*Official Benchmark Thread* - Post it here or it didn't happen :D

[Papusan]

GTX 970 - Grabbed some more points for @PremaHwbot Team 🙂

 

https://hwbot.org/submission/5304746_papusan_3dmark06_geforce_gtx_970_84408_marks

 

https://hwbot.org/submission/5304759_papusan_3dmark11___entry_geforce_gtx_970_33420_marks?recalculate=true

 

https://hwbot.org/submission/5304757_papusan_3dmark11___performance_geforce_gtx_970_21180_marks?recalculate=true

 

https://hwbot.org/submission/5304761_papusan_3dmark11___extreme_geforce_gtx_970_7458_marks?recalculate=true

 

 

Again right in front of mr Oviz😆

https://hwbot.org/submission/5304767_papusan_unigine_heaven___xtreme_geforce_gtx_970_4455.17_dx11_marks?recalculate=true

 

 

@Mr. Fox @electrosoft See post#9,067 about Asus. See also post #9,061

https://www.overclock.net/threads/official-asus-strix-maximus-z690-owners-thread.1794802/post-29207801

[Mr. Fox]

2 hours ago, Papusan said:

@Mr. Fox @electrosoft See post#9,067 about Asus. See also post #9,061

https://www.overclock.net/threads/official-asus-strix-maximus-z690-owners-thread.1794802/post-29207801

Definitely not good. That one post gives me nightmare flashbacks about the Z490 Apex that died and destroyed my cherry 10900KF when it went belly up.

 

This one is kind of stating the obvious, LOL.

I think that asus has some serious problems...

Asus Z690 Extreme is in production while Asus Z790 Extreme is discontinued.

 

I think that Asus has lots of problems.

[electrosoft]

3 hours ago, Rage Set said:

 

One of my colleagues traded me a 7600X, DDR5 32GB 5600MT kit and cash after he damaged his mobo trying to install the 7600X. I gave him a 11900K, 16GB of RAM and MSI Z590 Gaming Force mobo. 

 

After two weeks of research and a tiny bit of push by you, I purchased a MSI MEG 670E ACE. I know it is quite the overkill board for a 7600X but I do plan on buying a 7950X when they drop to $400 or AMD's next gen processors. I got the mobo for $512 from Amazon in "acceptable" condition (it was only missing the box, otherwise it was brand new). I need 10G built into the mobo.

 

I never used MSI before, so it is taking me some time to adjust. It's a good mobo though. No complains so far. I think I may go MSI in the future now as I won't touch Asus unless it is dirt cheap. 

 

I can usually dial in some issue or issues I've had on just about every motherboard (just comes with the territory), but there's nothing I can really complain about with the MSI X670E Carbon. Only issue I had was with Samsung DDR5 modules just acting completely inconsistent. I'm not alone though as it seems to be a problem with many across several brands of AMD AM5 boards. Hynix just works as intended.

 

That's a nice bit of overkill in the best way. 🙂

 

I did the same thing with my MSI X670E board on Amazon and it was brand new except missing the original box.

 

I still have my eye on a Taichi 7900 XTX though (especially returning the 4090 FE opens up a future budget slot).

 

 

3 hours ago, Raiderman said:

I chose MSI originally for my x670 because of canonkongs suggestion on the win-raid forums for running windows 7. I'm a bit disappointed with the stupid A6 hang on restarts, so I may go back to AsRock in the future. The X570 I had was a great board for ocing.

 

Are you still getting hang on restarts with Hynix modules? I had problems with Samsung modules but it has been smooth sailing with these M-die sets and no hangs.

 

 

[Papusan]

2 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Definitely not good. That one post gives me nightmare flashbacks about the Z490 Apex that died and destroyed my cherry 10900KF when it went belly up.

 

This one is kind of stating the obvious, LOL.

 

 

LOOL

 

With next sum up on hwbot server I will come in front of der8auer 🙂 Here is a nice new one. 4th place in Heaven Basic for GTX 970

 

https://hwbot.org/submission/5304768_papusan_unigine_heaven___basic_geforce_gtx_970_8191.64_dx9_marks?recalculate=true

 

Edit. Now 72th and in front as expected 🙂 https://hwbot.org/career/?offset=62

[Mr. Fox]

12 hours ago, Raiderman said:

I chose MSI originally for my x670 because of canonkongs suggestion on the win-raid forums for running windows 7. I'm a bit disappointed with the stupid A6 hang on restarts, so I may go back to AsRock in the future. The X570 I had was a great board for ocing.

 

9 hours ago, electrosoft said:

Are you still getting hang on restarts with Hynix modules? I had problems with Samsung modules but it has been smooth sailing with these M-die sets and no hangs.

I used to have that issue frequently with the X570 Crosshair. It is very frustrating. Between that, the USB drop-out issue and having to turn off the PSU off and on again about a third of the time before the board would power on I felt like I was going to lose my mind. How much of that was attributable to AMD or ASUS incompetence I will never know.

[Etern4l]

13 hours ago, Raiderman said:

I chose MSI originally for my x670 because of canonkongs suggestion on the win-raid forums for running windows 7. I'm a bit disappointed with the stupid A6 hang on restarts, so I may go back to AsRock in the future. The X570 I had was a great board for ocing.

Yeah, can’t fault MSI ACE, enterprise-grade reliability so far. 

[Papusan]

Nvidia is the guinea pig for the revised 12V-2×6 power connector. Yep, they know much more than what they will tell you. Just let the owners who bought the launch card of 4090 struggle with smoke and fire. I'm sure Nvidia also will add in a revamped connector on the 4090FE. At least, don't use any of the angled adapters out there, LOOL

 

Nvidia Seemingly Uses Revamped Power Connector for RTX 4070 FE tomshardware.com

 

 

Read also my comment  to CabeMod rep🙂 But I'm sure CableMod reps will try to twist it. Or the fanboys.

CM Basics 90° Angled Cable

 

 

[tps3443]

29 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

Yeah, can’t fault MSI ACE, enterprise-grade reliability so far. 

MSI is really great, I just don’t understand where their head is at. When something is good, we should keep that going and keep it updated with new models. 
 

I loved my Unity-X Z690 so much. It was just fantastic.
 

The updated Gigabutt Tachyon Z790 2 dimm released

The updated EVGA Z790 Dark 2 Dimm released

The updated Asus Z790 Apex 2 Dimm released. 
The updated MSI Unify-X 2 Dimm never came 🤷‍♂️

 

Why would MSI not release something that is so awesome? It was and still is a massive success. Most of their new Z790 boards are catered to cheaper priced gamer crowd. 

[Etern4l]

20 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

MSI is really great, I just don’t understand where their head is at. When something is good, we should keep that going and keep it updated with new models. 
 

I loved my Unity-X Z690 so much. It was just fantastic.
 

The updated Gigabutt Tachyon Z790 2 dimm released

The updated EVGA Z790 Dark 2 Dimm released

The updated Asus Z790 Apex 2 Dimm released. 
The updated MSI Unify-X 2 Dimm never came 🤷‍♂️

 

Why would MSI not release something that is so awesome? It was and still is a massive success. Most of their new Z790 boards are catered to cheaper priced gamer crowd. 

The answer is likely straightforward - they weren’t selling enough of those, as Asus and maybe EVGA cornered the niche market. Many people who aren’t extreme overclockers would rather have 4 DIMM slots for upgradeability’s sake I imagine. Many probably because they are not aware of the drawbacks involved on the Alder/Raptor Lake platforms.

[Papusan]

34 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

MSI is really great, I just don’t understand where their head is at. When something is good, we should keep that going and keep it updated with new models. 
 

I loved my Unity-X Z690 so much. It was just fantastic.
 

The updated Gigabutt Tachyon Z790 2 dimm released

The updated EVGA Z790 Dark 2 Dimm released

The updated Asus Z790 Apex 2 Dimm released. 
The updated MSI Unify-X 2 Dimm never came 🤷‍♂️

 

Why would MSI not release something that is so awesome? It was and still is a massive success. Most of their new Z790 boards are catered to cheaper priced gamer crowd. 

Could be they will come with a new 2 dimm board for the Raptor refresh. 

[tps3443]

6 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

The answer is likely straightforward - they weren’t selling enough of those, as Asus and maybe EVGA cornered the niche market. Many people who aren’t extreme overclockers would rather have 4 DIMM slots for upgradeability’s sake I imagine. Many probably because they are not aware of the drawbacks involved on the Alder/Raptor Lake platforms.

I thought this too, but the Unify was a (4) Dimm model, and the Unify-X was a (2) Dimm model so we had both options. They did not release either models. Then to see the Gigabyte Tachyon Z790 2-dimm release right on schedule was just like “Garbage lol”. Not just that but we had a 50% bump to our system ram standards with the new 2x24GB and 2x48GB sticks. 
 

The overclocking community bleeds for the MSI Unify-X Z790. 
 

But what can we do. At least the new Apex is good and not a broken paper weight. 

[Etern4l]

3 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

I thought this too, but the Unify was a (4) Dimm model, and the Unify-X was a (2) Dimm model so we had both options. They did not release either models. Then to see the Gigabyte Tachyon Z790 2-dimm release right on schedule was just like “Garbage lol”. Not just that but we had a 50% bump to our system ram standards with the new 2x24GB and 2x48GB sticks. 
 

The overclocking community bleeds for the MSI Unify-X Z790. 
 

But what can we do. At least the new Apex is good and not a broken paper weight. 

Good point but either way I reckon sales must have had something to do with it - their best sellers would be most likely to get refreshed. Remember that outside of our merry bubble here, the PC market has been suffering a sharp downturn lately.

[Papusan]

32 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

Good point but either way I reckon sales must have had something to do with it - their best sellers would be most likely to get refreshed. Remember that outside of our merry bubble here, the PC market has been suffering a sharp downturn lately.

With the increase in mem capacity for DDR5 sticks there is now less need for 4 dimm boards. This is a very good thing for 2 dimms motherboards. They should become more popular forwards. 

[Etern4l]

29 minutes ago, Papusan said:

With the increase in mem capacity for DDR5 sticks there is now less need for 4 dimm boards. This is a very good thing for 2 dimms motherboards. They should become more popular forwards. 

Yes, but the demand for RAM is going up as well. I’m running 192 GB filled up to the brim, would welcome 64GB DIMMs. I remember folks in the audiovisual effects business were dumping Alienware Area 51M R2 because the number of RAM slots was cut to two and they needed 128GB of RAM (like 3 years ago).
 

It all depends on who tends to buy high-end PCs. The fact that MSI put a high-end gaming board on ice while refreshing a prosumer one is telling. I would not worry though, Assus and SP ratings are not going away 😉 Incidentally they (and Gigab…  or AsRock) are the only ones with W790 boards in the market right now, which I guess is a good indication of their financial standing, since that must be a fairly niche market at the moment. I remember there was a bit of initial excitement about Sapphire Rapids here, and now folks are probably like “right, it’s $4K for the mobo plus an entry-level CPU, I guess I’m fine with my 13900KS”.

[electrosoft]

2 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

 

I used to have that issue frequently with the X570 Crosshair. It is very frustrating. Between that, the USB drop-out issue and having to turn off the PSU off and on again about a third of the time before the board would power on I felt like I was going to lose my mind. How much of that was attributable to AMD or ASUS incompetence I will never know.

 

Same with my X570 MSI Tomahawk. That USB issue was a deal breaker. Your adventures into the 5950x were something to behold to put it mildly....

 

It was definitely a bit of both.

 

 

[Etern4l]

10 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

 

Same with my X570 MSI Tomahawk. That USB issue was a deal breaker. Your adventures into the 5950x were something to behold to put it mildly....

 

It was definitely a bit of both.

 

 

If the issue was occurring across mobo brands, one might be reasonably tempted to blame AMD and their chipset and/or firmware.

[Mr. Fox]

@tps3443is correct. The Z690 MEG Unify-X was, and still is, truly amazing. I wish they would have released a Z790 version of it. I think the bottom line is they probably decided they did not need to, for the following reason(s):

• Z790 doesn't bring anything new that is worthy of mention. Intel eliminated Optane support that hardly anyone cared about, and freed up the PCIe lanes for PCIe 5.0, which nobody benefits from currently. It's a new feature with no practical application. There was zero performance improvement with Z790, except to the extent that OEMs diverted their efforts toward selling the new product. The chipset doesn't offer anything in terms of performance enhancements (per Intel). Z790 boards are better purely as a result of the OEMs burning calories on their shiny new mobos.
• MSI is not focused on the overclocker market. They are a gamer brand first and foremost.
• The Unify-X still overclocks memory better than 99% of the high end motherboards on the market. It smokes 4-DIMM mobos.

I wish MSI would get more in tune with the overclocking crowd. With EVGA leaving the niche, ASUS is really the only serious player at this point. With no competition in that realm, ASUS is more likely to get worse, not better.

 

The Gigabutt Tachyon is a piece of garbage. It is only a smidgen better than the defectively engineered Z690 Apex. If my understanding is correct, it maxes out between 7600 and 7800 with good A-die samples. So, actually that is more than a smidgen better than Z690 Apex, but not in the same league as the Z690 Dark, Z790 Dark or Z790 Apex.

  

2 hours ago, Etern4l said:

If the issue was occurring across mobo brands, one might be reasonably tempted to blame AMD and their chipset and/or firmware.

I do blame them, and that is appropriate. The issues I had were not brand-specific. Some brands were worse than others, but the issues were widespread and totally AMD's fault. Some brands managed to minimize the issues through their own efforts, while others elected to ignore the AMD flaws and it was left up to AMD to try to fix their mistakes. And, AMD didn't really fix anything.

---

---

 65K Cinebench R23 score and 700W+ power draw, while thermally limited by air cooling. Imagine this on chilled water or LN2.

 

[Papusan]

7 hours ago, Papusan said:

Read also my comment  to CabeMod rep🙂 But I'm sure CableMod reps will try to twist it. Or the fanboys.

CM Basics 90° Angled Cable

4 in a row only today. Whats the record? 5, 6 or 7 ? And of course only melted angled adapters. Not the custom or vanilla cables with the tiny 12VHPWR connector. The smoke/melt statistic don't lie.

 

Posted 2 hours ago

Lost my Strix 4090 and feeling stressed now

 

posted 1 hour ago

Yep, Cablemod 4090 adapter melted. Cyberpunk seems to have done it.

 

Posted 1 hour ago

90 degree adapter melted in my Asus TUF 4090 OC

 

Posted 12 minutes ago

Another one

[electrosoft]

2 hours ago, Etern4l said:

If the issue was occurring across mobo brands, one might be reasonably tempted to blame AMD and their chipset and/or firmware.

 

In regards to the USB issues absolutely reasonable to focus the blame on AMD. I do know @Mr. Fox was having other issues with his Asus board though in conjunction with the AMD USB issues. My MSI had the USB issue. His Asus had the issue and my brother's Gigabyte B550 has the issue. I ended up just getting a USB PCIe card to circumvent it for his system as he wasn't willing to go through a MB swap.

 

 

[Etern4l]

3 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

65K Cinebench R23 score and 700W+ power draw, while thermally limited by air cooling. Imagine this on chilled water or LN2.

 

 

Yep, that guy has lots of creator-oriented content, and seems to be biased towards Asus. Well, to be fair when it comes to Sapphire Rapids there is hardly any choice.

 

As for the price of admission, that 3475X he is showing off is ca. £4000 + £1200 for the ASUS Pro WS W790-SAGE SE board. Probably a bit more in $. In other words, the board alone costs more than 13900KS + a reasonable Z790 (or high end Z690) mobo :)
(That said there is a cheaper W790-ACE and an Asrock board, both around £900) 

 

 

 

[Papusan]

How can the AIC partners go down to 999$ if they only have 5% profits from the graphics cards? Something doesn't smell well. Coupon or not, Why sell the cards at a loss? Or maybe Nvidia silently have reduced its profits? Some have to grab the loss. But still, 200$ too expensive. Lower to $799 and the cards would start sell damn well.

 

 

https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidia-geforce-rtx-4080-drops-to-999-for-the-first-time

[Mr. Fox]

1 hour ago, Etern4l said:

 

Yep, that guy has lots of creator-oriented content, and seems to be biased towards Asus. Well, to be fair when it comes to Sapphire Rapids there is hardly any choice.

 

As for the price of admission, that 3475X he is showing off is ca. £4000 + £1200 for the ASUS Pro WS W790-SAGE SE board. Probably a bit more in $. In other words, the board alone costs more than 13900KS + a reasonable Z790 (or high end Z690) mobo 🙂
(That said there is a cheaper W790-ACE and an Asrock board, both around £900) 

 

The markets, and those competing in them, continue to shrink. That unfavorable condition relieves the players of the need for need for urgency or feeling of obligation to produce something better or of more excellent quality than their competitors. This is especially problematic when they have no competitor. It's not really a monopoly. It is merely a situation where nobody else is interested in participating. That is sad and scary for anyone buying the product.

 

I consider most reviews (written or video) to be largely entertainment content, not entirely different than the talking heads that like to think of themselves as journalists and news casters. I accept the entertainment on face value and decide what, if any, of the information contained in the review is worth being noted or counting as fact. More often than not the "news" or "review" is a presentation of personal bias surrounded by bits of information carefully assembled in such a manner as to manipulate the opinions of those attempting to digest what they have just read, watched or heard. The information I value the most is the negative or obscure details that are conveniently omitted by the mainstream because they would adversely impact the agenda they are peddling.

 

We see this constantly in the technology realm, as much or maybe even more than the political and social realms. Professional reviewers do not want to have to find a new way to make money or receive free products that somebody might like to have. They're smart enough to know they won't be asked to review more products if they expose all of the flaws or take a critical view of the products they are provided for review.  That's why I don't do beta product testing for Dell/Alienware any more. They wanted validation more than objective criticism and attention drawn to defects. They never said that, but it was obvious when the products stopped coming when the defects were identified, called out as such, and well documented.

  

11 minutes ago, Papusan said:

How can the AIC partners go down to 999$ if they only have 5% profits from the graphics cards? Something doesn't smell well. Coupon or not, Why sell the cards at a loss? Or maybe Nvidia silently have reduced its profits? Some have to grab the loss. But still, 200$ too expensive. Lower to $799 and the cards would start sell damn well.

 

 

https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidia-geforce-rtx-4080-drops-to-999-for-the-first-time

Probably selling at a loss, and writing off the loss on taxes, to eliminate the liability of having products rot on warehouse or store shelves. The longer the inventory stales, the lower its value falls. Taking a small loss now is better than a large loss later. Or, perhaps an inaccurate representation of profit margin being smaller than it actually is. Or, maybe some of both.

[KING19]

Since every tech reviewer is crapping all over the RTX 4060 mind well add these too!.

 

 

 

[Papusan]

22 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

Probably selling at a loss, and writing off the loss on taxes, to eliminate the liability of having products rot on warehouse or store shelves. The longer the inventory stales, the lower its value falls. Taking a small loss now is better than a large loss later. Or, perhaps an inaccurate representation of profit margin being smaller than it actually is. Or, maybe some of both.

If they are able to sell more cards they should get better prices from Nvidia. So maybe some of both. And nvidia can't produce more chips if their partners can't get rid of them. 

[Mr. Fox]

18 minutes ago, KING19 said:

Since every tech reviewer is crapping all over the RTX 4060 mind well add these too!.

 

 

When the reviewers are all calling foul it is definitely a time you want to pause and pay close attention. It is either true and the product is garbage that should be avoided; or, they are all part of a very carefully orchestrated conspiracy intended to cause harm to the subject under review, or its manufacturer. This is highly unlikely in the context of a product review. If that many say it is no good, or a poor value, then it is probably true. They have a lot to risk personally by presenting the unvarnished truth. Probably to an even greater degree with what they present in a negative light because--whether it is true or not--they want to portray an image of unbiased professionalism. Without that they have nothing to offer anyone. In a political or social popularity scenario where we find self-anointed thought police with an agenda, the latter is entirely possible or maybe even highly likely, because success of the agenda itself, not public opinion about the messenger, is the end game.