*Official Benchmark Thread* - Post it here or it didn't happen :D

[electrosoft]

5 minutes ago, Papusan said:

 

Yup, those premium stages may help if you x-flash Galax 660W vbios. But for gaming... They don't help much. With no XOC/Galax vbios you can just buy whatever float your boat. 

 

Same with new modern motherboards. They are overbuilt to max out profits. Solder on $50 more expensive components then charge the tripple of the add3d extra cost. 

 

I do/did like having them flashing and testing beefier vBIOS's though that's true. For MBs, even the lower end MSI PRO line can handle a lot of overclocking for 13th and 14th gen and before. I ran their PRO models for 10th and 11th and the chips gave out way before the VRMs.

 

That video does beg the question why he didn't send it in under warranty? And more importantly, why he didn't use an anti-sag bracket of some sort?

 

[Papusan]

7 hours ago, electrosoft said:

 

I do/did like having them flashing and testing beefier vBIOS's though that's true. For MBs, even the lower end MSI PRO line can handle a lot of overclocking for 13th and 14th gen and before. I ran their PRO models for 10th and 11th and the chips gave out way before the VRMs.

 

That video does beg the question why he didn't send it in under warranty? And more importantly, why he didn't use an anti-sag bracket of some sort?

 

 

Maybe stolen gods. Or he got limited warranty.... https://www.msi.com/page/warranty

 

Or bought it from a region that doesn't offer/fulfill same warranty. And up to the person follow up and push for free repair. Remember not all people/buyers are born equal.

MSI won't honor warranty because Newegg shipped from....

 

On 1/31/2024 at 9:27 PM, Papusan said:

Also this time you  can see Asus fail deliver with their best binned flagship custom Strix OC cards. Can't even beat their cheaper cards (see the cheaper TUF OC offer higher boost clock than the flagship). Yup, pay more... Get less. The modern tech trend continue. And Asus prefer go in front.

 

ASUS GeForce RTX 4080 Super STRIX OC Review

 

 

 

Here as well. Asus flagship fail takeing the performance crown for 4080 Super. What's wrong with Asus bro @Mr. Fox? Greedy or they don't bother find the best silicon for their overpriced flagship graphics cards? Or can it be both? From 9:50

 

 

 

Nvidia tricks the consumers....Bastards. From what I know... Our old friend the salesman F. Azor still is a part of AMDs GPU team. So it has to be scummy people in both the Green and the Red camp. 

 

 

Not everyday you see double triple meltdown. Not only the 12+4 plug melt. Also old fashion 8-pin connectors. So also the PSU need to be swapped out. Yup, pretty with white. Now Alienware lunar White colored cable😁 

 

Could it be due EVGA, user errors or Cablemod? Hmmm, I wonder how it smells with triple meltdown.

 

 

 

Warning: CableMod E-Series Pro ModMesh Sleeved Cable Melting Issue - MSI Suprim X 4090 Users Beware!

[ssj92]

Sorry all, been out of the loop for awhile. 

 

Anyone here running a W790 + Xeon 2495x or similar setup? 🙃

[jaybee83]

9 hours ago, Papusan said:

 

See/listening from... 8:23 - Or from 8:45 😑

 

Msi RTX 4090 Suprim X. Premium Graphics cards are nothing special. 

 

 

Regarding shuddy/questionable quality. Will EK's new direct die AIO fail equal hard as their EK Direct Die custom water block? 

 

EK Direct Die AiO CPU cooler yields ‘impressive results’ - 13900KS temperatures can be 20 degrees better than air cooler (both tested with liquid metal)...

 

https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/cooling/ek-direct-die-aio-cpu-cooler-yields-impressive-results-13900ks-temperatures-can-be-20-degrees-better-than-stock

 

9 hours ago, electrosoft said:

 

Ohhhh, look at all those extra premium stages! MSI over-engineering at its best. 🙂

 

"As you can imagine PREMIUM and CHEAP get damaged in the same way" -NWR

 

Seriously though, with the way 4090s went, I can see the logic buying a $1600 MSRP model and calling it a day and avoiding over priced HOF, MSI and Asus cards unless you specifically are targeting a particular model for personal reasons.

 

 

 

hey, stop hating on my 4090! *cries in 1kw XOC vbios* 😛 

[Etern4l]

On 2/3/2024 at 7:03 PM, electrosoft said:

Or leave free will and choice in place as there are plenty who can just choose not to use P2W, purchase cosmetics or walk away when they want / limit gaming time which is exactly what I do. 
(truncating)

Well, the problem is that our flawed “free will” can be seriously messed up by the various products available legally and illegally on the market. The addicted will often attempt to rationalise their behaviour away, by claiming that the harmful behaviour is their choice, and they would actually be correct: their messed up neural circuits tell them “this is the way to feel great, proceed”. Unfortunately, that is not rational behaviour anymore.

 

As for whether to regulate something or not, I suggest it would be best to leave any dogma at the door, and review on a  case-by-case basis. For example: I don’t partake (yay, good for me!), but I would not be selfish enough to suggest that the substances should be freely available, given the gross inherent danger. That’s an easy one though, as there are no long term upsides to anyone taking them. Still, this is actually a nice little case study which can be used as a reductio ad absurdum treatment for naive neoliberalism. This is certainly not the thread for that, though, and in general it seems we just dump too much stuff here. I would suggest you open a new off-topic such as “Neo-liberalism: Still way forward in 2024?” and I shall oblige you further there 🙂 

 

BTW the gambling regulations of reference earlier are mostly there the protect children. I think there was some action against random lootboxes in Belgium and one other country. That said adults can get messed up by that stuff as well. What’s the upside for the society? EA gets to make more money? Is that it?

 

As for, the 3090 KP question, I’m aware of the various scenarios, I was mostly curious what actual setups he compared. To say “OC” is meaningless, could have been a light stock vbios OC, custom vbios, 1kW setup etc. Also curious about the huge difference in fps between his numbers and what TPU reported. I was wondering if that was with RT enabled in W3 for example.

[Mr. Fox]

7 hours ago, jaybee83 said:

 

 

hey, stop hating on my 4090! *cries in 1kw XOC vbios* 😛 

I chose the Suprim specifically because it has more power phases for core and memory, and better quality components for the VRMs than the other 4090s (excluding Galax HOF). It is built better than the Strix or the FE, which are second and third, respectively.

 

None of that is going to keep a GPU from failing due to improper installation and allowing the GPU to twist or hang in the slot without proper support. They all have a PCB that fits into the PCIe slot, so they can't make it thicker than the slot allows. The heavier the GPU is, the more likely it is to end up with torn pads on memory ICs and under the GPU core. Supporting the weight of it to prevent twisting and flexing of the PCB is essential. Failure is likely and predictable if these measures are not taken.

[Etern4l]

On 2/3/2024 at 9:19 PM, Mr. Fox said:

 

Looks like the 4080 Super is going to be as scarce as the 4090. Sold out everywhere other than the dishonest Amazon scalpers ready to screw anyone dumb enough to fall for it. There was a PNY 4080S for $999 that the seller has jacked the price up $150, probably because he saw his peers are screwing the Amazon customers irrational enough to pay more than MSRP for a GPU. They're basically selling 4080S for the 4090 MSRP. Seems there is never a shortage of stupid people willing to act like an idiot with their wallets. It isn't "what the market bears" so much as what morons are willing to allow scalpers to get away with.

 

Like Forest Gump said...

 

Scalpers are scumbags, but fortunately in this market they primarily get the vulnerable people who for some reason are seeking to buy a product at launch, made by a company known for paper launches and other inventory shenanigans such as NVidia. We know that with the more desirable NVidia products there won’t be enough cards on day 1, and probably not in the first month or so. Hopefully, relatively few people actually are (or willingly put themselves in) a position to need that.

I already see some 4080S in stock at around 1k BTW.

 

On 2/4/2024 at 2:32 AM, Papusan said:

You don't need to understand everything that happen now in the tech world 🙂

The suggestion that kids “intuitively understand” technology is ridiculous. They can intuitively use it, if they have been exposed to it from the young age, but they tend to have a limited if any understanding of what’s actually going on. 

* Does a kid doomscrolling through social media understand why they are doing so?

* Does a kid playing Roblox instead of doing their homework understand why they find the former far more interesting?

* Does a kid grinding to farm more loot boxes in an online game understand why they are compelled to do so?

 

The answer is obviously 3x “no” in most cases. Now, do the parents know the answers ? Some do, but most probably don’t either. 
The challenge is to get educated as much as possible and help the kids, ideally leading by example, otherwise they are at a risk of becoming technoslaves. Perhaps the saddest situation would be knowing what’s going on and still losing the battle like Cipher:

 

[electrosoft]

1 hour ago, Mr. Fox said:

I chose the Suprim specifically because it has more power phases for core and memory, and better quality components for the VRMs than the other 4090s (excluding Galax HOF). It is built better than the Strix or the FE, which are second and third, respectively.

 

None of that is going to keep a GPU from failing due to improper installation and allowing the GPU to twist or hang in the slot without proper support. They all have a PCB that fits into the PCIe slot, so they can't make it thicker than the slot allows. The heavier the GPU is, the more likely it is to end up with torn pads on memory ICs and under the GPU core. Supporting the weight of it to prevent twisting and flexing of the PCB is essential. Failure is likely and predictable if these measures are not taken.

 

Ditto, the stages and the design for myself (I know you couldn't wait to rip that air cooler off as fast as possible and block it 🙂 ).

 

With the various vBIOS's floating around but overall limitations, the only thing I like about the HOF more are the dual 12vhpwr connectors and that's about it but I wish more cards came with them. Unfortunately having seen many results from the HOF posted over the last year, it seems even those aren't really "binned" and you can still get a dud that won't do 3100+ OC'd or even 2800+ out of box.

 

I started using sag brackets starting with the Aorus Master 3070 as it was the first real "chonker" of a card I encountered. I've used them for most since. I tend to run my GPU power cables from the top of the card vs the bottom as that also gives them a little more support or at worst doesn't add to the pulling down of the card.

 

The fact that entire PCB was twisted in that repair video speaks volumes.

 

 

[jaybee83]

5 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

I chose the Suprim specifically because it has more power phases for core and memory, and better quality components for the VRMs than the other 4090s (excluding Galax HOF). It is built better than the Strix or the FE, which are second and third, respectively.

 

None of that is going to keep a GPU from failing due to improper installation and allowing the GPU to twist or hang in the slot without proper support. They all have a PCB that fits into the PCIe slot, so they can't make it thicker than the slot allows. The heavier the GPU is, the more likely it is to end up with torn pads on memory ICs and under the GPU core. Supporting the weight of it to prevent twisting and flexing of the PCB is essential. Failure is likely and predictable if these measures are not taken.

 

yup, 100% same decision base and why i switched from my initial plan to get the trash boat zotac airo extreme to the suprim x. 

 

word on the 2nd paragraph.

[Mr. Fox]

4 hours ago, Etern4l said:

I already see some 4080S in stock at around 1k BTW.

Maybe in UK, but the only place you can find them in the US is from eBay and Amazon scalpers charging 125-150% of MSRP. You can pre-order from BLT or Provantage and wait an undisclosed period of time for the manufacturer to ship it, but otherwise there is no stock.

4 hours ago, electrosoft said:

With the various vBIOS's floating around but overall limitations, the only thing I like about the HOF more are the dual 12vhpwr connectors and that's about it but I wish more cards came with them. Unfortunately having seen many results from the HOF posted over the last year, it seems even those aren't really "binned" and you can still get a dud that won't do 3100+ OC'd or even 2800+ out of box.

The dual 12VHPWR is the best thing about it. It should be standard for all brands on 4080 S and 4090. It would have likely eliminated the melting connector problem almost entirely unless both connectors where not properly seated. It's unfortunate that Galax charge a lot and sell inferior silicon samples. I'd go a step further and call it unethical. Overclocking is the only reason to buy one, and if it doesn't deliver on the reason you bought it, then... well... you got screwed. Real bad.

54 minutes ago, jaybee83 said:

yup, 100% same decision base and why i switched from my initial plan to get the trash boat zotac airo extreme to the suprim x. 

Unique aesthetics aside, AIRO Extreme has more phases than the average 4090 and is a better product than the typical gamerboy GPU.  The Trinity is the gamerboy Zotac GPU. It's no better than an entry level MSI, Gigabyte or PNY card.

 

For just playing games, or doing other normal everyday things that use a GPU, the build quality doesn't matter as long as it meets NVIDIA's minimum spec standards. The effectiveness of the air cooler and how much coil whine you have to deal with is probably the only thing that distinguishes one versus another for normal daily use scenarios. The majority are just belly-button GPUs and all of them have gimped firmware.

[Etern4l]

19 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Maybe in UK, but the only place you can find them in the US is from eBay and Amazon scalpers charging 125-150% of MSRP. 

That’s quite strange. Checked again and a fair amount of stock, even on Amazon which normally is more of a scalpers’ den. This could be due to a number of reasons:

* Less demand in the UK - the country has been on a continuing downward trajectory since Brexit, virtually everyone has gotten poorer, and now Putin’s invasion of Ukraine pulled the rug from under people’s feet via the inflation

* HW prices in the UK tend to be about 15% higher in $ terms to begin with

* Consequently less scalper activity

* HW is cheapest to buy in the US, makes sense for scalpers to buy there then smuggle globally

* Jensen is actually not that fond of America 😉

 

Probably a combination of the above, however, this is still atypical. Will prob normalise soon.

[Mr. Fox]

25 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

That’s quite strange. Checked again and a fair amount of stock, even on Amazon which normally is more of a scalpers’ den. This could be due to a number of reasons:

* Less demand in the UK - the country has been on a continuing downward trajectory since Brexit, virtually everyone has gotten poorer, and now Putin’s invasion of Ukraine pulled the rug from under people’s feet via the inflation

* HW prices in the UK tend to be about 25% higher in $ terms to begin with

* Consequently less scalper activity

* HW is cheapest to buy in the US, makes sense for scalpers to buy there then smuggle globally

* Jensen is actually not that fond of America 😉

 

Probably a combination of the above, however, this is still atypical. Will prob normalise soon.

Sorry to hear at least a couple of your reasons. Yeah, Jensen needs to be booted. He can go to work for the CCP and then let's see how his outlook changes. The root problem is dishonesty and greed, not "market forces" unless you count manipulation and racketeering as market forces. (They are not.) Things have gone down the crapper here as well due to lack of leadership and extremely poor decisions made by idiots and losers making decisions for the rest of us.

On 2/3/2024 at 8:01 PM, Mr. Fox said:

it is sized right for that, but it just doesn't "feel" right. It feels like something is wrong using it this way.

I came very close to buying a 4090 Aorus Master today, for the correct price. I put it in my shopping cart and waited, then removed it. I thought about Battlemage and decided I can wait to see what happens next. But, it was very tempting. 

 

Munkin is back in the office, on a small wheeled platform. I put Banshee back where she belongs (not on the floor) and now use a KVM to switch between them.

 

 

I haven't used a KVM in years. I managed to find one with three DisplayPort outputs so I can use all three of my work monitors without having to unplug or downgrade to 60Hz HDMI on one of them. So, all three running 144Hz+ for both PCs. Simple press of a button to flip between the two computers. It works flawlessly. All of my USB hubs and everything work the same as if they were connected to just one PC. This is the KVM switch that I bought. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CLRRH9Q9

 

Most of them are 2xDP + 1xHDMI or only support two monitors. This was the only one I could find that supports three DP with 4K@120Hz that was not an outrageous price.

 

 

[Papusan]

7 hours ago, Etern4l said:

Scalpers are scumbags, but fortunately in this market they primarily get the vulnerable people who for some reason are seeking to buy a product.......

 

Stupid and scalpers.... They are all over the place on internet. And as long stupid buyers/consumers buy products at stupid prices this will just going on. How stupid can that be?

PLANNED VOLUNTARY SAFETY RECALL OF CABLEMOD 12VHPWR ANGLED ADAPTERS, V1.0 and V1.1

 

Yup. Not much can be done......

 

 

Scalpers across Asia stripping RTX 4090 cards from pre-built PCs to smuggle into China

 

GeForce RTX 4090 black market booms in China:  videocardz.com

Verifying whether this story is true is challenging, but the media reporting on this matter, has been reporting on similar situations from retailers in Taiwan, Singapore, Vietnam, and other China neighboring countries. It appears that the black market for RTX 4090 sales has evolved into a profitable business... Will the AI boom and the U:S ban continue destroy for the gamers when the 5000 series cards is out? Looks like that. 

 

@tps3443 For you....

 

 

[electrosoft]

4080 Super Stock in US is definitely near sold out as of 2/5/2924 6:33PM EST:

 

0 in stock on Newegg.

 

 

Only PNY 4080 Super in stock at Amazon at MSRP (but with Amazon's wonky search engine a few may not be picked up):

 

 

 

Only Gigabyte in stock at Best Buy:

 

 

In a month this will all be a moot point as everything normalizes as always after that initial buyers rush, but as of now in the US, stock is sparse.

 

 

[Mr. Fox]

I still haven't delidded it, but I moved the SP117 13900KS to the Apex Encore. I relidded the SP108 13900KS and installed it in my little Munchkin PC.

 

 

Moving the delidded SP108 CPU to the baby beast made a huge improvement in thermals. Not too shabby for such a little guy with only a 360 AIO. I think I have enough headroom now to bump the multis by 1x for P and E cores. But, the SP117 defintely needs to go bare die to stretch its legs properly. Even with lower voltage it is running hotter than the bare die CPU did with higher voltage, which is certainly to be expected.

 

[Etern4l]

A quick look on ebuy7 etc suggests the going price for a 4090D over there is in the ballpark for $3300. 4080S fetches $2k+.

 

”Hmm, much demand there is, sell to the highest bidder NVidia and scalpers an incentive have I think.”

 

 

[jaybee83]

27 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

A quick look on ebuy7 etc suggests the going price for a 4090D over there is in the ballpark for $3300. 4080S fetches $2k+.

 

”Hmm, much demand there is, sell to the highest bidder NVidia and scalpers an incentive have I think.”

 

 

 

what i also dont get: why do ppl in china pay scalper prices for the 4090 when they can get the 4090D at 1.9k USD with only 10% less performance but same vRAM? like....wheres the logic in that?

[Etern4l]

35 minutes ago, jaybee83 said:

 

what i also dont get: why do ppl in china pay scalper prices for the 4090 when they can get the 4090D at 1.9k USD with only 10% less performance but same vRAM? like....wheres the logic in that?

Unsurprisingly, it looks like there is insufficient availability. It’s a gigantic population, lots of people with plenty of cash to spare, not to mention the AI-driven demand.

 

It’s a bit like asking “Why do some people drive tigers around in their Bentleys?”

 

[electrosoft]

13 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

I still haven't delidded it, but I moved the SP117 13900KS to the Apex Encore. I relidded the SP108 13900KS and installed it in my little Munchkin PC.

 

 

Moving the delidded SP108 CPU to the baby beast made a huge improvement in thermals. Not too shabby for such a little guy with only a 360 AIO. I think I have enough headroom now to bump the multis by 1x for P and E cores. But, the SP117 defintely needs to go bare die to stretch its legs properly. Even with lower voltage it is running hotter than the bare die CPU did with higher voltage, which is certainly to be expected.

 

 

Nice! Glad to see the SP117 finally made it there safe and sound.

 

18 minutes ago, jaybee83 said:

 

what i also dont get: why do ppl in china pay scalper prices for the 4090 when they can get the 4090D at 1.9k USD with only 10% less performance but same vRAM? like....wheres the logic in that?

 

When you absolutely want the best, price:performance ramifications quickly fades into the distance.

[Mr. Fox]

9 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

 

Nice! Glad to see the SP117 finally made it there safe and sound.

When you absolutely want the best, price:performance ramifications quickly fades into the distance.

I had been using it in the ITX munchkin PC for about a week, but it was just too darned hot (due to no delid and such a small (360 AIO) thermal solution. 

 

Word on the price:performance thing. That's why some of us buy a 4090. Going to the opposite end of the spectrum is actually more attractive to me than settling for something somewhere in the middle. If I can't (or don't want to) pay for the best, then I might as well spend as little as possible and only as much as I have to in order to get the job done in a palatable way. If I can't win, then I am not interesting in playing. No point in it. That's not how everyone thinks, but it is how I do. Messed up? Yeah, probably.

[Etern4l]

2 hours ago, electrosoft said:

When you absolutely want the best, price:performance ramifications quickly fades into the distance.

Interestingly, this cognitive phenomenon can affect both those with the relevant cash to spare, and those who would be materially better off spending it differently. I guess most likely to occur in those with arguably far too much disposable cash though, e.g. a very mild example here:

 

I guess having a NYC banker dad helps lol

 

 

 

[Mr. Fox]

5 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

Interestingly, this cognitive phenomenon can affect both those with the relevant cash to spare, and those who would be materially better off spending it differently. I guess most likely to occur in those with objectively far too much disposable cash though, e.g. a very mild example here:

 

Having a NYC banker dad helps lol

 

 

 

There are also those that do not have disposable cash, but somehow end up with a disposable amount of credit, which they abuse to live beyond their means.

[Mr. Fox]

11 hours ago, jaybee83 said:

 

what i also dont get: why do ppl in china pay scalper prices for the 4090 when they can get the 4090D at 1.9k USD with only 10% less performance but same vRAM? like....wheres the logic in that?

10 hours ago, electrosoft said:

When you absolutely want the best, price:performance ramifications quickly fades into the distance.

10 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Word on the price:performance thing. That's why some of us buy a 4090. Going to the opposite end of the spectrum is actually more attractive to me than settling for something somewhere in the middle. If I can't (or don't want to) pay for the best, then I might as well spend as little as possible and only as much as I have to in order to get the job done in a palatable way. If I can't win, then I am not interesting in playing. No point in it. That's not how everyone thinks, but it is how I do. Messed up? Yeah, probably.

Well, this deal was too good to pass up. Will have it tomorrow. Price is right and worth the extra IMHO compared to 4080S. This is the same PCB as the Aorus Master GPU, just a different cooler, not the absurdly gigantic Master-size... but Byksi is going to solve that for me. The $200 price drop covers the cost of the $204 Bykski block.

 

https://www.newegg.com/gigabyte-geforce-rtx-4090-gv-n4090gaming-oc-24gd/p/N82E16814932550?

 

[jaybee83]

11 hours ago, electrosoft said:

 

Nice! Glad to see the SP117 finally made it there safe and sound.

 

 

When you absolutely want the best, price:performance ramifications quickly fades into the distance.

 

11 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

I had been using it in the ITX munchkin PC for about a week, but it was just too darned hot (due to no delid and such a small (360 AIO) thermal solution. 

 

Word on the price:performance thing. That's why some of us buy a 4090. Going to the opposite end of the spectrum is actually more attractive to me than settling for something somewhere in the middle. If I can't (or don't want to) pay for the best, then I might as well spend as little as possible and only as much as I have to in order to get the job done in a palatable way. If I can't win, then I am not interesting in playing. No point in it. That's not how everyone thinks, but it is how I do. Messed up? Yeah, probably.

 

sure, from a private enthusiast perspective, totally get it. i mean, i also got the 4090 on launch day, after all 😄 

 

but most of the demand is from AI companies. in a business environment its more about price/perf. than going balls to the wall. i cant imagine that those mere 10% difference WITH SAME VRAM would make up for a multifold in initial buying price...

[electrosoft]

1 hour ago, Mr. Fox said:

Well, this deal was too good to pass up. Will have it tomorrow. Price is right and worth the extra IMHO compared to 4080S. This is the same PCB as the Aorus Master GPU, just a different cooler, not the absurdly gigantic Master-size... but Byksi is going to solve that for me. The $200 price drop covers the cost of the $204 Bykski block.

 

https://www.newegg.com/gigabyte-geforce-rtx-4090-gv-n4090gaming-oc-24gd/p/N82E16814932550?

 

 

Congrats! but, er, don't you already have a Suprim X 4090 blocked?