*Official Benchmark Thread* - Post it here or it didn't happen :D

[Mr. Fox]

On 12/17/2022 at 3:03 PM, electrosoft said:

Makes sense since you're going to just throw your own heatsink solution on them anyhow. The price and RGB aren't worth it.

 

Glad to see you testing, pushing and binning various sticks out there to separate the wheat from the chaff for clarity.

It is kind of crazy how some people assume that just because they are paying a lot for a certain brand or part number they are guaranteed to have a good outcome. That is less true today than it ever has been in the past. The opposite *should* be true with QC, but the sad truth is most of the hardware OEMs just don't give a damn about what they sell or the people that buy their stuff as long as the cash keeps flowing.

 

[Papusan]

1 hour ago, Raiderman said:

@jaybee83I was thinking of picking up one of those Arctic Liquid Freezers for my new build, but the specs only show it fitting the AM4, and not the AM5?? Does it fit the new socket? Thanks.

Arctic offer support for all newer and older models from Intel and AMD AC LF AIO coolers. But the AIOs come in several revisions. Not sure all the shops have latest revision. Should be stated on the package. Search their support and you find more before or after the purchase. Here is a few samples where you find info https://support.arctic.de/lf2-360-rgbr3  -  https://www.arctic.de/Liquid-Freezer-II-AM3-Mounting-Kit/MPSAS00784A

 

Search up what AIO cooler you want (with or without bling bling) then check the info, manual, installation and package content + spare parts https://www.arctic.de/LF2-360

 

Or just send Artic support an short email and ask what revision have the needed parts. But you normally never know what revision AIO you'll get if you order from a shop. Maybe ask the shop support as well.

 

I had to order the 1700 kit as the shipped package was too old. Shops normally offer spare parts as this as well.

 

[Papusan]

Please, delete. Double post. Thanks

[Raiderman]

1 hour ago, Papusan said:

Arctic offer support for all newer and older models from Intel and AMD AC LF AIO coolers. But the AIOs come in several revisions. Not sure all the shops have latest revision. Should be stated on the package. Search their support and you find more before or after the purchase. Here is a few samples where you find info https://support.arctic.de/lf2-360-rgbr3  -  https://www.arctic.de/Liquid-Freezer-II-AM3-Mounting-Kit/MPSAS00784A

 

Search up what AIO cooler you want (with or without bling bling) then check the info, manual, installation and package content + spare parts https://www.arctic.de/LF2-360

 

Or just send Artic support an short email and ask what revision have the needed parts. But you normally never know what revision AIO you'll get if you order from a shop. Maybe ask the shop support as well.

 

I had to order the 1700 kit as the shipped package was too old. Shops normally offer spare parts as this as well.

 

Right. The reason I was asking, was Newegg was out of stock of the 420 version, and was getting it from one of their partner sites. I cant see the package or the revision number. I sent them a message to see if it was AM5 compatible. Thanks Pap.

[Etern4l]

2 hours ago, Raiderman said:

@jaybee83I was thinking of picking up one of those Arctic Liquid Freezers for my new build, but the specs only show it fitting the AM4, and not the AM5?? Does it fit the new socket? Thanks.

Clicked through a couple of them 360s and 420s, and all support AM5: https://www.arctic.de/en/products/cooling/cpu-cooler/cpu-water-cooler/

[Raiderman]

2 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

Clicked through a couple of them 360s and 420s, and all support AM5: https://www.arctic.de/en/products/cooling/cpu-cooler/cpu-water-cooler/

I cant find anywhere in the description about fitting AM5.

https://www.newegg.com/arctic-liquid-cooling-system/p/13C-000P-000R4?Item=9SIA2W0GR42879

[Papusan]

38 minutes ago, Raiderman said:

Right. The reason I was asking, was Newegg was out of stock of the 420 version, and was getting it from one of their partner sites. I cant see the package or the revision number. I sent them a message to see if it was AM5 compatible. Thanks Pap.

PR | ARCTIC confirms cooler compatibility with AM5

23 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

Clicked through a couple of them 360s and 420s, and all support AM5: https://www.arctic.de/en/products/cooling/cpu-cooler/cpu-water-cooler/

20 minutes ago, Raiderman said:

I cant find anywhere in the description about fitting AM5.

https://www.newegg.com/arctic-liquid-cooling-system/p/13C-000P-000R4?Item=9SIA2W0GR42879

 

Forget get info from stupid shops. They will that you buy whatever you click/look on. Even some special pc parts shops will give wrong info.

 

And you find what you want in the products sheet

 

Click whatever revision you want https://support.arctic.de/de/lf2-420-rgb

 

Edit. Be also aware of this. The fix isn't provided with older revisions (long time placeholders)... Arctic Announces Service Kit For Defective Liquid Freezer....

Liquid Freezer II | Service Kit - ARCTIC

 

[Etern4l]

2 hours ago, Papusan said:

 

Edit. Be also aware of this. The fix isn't provided with older revisions (long time placeholders)... Arctic Announces Service Kit For Defective Liquid Freezer....

Liquid Freezer II | Service Kit - ARCTIC

 

 

I had one of those, was easy to fix though obviously extra hassle. Newer items should have a QC sticker on as evidence of the issue being resolved. AFAIR only units sold until June had the problem. Otherwise a solid AIO, has been through a lot already, although one fan started making noises after a couple of months of heavy duty so had to replace.

[Mr. Fox]

It will be interesting to see what the generic A-die sticks from AliExpress do. They should be here the second week of January, LOL. (Proverbial slow boat from China.) This is my generic SK Hynix green M-die with Dark BIOS v2.05. 

 

http://valid.x86.fr/bq845g

[Papusan]

33 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

 

I had one of those, was easy to fix though obviously extra hassle. Newer items should have a QC sticker on as evidence of the issue being resolved. AFAIR only units sold until June had the problem. Otherwise a solid unit, although one fan started making noises after a couple of months of heavy duty so had to replace.

Yep I also have the 420 and the fix from Arctic lying in the shelf. Took a good 4 weeks to get the free item (Arctic was fast with the email notice but slow on the delivering). But I haven't bothered fix it due the spare part status. A good cooler. But I went for a custom loop for the sons new pc build. No place in that mid chassis for a 420 AIO. I will probably fix it when I have the time and the need for it. 

 

I swapped out the fans when I had this AIO cooler in my pc. In push and pull. The orginal fans is a bit weak but quiet. And you can tune down a more powerful fan for less noise, so... You can't have it both with the orginal ARCTIC fans.

[Mr. Fox]

On 12/12/2022 at 10:02 AM, Mr. Fox said:

Wow... still down?!? Seems like something more than "service enhancements" because it is taking a crazy long time. Wonder what the deal is? Maybe trying to keep the lid on something they don't want exposed for discussion in their forum? Or, maybe a mishap that wiped everything out? Neither one would be good.

 

 

On 12/12/2022 at 3:56 PM, Tenoroon said:

I may be wrong, but word on the street says they are migrating their current servers for the forums and reworking the forums. Take this with a grain of salt though...

 

On 12/12/2022 at 4:05 PM, johnksss said:

I think the word on the street is they messed it up and are now trying to recover it....Based on my migration experiences over the past 20 years.

I can't help but think something went terribly wrong and somebody(s) are in deep doo-doo right about now. There is no way this was routine maintenance given the absurd amount of time that has passed since their forum went dark. And, I am wondering if they didn't have any backups and now there is nothing left to rebuild. That could be really tragic for lots of people.

[Papusan]

2 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

 

 

I can't help but think something went terribly wrong and somebody(s) are in deep doo-doo right about now. There is no way this was routine maintenance given the absurd amount of time that has passed since their forum went dark. And, I am wondering if they didn't have any backups and now there is nothing left to rebuild. That could be really tragic for lots of people.

I checked my prevous answer on this. The site have been down since 1th Dec. Shortly... Sure😀

 

Bro Fox still waiting.... In 2100

 

 

 

Edit: Todays fun.

Me sitting on pc. Pc went black. Me... What the fuck. Me restart pc and still black under boot up. Me thinking... Whats wrong. Me know it should work. Me checked the power cable for the monitor. Me found the culprit... Me kicking the cable in place and the screen blinking hey you stupid, LOOL... Me feel like this 

[Etern4l]

19 minutes ago, Papusan said:

Yep I also have the 420 and the fix from Arctic lying in the shelf. Took a good 4 weeks to get the free item (Arctic was fast with the email notice but slow on the delivering). But I haven't bothered fix it due the spare part status. A good cooler. But I went for a custom loop for the sons new pc build. No place in that med chassis for a 420 AIO. I will probably fix it when I have the time and the need for it. 

 

I swapped out the fans when I had this AIO cooler in my pc. In push and pull. The orginal fans is a bit weak but quiet. And you can tune down a more powerful fan for less noise, so... You can't have it both with the orginal ARCTIC fans.

 

For me it was maybe 2 weeks to get the service kit delivered. Then I waited for a good while before using it. Didn't see anything horrible inside, just a bit of a reddish discolouration on the copper cold plate, but the gasket was indeed rubber as shown on the GN video.

[Mr. Fox]

22 minutes ago, Papusan said:

I checked my prevous answer on this. The site have been down since 1th Dec. Shortly... Sure😀

 

Bro Fox still waiting.... In 2100

LOL... I was wanting to download something in one of their threads and ended up getting it elsewhere from someone that had already downloaded it. Now I am just checking out of curiosity about what the deal is.

---

More shifty behavior by the Green Goblin... glad I never gave a rat's butt about streaming or NVIDIA Shield. I would not be a happy camper right now.

 

[Rage Set]

13 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

LOL... I was wanting to download something in one of their threads and ended up getting it elsewhere from someone that had already downloaded it. Now I am just checking out of curiosity about what the deal is.

---

More shifty behavior by the Green Goblin... glad I never gave a rat's butt about streaming or NVIDIA Shield. I would not be a happy camper right now.

 

 

The local gamestreaming tech is great. They are getting rid of it so you can pay them for the privilege now. Luckily for me, Steam Link is better. 

[Mr. Fox]

3 hours ago, Rage Set said:

 

The local gamestreaming tech is great. They are getting rid of it so you can pay them for the privilege now. Luckily for me, Steam Link is better. 

It works well. Once in a great while I tinker with it. I think I have used my Steam Link two or three times this year just for shiggles and it is pretty darned impressive. I hate using my XBOX Elite wireless controller (or any gamepad for that matter) for most games though and my only opportunities to use the 4K TV set for this are when I am the only one home. My preference is to sit at the keyboard/mouse in front of my computer, but the capabilities are impressive and the benefits (or pleasure) some folks will derive from it are self-evident.

 

I believe a wireless keyboard and mouse combo with a unified USB receiver will also work with the Steam Link instead of my gamepad controller, but I don't want to spend money on that to find out since I so seldom use it and would not use them otherwise.

 

I paid less than $10 each for two brand new Steam Link devices during a Steam Christmas sale a few years ago and gave one to @Premaas a gift.

 

I cannot imagine that they would actually expect anyone to pay for this. Maybe they don't and it is their way of getting rid of it organically because they are no longer interested in supporting it. It probably isn't a cash cow for them so they stopped caring.

[cylix]

18 hours ago, Raiderman said:

I cant find anywhere in the description about fitting AM5.

https://www.newegg.com/arctic-liquid-cooling-system/p/13C-000P-000R4?Item=9SIA2W0GR42879

From what i know any AIO that doesnt require a backplate works on AM5

[electrosoft]

This chart makes sense in regards to how Dragonflight is playing on the 7900xtx. This is a summary of 15 performance launch reviews.

 

4090? A beast, case closed. It is a monster. I'm slowly, but surely, leaning towards it more and more now after these results.

 

Raster the 7900xtx is ~5% faster overall than the 4080 but turn on RT and it is slower than a 3090ti by 4% and slower than a 4080 by ~32%. 4090 is just skipping along destroying both cards....

 

Having slipped back into a 3080 10GB for the time being from a KPE 3090ti this chart is very accurate in WoW w/ RT on. Looking at the fps I'm getting on this 144hz 5120x1440 display, the only real meaningful upgrade still is a 4090 to actually get it to stay consistently above 120fps and closer to 144hz cap at all times. A 4080 would put me around 80-100fps in troublesome spots. Those same spots drop to 50-70fps on my 3080. Maybe more as I am only in the second zone of Dragonflight (of 4).

 

I'm going to drag my display over to my bud's house and his Suprim 4090 to confirm this once this Fluvid I have at the moment resolves (Flu A + Covid).

 

 

 

RT is actually a thing now in Dragonflight and you can see the difference on and off especially with spell casts. Those 7900xtx fps in Ardenweald are right below the fps I was getting on my 3090ti in the same zone with Ultra RT max on with my 4k display. 7900xtx is a non starter for me now at $1000. 7900xt is a non starter regardless of the price. It is only 4090 or 4080 at a good price.

 

 

[Papusan]

6 hours ago, electrosoft said:

Raster the 7900xtx is ~5% faster overall than the 4080 but turn on RT and it is slower than a 3090ti by 4% and slower than a 4080 by ~32%. 4090 is just skipping along destroying both cards....

Could be a long time until we will see 4090Ti or Titan. AMD just don't want to compete. And if they launc a 4090 Ti it will most likely be castrated (not with full fat ADA). Those will go into Nvidia's +6000$ cards for data centers.

 

And Nvidia seems have hard time with their overpriced xx80. The question for today... Will we see a new MSRP before January is over? Or will they hide MSRP and sell it for highest possible price people are willing to pay?

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It seems the HW reviewers/editors at Tomshardware become worse and worse. They post about the new cooling from Dell on on first page but don't want show any temp results in the review. Maybe Dell have told them not to talk about it in their review... Bad publicity can hamper the sales of this new refreshed junkware. 

 

Alienware Aurora R15 Review: Playing it CoolerAlienware has finally upgraded its AIO cooler.

And here's the picture of Dell Alienwares gaming flagship. Nice cable bend as well 🙂 Exactly the way Nvidia saiid you shouldn't. But its Dell, so it has to be ok.

 

[Mr. Fox]

34 minutes ago, Papusan said:

It seems the HW reviewers/editors at Tomshardware become worse and worse.

They seem to enjoy being part of the problem rather than part of the solution. Supporting trashmasters like Alienware seems to be their new calling. GIGO... no other way to describe it. Bad input creates bad output.

Gee, thanks, Tom's Hardware. *sarcasm*

[electrosoft]

Gotta scratch this itch vs Jansen in regards to Dragonflight.....

 

I ordered a 7900xtx so I can test it myself vs my 3090/3090ti Ardenweald data, Strix 3080 and bud's 4090 Suprim and get my own grasp on it since I run a 12900k and he runs my old 12900ks.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[electrosoft]

1 hour ago, Papusan said:

Could be a long time until we will see 4090Ti or Titan. AMD just don't want to compete. And if they launc a 4090 Ti it will most likely be castrated (not with full fat ADA). Those will go into Nvidia's +6000$ cards for data centers.

 

And Nvidia seems have hard time with their overpriced xx80. The question for today... Will we see a new MSRP before January is over? Or will they hide MSRP and sell it for highest possible price people are willing to pay?

 

 

 

 

Nvidia is holding all the cards here on many levels. If AMD doesn't have the hardware to compete against the 4090 Nvidia can just sit back and milk the 4090 full cycle and release a higher tier card if they even need to for consumers but as you point out, why do that when they can just push out a crazy expensive Titan or push all that top end silicon to A series data center hardware?

 

As for the 4080, the 7900xtx does compete with it and even nips at the 4090 in select tests at a lower price till you turn on RT then it gets real ugly real fast. Raw raster vs raster? It's a competent card at a better price point. But is it enough coupled with lackluster sales of the 4080 (relatively speaking) for Nvidia to actually lower their prices?

 

I mean we are talking about Nvidia here....

 

 

[Papusan]

1 hour ago, electrosoft said:

As for the 4080, the 7900xtx does compete with it and even nips at the 4090 in select tests at a lower price till you turn on RT then it gets real ugly real fast. Raw raster vs raster? It's a competent card at a better price point. But is it enough coupled with lackluster sales of the 4080 (relatively speaking) for Nvidia to actually lower their prices?

 

I mean we are talking about Nvidia here....

If it wasn't for the better features Nvidia would be on thin ice. But better features doesn't help much if the prices is too step vs the competitors equal products. Hope AMD is able to push out as many cards they can from the XTX model. But then we have the AIC partners cards. How is the prices for custom cards from AMD vs Nvidia's custom cards? But now we are up in price point much closer to a 4090 FE. I would never ever pay 1300$ over a 1599$ 4090. Even Nvidias MSRP for 4080 would be out of question. Even a huge nope from me at 899$.

 

Who in Hell buy this? Is there anyone out there that will pay this for 4080? If so, then I undertand why Nvidia struggle hard sell out 4080.

 

Ps. Stupid prices isn't much better than stupid products. But people buy it anyway, so...

 

[Papusan]

4060 Ti comes castrated vs 3060 Ti. In other words, if you thought the RTX 4080 was disappointing, well, you ain't seen nothing yet. 

 

If these rumoured Nvidia RTX 4060 Ti specs are accurate... Just WTF pcmag.com

 

Fewer shaders than the old RTX 3060 Ti. For real.

 

It shows more and more that 4090 is the only viable option from Nvidia within this gen graphics cards. The rest is either castrated or and overpriced. And I have still not yeat coomented comming mobile graphics cards from Nvidia. A small hint what to come... 4090 on AD103 die. What a tragedy we now see coming from Nvidia this and next year.

[electrosoft]

11 hours ago, Papusan said:

If it wasn't for the better features Nvidia would be on thin ice. But better features doesn't help much if the prices is too step vs the competitors equal products. Hope AMD is able to push out as many cards they can from the XTX model. But then we have the AIC partners cards. How is the prices for custom cards from AMD vs Nvidia's custom cards? But now we are up in price point much closer to a 4090 FE. I would never ever pay 1300$ over a 1599$ 4090. Even Nvidias MSRP for 4080 would be out of question. Even a huge nope from me at 899$.

 

Who in Hell buy this? Is there anyone out there that will pay this for 4080? If so, then I undertand why Nvidia struggle hard sell out 4080.

 

Ps. Stupid prices isn't much better than stupid products. But people buy it anyway, so...

 

Exactly, Nvidia can continue to control the market to a degree because their overall feature set is just better. AMD does have very good raster performance and I do think their drivers will mature at a larger rate but Nvidia is just the complete package.

 

Even so, Steve's GN rant on the 4080 pricing was valid and eventually Nvidia will realize those lush market conditions of late 2020 to early 2022 are gone as initial sales start to fall flat and stock continues to rise.  $999 is where it starts to at least become tolerable and $899.99 ($200+ over 3080 MSRP) is less insulting.

 

The fact Nvidia tried to cram a "4080 12gb" down our throats at $899.99 is so insulting. Without AMD I think they would have stuck with it. What other choice would there have been for a performance card? Old Ampere stock? Oh wait, those prices haven't really gone down either in the mid tier.....

 

That's a 3rd party seller but even MSRP on the Strix 4080 is $1549 which is bonkers.

 

I'm sure Newegg is enjoying having their cake and eating it too as there has to be some sellers who buy from Newegg and immediately relist at higher prices so Newegg then gets another cut of the sale.

 

11 hours ago, Papusan said:

 

 

This was actually an interesting video and some of those were no better or worse than the included heatsink with the motherboard. Just about all motherboards come with at least a primary heatsink these days even many lower tier models.