*Official Benchmark Thread* - Post it here or it didn't happen :D

[tps3443]

28 minutes ago, ryan said:

I feel overwhelmed by it as im not a hardcore gamer anymore this game is like the new crysis for me personally. I'm really enjoying it, the gun play reminds me of fallout 3. the story is pretty ok not super into it yet but I hear things get more interesting 20 hours in. im curious what the artifacts are and why they do what they do, and what the origins of them are.

 

I like exploring the worlds and seeing different scenes. I havent really been able to mine much as im just thinking now about how to get more credits, like should I be mining on mars or something and then where do I sell the metals I have alot left to figure out as far as the basics go, I was alot sharper and better at videogames in my younger years(illness).

 

but yes im really enjoying it and this is looking like the second game I beat since crysis. forza motorsport being the first and this being the second which says more than any review or perhaps its just a coincidence the game is holding my attention.

 

Im thinking of playing other games on my backlog like cyberpunk/witcher3/rdr2/and finishing gta v...might even give fallout and skyrim(modded) a chance. gaming can be rewarding much like solving a intricate puzzle or watching/reading an enthralling movie or book

 

and yes ive had some long sessions. 30min-3hours. I just played for an hour im just taking a break (playing tom petty-wont back down lol) absorbing what I watched in the game. they say we can only learn for 10 minutes at a time and a break after 10mins and reflection on the 10 mins is a good idea.

I’m still a noob at this too. Many new mechanics and things I really don’t understand. I would follow the main quest for a while (The main quest teaches some good fundamentals I thought), then you can kinda veer of course and side track for a bit. I’ve built up about 75K credits or so. I have loot/guns/junk/minerals just scattered all over the place. My ship, my person, my room in the lodge, my companions inventory. I’m quite new to mining, and I’m holding off on venturing in to that one. The missions alone pay well though. 
 

I would travel to Neon and do some side quest. It was a blast. I killed some gang, and started producing drugs for some drug dealer lol. Then I killed some random civilian who stole some of my stuff, and my companion Barrett very much disliked that, and took off to another world with all my good loot. 😂

[ryan]

I was told to check out RDR2, I have like 60 good games to play still and my hope is to play and finish all of them, I just have a short attention span. but yeah I am enjoying video gaming enough to say justify a 3080 purchase.

[Etern4l]

9 hours ago, electrosoft said:

You get the 7900xt with less vram and basically 3090 raster performance for a game which has sloppy Nvidia code and/or AMD optimizations (Sponsored by AMD)  just launched which will undoubtedly get refinements which could go...well...any which way. I would just wait a few months and see how things pan out patch/driver update wise THEN decide if you want to get a new GPU.

 

We can safely assume the game is as optimised as can be for AMD (whatever that involves, perhaps not much), however, we don't know if it's not optimised for NVidia, other than it doesn't use DLSS. I suspect this could be key.

 

FSR2 is designed to run on any GPU, therefore it probably does not utilise NVidia's tensor cores, hence the lower power draw, since that part of the GPU is inactive, and hence the lower framerate on NVidia, since now some standard CUDA cores have to be used for the upscaling etc.

 

Just a theory, but a decent one if I may say so myself 🙂 If I'm right then then we will see some speedup on NVidia cards if and when Bethesda implements DLSS. Now, I've heard that there are some unofficial DLSS patches/hacks, but we don't know how well those work vs proper implementation.

 

BTW this would also point out to how power consuming DLSS is, for no significant improvement in image quality over FSR2. We can see that with the very similar video upscaling technology - upscaling a 30 fps video takes up half of my 3090Ti lol. Sells beefy GPUs though, another brilliant AI move from Jensen&Co. 
 

To be fair it”s worth noting that the 4090 is still the fastest card in Starfield at 4K, despite the possible handicap. The 5% boost from GDDR6X helps.

 

I stress that it”s just a theory. Maybe FSR2 does utilise tensor cores, it’s just much more efficient. That would be quite embarrassing for NVidia. 

[ryan]

I was thinking the dlss mod is broken.  people say it looks better and however doesn't improve performance. I saw a video on youtube and it doesn't look like it does anything. people were getting 51-52fps without and 51-52 with. I say we should be patient and wait for the official release of DLSS. typically DLSS bumps performance by as much as 20 percent. In games like crysis remastered I go from 40-50 to 68-78 with dlss

[cylix]

 

1 hour ago, Etern4l said:

 

We can safely assume the game is as optimised as can be for AMD (whatever that involves, perhaps not much), however, we don't know if it's not optimised for NVidia, other than it doesn't use DLSS. I suspect this could be key.

 

FSR2 is designed to run on any GPU, therefore it probably does not utilise NVidia's tensor cores, hence the lower power draw, since that part of the GPU is inactive, and hence the lower framerate on NVidia, since now some standard CUDA cores have to be used for the upscaling etc.

 

Just a theory, but a decent one if I may say so myself 🙂 If I'm right then then we will see some speedup on NVidia cards if and when Bethesda implements DLSS. Now, I've heard that there are some unofficial DLSS patches/hacks, but we don't know how well those work vs proper implementation.

 

BTW this would also point out to how power consuming DLSS is, for no significant improvement in image quality over FSR2. We can see that with the very similar video upscaling technology - upscaling a 30 fps video takes up half of my 3090Ti lol. Sells beefy GPUs though, another brilliant AI move from Jensen&Co. 
 

To be fair it”s worth noting that the 4090 is still the fastest card in Starfield at 4K, despite the possible handicap.

 

I stress that it”s just a theory. Maybe FSR2 does utilise tensor cores, it’s just much more efficient. That would be quite embarrassing for NVidia. 

 Didnt you all not heard what Master Todd said? Game is super optimized you just need to update to 4090 and Co, better yet 5090 🤣🤣. What a tool, like we can expect from a snake

 

 

[ryan]

25 minutes ago, cylix said:

Game is super optimized you just need to update to 4090 and Co, better yet 5090

I saw that on my news feed, unreal what a jerk/ seriously needs to get fired. its like buying a tesla and the auto drive is malfunctioning

 

elon replies just buy a plaid instead of a S next time

[Etern4l]

56 minutes ago, ryan said:

I was thinking the dlss mod is broken.  people say it looks better and however doesn't improve performance. I saw a video on youtube and it doesn't look like it does anything. people were getting 51-52fps without and 51-52 with. I say we should be patient and wait for the official release of DLSS. typically DLSS bumps performance by as much as 20 percent. In games like crysis remastered I go from 40-50 to 68-78 with dlss

It’s a bit different than Crysis with and without DLSS, because Starfield already uses FSR2. So the question is what would be the effect of using proper DLSS instead of FSR2 on NVidia. Power draw would likely go up, but would FPS? My guess is: probably, but not as much as going from pure rendering to DLSS.
 

@cylixYeah, Todd doesn’t impress me either. His presence at the top explains a lot.

[ryan]

true, good point. I think the need is to bump the IQ a notch or two, FSR2 isn't exactly a sight for sore eyes but its not exactly 'pretty'. I welcome it but if it doesn't bump performance over native by 20 percent im not going to be using it and alot of other fellow gamers will follow suite with similar conclusions, alot of people don't like the soft image DLSS brings to the table.

 

dlss in IQ terms is alot like optical zoom versus digital zoom. compare a 10x s21 image to a 10x image on a iphone although AI does a good job narrowing the gap clearly 10x(native) looks better(clearer,more detail) than 2x(10x digital/dlss)/end idea

 

dlss vs native picture comparison - Bing images

 

if people cared about only performance there would only be performance/low settings and no sliders for higher IQ. people care and I think the fact DLSS does such a good job at retaining the big picture people want it. 

[Papusan]

14 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Does it require paying a monthly fee to Micro$lop for GamePass access?

We are flooded with subscriptions. And the prices go up well beyond inflation. For Norway. 17 and up above 25%. Not only Jensen is greedy. 

 

Use translator 

https://www.tek.no/nyheter/nyhet/i/Q7Akqx/saa-mye-dyrere-blir-playstation-plus-i-norge?utm_source=vgfront&utm_content=hovedlopet_row12_pos1&utm_medium=dre-64fadabcbd42b7a6c9f5f31a

 

Btw. Intel graphics got no love. 
 

According to Bethesda's support team, PC players playing Starfield using an Intel ARC GPU might have problems running the game as Intel's GPUs don't meet Starfield's minimum system requirements.

 

I wonder how it feels being screwed with an not so old graphics card. They still sell them on web stores. But probably a good graphics card for only showing up desktop and connecting more screens. Why not call it a screen card and not graphics cards?

 

https://wccftech.com/bethesda-intel-arc-gpus-starfield-requirements/

 

The message from Bethesda Support reads. "Since you do not meet the minimum system requirements for running this game, the troubleshooting steps we can provide are limited, as some troubleshooting steps “could potentially cause damage to your system”.

 

As covered yesterday, Bethesda's Starfield Director Todd Howard said that the team optimized for PC, and those claiming this isn't the case, should consider upgrading their system.  "We did, it's running great", Howard said when asked in an interview about PC optimizations. "It is a next-generation PC game.

 

 I wonder what the Steam gamer kids with 4060/4060Ti @8GB cards will be told when the cards being 1.5 years from now. Nvidia,Intel, M$, Game devs and AMD offer planned obsolescence. You shouldn’t have your hardware longer than max two years cadence. 

[Etern4l]

51 minutes ago, Papusan said:

We are flooded with subscriptions. And the prices go up well beyond inflation. For Norway. 17 and up above 25%. Not only Jensen is greedy. 

 

Use translator 

https://www.tek.no/nyheter/nyhet/i/Q7Akqx/saa-mye-dyrere-blir-playstation-plus-i-norge?utm_source=vgfront&utm_content=hovedlopet_row12_pos1&utm_medium=dre-64fadabcbd42b7a6c9f5f31a

 

Btw. Intel graphics got no love. 
 

According to Bethesda's support team, PC players playing Starfield using an Intel ARC GPU might have problems running the game as Intel's GPUs don't meet Starfield's minimum system requirements.

 

I wonder how it feels being screwed with an not so old graphics card. They still sell them on web stores. But probably a good graphics card for only showing up desktop and connecting more screens. Why not call it a screen card and not graphics cards?

 

https://wccftech.com/bethesda-intel-arc-gpus-starfield-requirements/

 

The message from Bethesda Support reads. "Since you do not meet the minimum system requirements for running this game, the troubleshooting steps we can provide are limited, as some troubleshooting steps “could potentially cause damage to your system”.

 

This Startfield GPU support has Azor's AMD deal written all over it.

The support response from Bethesda will look familiar to any Alienware customer.

 

It’s a 16 GB card, it should work. The correct reply would have been “Dear customer, sorry, Intel GPUs are not supported at this time, we are working on a patch”. Or maybe it’s just Bethesda being Bethesda through and through.

[Papusan]

1 hour ago, Etern4l said:

 

This Startfield GPU support has Azor's AMD deal written all over it.

The support response from Bethesda will look familiar to any Alienware customer.

 

It’s a 16 GB card, it should work. The correct reply would have been “Dear customer, sorry, Intel GPUs are not supported at this time, we are working on a patch”. Or maybe it’s just Bethesda being Bethesda through and through.

They all will have a bit of the big cake. 
Bethesda is now a M$ company. All this was doomed to happen. Will be nice seeing Intel’s response on this mess…. You can play the game with Nvidia card from 2015/16 but not newer modern graphics cards. New/newer has to be better bro @ryan
 

 

nvidia bad? Say hello to AMD.

 

First, second, and third priority are around AI, AI, AI. Over the last thirty days, what we’ve seen is a continued acceleration of engagements.

-AMD's CEO Lisa Su via Barrons

https://wccftech.com/amd-ceo-lisa-su-reiterates-ai-priority-forecasts-150-billion-revenue-by-2027/

 

Jensen promised cheap good gaming experiences with nvidia. Yep, before he became rich 

https://wccftech.com/nvidia-jensen-huang-sells-over-42-million-worth-of-shares/

 

Huang has sold NVIDIA shares worth $42.828 million since the start of September.

[Etern4l]

43 minutes ago, Papusan said:

They all will have a bit of the big cake. 
Bethesda is now a M$ company. All this was doomed to happen. Will be nice seeing Intel’s response on this mess…. You can play the game with Nvidia card from 2015/16 but not newer modern graphics cards. New has to be better bro @ryan
 

 

nvidia bad? Say hello to AMD.

 

First, second, and third priority are around AI, AI, AI. Over the last thirty days, what we’ve seen is a continued acceleration of engagements.

-AMD's CEO Lisa Su via Barrons

https://wccftech.com/amd-ceo-lisa-su-reiterates-ai-priority-forecasts-150-billion-revenue-by-2027/

 

Jensen promised cheap good gaming experiences with nvidia. Yep, before he became rich 

https://wccftech.com/nvidia-jensen-huang-sells-over-42-million-worth-of-shares/

 

Huang has sold NVIDIA shares worth $42.828 million since the start of September.

That’s just hush money for his stripper gfs/bfs. His shares are worth literally 1000x more. It’s obscene.

 

Google, MS, Meta, Amazon and NVidia themselves are the primary players and culprits behind the push for AI. AMD and Intel are just playing catchup. Strategic thinking and pushback from the people is the only way to clamp down on this, although as we know this is in short supply and the grand plan is to replace people”s thinking with AI anyway.

[Papusan]

27 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

That’s just hush money for his stripper gfs/bfs. His shares are worth literally 1000x more.

 

Google, MS, Meta, Amazon and NVidia themselves are the primary players and culprits behind the push for AI. AMD and Intel are just playing catchup. Strategic thinking and pushback from the people is the only way to clamp down on this, although as we know this is in short supply and the grand plan is to replace people”s thinking with AI anyway.

I wonder how many 4060/4060Ti chips nvidia will burn in with. 7700XT was expected to fail. Hope AMD can produce loads of 7800XT’s

 

https://www.pcgamer.com/early-numbers-indicate-amds-7800-xt-gpu-is-a-hit-the-7700-xt-not-so-much/

 

Yup, but both intel and AMD will gear up forwards. Nvidia have enough chips but the packaging problems hamper them 1.5 years forwards. This problem won’t affect gamer cards. Burning In with mid range gamer cards that struggle to sell is what I hope for. But AMD needs to deliver. You can’t rely on Intel for graphics cards now. They are useless as of now. Smart move from AMD, game devs and Azor. They have done their homework pretty well. Pushing Intel into the cold. Hope Intel finds out of this and hit back. 

[Etern4l]

55 minutes ago, Papusan said:

I wonder how many 4060/4060Ti chips nvidia will burn in with. 7700XT was expected to fail. Hope AMD can produce loads of 7800XT’s

 

https://www.pcgamer.com/early-numbers-indicate-amds-7800-xt-gpu-is-a-hit-the-7700-xt-not-so-much/

 

Yup, but both intel and AMD will gear up forwards. Nvidia have enough chips but the packaging problems hamper them 1.5 years forwards. This problem won’t affect gamer cards. Burning In with mid range gamer cards that struggle to sell is what I hope for. But AMD needs to deliver. You can’t rely on Intel for graphics cards now. They are useless as of now. Smart move from AMD, game devs and Azor. They have done their homework pretty well. Pushing Intel into the cold. Hope Intel finds out of this and hit back. 

I wouldn’t overestimate the impact of this. It’s just one game, and yes - an aggressive play by AMD but I wonder if it won’t backfire, especially on Bethesda who look like sucky devs here. it’s possible that hey simply needed the money to finish the admittedly ambitious in scale game. It’s an extremely tough industry, with people getting worked to the ground in year-long crunches.
 

As for Team Red, I would argue that instead of spending money on Azor and his dodgy deals, they should have just put the money in their software division.

 

Also why is it the case that the game doesn’t work on Arc? Probably some driver issue Intel can address on their end.

[Mr. Fox]

16 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

I wouldn’t overestimate the impact of this. It’s just one game, and yes and aggressive play by AMD but I wonder if it won’t backfire. I would argue that instead of spending money on Azor and his dodgy deals, they should have just put the money in their software division.

 

Also why is it the case that the game doesn’t work on Arc? Probably some driver issue Intel can address on their end.

Yeah probably will turn out to be nothing but a driver update is needed to fix it. Arc owners are no stranger to that or the massive improvements that have followed after a period of anticipation. What would be hilarious, if it happens, is seeing Arc video cards outperforming competing products.  If the dirty pool shenanigan with DLSS is a barometer, this was an intentional act and could be the first of more to follow. Being shrewd is a positive attribute, but malicious and anti-competitive behavior should not be mistaken as being anything else. 

[Papusan]

2 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Yeah probably will turn out to be nothing but a driver update is needed to fix it. Arc owners are no stranger to that or the massive improvements that have followed after a period of anticipation. What would be hilarious, if it happens, is seeing Arc video cards outperforming competing products.  If the dirty pool shenanigan with DLSS is a barometer, this was an intentional act and could be the first of more to follow. Being shrewd is a positive attribute, but malicious and anti-competitive behavior should not be mistaken as being anything else. 

The question will be… How much work will Intel put into this mess if their audience is business? From my previous link from Tomshardware. They’ll try but maybe don’t expect miracles due how it already works. I still think this graphics card will need tuning months forwards. And game dev can continue tune the game opposite way of what to expect with Arc graphics. Aka damage control by AMD and their partner Bethesda. I may play the devil’s advocate here but I don’t trust what’s happening in tech world. And I’m not naive and have followed tech industry the last +two decades. Have seen too much disgusting. 

 

Also still MIA: Intel Arc Alchemist. Those have been out for over a year now, at least in some parts of the world. So far, neither the desktop nor mobile Arc variants have made an appearance on the Steam survey, despite nabbing a fairly significant chunk of the global GPU market according to JPR. Maybe all of those Arc GPUs are ending up in business PCs?

 

Yup. Nvidia still needs some sales to the gamers. If they can’t deliver on AI then they need a place to throw away their geforce gaming chips. This tech doesn’t need same packaging technology. And nvidia, Intel and AMD have enough chips for the gamer jockey’s. Buy with your head. Not with your heart if you’re an gamer.
 

https://www.techspot.com/news/100084-ai-gpu-accelerators-short-supply-two-more-years.html

 

Speaking with Nikkei, TSMC chairman Mark Liu said that the AI accelerator shortage isn't caused by a lack of AI chips designed by Nvidia. The current market situation mostly depends on TSMC's own limited capacity with CoWoS packaging.

 

In short they still need the gamers. 
 

They all are greedy —- devils

[Etern4l]

2 hours ago, Papusan said:

The question will be… How much work will Intel put into this mess if their audience is business? From my previous link from Tomshardware. They’ll try but maybe don’t expect miracles due how it already works. I still think this graphics card will need tuning months forwards. And game dev can continue tune the game opposite way of what to expect with Arc graphics. Aka damage control by AMD and their partner Bethesda. I may play the devil’s advocate here but I don’t trust what’s happening in tech world. And I’m not naive and have followed tech industry the last +two decades. Have seen too much disgusting. 

 

Also still MIA: Intel Arc Alchemist. Those have been out for over a year now, at least in some parts of the world. So far, neither the desktop nor mobile Arc variants have made an appearance on the Steam survey, despite nabbing a fairly significant chunk of the global GPU market according to JPR. Maybe all of those Arc GPUs are ending up in business PCs?

 

Yup. Nvidia still needs some sales to the gamers. If they can’t deliver on AI then they need a place to throw away their geforce gaming chips. This tech doesn’t need same packaging technology. And nvidia, Intel and AMD have enough chips for the gamer jockey’s. Buy with your head. Not with your heart if you’re an gamer.
 

https://www.techspot.com/news/100084-ai-gpu-accelerators-short-supply-two-more-years.html

 

Speaking with Nikkei, TSMC chairman Mark Liu said that the AI accelerator shortage isn't caused by a lack of AI chips designed by Nvidia. The current market situation mostly depends on TSMC's own limited capacity with CoWoS packaging.

 

In short they still need the gamers. 
 

They all are greedy —- devils

 

Very interesting, so this CoWoS is not needed for gaming chips? Yep, that would explain why they are being offered to the market at all.

[Papusan]

39 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

 

Very interesting, so this CoWoS is not needed for gaming chips? Yep, that would explain why they are being offered to the market at all.

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/nvidia-could-possibly-tap-into-tsmcs-cowos-packaging-for-next-generation-gpus

 

Would be a disaster if this was the only solution for all chips. Gamers would be kicked out first. 

[electrosoft]

22 hours ago, Papusan said:

I don’t want support this with my money. Nope. Not me. And AMD try always follow Nvidia’s prices. Yep, slightly lower but if they have the chance they will do as they did with Ryzen 9 5950X. First mainstream processor matching $800 due no competition. They are not any better than Nvidia. Greedy bastards that aren’t willing to try be on top. Just tune prices so high they can vs what they offer. And what with the performance uplift for some of their SKUs. 3-5% above it’s predecessor two years ago. A joke! And the last nail… I won’t support help paying Fu. Azor’s paycheck. Nope. Not me.

 

Yup. No in hell I support Azor. More than good enough reason to avoid AMD.

 

Value and Conclusion

Only small gen-over-gen performance improvement.

but AMD has placed a non-functional dummy die here instead, to provide structural stability.

 

• Oc’ing
  From here on slowly reduce maximum voltage until your card becomes unstable running benchmarks or games. Undervolting is a must for RDNA3, because that will free up some power headroom for the clock algorithm to push frequencies higher. These cards typically get unstable around 950 mV, so there's a lot of headroom (the default is 1.15 V).
•  

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/powercolor-radeon-rx-7800-xt-hellhound/40.html

 

 

Yep, I always said AMD is no different and if they were in control of the Golden Rule they would extract as much value out of their products as possible as we saw with AM4 and 5950x pricing. If they suddenly had the dominant GPU, those prices would go through the roof.

 

Brett sums it up nicely here (timestamped for your convenience):

 

 

 

 

 

[Papusan]

12 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

 

Yep, I always said AMD is no different and if they were in control of the Golden Rule they would extract as much value out of their products as possible as we saw with AM4 and 5950x pricing. If they suddenly had the dominant GPU, those prices would go through the roof.

 

Brett sums it up nicely here (timestamped for your convenience):

 

 

 

 

 

Nice see people see tech the same way as me and a few others. But mostly people are blinded by own stupidity or fanboyism. This was spot on. Thanks for showing this to all others 🙂

[Etern4l]

2 hours ago, electrosoft said:

 

Yep, I always said AMD is no different and if they were in control of the Golden Rule they would extract as much value out of their products as possible as we saw with AM4 and 5950x pricing. If they suddenly had the dominant GPU, those prices would go through the roof.

 

Brett sums it up nicely here (timestamped for your convenience):

 

 

 

 

 

That was never quite in question. Those presumably NVidia sponsored influencers are just trying to misdirect us here. The underlying issue is the market dominance - we don’t want NVidia or any other company to be in that position, or they will obviously abuse it.

 

There is no point worrying about what AMD, never mind Intel, would do if they achieved a dominant position in the GPU market, they are nowhere near that point. Right now NVidia is way ahead in gaming (taking into account hardware and software), and enjoying almost strict monopoly on the compute side. The optimal state does not involve another company taking their place, but more than one company offering comparable products in every segment - this would automatically optimise prices as well, unless they tried to form a cartel, which is a criminal offence / felony for any individual involved (unless they are in OPEC lol).

[Papusan]

On 9/7/2023 at 8:05 PM, Talon said:

 

It actually blows my mind that people are still using those adapters. Seriously, how much more proof do you need they're defective and ticking time bombs. The only cards I see having melting or burning issues today are the ones using those 90 degree adapters. Just use the stock Nvidia crazy fingers or get a custom cable and be done with it. I've been using my CableMod cables in 3x systems since launch, no issues. But @Papusancould write a book on the amount of these adapters that have burned up. 

What could it be? Is stupidity an form for dangerous sickness? Can it be fixed?  Or do they have to live with it the whole life? If so, any medicine/medication that works?
 

Read “I have no idea”.😳
 

 

[electrosoft]

4 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

That was never quite in question. Those presumably NVidia sponsored influencers are just trying to misdirect us here. The underlying issue is the market dominance - we don’t want NVidia or any other company to be in that position, or they will obviously abuse it.

 

There is no point worrying about what AMD, never mind Intel, would do if they achieved a dominant position in the GPU market, they are nowhere near that point. Right now NVidia is way ahead in gaming (taking into account hardware and software), and enjoying almost strict monopoly on the compute side. The optimal state does not involve another company taking their place, but more than one company offering comparable products in every segment - this would automatically optimise prices as well, unless they tried to form a cartel, which is a criminal offence/ felony (unless it’s OPEC lol).

 

Right now, Nvidia is king. You are seeking some type of rule, competition or consumerism to thwart them pricing their items as they see fit?

 

Rule = I definitely do not want the government stepping in unless they are breaking a known law or a true monopoly. Having ~80% market share isn't it.

Competition = Tell AMD and Intel to step up their game. It isn't Nvidia's fault they are still so behind.

Consumerism = We've covered this already. Free will and buyers can buy what they want based upon their own criteria. A buyer is free to purchase from any of the three or just go buy a console.

 

The market is working as intended.

 

They don't have a monopoly simply because they have the superior product. What they do have is superior market share because of their superior products.

 

Now, if we find out they are using strong arm tactics like Intel did years ago to try and thwart AMD from being sold by Dell and other OEMS/VARS or similar thug like actions, that's another story and is completely unacceptable and they should be punished appropriately.

 

[Etern4l]

1 hour ago, electrosoft said:

You are seeking some type of rule, competition or consumerism to thwart them pricing their items as they see fit?

 

No, and I stated that explicitly earlier at least once before. In this particular case, the only way to achieve that balance without state intervention is for people to make strategic purchases in support for the underdogs, if possible. If you don't, you are adopting a myopic/greedy strategy which will reinforce the status quo. That's it. If not for people like @Raiderman, AMD's GPU business would have been dead long ago.  

 

1 hour ago, electrosoft said:

The market is working as intended.

 

As intended by whom exactly? What kind of idiots would intend for one company to gain basically 95% of the overall GPU market (compute + gaming)? It is an effective monopoly, and a market without a meaningful competition is broken.

 

I guess that's why you do have antitrust regulations, although they probably have too little teeth to grab NVidia yet, and what would they do anyway? Split the company? Controversial and brute force, but it could come to that.

 

1 hour ago, electrosoft said:

 

They don't have a monopoly simply because they have the superior product. What they do have is superior market share because of their superior products.

 

They don't have a strict monopoly in gaming, but they do have a lion's share (80% or so), and they do have an effective monopoly on the compute side.

 

Yes, they have technically superior products, but they also have most cash to spend on further R&D, they have patents, they have talent, there are potentially deals with developers requiring them to favour their GPUs.

 

I'm worried you have insufficient concept of how difficult it is to compete in this business, and how easy it is for the dominant player to thwart opponents, and this semiconductor sector is particularly crazy. It's not as easy as saying "make better products, then we will buy them". It's not a market some XVIII century theorist could have remotely imagined.

 

1 hour ago, electrosoft said:

 

Now, if we find out they are using strong arm tactics like Intel did years ago to try and thwart AMD from being sold by Dell and other OEMS/VARS or similar thug like actions, that's another story and is completely unacceptable and they should be punished appropriately.

 

Well yes, so that's a very interesting topic, unfortunately those things rarely come to light. How many games support DLSS, and how many support the AMD equivalent, and why is that exactly? I wonder what percentages of games support upscaling technologies from: 1. NVidia, 2. AMD, 3. both.

 

What about deals with OEMs preventing or limiting their use of competing GPUs?

[Mr. Fox]

1 hour ago, electrosoft said:

 

Right now, Nvidia is king. You are seeking some type of rule, competition or consumerism to thwart them pricing their items as they see fit?

 

Rule = I definitely do not want the government stepping in unless they are breaking a known law or a true monopoly. Having ~80% market share isn't it.

Competition = Tell AMD and Intel to step up their game. It isn't Nvidia's fault they are still so behind.

Consumerism = We've covered this already. Free will and buyers can buy what they want based upon their own criteria. A buyer is free to purchase from any of the three or just go buy a console.

 

The market is working as intended.

 

They don't have a monopoly simply because they have the superior product. What they do have is superior market share because of their superior products.

 

Now, if we find out they are using strong arm tactics like Intel did years ago to try and thwart AMD from being sold by Dell and other OEMS/VARS or similar thug like actions, that's another story and is completely unacceptable and they should be punished appropriately.

 

Spot on. 

 

Less government involvement means a better outcome. There can be some degree of benefit to government control but the cons outweigh the pros. Best to the let market (people buying) decide what works and what doesn't. The government (any government) will just screw things up for the majority, stifle growth and deincentivise innovation. We are currently seeing and experiencing the pain and grief of what happens when government takes too much control of business and it's never good.  They need to focus on protecting and serving, and leave command and control up to the free market. "Less is more" applies to a lot of things, but it is especially true of government and regulatory interference in private matters, business or money-related scenarios.