*Official Benchmark Thread* - Post it here or it didn't happen :D

[electrosoft]

Just now, tps3443 said:

From the research I did on this, this is happening because of the random latency and access times of our modern Gen3/4/5 M.2 SSD’s. They are just terrible with random latency response times. I have seen that an Intel P5800X can completely alleviate the issue all together, which was why I kinda got all in to wanting to get one. But we’re talking about owning a crazy expensive 400GB/800GB Enterpise drives that would only hold a couple games and cost a lot of money. 

 

Refer back to my post about SSD streaming.

 

18 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

Not much they can do. Even the world's best SSDs can't help....yet. The dream goal is to seamlessly stream assets from SSD->Vram. We may in the future get to a point where we can sacrifice fidelity for fluidity if at all.

 

This is the issue and I am not sure even one of those drives would alleviate the issue in totality. It may help in windows where it is right on the edge but for larger transfer/load scenarios? No.

 

 

 

 

 

[tps3443]

1 hour ago, electrosoft said:

 

Refer back to my post about SSD streaming.

 

 

This is the issue and I am not sure even one of those drives would alleviate the issue in totality. It may help in windows where it is right on the edge but for larger transfer/load scenarios? No.

 

 

 

 

 

All of the people who swear by the Intel Optanes say it alleviates these issue when games do this. In game loading objects and dropping GPU usage. So I need to just get one already. 

[Mr. Fox]

14 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

What the heck is going on? Is Jufus full of crap or is literally everyone that says it is crap is a moron that has no clue at all about what they are doing? He was right about Intel when most of them were wrong, so I'm inclined to think he might be right here even though I have no personal information to base it on. After pointing out what the other reviewers got wrong and moves to the cons it gets really interesting and it is like he is reading my mind about what makes it suck and why he is going to RMA it.

 

 

I am not sure that Jay or the two Steves actually know what they are doing. If they are trying to test things on BIOS defaults like an average gamerboy, that will always suck no matter what brand of CPU. It seems clear the new gen Ryzen is a different product than the one it is replacing. It's too bad they are still pairing an inferior CCD with a better one instead of passing the inferior silicon down to one of cheaper CPUs. That drove me nuts with the 5950X and I felt the same way about it that Jufus the Dufus expressed.

 

Maybe Brothers @Raiderman or @chew will get one and show us what a 9950X really looks like since they both know how to properly tune a non-X3D Ryzen CPU.

5 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

All of the people who swear by the Intel Optanes say it alleviates these issue when games do this. In game loading objects and dropping GPU usage. So I need to just get one already. 

At best you will validate it. At worst you will invalidate it. Either way you will have an insanely fast obsolete SSD that costs more that it is worth. 🤣

 

[electrosoft]

14 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

What the heck is going on? Is Jufus full of crap or is literally everyone that says it is crap is a moron that has no clue at all about what they are doing? He was right about Intel when most of them were wrong, so I'm inclined to think he might be right here even though I have no personal information to base it on. After pointing out what the other reviewers got wrong and moves to the cons it gets really interesting and it is like he is reading my mind about what makes it suck and why he is going to RMA it.

 

 

 

1 minute ago, Mr. Fox said:

Maybe Brothers @Raiderman or @chew will get a 9950X to show us what it really looks like, because they know how to correctly tune a non-X3D Ryzen CPU. I am not sure that Jay or the two Steves actually know what they are doing. If they are trying to test things on BIOS defaults like an average gamerboy, that will always suck no matter what brand of CPU. It seems clear the new gen Ryzen is a different product than the one it is replacing. It's too bad they are still pairing an inferior CCD with a better one instead of passing the inferior silicon down to one of cheaper CPUs. That drove me nuts with the 5950X and I felt the same way about it that Jufus the Dufus expressed.

 

I'm watching this now (I'm really behind on my YT videos with work, life and WoW Xpac lol).

 

He's crapping all over the 7800X3D, but the "cake and eat it too" answer is the 7950X3D.

 

I'm surprised he likes the 9950X so much. Bodes well for the 9950X3D. I like that it is more responsive to BIOS spelunking but outside of Jufus's standard, "I found out all these tweaks, but I won't say what they are but come to my discord and pay for it," BS.  Here is te he "magic" I expect to see:

 

Basically, he's going to turn off the weaker CCD eliminating any and all cross CCD latency/issues along with scheduler issues (since the CPU is new, we get to do the whole 7950/7900 song and dance again) and run the tuned binned CCD and tuned memory and declare he's created some super magic....the end. Welcome to the 7950x/7950x3D circa one year ago Jufes.

 

He's apparently new to AMD's dual CCD binning strategy which is kinda, sorta an Intel approach (P cores are greased lightning, E cores not so much but for multithreaded that is the magic). You get one CCD that is binned magic then a so so CCD. This has been around since the 5950x. The weaker core was a deal breaker for him. He wanted two binned/magical CCDs. I mean I don't blame him on that one. For $650, I would expect both my CCDs to be equally binned 🙂

 

In the end, he opts to return it he's so butt hurt over that one weaker CCD.

 

He then says if you have a choice between the 9950x and the 7800x3d and you're an enthusiast, you pick the 9950x. No, you wait and pick the 9950x3d.

 

Overall, he loves the new architecture but that second CCD is the deal breaker.

 

I'm very much looking forward to the 9950X3D.....then again I'm also looking forward to 15th gen too. 🙂

 

"I'm not revealing how to tune the 9950x except to my GOD (discord tier) supporters" ....GTFOH with that BS.

 

1 minute ago, tps3443 said:

All of the people who swear by the Intel Optanes say it alleviates these issue when games do this. In game loading objects and dropping GPU usage. So I need to just get one already. 

 

Latency of even Optane is nowhere near on the level of DDR5 or VRAM but go ahead and give it a try.......it can only help. If the pricing was a bit better, I'd give one a spin for testing. 🙂

 

 

 

 

 

[Mr. Fox]

37 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

He then says if you have a choice between the 9950x and the 7800x3d and you're an enthusiast, you pick the 9950x. No, you wait and pick the 9950x3d.

I am pretty sure I would despise an X3D chip for the same reasons he does. You basically get a gimped CPU that is good for gaming and not much else, and is further impaired in terms of its capacity for overclocking. I (personally) would never buy a CPU that was targeted for gaming above all else. If you replaced "enthusiast" with "gamer" then you'd have a solid statement. If the 9950X3D has two excellent matched CCDs and overclocks both CCDs as well or better than a 9950X on its better CCD, and you could toggle the disabling of the non-cached CCD for anything at will, then you would have a winner for both types of users that choose AMD and it would be worth the $650 price tag.

 

I'm pretty much not going to like/want/buy anything that is designed around gaming as the prime objective. I don't like E-cores either, for the same reason I don't like the mismatched CCD thing. I think both are crap ideas.

 

We don't know if his assumption is accurate about AMD pawning off crappy silicon for CCD2 to save a few bucks on each CPU, but I can't think of a better way to explain it. It makes little sense that they would sell a flagship product with a weak CCD with a lower boost clock as standard operating procedure. I hated that about the 5950X. You not only had a weaker CCD by design, but also preferred cores on each and it was a real abortion for overclocking, and the firmware probably made it worse than it needed to be. I agree that, conceptually and in practical application, it is equivalent in stupidity as having E-cores on Intel. Both companies got stupid on us in similar ways. I won't excuse either of them for it. That's why we no longer have a best option for everything; only an option of deciding what we think is the lesser of two evils that is good at some things.

[tps3443]

Just now, electrosoft said:

 

 

 

 

 

Latency of even Optane is nowhere near on the level of DDR5 or VRAM but go ahead and give it a try.......it can only help. If the pricing was a bit better, I'd give one a spin for testing. 🙂

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, the problem is our random read/writes of even the fastest SSD drives available today, and our limited cache on them, once the cache is full the drives performance is done for, but mainly the random

access or random streaming of data once the cache is full, the performance is comparable to that of a regular mechanical HDD read/write speeds. Maybe 70-150MBPS, whereas an Optane would still get like 800-900MBPS. Our consumer drives are crap 🥲 doesn’t need to be as fast as system ram for smooth experience though. 

[Mr. Fox]

Yesterday I gave the X79 system (with the Titan, not the RTX 2080 Ti in it) to my son-in-law as a gift. He was elated. As I was reconfiguring it with an air cooler and dropping it down from 47x all core to 45x, reinstalling Windows, etc. I was still surprised by how well such an old build performs by today's standards. I installed Crysis, The Witcher (a game I never liked), Hitman: Absolution, Wolfenstein: The New Order and Wolfenstein: The Old Blood, and all of them play 100% awesome with medium or high settings and looked great. 

 

My two teenage grand daughters immediately monopolized it. They had never heard of Wolfenstein before, but the oldest was instantly addicted.

[Papusan]

1 hour ago, Mr. Fox said:

We don't know if his assumption is accurate about AMD pawning off crappy silicon for CCD2 to save a few bucks on each CPU, but I can't think of a better way to explain it. It makes little sense that they would sell a flagship product with a weak CCD with a lower boost clock as standard operating procedure.

 

Very easy to understand bro @Mr. Fox See bolded text.

 

I expect it's due the lack of good enough binned chips (remember they also save up for the X3D chips). And they need only one of the die's that meet expectations and the second one can be everything. A real lottery. But be you sure, the elite/choosen ones get glued together chips with two good ccd's. 

[tps3443]

The Wukong black myth is really good. 2nd time playing. This game is very rewarding so

far. And the animations are amazing! Also, I highly recommend playing with a Xbox or PS5 controller. As for having top end hardware or not, if you are getting even 28fps, it feels like 60fps with a controller. I think that’s how the majority of people play this title, and it is highly liked. Technically I’m supposed to be working right now 😈 but yeah I’m over here play’n lol. 
 

 

[electrosoft]

2 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

I am pretty sure I would despise an X3D chip for the same reasons he does. You basically get a gimped CPU that is good for gaming and not much else, and is further impaired in terms of its capacity for overclocking. I (personally) would never buy a CPU that was targeted for gaming above all else. If you replaced "enthusiast" with "gamer" then you'd have a solid statement. If the 9950X3D has two excellent matched CCDs and overclocks both CCDs as well or better than a 9950X on its better CCD, and you could toggle the disabling of the non-cached CCD for anything at will, then you would have a winner for both types of users that choose AMD and it would be worth the $650 price tag.

 

I'm pretty much not going to like/want/buy anything that is designed around gaming as the prime objective. I don't like E-cores either, for the same reason I don't like the mismatched CCD thing. I think both are crap ideas.

 

We don't know if his assumption is accurate about AMD pawning off crappy silicon for CCD2 to save a few bucks on each CPU, but I can't think of a better way to explain it. It makes little sense that they would sell a flagship product with a weak CCD with a lower boost clock as standard operating procedure. I hated that about the 5950X. You not only had a weaker CCD by design, but also preferred cores on each and it was a real abortion for overclocking, and the firmware probably made it worse than it needed to be. I agree that, conceptually and in practical application, it is equivalent in stupidity as having E-cores on Intel. Both companies got stupid on us in similar ways. I won't excuse either of them for it. That's why we no longer have a best option for everything; only an option of deciding what we think is the lesser of two evils that is good at some things.

 

I can absolutely guarantee you would not like an X3D chip as you're really not into gaming hardcore and want a CPU to baseline perform at its best unhindered or asymmetrical in operations (IE Intel 12th+, AMD X3D or even to an extent dual CCD design).

 

If I wasn't into gaming, I would have also just picked up a 7950X, 9950X or 1X900K Intel chip and called it a wrap.

 

His argument was around gaming, the reasons the 7800X3D was only a good choice for gaming in the face of AMD's other offerings and also reiterating how his tuned 9950X (which he is returning) is close to the 7800X3D and if given a choice, he would select the 9950X over the 7800X3D. My counter is you wait for the 9950X3D and get the best of both worlds in that scenario like I do now.

 

In the same vein, I guess the same argument could be made about Intel too in regards to how close it can get when properly tuned. After tuning up that 13900KS vs the 7950X3D, I was absolutely fine with either platform for gaming. They were really close at the time. X3D still had a few bumps in the road then and my 13900KS was tested at 5.6 all core I think and no APO. This next round of testing is 14900KS at 5.9 all core and APO vs. binned CCD of the 7950X3D in WoW.

 

I suspect Intel is actually going to win, but we will see.

 

 

There are many architectural uplifts in AMDs new design but they just don't reflect as much now in gaming. As always, maturity/driver updates/agesa updates (the bane of AMD ownership) will only continue to improve and enhance their CPU performance.

 

Unless Intel brings the high heat (which they might), it will either be the 9950X3D or I will end up skipping both till next gen.

 

2 hours ago, tps3443 said:

Yeah, the problem is our random read/writes of even the fastest SSD drives available today, and our limited cache on them, once the cache is full the drives performance is done for, but mainly the random

access or random streaming of data once the cache is full, the performance is comparable to that of a regular mechanical HDD read/write speeds. Maybe 70-150MBPS, whereas an Optane would still get like 800-900MBPS. Our consumer drives are crap 🥲 doesn’t need to be as fast as system ram for smooth experience though. 

 

What has been documented are their superior random I/O and noted gains in just about every D2D scenario even if small so the worst case scenario is an improved overall user experience. Best case is maybe a dent in some of that chunk but that's asking a lot when they can't even touch DDR4 speeds let along GDDR6X.

 

I think the end game goal of Microsoft's Direct Storage is along those lines to improve not only load times but asset transfers both static and dynamic but SSDs need to get it together. 🙂

 

 

[Mr. Fox]

55 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

 

I can absolutely guarantee you would not like an X3D chip as you're really not into gaming hardcore and want a CPU to baseline perform at its best unhindered or asymmetrical in operations (IE Intel 12th+, AMD X3D or even to an extent dual CCD design).

 

If I wasn't into gaming, I would have also just picked up a 7950X, 9950X or 1X900K Intel chip and called it a wrap.

 

His argument was around gaming, the reasons the 7800X3D was only a good choice for gaming in the face of AMD's other offerings and also reiterating how his tuned 9950X (which he is returning) is close to the 7800X3D and if given a choice, he would select the 9950X over the 7800X3D. My counter is you wait for the 9950X3D and get the best of both worlds in that scenario like I do now.

 

In the same vein, I guess the same argument could be made about Intel too in regards to how close it can get when properly tuned. After tuning up that 13900KS vs the 7950X3D, I was absolutely fine with either platform for gaming. They were really close at the time. X3D still had a few bumps in the road then and my 13900KS was tested at 5.6 all core I think and no APO. This next round of testing is 14900KS at 5.9 all core and APO vs. binned CCD of the 7950X3D in WoW.

 

I suspect Intel is actually going to win, but we will see.

 

 

There are many architectural uplifts in AMDs new design but they just don't reflect as much now in gaming. As always, maturity/driver updates/agesa updates (the bane of AMD ownership) will only continue to improve and enhance their CPU performance.

 

Unless Intel brings the high heat (which they might), it will either be the 9950X3D or I will end up skipping both till next gen.

 

 

What has been documented are their superior random I/O and noted gains in just about every D2D scenario even if small so the worst case scenario is an improved overall user experience. Best case is maybe a dent in some of that chunk but that's asking a lot when they can't even touch DDR4 speeds let along GDDR6X.

 

I think the end game goal of Microsoft's Direct Storage is along those lines to improve not only load times but asset transfers both static and dynamic but SSDs need to get it together. 🙂

I think your prediction that I would not like X3D is spot on. I am pretty predictable.

 

I wish both of them would just release monolithic (or matched chiplet quality) high core count CPUs with all cores of the same product and silicon quality and not a hodge-podge cocktail like we have now. That is just stupid on the part of both companies.

 

Sorry for the duplicate post earlier. Not sure how that occurred as it was separated by a post from another person. Weird. I hid the first one so it would not look goofy.

1 hour ago, tps3443 said:

The Wukong black myth is really good. 2nd time playing. This game is very rewarding so

far. And the animations are amazing! Also, I highly recommend playing with a Xbox or PS5 controller. As for having top end hardware or not, if you are getting even 28fps, it feels like 60fps with a controller. I think that’s how the majority of people play this title, and it is highly liked. Technically I’m supposed to be working right now 😈 but yeah I’m over here play’n lol. 

I am glad you are enjoying it and that it is getting positive reviews. It certainly has attractive scenery and foliage in teh benchmark. I can say with about 99% certainty that I would not it like based on genre and gameplay style. It's far too expensive for me to consider buying it to find out. Maybe when it is old enough that the price drops to around $15 or less I might roll the dice just to see if I would not hate it as much as I believe I would. Every once in a great while that happens with a game and I have no problem admitting if I was wrong. 

 

I've never understood the desire for using a gamepad controller on a PC. If feels so clumsy and sloppy to me. That said, I know it is all relative and primarily about what a person starts with and gets used to that determines what they are most comfortable with. Other than maybe arcade fighting games like Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat, I universally prefer a keyboard and mouse. I am a lot more lethal with a keyboard and mouse than I am with a controller, but I have never had any desire to play games on a console. I can see where people that started on a console and played that way for years before moving to PC might feel the exact opposite.

[tps3443]

30 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

I think your prediction that I would not like X3D is spot on. I am pretty predictable.

 

I wish both of them when just release monolithic (or matched chiplet quality) high core count CPUs with all cores of the same product and not a hodge-podge cocktail like we have now. That is just stupid on the part of both companies.

 

Sorry for the duplicate post earlier. Not sure how that occurred as it was separated by a post from another person. Weird. I hid the first one so it would not look goofy.

I am glad you are enjoying it and that it is getting positive reviews. It certainly has attractive scenery and foliage in teh benchmark. I can say with about 99% certainty that I would not it like based on genre and gameplay style. It's far too expensive for me to consider buying it to find out. Maybe when it is old enough that the price drops to around $15 or less I might roll the dice just to see if I would not hate it as much as I believe I would. Every once in a great while that happens with a game and I have no problem admitting if I was wrong. 

 

I've never understood the desire for using a gamepad controller on a PC. If feels so clumsy and sloppy to me. That said, I know it is all relative and primarily about what a person starts with and gets used to that determines what they are most comfortable with. Other than maybe arcade fighting games like Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat, I universally prefer a keyboard and mouse. I am a lot more lethal with a keyboard and mouse than I am with a controller, but I have never had any desire to play games on a console. I can see where people that started on a console and played that way for years before moving to PC might feel the exact opposite.

99% of the time a mouse and keyboard is great, and I never advocate for a controller my self. But in racing games or sim racing like BeamNG/Forza we need fine throttle and clutch control. Unfortunately, our W button on the keyboard only has one mode for hitting the throttle at 0% gas or 100% gas (That’s how mine is anyways) When you want to rock crawl slowly up a hill without wheel spin on your big 44” tires that are almost completely flat with a V8 twin turbo truck in BeamNG, or drifting, or just general racing, it’s nice having variable throttle/clutch/steering inputs on an Xbox controller. But with this game the controller is only helpful for fighting. It’s a casual laid back experience for the most part, except for fighting a boss, then its edge of seat die over and over and over again until I finally beat the boss. While I understand how lethal mouse and keyboard can be, some games do not require aiming, if you just swing in the direction near an enemy, you’re in that hit box. Any game that requires aiming, you really need a mouse. If you played this, you’d know what I meant. It’s just easier.

 

PS: I wish they made a keyboard with variable throttle. That would be cool! I play BeamNG all the time, and it is the best car game ever. It never gets old building a vehicle how you want, and then just doing whatever with it. 

[Mr. Fox]

19 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

99% of the time a mouse and keyboard is great, and I never advocate for a controller my self. But in racing games or sim racing like BeamNG/Forza we need fine throttle and clutch control. Unfortunately, our W button on the keyboard only has one mode for hitting the throttle at 0% gas or 100% gas (That’s how mine is anyways) When you want to rock crawl slowly up a hill without wheel spin on your big 44” tires that are almost completely flat with a V8 twin turbo truck in BeamNG, or drifting, or just general racing, it’s nice having variable throttle/clutch/steering inputs on an Xbox controller. But with this game the controller is only helpful for fighting. It’s a casual laid back experience for the most part, except for fighting a boss, then its edge of seat die over and over and over again until I finally beat the boss. While I understand how lethal mouse and keyboard can be, some games do not require aiming, if you just swing in the direction near an enemy, you’re in that hit box. Any game that requires aiming, you really need a mouse. If you played this, you’d know what I meant. It’s just easier.

 

PS: I wish they made a keyboard with variable throttle. That would be cool! I play BeamNG all the time, and it is the best car game ever. It never gets old building a vehicle how you want, and then just doing whatever with it. 

Yeah, racing games makes good sense. I hardly ever play them so racing games did not come to mind. Years ago, I enjoyed playing a number of different racing games and found a joystick worked pretty well. I used the trigger for the throttle. Over the years my interest in gaming has become more narrow and restrictive. I think I have at least one, maybe two, undiagnosed personality disorders which have advanced with age that futher lend to a narrowed scope of interest.

[tps3443]

2 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Yeah, racing games makes good sense. I hardly ever play them so racing games did not come to mind. Years ago, I enjoyed playing a number of different racing games and found a joystick worked pretty well. I used the trigger for the throttle. Over the years my interest in gaming has become more narrow and restrictive. I think I have at least one, maybe two, undiagnosed personality disorders which have advanced with age that futher lend to a narrowed scope of interest.

Yeah, I’m not that interested in gaming either. I want to be. But finding games that keep me engaged gets harder the older I get. But I have to keep trying. 🙂

 

Also, you need to try BeamNG. It’s amazing for those with little/no interest in gaming. Thats why I play, I don’t have the energy for anything other than driving backwards on the race track most days. 😂

[ryan]

I think it happens all too commonly. We play games for hours a day every day as kids and young men and as we age the ability to get the dopamine from gaming sessions goes down and our desire fades..I literally can't play anything for more than an hour even if the game is incredibly well done like rdr2 or gta v..even my favorite crysis I just play one level the odd day..it's just not the same fascination as it was when I was younger

[tps3443]

Guys, WuKong combat is so CHALLENGING!!! Not the actual game getting from point A to B. But, just the combat in between. So challenging that when you actually do get past something you’re screaming YESSSS!!!! Yesss!!!! lol. Because your last 4 attempts failed miserably. Sometimes it takes reassigning all your skill points just to beat a boss. I’m genuinely surprised I’m even playing something like this. 🤣 but it’s entertaining. Give it a go @electrosoft 

[ryan]

Anyone here check out Star wars outlaws early access. Wukong has been getting crazy attention, over 150 000 reviews on steam in a few days and an overwhelmingly positive score. Might have to pick it up. 

[tps3443]

28 minutes ago, ryan said:

Anyone here check out Star wars outlaws early access. Wukong has been getting crazy attention, over 150 000 reviews on steam in a few days and an overwhelmingly positive score. Might have to pick it up. 

I received the Starwars Outlaws for free with my 14900KS, just waiting on its release! Wukong is really great though! Lots of detail, and it’s very fun, and super rewarding, you seriously appreciate the skills you work for that your human monkey receives lol . Put in about 2 hours and you get hooked. I am at 5.5 hours play time so far. Very fun! 

[electrosoft]

4 hours ago, ryan said:

I think it happens all too commonly. We play games for hours a day every day as kids and young men and as we age the ability to get the dopamine from gaming sessions goes down and our desire fades..I literally can't play anything for more than an hour even if the game is incredibly well done like rdr2 or gta v..even my favorite crysis I just play one level the odd day..it's just not the same fascination as it was when I was younger

 

When I was younger, I had so much free time and zero other cares in the world. I could program and game 16hrs/day no problem and get by on 4hrs of sleep easy. Now? Wife, children, bills, expenses, work, health and getting older. Your interests also expand to other things. I have to dedicate much more of my brain pan to other subjects.

 

 

3 hours ago, tps3443 said:

Guys, WuKong combat is so CHALLENGING!!! Not the actual game getting from point A to B. But, just the combat in between. So challenging that when you actually do get past something you’re screaming YESSSS!!!! Yesss!!!! lol. Because your last 4 attempts failed miserably. Sometimes it takes reassigning all your skill points just to beat a boss. I’m genuinely surprised I’m even playing something like this. 🤣 but it’s entertaining. Give it a go @electrosoft 

 

World of Warcraft new Xpac "officially" just dropped today. I picked up the epic edition early last week, so I've been playing for the last 3-4 days early access. It has all my focus atm. Even Fallout 76 is on the shelf for now 🙂

 

 

[D2ultima]

18 hours ago, electrosoft said:

 

@D2ultima "Traversal Stutter" I like that! 🙂

 

It isn't my term, Digital Foundry and many other reviewers use it. It is, however, a problem rather specific to unreal engine. What you were describing about it being a problem in other games doesn't much apply in this specific case. I can't say if having a P5800X would fix it or not, though, but wouldn't surprise me if it did considering its super fast random read/write.

[Papusan]

16 hours ago, electrosoft said:

Unless Intel brings the high heat (which they might), it will either be the 9950X3D or I will end up skipping both till next gen.

 

Next Gen.... You mean Nova lake with real mobile desktop processors? Or you mean next gen Intel with the Arrow Refresh? Me see Arrow lake Refresh with either more babies or upgraded NPU. And guess what will do the most for the AI hype? Not more babies in the die. You can't have it all (more babies and upgraded NPU). The best will be the usual 200MHz higher boost clock and upgraded NPU. Not exactly very exiting, is it? But it's what it is and we will finally see real mobile processors for our DIY desktops. The future looks damn bright for enhusiast performance techies. NPU for AI, more power efficient E-Cores and all in an mobile Cpu package for desktops.

 

But.........

 

 

You can just buy an thin Jokebook. It have everything what an desktop offer. Me.... By then finished with computers. In the rocking chair I go and will enjoy last years of good life before the lid lock over my face...

[Mr. Fox]

I saw the hotspot temp creeping up on one of my 4090 GPUs and decided to do something about it.

 

@tps3443 you had asked about PTM7950 for a desktop CPU and it's not great. But it does work very well for GPUs.

 

See my "before" GPU temps below.

 

 

I used PTM7950 (pad) on the 4090 core. The thermal paste (Alphacool Apex) that was on it was very dried out and that explains the core temps being a little bit elevated. But, the hotspot was what concerned me most. When I took it apart I saw all of the thermal pads were nearly cut in half. The block came with 1.0mm pads. I replaced them with 0.5mm pads to improve die contact pressue and everything across the board improved. Core, hotspot and memory junction temperatures.

 

I found an easy way to remove the film on the PTM7950, which is always a bit tedious and often rips the pad. Put it in the freezer, then cut it and peel off one side. Stick it to the GPU core, then put the GPU in the freezer for about 10 minutes. Then the top film peels off easily without sticking or ripping the paper thin PTM7950 pad. I stick Scotch tape to the film and find that it peels the film off effortlessly with no damage to the PTM7950 pad. The melting point is so low and the pad so thin that you need it very cold and hard to stop the film from sticking to it and tearing up the pad.

 

I used these 12.8 W/mK thermal pads. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09DC772PR 

 

Now look at the GPU temps. Huge improvement. Hotspot alone is 15°C cooler now, with a 10°C delta rather than a 17°C delta compared with the core temperature.

 

 

[tps3443]

25 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

I saw the hotspot temp creeping up on one of my 4090 GPUs and decided to do something about it.

 

@tps3443 you had asked about PTM7950 for a desktop CPU and it's not great. But it does work very well for GPUs.

 

See my "before" GPU temps below.

 

 

I used PTM7950 (pad) on the 4090 core. The thermal paste (Alphacool Apex) that was on it was very dried out and that explains the core temps being a little bit elevated. But, the hotspot was what concerned me most. When I took it apart I saw all of the thermal pads were nearly cut is half. The block came with 1.0mm pads. I replaced them with 0.5mm pads to improve die contact pressue and everything across the board improved. Core, hotspot and memory junction temperatures.

 

I found an easy way to remove the film on the PTM7950, which is always a bit tedious and often rips the pad. Put it in the freezer, then cut it and peel off one side. Stick it to the GPU core, then put the GPU in the freezer for about 10 minutes. Then the top film peels off easily without sticking or ripping the paper thin PTM7950 pad. I stick Scotch tape to the film and find that it peels the film off effortlessly with no damage to the PTM7950 pad. The melting point is so low and the pad so thin that you need it very cold and hard to stop the film from sticking to it and tearing up the pad.

 

I used these 12.8 W/mK thermal pads. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09DC772PR 

 

Now look at the GPU temps. Huge improvement. Hotspot alone is 15°C cooler now, with a 10°C delta rather than a 17°C delta compared with the core temperature.

 

 

Thats amazing. I’m going to repaste my 4090 now for sure. 🙂 Maybe it’ll help it with overclocks a bit. I notice sometimes OC may be bad when contact isn’t always perfect.

[Mr. Fox]

2 hours ago, tps3443 said:

Thats amazing. I’m going to repaste my 4090 now for sure. 🙂 Maybe it’ll help it with overclocks a bit. I notice sometimes OC may be bad when contact isn’t always perfect.

The thermal testing in the screenshots above was stock, but because the temps were lower the core boost clock changed from 2685 to 2700 all by itself, as you can see in the screenshots.

[electrosoft]

6 hours ago, D2ultima said:

It isn't my term, Digital Foundry and many other reviewers use it. It is, however, a problem rather specific to unreal engine. What you were describing about it being a problem in other games doesn't much apply in this specific case. I can't say if having a P5800X would fix it or not, though, but wouldn't surprise me if it did considering its super fast random read/write.

 

Segmenting them into two classes of loading asset stutter (SSD stutter, texture loading/shifting stutter), they are a similar problem but I see where you're coming from.

 

But it does make me even more curious about using a P5800X would eliminate the problem and if so then using one in other games to see if the SSD is partially the culprit. The problem I can think of is even with a P5800X, if you're running very high refresh gaming (let's say 60fps or greater), even a P5800X won't be able to compensate. You would have to find the sweet spot to lock your fps to fluidly and seamlessly traverse from one location to the next. Faster the random I/O,/ms the higher the fps you can lock.

 

This is still the basics and dream of M$ DirectStorage but you need a competent SSD/technology to implement it properly.

 

@tps3443 you need to order one and see where the sweet spot falls. You could also inversely continue to lock your fps lower and lower till you find the sweet spot with your current SSD and the problem goes away.

 

3 hours ago, Papusan said:

 

Next Gen.... You mean Nova lake with real mobile desktop processors? Or you mean next gen Intel with the Arrow Refresh? Me see Arrow lake Refresh with either more babies or upgraded NPU. And guess what will do the most for the AI hype? Not more babies in the die. You can't have it all (more babies and upgraded NPU). The best will be the usual 200MHz higher boost clock and upgraded NPU. Not exactly very exiting, is it? But it's what it is and we will finally see real mobile processors for our DIY desktops. The future looks damn bright for enhusiast performance techies. NPU for AI, more power efficient E-Cores and all in an mobile Cpu package for desktops.

 

But.........

 

 

You can just buy an thin Jokebook. It have everything what an desktop offer. Me.... By then finished with computers. In the rocking chair I go and will enjoy last years of good life before the lid lock over my face...

 

Next NEXT NEXT generation then hmmm? 🤣

 

3 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

I saw the hotspot temp creeping up on one of my 4090 GPUs and decided to do something about it.

 

@tps3443 you had asked about PTM7950 for a desktop CPU and it's not great. But it does work very well for GPUs.

 

See my "before" GPU temps below.

 

 

I used PTM7950 (pad) on the 4090 core. The thermal paste (Alphacool Apex) that was on it was very dried out and that explains the core temps being a little bit elevated. But, the hotspot was what concerned me most. When I took it apart I saw all of the thermal pads were nearly cut in half. The block came with 1.0mm pads. I replaced them with 0.5mm pads to improve die contact pressue and everything across the board improved. Core, hotspot and memory junction temperatures.

 

I found an easy way to remove the film on the PTM7950, which is always a bit tedious and often rips the pad. Put it in the freezer, then cut it and peel off one side. Stick it to the GPU core, then put the GPU in the freezer for about 10 minutes. Then the top film peels off easily without sticking or ripping the paper thin PTM7950 pad. I stick Scotch tape to the film and find that it peels the film off effortlessly with no damage to the PTM7950 pad. The melting point is so low and the pad so thin that you need it very cold and hard to stop the film from sticking to it and tearing up the pad.

 

I used these 12.8 W/mK thermal pads. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09DC772PR 

 

Now look at the GPU temps. Huge improvement. Hotspot alone is 15°C cooler now, with a 10°C delta rather than a 17°C delta compared with the core temperature.

 

 

 

Those are fantastic results AND you gained a bin on your 4090 as a result even at better temps! Where did you source your PTM7950? A lot of counterfeit sources on the market at the moment unfortunately.