*Official Benchmark Thread* - Post it here or it didn't happen :D

[Papusan]

5 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

All they need to do is ask their AI god for help. That will fix everything for them.

 

If I remember correct. 150mv between top and bottom. How can you make proper working chips from this mess? Imagine Nvidia would do that for 4090s. You would have seen more than complaints from burned down cards due idiotic power connector design. They would been slaughtered.

 

[Mr. Fox]

2 minutes ago, Papusan said:

 

If I remember correct. 150mv between top and bottom. How can you make proper working chips from this mess?

That's the thing. You can't. That's why I sent back 4 defective samples for a refund. A lot of defective samples are probably in use and probably more than a few defective samples are what is causing game crashes.

[Papusan]

2 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

That's the thing. You can't. That's why I sent back 4 defective samples for a refund. A lot of defective samples are probably in use and probably more than a few defective samples are what is causing game crashes.

 

And I sendt two back. Aka one good out of 3.  Whats that? 66.6% failure rate? @ryan please put in correct failure rate numbers out of 3 with your math skills. Thanks🤗

[electrosoft]

1 hour ago, Mr. Fox said:

That's the thing. You can't. That's why I sent back 4 defective samples for a refund. A lot of defective samples are probably in use and probably more than a few defective samples are what is causing game crashes.

 

After watching the crapstorm of 14900ks chips drop during the first month over in the OC forums, I didn't even try. @tps3443 continues to have the magic touch and tried two and went SP99 and SP108 and called it a wrap. 🙂

I'm sure you regret delidding your R-batch @tps3443 and in hindsight would have just continued to run it stock lid in exchange for greatly reduced maintenance. 🙂

 

After binning multiples 10th through 12th gen and doing the "return/sell for a slight loss cha cha slide", I just didn't have it in me to do it again with 13th and 14th. I just waited for two decent specimens to pop up at retail or below and snatched them up.

 

 

[ssj92]

Guys....no better place/people to ask than yourselves LOL

 

So I got some DDR5 RAM and a MSI Z790-P coming in....didn't cost me anything so platform switch wise I am already ahead. 

 

I am going to give my brother my 10980XE beast and build a Z790 system. I have all new parts except CPU & SSD. 

 

I'm seeing all these issues with 13900K/14900K. In your opinion, if all I need to spend $$$ on is a CPU, is it still worth building a Z790 system? Or are they all just unstable at this point. The 800 series MB isn't coming until Dec 2024 most likely, so I could ride my 10980XE and sell the Z790-P MB but it won't fetch me much $$$.

 

12900K is around $245 new

13900K is around $440 new

14900K is around $550 new 

 

as of this post. 

[electrosoft]

7 minutes ago, ssj92 said:

Guys....no better place/people to ask than yourselves LOL

 

So I got some DDR5 RAM and a MSI Z790-P coming in....didn't cost me anything so platform switch wise I am already ahead. 

 

I am going to give my brother my 10980XE beast and build a Z790 system. I have all new parts except CPU & SSD. 

 

I'm seeing all these issues with 13900K/14900K. In your opinion, if all I need to spend $$$ on is a CPU, is it still worth building a Z790 system? Or are they all just unstable at this point. The 800 series MB isn't coming until Dec 2024 most likely, so I could ride my 10980XE and sell the Z790-P MB but it won't fetch me much $$$.

 

12900K is around $245 new

13900K is around $440 new

14900K is around $550 new 

 

as of this post. 

 

Any 12th, 13th or 14th i9 is better than 10980xe single and for gaming. Multi you're looking at a 10980XE being slightly behind a 12900k.

 

12900k will run the coolest and has zero problems but 13th and 14th gen are hit or miss it seems. Most of us have had no problems except maybe SA Bug for a few.

 

12900k for $245 new is pretty sweet. You get a serious gaming uplift and almost equal MT performance. It is the clear winner bang/buck.

 

13900k really stretches its lead.

 

If I were you, I would just grab a 13900k and dial it in and reap the savings. Let's be honest: 13900k = 13900ks = 14900k = 14900ks. Depends on what you want to do.

 

What kind of DDR5 did you get?

[Mr. Fox]

32 minutes ago, ssj92 said:

Guys....no better place/people to ask than yourselves LOL

 

So I got some DDR5 RAM and a MSI Z790-P coming in....didn't cost me anything so platform switch wise I am already ahead. 

 

I am going to give my brother my 10980XE beast and build a Z790 system. I have all new parts except CPU & SSD. 

 

I'm seeing all these issues with 13900K/14900K. In your opinion, if all I need to spend $$$ on is a CPU, is it still worth building a Z790 system? Or are they all just unstable at this point. The 800 series MB isn't coming until Dec 2024 most likely, so I could ride my 10980XE and sell the Z790-P MB but it won't fetch me much $$$.

 

12900K is around $245 new

13900K is around $440 new

14900K is around $550 new 

 

as of this post. 

I have three Z790 desktops and all are super-stable and trouble-free. One 13900KS and two 14900KF. One has the SA bug, but it really doesn't matter. It runs the DDR5 at 8200 with tight timings with only 1.120V for VCCSA. I can't do 8400 with the VCCSA limit. In the grand scheme of things it really is not a big deal IMHO. It is a great silicon sample and the SA bug is way better than a crappy silicon sample. Any day of the week.

 

The trick is avoiding loss in the silicon lottery. I would buy a used CPU with a strong ASUS SP rating on overclock.net and plow ahead.  Being totally honest, my Z690 and Z790 systems have been the best and the strongest I have ever owned. No regrets.

  

2 hours ago, electrosoft said:

After binning multiples 10th through 12th gen and doing the "return/sell for a slight loss cha cha slide", I just didn't have it in me to do it again with 13th and 14th. I just waited for two decent specimens to pop up at retail or below and snatched them up.

Yeah, I am basically done buying new CPUs. I plan to ONLY buy used CPUs with a known silicon quality going forward. And, I won't pay a stupid price for one someone is selling because they found a better one. I'll just wait for a very good one at a palatable price as I have been doing. I'll let other people fiddle-fart with the new CPU shell game and waste their money. Ain't nobody got time fo dat.

[Raiderman]

5 hours ago, Papusan said:

More backlash for Intel. It will be hard try escape from all this. Only a fix or a class suite.

 

And be you sure.  This will be a huge topic forwards. Much more will pop up the coming weeks. Intel have a limited time line for fixing this now. The longer they wait telling whats going on the worse it will be.  Developers and companies have much more power than the average consumer. Good luck, Intel. No new cpu Sku should be launched before this being fixed!

 

Intel's 14th Gen & 13th Gen CPUs Start Plaguing The Gaming Industry With Frequent Crashes & Instable Performance, Warframe Creators Share Their Findings

 

 

https://wccftech.com/warframe-intel-14th-13th-gen-cpus-responsible-for-instability-issues/

I just read where Intel is denying RMA's as well. I need to find the article.

[Mr. Fox]

17 minutes ago, Raiderman said:

I just read where Intel is denying RMA's as well. I need to find the article.

Yes, I saw that, too. They're going to deny most RMAs anyway, unrelated to this current situation. They've done away with the performance tuning warranty and void warranty for overclocking like AMD now. Even running the memory in XMP is considered overclocking. I've already been down that road with them. The only way to get them to play nice is to lie to them and say you have never overclocked and never used XMP. Not delidding the CPU because it voids the warrant no longer has any basis in logic because using the CPU the way it is advertised and designed to be used voids the warranty. 

[ssj92]

1 hour ago, electrosoft said:

 

Any 12th, 13th or 14th i9 is better than 10980xe single and for gaming. Multi you're looking at a 10980XE being slightly behind a 12900k.

 

12900k will run the coolest and has zero problems but 13th and 14th gen are hit or miss it seems. Most of us have had no problems except maybe SA Bug for a few.

 

12900k for $245 new is pretty sweet. You get a serious gaming uplift and almost equal MT performance. It is the clear winner bang/buck.

 

13900k really stretches its lead.

 

If I were you, I would just grab a 13900k and dial it in and reap the savings. Let's be honest: 13900k = 13900ks = 14900k = 14900ks. Depends on what you want to do.

 

What kind of DDR5 did you get?

96GB Muskin Redline (2x48GB DDR5-5600) 

 

Didn't have too many choices on RAM/MB since they didn't cost me anything. 5600 is stock speed on 13900K and the extra RAM will help me since I run a VM and now will also run DVR software on this PC as well. 

 

I figured 13900K with its extra cores should keep me going for a long time.

 

I use a 2.5GBPS PCIe card as well in my X299 system so Z790 having it standard opens up a pcie slot as well. 

 

There was also a 12900KS on amazon for $255 but as of this morning the deal is gone. I'm going to wait for prime day next week to see if any further price drops are made. 

[Mr. Fox]

31 minutes ago, ssj92 said:

There was also a 12900KS on amazon for $255 but as of this morning the deal is gone. I'm going to wait for prime day next week to see if any further price drops are made.

Why roll the dice in the lottery when you can get a cherry-picked CPU of known quality in the overclock.net marketplace? I returned four CPUs in a row that were garbage and got my money back from Amazon and Newegg. All of the CPUs I'm running now are superior silicon samples that I've purchased there.

[Papusan]

3 hours ago, ssj92 said:

 

I figured 13900K with its extra cores should keep me going for a long time.

 

I use a 2.5GBPS PCIe card as well in my X299 system so Z790 having it standard opens up a pcie slot as well. 

 

There was also a 12900KS on amazon for $255 but as of this morning the deal is gone. I'm going to wait for prime day next week to see if any further price drops are made. 

 

LOOL.. More cores. More of baby cores. If you need AVX512 then look for a proper old 12900K sample. A few of those have it before Intel went idiot and fused it of on hardware level. No extra shit cores can beat it.  Newer is better, LOOL

[tps3443]

9 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

That's the thing. You can't. That's why I sent back 4 defective samples for a refund. A lot of defective samples are probably in use and probably more than a few defective samples are what is causing game crashes.

I think the 14900KS is a nice improvement, and most of them are really good, so you don’t have to do all of this buying. It makes binning easy. They are all tested for a good 5.9+ Vmin and solid stability. 

 

8 hours ago, electrosoft said:

 

After watching the crapstorm of 14900ks chips drop during the first month over in the OC forums, I didn't even try. @tps3443 continues to have the magic touch and tried two and went SP99 and SP108 and called it a wrap. 🙂

I'm sure you regret delidding your R-batch @tps3443 and in hindsight would have just continued to run it stock lid in exchange for greatly reduced maintenance. 🙂

 

After binning multiples 10th through 12th gen and doing the "return/sell for a slight loss cha cha slide", I just didn't have it in me to do it again with 13th and 14th. I just waited for two decent specimens to pop up at retail or below and snatched them up.

 

 

The biggest thing I have learned is, all a delid will do is give me +100Mhz with a lower temperature.  And that’s not worth the work. Running direct die also makes your previous stable ram overclocks a little tiny bit tougher most of the time. If I could go back I would not have delidded my R-Batch P117/E88, it had a very low 5.8 VF of 1.344v. It was a nice chip DD! But, even if I could go back I would still take my current 14900KS (SP108) the IMC on this chip is the best I’ve tested, the P/E cores are also fantastic and it can manage a lower load voltage than that R-batch could at 5.9Ghz. I can reset the bios load 8600c36-49 and load windows and I’m done. So I’m not worried one bit about the R-Batch. I had my fun with it. It was for sure an early “KS” before the KS even released. But since the KS launched even my SP99 (KS) could compete with it P-Core wise. 

 

3 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Why roll the dice in the lottery when you can get a cherry-picked CPU of known quality in the overclock.net marketplace? I returned four CPUs in a row that were garbage and got my money back from Amazon and Newegg. All of the CPUs I'm running now are superior silicon samples that I've purchased there.

I am finished buying binned chips. From now on I am buying only retail chips, and if it’s not testing good, I’m going to exchange it. If the 2nd one is the same then okay that’s fine, I’ll just run it. I think SP rating is just seriously incorrect and taken way too seriously. I had a low SP13900KS, and a low SP14900KS and both were great samples their main weaknesses were not the P cores but the IMC or the Cache. The differences between my SP99 and SP108 14900KS voltage requirements at 5.9Ghz is pretty small. It was maybe a 0.010-0.018V difference under a full load. With the direction that CPU overclocking and GPU demands are going I think system memory OC is probably more important now that we edge in to even more CPU bottleneck possibilities haha. So with future chip purchases, I’m going to test for IMC most importantly and P/E cores 2nd. Low SP or high SP I’m going to give them all a fair shake, I think with good cooling they’ll all be pretty close in the end. It’s nearly impossible to find something absolutely perfect anyways, all of these chips will have a weakness. Maybe it’s P-Cores, maybe E-Cores, maybe IMC, maybe it’s got a terrible cache lol. 
 

I may even skip next gen, and buy when KS version launches. If they do. 

[Mr. Fox]

5 hours ago, tps3443 said:

I think the 14900KS is a nice improvement, and most of them are really good, so you don’t have to do all of this buying. It makes binning easy. They are all tested for a good 5.9+ Vmin and solid stability. 

 

The biggest thing I have learned is, all a delid will do is give me +100Mhz with a lower temperature.  And that’s not worth the work. Running direct die also makes your previous stable ram overclocks a little tiny bit tougher most of the time. If I could go back I would not have delidded my R-Batch P117/E88, it had a very low 5.8 VF of 1.344v. It was a nice chip DD! But, even if I could go back I would still take my current 14900KS (SP108) the IMC on this chip is the best I’ve tested, the P/E cores are also fantastic and it can manage a lower load voltage than that R-batch could at 5.9Ghz. I can reset the bios load 8600c36-49 and load windows and I’m done. So I’m not worried one bit about the R-Batch. I had my fun with it. It was for sure an early “KS” before the KS even released. But since the KS launched even my SP99 (KS) could compete with it P-Core wise. 

 

I am finished buying binned chips. From now on I am buying only retail chips, and if it’s not testing good, I’m going to exchange it. If the 2nd one is the same then okay that’s fine, I’ll just run it. I think SP rating is just seriously incorrect and taken way too seriously. I had a low SP13900KS, and a low SP14900KS and both were great samples their main weaknesses were not the P cores but the IMC or the Cache. The differences between my SP99 and SP108 14900KS voltage requirements at 5.9Ghz is pretty small. It was maybe a 0.010-0.018V difference under a full load. With the direction that CPU overclocking and GPU demands are going I think system memory OC is probably more important now that we edge in to even more CPU bottleneck possibilities haha. So with future chip purchases, I’m going to test for IMC most importantly and P/E cores 2nd. Low SP or high SP I’m going to give them all a fair shake, I think with good cooling they’ll all be pretty close in the end. It’s nearly impossible to find something absolutely perfect anyways, all of these chips will have a weakness. Maybe it’s P-Cores, maybe E-Cores, maybe IMC, maybe it’s got a terrible cache lol. 
 

I may even skip next gen, and buy when KS version launches. If they do. 

I am skipping next gen. No point in it. 

 

You would think differently if you had received the hideously poor samples I returned to Amazon and NewEgg. They would have needed LN2 to avoid overheating. They would have been unusable with unchilled custom loop or an AIO. I hope your good luck holds out. If it doesn't it will be a very rude awakening. They're not "mostly good" samples. Turn off your chiller and buy a crappy (average) sample you'll find out real quick. I think it is easy for us that have very good silicon samples to forget that we are wearing rose-colored glasses.

[Mr. Fox]

If all goes as planned I will have the Rampage IV Gene (X79) and associated parts (4930K and RAM and Titan Black GPU) by next weekend. The old parts I am trading for them are boxed up and ready to ship tomorrow. I ordered an unlocked Xeon E5-1680 V2 on eBay (HP server pull) for like $45. So, I'll have a total of the postage to ship the parts traded plus $45 invested in it. I already have PSU, drives and other components needed in my spare parts, so no need to buy anything. It will be running NVMe from PCIe add-in cards. (I already have those in my spare parts, too.)

[electrosoft]

13 hours ago, tps3443 said:

I think the 14900KS is a nice improvement, and most of them are really good, so you don’t have to do all of this buying. It makes binning easy. They are all tested for a good 5.9+ Vmin and solid stability. 

 

The biggest thing I have learned is, all a delid will do is give me +100Mhz with a lower temperature.  And that’s not worth the work. Running direct die also makes your previous stable ram overclocks a little tiny bit tougher most of the time. If I could go back I would not have delidded my R-Batch P117/E88, it had a very low 5.8 VF of 1.344v. It was a nice chip DD! But, even if I could go back I would still take my current 14900KS (SP108) the IMC on this chip is the best I’ve tested, the P/E cores are also fantastic and it can manage a lower load voltage than that R-batch could at 5.9Ghz. I can reset the bios load 8600c36-49 and load windows and I’m done. So I’m not worried one bit about the R-Batch. I had my fun with it. It was for sure an early “KS” before the KS even released. But since the KS launched even my SP99 (KS) could compete with it P-Core wise. 

 

I am finished buying binned chips. From now on I am buying only retail chips, and if it’s not testing good, I’m going to exchange it. If the 2nd one is the same then okay that’s fine, I’ll just run it. I think SP rating is just seriously incorrect and taken way too seriously. I had a low SP13900KS, and a low SP14900KS and both were great samples their main weaknesses were not the P cores but the IMC or the Cache. The differences between my SP99 and SP108 14900KS voltage requirements at 5.9Ghz is pretty small. It was maybe a 0.010-0.018V difference under a full load. With the direction that CPU overclocking and GPU demands are going I think system memory OC is probably more important now that we edge in to even more CPU bottleneck possibilities haha. So with future chip purchases, I’m going to test for IMC most importantly and P/E cores 2nd. Low SP or high SP I’m going to give them all a fair shake, I think with good cooling they’ll all be pretty close in the end. It’s nearly impossible to find something absolutely perfect anyways, all of these chips will have a weakness. Maybe it’s P-Cores, maybe E-Cores, maybe IMC, maybe it’s got a terrible cache lol. 
 

I may even skip next gen, and buy when KS version launches. If they do. 

 

I figured you letting the R batch go and picking up a few retail 14900KS chips was because the delidding just wasn't worth it for your needs and setup. You ran delidded and relidded chips for quite a while before moving to delidded completely and now you're back to stock sTIM. I get that completely.

 

I used to delid all my chips and relid them since 6th gen and now I rarely delid except for certain circumstances (like the last 12th gen I delidded to try and improve thermals in the NH55 laptop). That was a case of the heat transferred faster allowing the chip to run cooler but the chip was so hot anyhow and the laptop heatsink so small that I ended up at the same thermal limits just a little slower than before the delid. 🙂

 

---

 

The better cooling you have, the more silicon variance can be compensated for in regards to performance.

 

When you run AIOs, air coolers along with more thermally challenging environments, SP rating definitely comes into play. I have yet to *ever* have a lower rated SP chip outperform a higher rated SP in chip since really using it as a metric since 10th gen.

 

Even when blind testing chips and ranking them on lets say an MSI board then subsequently picking up an Asus board and testing the SP, the SP has always fallen in line with my testing results on a non SP enabled board.

 

IMC is important and now a valid meta, but I am going to want the chip first and foremost perform as advertised and not go thermonuclear on me on an AIO and then IMC comes into play. The goal is chip performance vs thermals then 8000+ tight as possible.

 

---

 

I can see your view of taking a whack at 1-2 chips and calling it a day and letting the chips fall where they may. With your cooling setup, you will always get decent performance at least.

 

I'm waiting for AL vs 9800X3D/9950X3D showdown before I buy anything else. I'm quite content with my 7950X3D setup and it's all about 14900KS vs binned 7800X3D in WoW right now especially with the Xpac dropping on August 23rd. If 14900KS tuned with Intel APO enabled beats my 7950X3D, I have no problem swapping in Intel and moving the 7950X3D to the wife and replacing her 12900k setup or dropping the 7950X3D into my daughter's Team Red build and upgrading her 7600x paired with the 7900XTX. That would be a monster upgrade.

 

----

 

Good, extended reply bro. Greatly appreciated! 🙂

 

 

 

 

 

[tps3443]

11 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

I am skipping next gen. No point in it. 

 

You would think differently if you had received the hideously poor samples I returned to Amazon and NewEgg. They would have needed LN2 to avoid overheating. They would have been unusable with unchilled custom loop or an AIO. I hope your good luck holds out. If it doesn't it will be a very rude awakening. They're not "mostly good" samples. Turn off your chiller and buy a crappy (average) sample you'll find out real quick. I think it is easy for us that have very good silicon samples to forget that we are wearing rose-colored glasses.

The biggest reason why I’m not buying binned anymore is because I have been doing that and I have been chasing that, and its has been expensive, once you buy binned you receive a chip with high expectations in mind. And there might be a let down coming depending on what we paid. It’s a 50:50 chance lol. So I think it’s better to go in to something with no expectations, it is what it is mind set, do my own testing and draw my own conclusions is all. If I get an SP loser I can cope with it, but let’s test it and give it a chance, maybe try another one. I certainly don’t always win. I’m only showing bad items in a good light. My first SP99 KS was a very poor sample honestly. It had weak E-Cores, decent IMC, and the P-Cores were crap at anything but 5.9+. But I looked at the positives, and thought it was impressive for having P-Cores that could scale like a binned R-Batch, it was still a KS. My new 4090 is also a straight up loser 🥹. But it’s still a 4090, I paid less than retail so I’m okay with it. Speaking of 4090’s, their market value is finally settling down right now by the way. I had pre-ordered the Apex Encore just like most people, mine was not good at all it was terrible actually. I had a losing Apex Z690 too, I can keep going but I’m not gonna do that. I’ve been through many duds, and problems just like anyone else. That chase for perfection has become an obsession at times to the point Where I’m disappointed in a $1,500 dollar CPU, because it’s not competing with the $2,500 CPU that someone I know in China has 🤣 so I am letting go of all that, let’s rephrase that, (I am going to try and let go of that). Let the chips fall where they may “Literally haha”. And I’m going to start smoking copium probably.
 

[ssj92]

4 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

If all goes as planned I will have the Rampage IV Gene (X79) and associated parts (4930K and RAM and Titan Black GPU) by next weekend. The old parts I am trading for them are boxed up and ready to ship tomorrow. I ordered an unlocked Xeon E5-1680 V2 on eBay (HP server pull) for like $45. So, I'll have a total of the postage to ship the parts traded plus $45 invested in it. I already have PSU, drives and other components needed in my spare parts, so no need to buy anything. It will be running NVMe from PCIe add-in cards. (I already have those in my spare parts, too.)

Ah Titan Black, nice gpu. 

 

I recently upgraded a X99 board to a 22-Core Xeon just to test to see if it would work. 

 

I like the old HEDT platforms, which is why I held onto my X299 for so long. These new systems didn't really speak to me, but since I already received most of the parts needed, I am going to build a Z790 platform at this point. 

 

I remember the Xeon E5 1680 V2 worked in the Clevo P570WM and was overclockable. 

 

I really wanted to get my hands on the 28-Core Xeon W-3175X & EVGA SR-3 board but they're wildly expensive LOL 

[Mr. Fox]

1 hour ago, ssj92 said:

Ah Titan Black, nice gpu. 

 

I recently upgraded a X99 board to a 22-Core Xeon just to test to see if it would work. 

 

I like the old HEDT platforms, which is why I held onto my X299 for so long. These new systems didn't really speak to me, but since I already received most of the parts needed, I am going to build a Z790 platform at this point. 

 

I remember the Xeon E5 1680 V2 worked in the Clevo P570WM and was overclockable. 

 

I really wanted to get my hands on the 28-Core Xeon W-3175X & EVGA SR-3 board but they're wildly expensive LOL 

This one is open for offers. Solid CPU sample if you can buy it for a reasonable price. Should easily do 5.8-6.0GHz and memory at 8400 as a daily driver overclock with proper cooling.

 

https://www.overclock.net/threads/intel-13900ks-sp-113-p122-e97-mc82.1811397/

 

Yeah, I am looking forward to playing with those old parts for a bit. I am not sure how long they will hold my interest since I am so used to the scortched earth performance of my current systems, but free is a really good price. Well, not entirely free since I am trading old parts and paying postage, but you know what I mean.

 

It will be nice to have hardware to play with that just runs with no hassles on Windows 7 without having to fuss around with finding drivers that allow everything to work right. 

 

If I am going to do the old parts thing, they need to be something I haven't owned before. Otherwise, it is unlikely that I will beat my older benchmarks and won't gain any HWBOT hardware points. These are parts I haven't owned/benched before. Although, I am fairly confident that will beat the 4930K benchmarks that I submitted with the P570WM. That thing was hard to cool, even with the portable AC unit.

[Papusan]

3 hours ago, tps3443 said:

maybe try another one. I certainly don’t always win. I’m only showing bad items in a good light. My first SP99 KS was a very poor sample honestly. It had weak E-Cores, decent IMC, and the P-Cores were crap at anything but 5.9+. But I looked at the positives, and thought it was impressive for having P-Cores that could scale like a binned R-Batch,

 

If I remember correct. You haven't been on the dark side with trash silicon. Maybe not the best but not t the worst 😀 The trash is really bad.  Even worse with not the best cooling. Not everyone can reach our 46K target in CBR23. You cannot do that with Average trash chips. And me,, on vanilla water cooling without delidding, LM and direct die cooling... Yup +46K in CBR23

[tps3443]

1 hour ago, Papusan said:

 

If I remember correct. You haven't been on the dark side with trash silicon. Maybe not the best but not t the worst 😀 The trash is really bad.  Even worse with not the best cooling. Not everyone can reach our 46K target in CBR23. You cannot do that with Average trash chips. And me,, on vanilla water cooling without delidding, LM and direct die cooling... Yup +46K in CBR23

Yes, but that chip cost me $1,600 USD from Germany,  the prior 13900K was $1,360 USD. They are essentially bought binned, and sold at a huge loss. 
 

I’ve had my fair share of trash chips, which was why I started buying them binned originally.  The 10900K I bought from @Mr. Fox was limited to 4.9Ghz, that chip stopped working, and I bought a retail 11900K which was not a good sample either @electrosoft ran circles around me with his 11900K on AIO. I did end up getting a really good 11900K though, but I did go on to buy (4) more turd 11900K’s and sold them all for $185 each😃.  Had yeast two turd 13900K chips limited to 5.7Ghz (One barely could do even 5.7)My 13900KS was a SP104 below average, my 14900KS was a SP99 below average. The KS is a KS, so if you throw cooling at them they all scale great.
 

I don’t think It’s luck really, it’s just stress and money spent unfortunately lol. 😂 

I do believe my luck reveals the chips that can scale well, but it is also kind of a trick too. Because it probably won’t run like that on regular water temps. 

 

All I’m saying is, I have been buying an expensive binned chip for the past 2 years, I’m not going to do that anymore. I’m going to let the chips fall where they may, and stick to retail and coping, I get what I get. 🙂

 

Isn’t that how you roll @Papusan ? You just run the chip you get? I do remember one seriously good 8700K though. But besides that one.

 

[chew]

[Mr. Fox]

1 hour ago, chew said:

It's nice to see another ITX motherboard with memory overclocking capabilities similar to the Apex and Tachyon X. If I didn't already have the Z790i Edge I would not hesitate to grab a Z790i Lightning.

[electrosoft]

2 hours ago, chew said:

 

Nice! Mine will be here tomorrow so I'm looking forward to getting it on the test bench and spelunking around in the BIOS to see what it can do for me.

 

27 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

It's nice to see another ITX motherboard with memory overclocking capabilities similar to the Apex and Tachyon X. If I didn't already have the Z790i Edge I would not hesitate to grab a Z790i Lightning.

 

Lightning dethroned the Edge for Jufes's top ITX pick:

 

 

 

Wish I could have found an open box, but seeing as Amazon doesn't really deal with Asrock anymore directly, that basically means none would appear on the Warehouse. 😞

 

Speaking of Jufes, he posits it is the 2 core preferred insane boosting and voltage slamming through the chips that is causing degradation:

 

 

[Mr. Fox]

16 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

 

Nice! Mine will be here tomorrow so I'm looking forward to getting it on the test bench and spelunking around in the BIOS to see what it can do for me.

 

 

Lightning dethroned the Edge for Jufes's top ITX pick:

 

 

 

Wish I could have found an open box, but seeing as Amazon doesn't really deal with Asrock anymore directly, that basically means none would appear on the Warehouse. 😞

 

Speaking of Jufes, he posits it is the 2 core preferred insane boosting and voltage slamming through the chips that is causing degradation:

 

 

I would get the Lightning versus the Edge in your situation. Since I already own your Edge it would be frivolous for me to spend the money to buy a Lightning only to gain maybe 200MHz on the memory overclock. I do like the all black aesthic better than the silver and white. I think it looks nicer. Even with the 14900KF with the SA bug, the Edge is running like a top at 8200 CL36 with an anemic 1.190V VCCSA.

 

Jufes is probably right, as he most often is. I do not use TVB. I think gimmicks like TVB and PBO are a wuss way of overclocking a CPU. I don't do the favored 2 core boost. I just lock all cores at the same amount and lock the voltage where it works best. No fuss, no muss. And, none of the issue the media is buzzing about. And, I think that would be consistent with his opinion.