*Official Benchmark Thread* - Post it here or it didn't happen :D

[Mr. Fox]

10 hours ago, Papusan said:

Isn't this the box you got bro @Mr. Fox?

TEST29

New reference for flexible high-end cases?

be quiet! Dark Base Pro 901

 

Yes, I am waiting for it to be shipped from Germany.

  

9 hours ago, tps3443 said:

There has to be something at play here going on. Pretty sure a Z690 Dark is not going to outpace the Z790 Apex. I would try some different ram or something. Maybe some different bios or FW off of Bianbao.net
 

Think about that for a moment. These are really great overclocking motherboards.
 

Now I will say, when I first got my Z790 Apex I couldn’t get my Team Group 7200’s to run like my Unify-X ran them, I was stuck at 7800 range. Not sure if this was bios, growing pains, or just swapping out ram that fixed it. But, I’m pretty sure I can get DDR5 8700 out of my ram if I really really tried. 

It didn't say it is no good. Only that it is inferior to the Dark. Because it is. The hardware and firmware is better on the Z690 Dark. The engineering and build quality of the Dark is better. It's overall a better product by every measurement. It is like comparing a high-end European sports car to a Japanese tuner car, LOL. Lots of little things were noticed on day one besides the build quality being inferior. For example, the PCH has a crappy "heat sink" on it that looks fancy, but sucks in terms of function. The PCH runs about 15°C hotter on the Apex because Asus cuts corners on their products without cutting corners on pricing.

 

Why wouldn't it outpace it? There is a reason people like Vince and Luumi were involved in the development of it and use it. There's nothing "gamer" about it in form or functioo. PCB is thicker, more gold traces, etc. It's built by a company that cares about its own reputation, the products its name goes on and the people that buy them. Asus is the opposite of that as a company. It is obvious by their behavior and the utter garbage software they produce to support their product, and their horrible warranty service.

 

This memory sample is superior to anything I have purchased so far. It runs like a Swiss watch on the Dark. In the Apex it can't run 8200 stable and unless I add more voltage and making the timings a whole lot sloppier it can barely handle 8000. The same memory that runs rock solid stable at 8200 CL35-48-48-48-42 with tRFC 560 using 1.435V won't even boot in the Apex unless I loosen the tRAS to like 65, take tRFC over 600 and apply like 1.550V. The fact that it can boot 8200 with more voltage and looser timings makes it a good product, but it doesn't overclock the CPU or memory as well as the Dark does. My 13900KS also needs more voltage for the same core clocks when it is installed in the Apex. Not a lot, but it still needs more. The memory is more difficult to train on the Apex as well. Training was super easy and quick with the Dark.

 

I don't regret buying it. I do regret that the stinking thing is severely overpriced, but I regret that about the 3090 Kingpin and the 4090 Suprim as well. The Z790 Apex is a good product overall. It's probably going to go into the Dark Base Pro just because the Z690 Dark has a bit of an edge over it in terms of overclocking prowess. That is expected, so I am not disappointed or surprised by it.

 

I can pass Cinebench R23 with this 13900KS at 58P, 47E, 50C, 8200M with VCore at 1.295V. It crashes in Cinebench R23 with those clocks and 1.295V. This memory runs 24/7 stable in the Dark at 8200 35/48/48/48/42, tFAW 16, tRFC 560, tCKE 4 with 1.450V, TX under 1.300V. It won't boot with those settings in the Apex and 8000, looser timings and more voltage, I get this... with the same memory modules, running them on water and only 30°C. I paid $399 for the Z690 Dark. I paid $699 for the Apex. Paid close to $300 more for a Strix 4090 than the 4090 Suprim and the Strix was utter garbage. We both know how the Z690 Apex turned out and it was very bad. There is a common denominator here. Fancier and more expensive doesn't make it better.

 

 

EVGA Elite X1 works on the Z490 Dark and Z690 Dark. It is not UWP Micro$lop Store feces. CPU, memory and RGB functionality just work. Armory Crate, AI Suite, Turbo V do not function correctly, and haven't since Z490 days. If you can actually get Armory Crate to run at all, it installs DOZENS of services, more than 1,000 registry keys and a truckload of garbage for components and peripherals that are not even installed. ASUS doesn't let you downgrade firmware anymore and they force you to update the ME firmware. EVGA lets you use whatever you want to use and give you the option to disable the ME firmware. They don't require you to upgrade the ME or use it at all.

 

I ordered a 48GB kit of G.SKILL 8000 from NewEgg. Will see how that goes with the Apex. Honestly, I like it a whole lot better than I thought I would. So, that says something. I was kind of half way expecting that I would RMA it within the 30 day window.  If the G.SKILL 8000 doesn't work well, maybe you can export your BIOS settings as a CMO file and send it to me by email or give me a link to download it to test and see if the results mirror yours.

 

[Reciever]

3 hours ago, Etern4l said:

 

Sure, there is no reason to give notice unless it's contractually or legally required, other than perhaps to avoid burning bridges if the relationship had been very good. Where no employment-at-will applies, however, you may be shown the door (for security reasons, as an example), but have to get paid throughout your contractual (and some minimum statutory notice period, such as 2-4 weeks) anyway. Just a bit of protection to even out the quite unbalanced relationship between corporations and people. Apparently the point is moot in the US though - at-will is the default everywhere, with the minor exception of Montana which also has some probatory period protection. Oh well, you guys get paid more to compensate for this.

Let's put it this way, for my current employer, managers are not permitted to act as references or give letters of recommendation to past or current assets or employees. 

 

I'm also not permitted to work in any field that competes with my current employer as a side gig, nor am I aloud to say anything at all about my employer (not that I would, they are always watching social media these days). Nor am I permitted to work for any company that has disparaging things toward my employer. 

 

I am Sadly risk adverse, so I'll try to make a change with the current employer first before walking away. 

[Sandy Bridge]

14 minutes ago, Reciever said:

I'm also not permitted to work in any field that competes with my current employer as a side gig, nor am I aloud to say anything at all about my employer (not that I would, they are always watching social media these days). Nor am I permitted to work for any company that has disparaging things toward my employer. 

That's a perfect description of why I believe non-competes need to be significantly curtailed or abolished.  And aside from spreading trade secrets, shouldn't discussing your employer's work conditions be protected by the 1st Amendment?  Free speech and all that?

 

Okay, I can kind of see "not working in the same field as a side gig while you're working for us", but the rest of it... employees should be able to move to other companies pretty easily.  If you work for Intel and AMD says, "We think Intel processors are awful", why should that prevent you from moving to AMD?

 

But, ugh, that sounds miserable.  HR not approving sick leave?  108ºF temperatures?  Managing 18 people on 10 projects?  My manager managed, at a maximum, 13 people on 5 projects, and was clearly overwhelmed (granted, one of the projects was chaotic and most of the people were new to the company).  But he has the title.  Giving people the job without the title is a form of abusing employees' lack of negotiating power.

 

--------

 

Serious advice, start looking externally.  And maybe take that Project Manager title too.  That doesn't mean you have to stay long-term, just having the title shows that you got promoted there.  I left a job a month after getting a promotion because they were so slow with getting around to it that I was already interviewing by the time they did (and they didn't give a salary raise along with the promotion, I'm not sure why they thought the title alone would be enough to make me stay).  But the title increases your marketability even in the short term.  One of my colleagues recently accepted a project management role and she said the biggest blocker in the job search was not having had the title - check that box off and you wouldn't have that problem.

 

And I know it can suck looking for a new job, but you don't want to be like my uncle who worked at Wal-Mart for 19 years even thought he hated it for the last 12 or so, because he never seriously pursued something better.  It might not have come around quickly, but I'm sure he could have found something much more satisfying if he'd dedicated some effort towards that direction; indeed, a year after he was laid off from Wally World and retired a bit earlier than he planned, he wound up with a new gig that he likes much better.  Doesn't have to be a lot, apply to one job a week and eventually you'll find something better.

 

Saying this as someone who gave notice yesterday on my surprisingly stressful job that's been burning through people left and right.  Admittedly I'm probably less risk-averse than you are, but my stress levels have been falling rapidly since that conversation with my manager, even though I'm still there for another week and a half.  Not everyone would be comfortable not having something lined up right away, and I understand that, but the key is getting to where you are comfortable.  For a lot of people that, "accepted a job offer", for me right now it's, "multiple second-round interviews".

 

 And I also know the feeling of just wanting to browse EFGXT NotebookTalk in the evening after work, rather than trying to find a better day job... but that's a trap.  The forum will survive a few hours spend perusing the local job boards, spend some time finding yourself a better job.

[Mr. Fox]

On 6/27/2023 at 8:23 PM, Reciever said:

Let's put it this way, for my current employer, managers are not permitted to act as references or give letters of recommendation to past or current assets or employees. 

 

I'm also not permitted to work in any field that competes with my current employer as a side gig, nor am I aloud to say anything at all about my employer (not that I would, they are always watching social media these days). Nor am I permitted to work for any company that has disparaging things toward my employer. 

 

I am Sadly risk adverse, so I'll try to make a change with the current employer first before walking away. 

 

On 6/27/2023 at 9:01 PM, Sandy Bridge said:

That's a perfect description of why I believe non-competes need to be significantly curtailed or abolished.  And aside from spreading trade secrets, shouldn't discussing your employer's work conditions be protected by the 1st Amendment?  Free speech and all that?

 

Okay, I can kind of see "not working in the same field as a side gig while you're working for us", but the rest of it... employees should be able to move to other companies pretty easily.  If you work for Intel and AMD says, "We think Intel processors are awful", why should that prevent you from moving to AMD?

 

But, ugh, that sounds miserable.  HR not approving sick leave?  108ºF temperatures?  Managing 18 people on 10 projects?  My manager managed, at a maximum, 13 people on 5 projects, and was clearly overwhelmed (granted, one of the projects was chaotic and most of the people were new to the company).  But he has the title.  Giving people the job without the title is a form of abusing employees' lack of negotiating power.

 

--------

 

Serious advice, start looking externally.  And maybe take that Project Manager title too.  That doesn't mean you have to stay long-term, just having the title shows that you got promoted there.  I left a job a month after getting a promotion because they were so slow with getting around to it that I was already interviewing by the time they did (and they didn't give a salary raise along with the promotion, I'm not sure why they thought the title alone would be enough to make me stay).  But the title increases your marketability even in the short term.  One of my colleagues recently accepted a project management role and she said the biggest blocker in the job search was not having had the title - check that box off and you wouldn't have that problem.

 

And I know it can suck looking for a new job, but you don't want to be like my uncle who worked at Wal-Mart for 19 years even thought he hated it for the last 12 or so, because he never seriously pursued something better.  It might not have come around quickly, but I'm sure he could have found something much more satisfying if he'd dedicated some effort towards that direction; indeed, a year after he was laid off from Wally World and retired a bit earlier than he planned, he wound up with a new gig that he likes much better.  Doesn't have to be a lot, apply to one job a week and eventually you'll find something better.

 

Saying this as someone who gave notice yesterday on my surprisingly stressful job that's been burning through people left and right.  Admittedly I'm probably less risk-averse than you are, but my stress levels have been falling rapidly since that conversation with my manager, even though I'm still there for another week and a half.  Not everyone would be comfortable not having something lined up right away, and I understand that, but the key is getting to where you are comfortable.  For a lot of people that, "accepted a job offer", for me right now it's, "multiple second-round interviews".

 

 And I also know the feeling of just wanting to browse EFGXT NotebookTalk in the evening after work, rather than trying to find a better day job... but that's a trap.  The forum will survive a few hours spend perusing the local job boards, spend some time finding yourself a better job.

Good help is very hard to find. Screening job applicants is difficult. Lots of people lead you to believe they are more special than they turn out to be if they are hired. Employees that have a strong work ethic and are dedicated to producing superior results are rare. That seems strange to me because I'm the kind of person that views my performance and product to be a reflection of my character. That's how I was raised. That's how I raised my kids, and everywhere they work they are viewed as rock stars because of their commitment to excellence and strong work ethic.

 

The company I left to take my current position had a policy of not allowing managers to provide letters of referral or recommendation. It's not uncommon to see that in big corporations. Part of the reason for it is avoiding litigation in case the feedback is not positive. Comments can be, and sometimes are, taken out of context by dishonest people for secondary gain. Juries often side with underdogs that are actually wolves in sheep's clothing that deserved to be fired.

 

Because of my work ethic and the pride I take in the work that I produce, I have almost always earned an exceeds or an exceptional annual performance review. The last two times I left a company to take a promotion to a higher level position with another company, I have provided the previous two or three years worth of annual performance evaluations with glowing comments from my superiors and the top box scores on performance. Those documents stood on their own, and I think were at least partially responsible for being selected. Every time I've done that their HR Manager was shocked and said they had never seen anyone do that before, but they were impressed with me using that as a job hunting strategy. It was obviously effective at corroborating impressions and comments from the interview process.

 

If you work for someone that doesn't give you credit for being a superior employee and delivering unmatched results then you can't use that tactic. But that's also another reason to be looking. Credit needs to be given when credit is due. If it's not, then you're working for a bad manager or a bad company.

[Sandy Bridge]

Oh, and I was supposed to post or comment on a benchmark.  Mr. Fox's quad-SATA-SSD benchmark is certainly interesting.  The speeds scale pretty well, I suppose it's a "as long as you trust the reliability of the SSDs and have a backup plan in place" proposition.

 

Here's my Inland Prime 2 TB benchmark (two separate drives):

 

 

 

Pretty happy with the sequential speeds, this lappie is limited to PCIe 3.0 so there would have been little point pursuing faster speeds sequentially.

 

Random read could be a bit better, that's probably where I lost out due to not spending the extra $30/drive for a 970 Evo.  Interestingly, the 970 Evo has since dropped to the same price... I guess a lot of other people were also buying Inland over Samsung at a 30% price difference.

[Sandy Bridge]

9 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

The last two times I left a company to take a promotion to a higher level position with another company I have provided the previous two or three years worth of annual performance evaluations with glowing comments from my superiors and the top box scores on performance.

That's brilliant.  I don't know why I never thought of that.  Haven't seen it when I've been on the interviewer side either.

 

I've also worked at a big company that had a policy of not allowing HR/managers to give feedback beyond, "yes, they worked here from X to Y."  That said, I have had non-manager colleagues from that company act as references.  It doesn't have to be from a manager to be a compelling reference if the colleague can speak effectively to your skills.

[Mr. Fox]

1 minute ago, Sandy Bridge said:

Oh, and I was supposed to post or comment on a benchmark.  Mr. Fox's quad-SATA-SSD benchmark is certainly interesting.  The speeds scale pretty well, I suppose it's a "as long as you trust the reliability of the SSDs and have a backup plan in place" proposition.

 

Here's my Inland Prime 2 TB benchmark (two separate drives):

 

 

 

Pretty happy with the sequential speeds, this lappie is limited to PCIe 3.0 so there would have been little point pursuing faster speeds sequentially.

 

Random read could be a bit better, that's probably where I lost out due to not spending the extra $30/drive for a 970 Evo.  Interestingly, the 970 Evo has since dropped to the same price... I guess a lot of other people were also buying Inland over Samsung at a 30% price difference.

That's nice performance. There are a lot of brands like Inland, Silicon Power, Sabrent, Team group, etc. that produce quality products at reasonable prices, that generally exceed, match, or almost match, higher-priced name brand products built with the same core components. Anymore I don't waste my money purchasing big brand SSDs. They're just not worth the extra money IMHO. I realize no benefit from spending more for the more popular brand name.

 

RAID 0 is not a smart option for storage if the possibility of data loss presents difficulty or hardship. It is a good solution for combining drives to have a massive storage volume and increased performance for something like a game storage drive. That's how I was using it. Rather than scattering out my game libraries among multiple SSDs it made good sense to just combine the four 1TB drives into a single volume that had more than adequate capacity for everything, with room to spare, and a significant boost in read write and copy performance. If I lose what is on them, no biggie. Just download them again as needed.

[Sandy Bridge]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

That's nice performance. There are a lot of brands like Inland, Silicon Power, Sabrent, Team group, etc. that produce quality products at reasonable prices, that generally exceed, match, or almost match, higher-priced name brand products built with the same core components. Anymore I don't waste my money purchasing big brand SSDs. They're just not worth the extra money IMHO. I realize no benefit from spending more for the more popular brand name.

 

RAID 0 is not a smart option for storage if the possibility of data loss presents difficulty or hardship. It is a good solution for combining drives to have a massive storage volume and increased performance for something like a game storage drive. That's how I was using it. Rather than scattering out my game libraries among multiple SSDs it made good sense to just combine the four 1TB drives into a single volume that had more than adequate capacity for everything, with room to spare, and a significant boost in read write and copy performance. If I lose what is on them, no biggie. Just download them again as needed.

Yeah, I researched the options quite a bit, and couldn't really convince myself I'd be able to notice the Samsung difference, especially compared to what I could gain by putting the money towards other upgrades.

 

A Steam library sounds like the perfect use case for those SSDs.  I've recently been tweaking my backup plan to exclude my Steam games for the same reason - easy to re-download.  Only catch is that a small number of the older ones put their save games in their download directory, so I have to watch out for that.  But the two of those that I play regularly and might care about a save game for are easy enough to selectively enable in my backup.

[Mr. Fox]

OK, got Linux up and running on the Apex. Everything Windows used to be that was right and good.

[tps3443]

2 hours ago, Sandy Bridge said:

Oh, and I was supposed to post or comment on a benchmark.  Mr. Fox's quad-SATA-SSD benchmark is certainly interesting.  The speeds scale pretty well, I suppose it's a "as long as you trust the reliability of the SSDs and have a backup plan in place" proposition.

 

Here's my Inland Prime 2 TB benchmark (two separate drives):

 

 

 

Pretty happy with the sequential speeds, this lappie is limited to PCIe 3.0 so there would have been little point pursuing faster speeds sequentially.

 

Random read could be a bit better, that's probably where I lost out due to not spending the extra $30/drive for a 970 Evo.  Interestingly, the 970 Evo has since dropped to the same price... I guess a lot of other people were also buying Inland over Samsung at a 30% price difference.

Those speeds are absolutely good

enough. Is that just 1 SSD?

[Etern4l]

6 hours ago, Reciever said:

Let's put it this way, for my current employer, managers are not permitted to act as references or give letters of recommendation to past or current assets or employees. 

 

I may have seen this before, but not sure it's legally enforceable. One of the hallmarks of suspect companies is that they try to put in clauses in contracts or internal regulations that are unenforceable to illegal, essentially as a form of bullying. 

 

6 hours ago, Reciever said:

I'm also not permitted to work in any field that competes with my current employer as a side gig, nor am I aloud to say anything at all about my employer (not that I would, they are always watching social media these days). Nor am I permitted to work for any company that has disparaging things toward my employer. 

 

Well, non-compete clauses are common, but I've never seen any clauses against working for a company disparaging towards the employer lol What a more switched on HR department would do is just say you require pre-approval for outside commercial activities and interests.

 

6 hours ago, Reciever said:

I am Sadly risk adverse, so I'll try to make a change with the current employer first before walking away. 

 

That's understandable, especially if you've worked for them for some time, and climbed the ladder a bit. The ease of finding a new job tends to be inversely proportional to your seniority. There are just way fewer opportunities at senior levels. 

 

Of course, it helps to be exceptional individual like @Mr. Fox (and good for him), who has also been at least somewhat lucky to have had nice managers who have provided him with the recognition he deserves etc. But one corollary from that is that if you don't have such manager(s), you need to get out.

 

6 hours ago, Sandy Bridge said:

But, ugh, that sounds miserable.  HR not approving sick leave?  108ºF temperatures?  Managing 18 people on 10 projects?  My manager managed, at a maximum, 13 people on 5 projects, and was clearly overwhelmed (granted, one of the projects was chaotic and most of the people were new to the company).  But he has the title.  Giving people the job without the title is a form of abusing employees' lack of negotiating power.

 

This - clearly a toxic workplace. Very sorry to hear, even though @Reciever seems to be an extremely stoic and resilient individual, this kind of BS will eat away at the physical and mental health, and only those who lost any of those things really know how valuable they are. TL:DR; There is nothing more valuable, apart from the family. Once you lose them, you are done - especially in the US with no universal healthcare.

 

Knowing almost nothing about the actual situation, I would suggest the smart thing to do here is to keep your head down, try to appear as positive and enthusiastic to the employer as possible, and otherwise spend every second looking for a permanent way out of the situation. There is very little chance the employer will change for the better.

 

Rage-quitting without a solid plan B would obviously be a bad idea (for one thing, in the UK you can't claim any unemployment benefits if you do that, not sure if there are any in the US/your state), with the one exception where you want to sue them - this is called "constructive dismissal", basically you would be saying in the legal case is that the situation was so bad you had to quit. Of course, suing an employer could be a career limiting move if information about the proceedings becomes public or word gets out, a point lawyers probably wouldn't be pressing.

 

5 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Because of my work ethic and the pride I take and the work that I produced I have always been given and exceeds or an exceptional and your performance review. 

 

That's great, well done. I have no doubt that's the case, but also remember that performance is relative. How much competition did you face on your way up? The drastic scenario is whereby pretty much everyone around you is a rockstar. Moreover, rather than being grateful for having exceptional hard working individuals working for them, your manager is a bit insecure, because he knows all those ambitious rockstars are ultimately out to replace him. Welcome to a lovely rat race in a corporation somewhere in San Francisco or NYC, good luck 😉 

 

BTW having alternative opportunities available in your area of interest and expertise also helps a lot, not clear it applies in the case at hand.

 

5 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

If you work for someone that doesn't give you credit for being a superior employee delivering unmatched results then you can't use that tactic. But that's also another reason to be looking. Credit needs to be given when credit is due. If it's not, then you're working for a bad manager or a bad company.

 

Yep, but then you don't have that performance review you deserve to show to prospective employers, and a toxic employer has further ways to mess you up. For instance, they may try to make it difficult for you to interview. I've actually heard of people getting fired for interviewing, and getting fired never looks good on a resume.

[Reciever]

3 hours ago, Etern4l said:

 

I may have seen this before, but not sure it's legally enforceable. One of the hallmarks of suspect companies is that they try to put in clauses in contracts or internal regulations that are unenforceable to illegal, essentially as a form of bullying. 

 

The way I got around this is since none of the people I work with directly from a hierarchy standpoint are my supervisor/manager in any way. Same goes to those that I manage, so I provide recommendations to whom ever wants them (if they are someone I am willing to attach my name to, of course).

 

3 hours ago, Etern4l said:

Well, non-compete clauses are common, but I've never seen any clauses against working for a company disparaging towards the employer lol What a more switched on HR department would do is just say you require pre-approval for outside commercial activities and interests.

 

Yeah the disparaging detail is what perked a brow the most for me as well.

 

3 hours ago, Etern4l said:

That's understandable, especially if you've worked for them for some time, and climbed the ladder a bit. The ease of finding a new job tends to be inversely proportional to your seniority. There are just way fewer opportunities at senior levels. 

 

I've made hasty decisions in the past that lead me to be unable to feed myself when I was younger, the result I work hard, efficiently and consistently. The bad is it takes some time before I consider that I am being abused.

 

3 hours ago, Etern4l said:

This - clearly a toxic workplace. Very sorry to hear, even though @Reciever seems to be an extremely stoic and resilient individual, this kind of BS will eat away at the physical and mental health, and only those who lost any of those things really know how valuable they are. TL:DR; There is nothing more valuable, apart from the family. Once you lose them, you are done - especially in the US with no universal healthcare.

 

Knowing almost nothing about the actual situation, I would suggest the smart thing to do here is to keep your head down, try to appear as positive and enthusiastic to the employer as possible, and otherwise spend every second looking for a permanent way out of the situation. There is very little chance the employer will change for the better.

 

Rage-quitting without a solid plan B would obviously be a bad idea (for one thing, in the UK you can't claim any unemployment benefits if you do that, not sure if there are any in the US/your state), with the one exception where you want to sue them - this is called "constructive dismissal", basically you would be saying in the legal case is that the situation was so bad you had to quit. Of course, suing an employer could be a career limiting move if information about the proceedings becomes public or word gets out, a point lawyers probably wouldn't be pressing.

 

No kidding, this is the second time I have been sick this month. I was in the middle of a water fast to take advantage of the heat and cut some weight. Made it home but couldnt make it up the drive way, which led to a panic attack and convulsions. Had no idea about the Flu, only clue would very very mild sinus pressure, but I figured that was just going through a lot of heat and fluids. My immediate clan I havent spoken with in years, but my cousin was able to help me.

 

Part of the issue is they also wouldnt let me back, to which I asked if they are firing me or not, and to have an answer by EOB. HR stepped in and finally said I can come back. Though, I expect they still want to get rid of me since when I ask a question, I want an answer. According to HR, my reputation is universal amongst the ENTIRE staff that I am an expletive. When ever I try to mend bridges for possible breaches in decorum I am met with a number of confused looks.

 

For now I am back at work, with flu, 2 blown out ear drums, blurred vision in my right eye and 115F temp in the warehouse. I know they are just looking for a mistake to be made as justification to get rid of me. Unfortunately for them,

 

I dont make mistakes.

 

Here on the forums and in personal life Im sure I make many lol

 

 

[Papusan]

Anus. Always Asus. Weird it had to be Asus? Or was it doomed to be so? Asus has become a real Nightmare for CableMod. But I expect they sell so many cards that they don't want stop selling adapters to that brand. And if they did, the sales for rest of the brands different 4090s would go to HELL as well. 

 

Will see if the CM reps will reply on my question in the latest burn down thread. Weird not many have asked for a meltdown statistic with custom CM 12VHPWR cables. They have it (outdated) for the adapers so why not for their custom cables?

 

Edit. Got answer from CableMod. Nice Nvidia didn't go the more difficult route, HaHa

 

Posted 6 hours ago Melted 180 degree adapter, also melted into my 4090 connector >.>

Posted 1 hours ago Melted 4090 Strix 🔥🔥🔥

[cylix]

 

[ryan]

1 hour ago, cylix said:

 

awesome news for me as my laptop runs like a 4060 lol. sad. Im glad I held off this gen,when the 6060 comes out then ill pounce but for now all were going to get is console ports so the demand shouldn't go up too much for the next 4 years, but vram at 6gb in concerning.

[Mr. Fox]

12 hours ago, Etern4l said:

Of course, it helps to be exceptional individual like @Mr. Fox (and good for him), who has also been at least somewhat lucky to have had nice managers who have provided him with the recognition he deserves etc. But one corollary from that is that if you don't have such manager(s), you need to get out.

Thank you for the kind words. I am humbled by them.

 

I am not special in a way that anyone else could not be equally special, only deliberate and committed to producing the best product that I am mentally and physically capable of producing. It might not be common, but absolutely should be normal or ordinary. It is unfortunate that it is not. I am, indeed, blessed to have had bosses that appreciated my personal sacrifice, commitment and effort. Having had a couple of bad bosses before, I know that not everyone is fortunate enough to have a good boss. There is some truth to the cliché that "people don’t leave bad jobs, they leave bad bosses" but it really does fall on the shoulders of the company. After all, they promoted a "bad boss" and allow an unfavorable culture to exist. The bad boss is merely one of the outward symptoms of a bad company.

[Papusan]

1 hour ago, cylix said:

 

This is in reality a 4050 at $300. Perverse. But it won't melt any of the new or old power connectors.

Nvidia GeForce RTX 4060 Review: $300 GPU techspot.com

 

Nvidia Clown Themselves… Again! GeForce RTX 4060 Review. More Trash. A real slap in the face to the  gamers. Don't buy it.

 

[Etern4l]

8 hours ago, Reciever said:

No kidding, this is the second time I have been sick this month. I was in the middle of a water fast to take advantage of the heat and cut some weight. Made it home but couldnt make it up the drive way, which led to a panic attack and convulsions. Had no idea about the Flu, only clue would very very mild sinus pressure, but I figured that was just going through a lot of heat and fluids. My immediate clan I havent spoken with in years, but my cousin was able to help me.

 

Part of the issue is they also wouldnt let me back, to which I asked if they are firing me or not, and to have an answer by EOB. HR stepped in and finally said I can come back. Though, I expect they still want to get rid of me since when I ask a question, I want an answer. According to HR, my reputation is universal amongst the ENTIRE staff that I am an expletive. When ever I try to mend bridges for possible breaches in decorum I am met with a number of confused looks.

 

For now I am back at work, with flu, 2 blown out ear drums, blurred vision in my right eye and 115F temp in the warehouse. I know they are just looking for a mistake to be made as justification to get rid of me. Unfortunately for them,

 

I dont make mistakes.

 

Here on the forums and in personal life Im sure I make many lol

 

 

 

This is all quite disturbing. You need to prioritise your health. As someone who did a fair amount of fasting, including a bit of water fasting, I would say this can be taxing on the body, and definitely down-regulates the immune system - best done on vacation, with stress minimised (cortisol switches off immune system as well). Also, you don't really do this kind of fast for weight loss, as most of the weight bounces back - the primary idea is to trigger autophagy and clean up the body, followed by a period of re-feeding and cell regeneration.

 

HR telling you people think you are an expletive is crazy. If you have some sort of evidence for that, then you are in a better defensive position. Obviously, this is not a good spot to go into the matter much further, however, I we assume they have really wanted to get rid of you, I do wonder why they haven't yet? Fear of possible litigation would be one reason, but if that's not it then perhaps the most straightforward explanation is true: you are of value to them. Still, I hope you can work out a better situation for yourself. Maybe take a sabbatical and unleash your eloquence abroad as an English teacher or something. Please get well and take good care of yourself.

 

  

1 hour ago, Mr. Fox said:

There is some truth to the cliché that "people don’t leave bad jobs, they leave bad bosses" but it really does fall on the shoulders of the company. After all, they promoted a "bad boss" and all an unfavorable culture to exist. The bad boss is merely one of the outward symptoms of a bad company.

 

I think that cliche is quite accurate. Whether it falls on the shoulders of the company depends on its size - the company culture can be good overall, but that still doesn't guarantee the absence of bad apples. These things can also get complicated, a sophisticated toxic manager who has been in his position for ages can be very difficult to touch, especially if they have cleverly made themselves indispensable such that the cost and risk involved in trying to uproot them would be considered prohibitive. 

[tps3443]

17 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Yes, I am waiting for it to be shipped from Germany.

  

It didn't say it is no good. Only that it is inferior to the Dark. Because it is. The hardware and firmware is better on the Z690 Dark. The engineering and build quality of the Dark is better. It's overall a better product by every measurement. It is like comparing a high-end European sports car to a Japanese tuner car, LOL. Lots of little things were noticed on day one besides the build quality being inferior. For example, the PCH has a crappy "heat sink" on it that looks fancy, but sucks in terms of function. The PCH runs about 15°C hotter on the Apex because Asus cuts corners on their products without cutting corners on pricing.

 

Why wouldn't it outpace it? There is a reason people like Vince and Luumi were involved in the development of it and use it. There's nothing "gamer" about it in form or functioo. PCB is thicker, more gold traces, etc. It's built by a company that cares about its own reputation, the products its name goes on and the people that buy them. Asus is the opposite of that as a company. It is obvious by their behavior and the utter garbage software they produce to support their product, and their horrible warranty service.

 

This memory sample is superior to anything I have purchased so far. It runs like a Swiss watch on the Dark. In the Apex it can't run 8200 stable and unless I add more voltage and making the timings a whole lot sloppier it can barely handle 8000. The same memory that runs rock solid stable at 8200 CL35-48-48-48-42 with tRFC 560 using 1.435V won't even boot in the Apex unless I loosen the tRAS to like 65, take tRFC over 600 and apply like 1.550V. The fact that it can boot 8200 with more voltage and looser timings makes it a good product, but it doesn't overclock the CPU or memory as well as the Dark does. My 13900KS also needs more voltage for the same core clocks when it is installed in the Apex. Not a lot, but it still needs more. The memory is more difficult to train on the Apex as well. Training was super easy and quick with the Dark.

 

I don't regret buying it. I do regret that the stinking thing is severely overpriced, but I regret that about the 3090 Kingpin and the 4090 Suprim as well. The Z790 Apex is a good product overall. It's probably going to go into the Dark Base Pro just because the Z690 Dark has a bit of an edge over it in terms of overclocking prowess. That is expected, so I am not disappointed or surprised by it.

 

I can pass Cinebench R23 with this 13900KS at 58P, 47E, 50C, 8200M with VCore at 1.295V. It crashes in Cinebench R23 with those clocks and 1.295V. This memory runs 24/7 stable in the Dark at 8200 35/48/48/48/42, tFAW 16, tRFC 560, tCKE 4 with 1.450V, TX under 1.300V. It won't boot with those settings in the Apex and 8000, looser timings and more voltage, I get this... with the same memory modules, running them on water and only 30°C. I paid $399 for the Z690 Dark. I paid $699 for the Apex. Paid close to $300 more for a Strix 4090 than the 4090 Suprim and the Strix was utter garbage. We both know how the Z690 Apex turned out and it was very bad. There is a common denominator here. Fancier and more expensive doesn't make it better.

 

 

EVGA Elite X1 works on the Z490 Dark and Z690 Dark. It is not UWP Micro$lop Store feces. CPU, memory and RGB functionality just work. Armory Crate, AI Suite, Turbo V do not function correctly, and haven't since Z490 days. If you can actually get Armory Crate to run at all, it installs DOZENS of services, more than 1,000 registry keys and a truckload of garbage for components and peripherals that are not even installed. ASUS doesn't let you downgrade firmware anymore and they force you to update the ME firmware. EVGA lets you use whatever you want to use and give you the option to disable the ME firmware. They don't require you to upgrade the ME or use it at all.

 

I ordered a 48GB kit of G.SKILL 8000 from NewEgg. Will see how that goes with the Apex. Honestly, I like it a whole lot better than I thought I would. So, that says something. I was kind of half way expecting that I would RMA it within the 30 day window.  If the G.SKILL 8000 doesn't work well, maybe you can export your BIOS settings as a CMO file and send it to me by email or give me a link to download it to test and see if the results mirror yours.

 

Yeah that’s unfortunate I would just return it, spend the extra $100 bucks and get a Z790 Dark. It sounds like you’re sacrificing a lot of things that you do not want or like at all with the Asus which you already do not like lol, all just to save $100 dollars. Especially since the Z690 Dark was working so good, and you probably prefer those features. This really seems like a no brainer to me. You had a Z690 Dark, grab a Z790 Dark as a replacement. While this would be the first time I have ever heard of a Z690 Dark out overclocking a Z790 Apex. I know everyone has a different experience with things and it definitely happens. As for the PCH mine is 53c right now, but it works. I believe the Unify-X ran much hotter though. 
 

I’m really enjoying mine, it has been super reliable. Last night I updated to the latest FW and latest bios that were released last week. I’m allowing it to run the stock profile for a day or so and then I will start heavy overclocking back to where I was before. I did notice a nice 7-9 watt reduction in CPU power with the new bios 🙂

 

I have always been a EVGA guy. I’ve ran X299 Dark, Z490 Dark, Z590 Dark. I never really cared for Asus products. Now, my new Z790 Apex was practically free which is why I got one. I just traded for it. But if I was buying one now, keep in mind the Z790 Dark is like about 15% more expensive. But in your situation it may be worth it, it would weight a little more “Feels heavy” you can disable ME, PCH would run cooler, and you’d have the best of all features that bios familiarity. 

[Mr. Fox]

33 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

Yeah that’s unfortunate I would just return it, spend the extra $100 bucks and get a Z790 Dark. It sounds like you’re sacrificing a lot of things that you do not want or like at all with the Asus which you already do not like lol, all just to save $100 dollars. Especially since the Z690 Dark was working so good, and you probably prefer those features. This really seems like a no brainer to me. You had a Z690 Dark, grab a Z790 Dark as a replacement. While this would be the first time I have ever heard of a Z690 Dark out overclocking a Z790 Apex. I know everyone has a different experience with things and it definitely happens. As for the PCH mine is 53c right now, but it works. I believe the Unify-X ran much hotter though. 
 

I’m really enjoying mine, it has been super reliable. Last night I updated to the latest FW and latest bios that were released last week. I’m allowing it to run the stock profile for a day or so and then I will start heavy overclocking back to where I was before. I did notice a nice 7-9 watt reduction in CPU power with the new bios 🙂

 

I have always been a EVGA guy. I’ve ran X299 Dark, Z490 Dark, Z590 Dark. I never really cared for Asus products. Now, my new Z790 Apex was practically free which is why I got one. I just traded for it. But if I was buying one now, keep in mind the Z790 Dark is like about 15% more expensive. But in your situation it may be worth it, it would weight a little more “Feels heavy” you can disable ME, PCH would run cooler, and you’d have the best of all features that bios familiarity. 

The silicon lottery is very real. It affects all brands of motherboards, CPUs, GPU and memory. The G.SKILL 8000 memory I ordered will be here on Friday. The Apex may behave differently with that memory. Delivery got delayed by a day with UPS due to a delivery vehicle mechanical failure. NewEgg in SoCal is usually next day delivery for me. I do not doubt the overclocking capabilities of the Z790 Apex, but it is an inferior product in terms of overall design, build quality, firmware and software support.

 

That said, I am not ready to give up on it yet. The sad reality is EVGA has decided to stop doing motherboards, too. So, ASUS, as unacceptable as I find them to be as a company, is the only real alternative in my mind. That is not a good place to find ourselves in. Returning the Apex and buying a Z790 Dark won't necessarily be ideal because of EVGA's decision to exit the market. With EVGA out of the picture, I'm going to have to get comfortable with plan B. ASUS is plan B. Kind of like my effort to replace Windows with Linux. I tend to be a "rip off the band aid" kind of person. It won't hurt after it stops hurting. Get it over with and not have to fret the tragedy tomorrow holds in store. Embrace the pain now rather than anticipate it, LOL. Z790 offers no tangible benefit over Z690. Intel (by their own admission) added nothing to improve performance. They eliminated Optane support and repurposed the PCIe lanes that were tied up for Optane to support Gen 5, which won't be relevant until Z790 is obsolete. The only reason some Z790 motherboard are better is because the OEMs stopped burning calories on Z690 because they were focused on selling shiny new Z790 motherboards.

 

The Unify X was awesome, but they don't make a current version of it, unfortunately. Gigabyte doesn't offer anything acceptable. Building a better thermal solution might have eaten into profit margin too much. Most consumers won't even notice the PCH is on fire unless they see flames or smell smoke, LOL.

 

Yes, you are correct. The Unify X PCH ran extremely hot. It was easy to address by enabling ASPM in the BIOS so that the PCH chip wasn't running full tilt 24/7 with a lousy heatsink. ASPM being disabled is the new normal. EVGA addressed it with a top notch thermal solution to keep it cool, whereas ASUS and MSI have not. The fact that your PCH is running cooler might be the BIOS settings I am using. When you send me your CMO file to test, it might make mine cool down.

[Mr. Fox]

On a different note, here is the review I promised. I love this thing. It's awesome.

 

Sabrent 4-Drive NVMe SSD to PCIe 3.0 X4 card (EC-P3X4) Product Review | ExtremeHW

 

Sabrent 4-Drive NVMe SSD to PCIe 3.0 X4 card (EC-P3X4) Review Discussion Thread

 

 

[Papusan]

2 hours ago, Papusan said:

This is in reality a 4050 at $300. Perverse. But it won't melt any of the new or old power connectors.

Nvidia GeForce RTX 4060 Review: $300 GPU techspot.com

 

Nvidia Clown Themselves… Again! GeForce RTX 4060 Review. More Trash. A real slap in the face to the  gamers. Don't buy it.

 

 

Whats wrong with Hothardware's tech editor? How is this even possible? A decent value? @Mr. Fox @electrosoftWhy is some tech editors so damn blind? And what you think the Gamers/consumers/average Joe will do after reading the review from their favorite tech site? Many will jump on this overpriced 4060 4050 as sweet candy. This is the closest you can come a paid shill.

 

GeForce RTX 4060 Review Summary & Conclusion
MSRP for new GeForce RTX 4060 cards starts at $299, which is about $30 lower than the RTX 3060's launch price and $50 below the RTX 2060's. It's also about $30 more than the recently-launched Radeon RX 7600. At its expected price point, the GeForce RTX 4060 represents a decent value, especially in light of its all-around

 

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4060 Review: Affordable Cutting-Edge Gaming

 

 

[Mr. Fox]

10 minutes ago, Papusan said:

 

Whats wrong with Hothardware's tech editor? How is this even possible? A decent value? @Mr. Fox @electrosoftWhy is some tech editors so damn blind? And what you think the Gamers/consumers/average Joe will do after reading the review from their favorite tech site? Many will jump on this overpriced 4060 4050 as sweet candy. This is the closest you can come a paid shill.

 

GeForce RTX 4060 Review Summary & Conclusion
MSRP for new GeForce RTX 4060 cards starts at $299, which is about $30 lower than the RTX 3060's launch price and $50 below the RTX 2060's. It's also about $30 more than the recently-launched Radeon RX 7600. At its expected price point, the GeForce RTX 4060 represents a decent value, especially in light of its all-around

 

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4060 Review: Affordable Cutting-Edge Gaming

I can guess, but the guesses suggest something untoward and nefarious about reviewers that call garbage good.

[Reciever]

2 hours ago, Etern4l said:

 

This is all quite disturbing. You need to prioritise your health. As someone who did a fair amount of fasting, including a bit of water fasting, I would say this can be taxing on the body, and definitely down-regulates the immune system - best done on vacation, with stress minimised (cortisol switches off immune system as well). Also, you don't really do this kind of fast for weight loss, as most of the weight bounces back - the primary idea is to trigger autophagy and clean up the body, followed by a period of re-feeding and cell regeneration.

 

HR telling you people think you are an expletive is crazy. If you have some sort of evidence for that, then you are in a better defensive position. Obviously, this is not a good spot to go into the matter much further, however, I we assume they have really wanted to get rid of you, I do wonder why they haven't yet? Fear of possible litigation would be one reason, but if that's not it then perhaps the most straightforward explanation is true: you are of value to them. Still, I hope you can work out a better situation for yourself. Maybe take a sabbatical and unleash your eloquence abroad as an English teacher or something. Please get well and take good care of yourself.

 

  

 

I think that cliche is quite accurate. Whether it falls on the shoulders of the company depends on its size - the company culture can be good overall, but that still doesn't guarantee the absence of bad apples. These things can also get complicated, a sophisticated toxic manager who has been in his position for ages can be very difficult to touch, especially if they have cleverly made themselves indispensable such that the cost and risk involved in trying to uproot them would be considered prohibitive. 

 

Wasnt taxing to me at all, done a couple 35-day water fasts, I still took a multivitamin every few days and supplemented my salts. Its really hard to eat a huge meal or even an "old" sized meal after a fast, frankly after my first fast I wanted to throw up after doing that so instead I just adjust to what the new norm is and adjust through the week. This time around I plan to do 5:2 and OMAD on the feeding days just for supplement stacks to go down easier with food. I dont really plan these things, once my hunger pains dont come back for a day I go ahead and do a fast. Not to mention save a few bucks. It is true though that people can yo-yo, I am honestly not sure how they do that other than to be determined to eat as much as they were before? Dunno

 

This was said in a meeting that I was ambushed into, after I notified them that at that time, they were then in complete violation of my offer letter, as well as not telling me when they changed my department. More importantly telling me that they were not required to tell me what department I belonged too, as that was not information I was privileged too. It was also at this time I suggested that we might spend some time looking into Linux deployments to which HR replied that they did not have the funds to acquire a Linux OS for testing as well as, they may require that I get certain certifications, one of which is Microsoft A+ Certification.

 

The problem with HR is everytime I train a replacement, they fire them and then are left unable to fire me as they dont understand the basics in terms of how my area operates.

[Papusan]

2 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

I can guess, but the guesses suggest something untoward and nefarious about reviewers that call garbage good.

Look at this.... Asus 4060 ROG Strix OC = 537.65 United States Dollar here home. Yep with the nice 25% Norwegian tax😬 And the cheapest of the 4060s is 427.30 United States Dollar and not so much better. Garbage is bad. But what can we say about overpriced Garbage? Double Garbage?

 

 

 

You can get a 3070 for 324.90 United States Dollar in the used market here. And you get up to 4 years free warranty if the card was bought last year. I compared the 2 years old 3070 vs 4060 results from Techspot.com https://www.techspot.com/review/2701-nvidia-geforce-rtx-4060/

 

Why pay up to 65% more for the 4060 Strix OC over a used 3070? The 6800XT in the used market is still all too expensive. Same for the 6800. So thats not an option.

 

 

Why does the new 4060 even need to exist? I really hope Nvidia will be screwed on this one.