that GPU heatsink and order CNC for copper plate, second heatsink would work as intended then. I plan it myself. For now I could recommend making hole for fan to blow air in GPU direction. It can help with temps.

Anyway, nice job man !

EDIT: I almost forgot... have you though about making thunderbolt to nvme drive mod ? There are such mods already made in macbooks pro.

EDIT2: I recommend undervolting with Intel XTU and MSI Afterburner 

8 hours ago, Will said:

Hey bro, could you please tell me how you retrofitted the ZBook G2 fingerprint reader into the 8570w?

I will try to send photos later, basically you need both original 8570w fingerprint reader and zbook. You have to desolder flex cable from both and solder original flex cable to zbook reader. There is a little glue holding said flex, but it comes off easily with little heat. Pinout is same for both readers, mind flex orientation.
After soldering I recommend using a little glue pistol to secure connections. Lastly, download fingerprint drivers from zbook G2 page and voila, Windows Hello works perfectly 😄