*Official Benchmark Thread* - Post it here or it didn't happen :D

[ssj92]

Don't mind me, I am just warming up some old hardware

 

https://www.3dmark.com/3dmv/5931311

 

https://www.3dmark.com/3dmv/5931375

 

Oh look I'm faster than a office laptop lol

 

https://www.3dmark.com/fs/29140025

 

 

[ryan]

3 points shy of 4k

 

 

finally beat this top 2060 12gb score for desktop with my 3060

 

5100 is pretty good when the number one score is just 5800

https://www.3dmark.com/fs/25668883

[cylix]

4070ti weaker or like 3090ti..

https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidia-geforce-rtx-4070-ti-3dmark-performance-leaks-out

 

 

Happy new year everyone!

[ryan]

geeze. even a 4070ti desktop is 3x a 3060 laptop....time to evolve

[Papusan]

On 12/31/2022 at 8:30 PM, cylix said:

4070ti weaker or like 3090ti..

https://videocardz.com/newz/nvidia-geforce-rtx-4070-ti-3dmark-performance-leaks-out

 

 

Happy new year everyone!

And RTX 4070 Ti will be slower than both Radeon RX 7900 GPUs. What saves Nvidia's skin is the better features like RT. This card should never cost above 649$. This included the awful high inflatation. But AMD is also to blame for the awful new price points. 7900XT should be priced at $650. And nvidia will follow what AMD have done with the XT variant.

 

 

To you all.....

 

I hope the New Year will be better🙂 2nd in Enthusiast Season ranking 2022. Not bad with the old stuff. 

Papusan @ HWBOT

[Raiderman]

1 hour ago, Papusan said:

And RTX 4070 Ti will be slower than both Radeon RX 7900 GPUs. What saves Nvidia's skin is the better features like RT. This card should never cost above 649$. This included the awful high inflatation. But AMD is also to blame for the awful new price points. 7900XT should be priced at $650. And nvidia will follow what AMD have done with the XT variant.

 

If we could get the 🤡's to abstain from purchasing these cards at these ridiculous prices, that would be great.

 

Edit: I'd buy a 4070Ti for $649

I'd also buy a 7900Xt for $699, and a 7900xtx for $799

[ryan]

inflation. is to blame also. a 4070ti at 649.99 is about bang on

[Raiderman]

3 hours ago, ryan said:

inflation. is to blame also. a 4070ti at 649.99 is about bang on

I don't think it's inflation so much as it is greed. DDR ram isn't all that expensive, quality 8 and 12 core cpu's aren't too bad. SSD pricing isn't overwhelming.

After being out of pc tech for 3 years, it's motherboards and gpu's that I've seen skyrocket in cost. When I left, you could get a top of the line AMD board for under $300, now they are 3 times that.

[Mr. Fox]

2 minutes ago, Raiderman said:

I don't think it's inflation so much as it is green. DDR ram isn't all that expensive, quality 8 and 12 core cpu's aren't too bad. SSD pricing isn't overwhelming.

After being out of pc tech for 3 years, it's motherboards and gpu's that I've seen skyrocket in cost. When I left, you could get a top of the line AMD board for under $300, now they are 3 times that.

Even Intel motherboards are grossly overpriced. Just a mid-range Strix board will set you back $400-$500 depending on which one you settle for. The only ones priced decently are the chintzy crap models for gamer-kidz that don't care about overclocking. If you want a real enthusiast motherboard, they're generally between $600 and $1100. Asus is the worst at overcharging, which is ironic since theirs are the least reliable and have horribly poor warranty service.

[Reciever]

20 minutes ago, Raiderman said:

I don't think it's inflation so much as it is greed. DDR ram isn't all that expensive, quality 8 and 12 core cpu's aren't too bad. SSD pricing isn't overwhelming.

After being out of pc tech for 3 years, it's motherboards and gpu's that I've seen skyrocket in cost. When I left, you could get a top of the line AMD board for under $300, now they are 3 times that.

Yeah inflation is definitely part of it, but I agree that it alone doesn't make for a satisfying explanation. Especially when many companies jacked up pricing and had record profits year over year through the pandemic. 

 

 

[ryan]

i did the math 6 percent up per year for six years...things are just getting more costly but only if your income isnt going up also...which alot of people have not gotten more money...so yeah pricing is a problem. i just dont get why they are so big...a cell phone can play grid auto sport and the graphics these cards are pushing in a bigger picture really are not like going from cartoon to photo realism

[Papusan]

1 hour ago, Raiderman said:

I don't think it's inflation so much as it is greed. DDR ram isn't all that expensive, quality 8 and 12 core cpu's aren't too bad. SSD pricing isn't overwhelming.

After being out of pc tech for 3 years, it's motherboards and gpu's that I've seen skyrocket in cost. When I left, you could get a top of the line AMD board for under $300, now they are 3 times that.

Mostly greed. Regarding Cpu prices.... AMD went damn greedy when Intel couldn't compete with amount cores. They was the first one to push mainstream chip up to $799. Yep, MSRP and AMD. Back in 2020 when AMD pushed out their 5950X the inflation was normal. So 90% greed and 10% inflation.  

 

Nvidia know AMD can't compete in features, hence they continue push ugly prices after the mining crash. And AMD know they can't surpass 1000$ price point so there they will be. They are happy they can play the same game as Nviidia without doing much (maximize profits).

49 minutes ago, ryan said:

i did the math 6 percent up per year for six years...things are just getting more costly but only if your income isnt going up also...which alot of people have not gotten more money...so yeah pricing is a problem. i just dont get why they are so big...a cell phone can play grid auto sport and the graphics these cards are pushing in a bigger picture really are not like going from cartoon to photo realism

 

Nvidia could raise the prices with 15-20%. Not +70% as they did from 3080 to 4080. Thats greed. 

 

 

$699+20% = 838$. Not 1,199$ (Nvidia could sell it at $799,99 and still made good profits). And all the 4080 would sell out. Every single card.

 

This isn't inflation.  This is pure greed!

 

 

[ryan]

but from there side of the coin..they have alot of 3080s and it would be dumb to snuff them out with 4080. but yes it still doesnt add up...greed is at play

[Papusan]

12 hours ago, ryan said:

but from there side of the coin..they have alot of 3080s and it would be dumb to snuff them out with 4080. but yes it still doesnt add up...greed is at play

They could relase only the 4090 to take of some of the thunder from AMDs new overpriced cards. No need to release 4080 when they know they have lots of Ampere silicon. Just try sell out all 3080 and release 4080 together with 4080@12GB-Scam 4070Ti early spring. Whats the point throw out 30-50.000 of 4080 to the retail shops only to fill up the shelves?

 

If people don't buy them, Nvidia have to sell them at discount before or later. But there is a few stupids out there that is willing to pay mining prices, so...... 

[ryan]

yeah thats also true. greed looks dumb kinda what elon did. had 300 billion and got greedy with twitter now hes down 200 billion

[electrosoft]

So it's the actual reference VC causing the problem...

 

I'll have to re-review the WoW data we collected with the Powercolor 7900xtx. It might have been a throttling issue in there too.

 

 

[Etern4l]

13 hours ago, ryan said:

i did the math 6 percent up per year for six years...

FYI Bro, the US inflation numbers for the last 6 years are:

2022 - 7.1

2021 - 6.8

2020 - 1.2

2019 - 2.1

2018 - 2.2

20.17 - 2.2

Edit: sorry, missed Papu's post on that earlier :)

 

These are general inflation numbers though (CPI), so like I mentioned earlier not hugely relevant to the ongoing GPU pricing fiasco which is affected by the continuing chip manufacturing capacity shortfall, and further driven by the green monopolistic goblin NGreedia. Just look at the AL pricing mess, the 4080 12GB, the castration of existing Ampere models without changing the model designation etc. They publicly announced they are going to manipulate prices to extract max profits. I wonder if FTC shouldn't be taking a look.

 

We should also remember that normally tech gets significantly cheaper in terms of performance/price. Look at Intel - same price as last year, but performance up at least 30-40%! Ferocious competition can work wonders, plus I think differences in company ethos and leadership play a role as well, as Intel wasn't really ripping people off to the same extent when AMD wasn't breathing down their necks. Intel has its owns fabs though, which is obviously helping these days.

 

Anyway, Happy New Year folks, may it at least not be worse than the previous one again. The bar is fairly low, come on 2023 - you can do it!

 

 

[Papusan]

11 hours ago, electrosoft said:

So it's the actual reference VC causing the problem...

 

I'll have to re-review the WoW data we collected with the Powercolor 7900xtx. It might have been a throttling issue in there too.

 

 

Smart move from AMD scrap the idea use the new modern 600W power connector. They probably saw that if they added +400w vbios for their MBA cards it would be a huge throttle show/fest😀 And I'm quite sure they have seen the same temperature behaviour/problem in the development/engineering of the new reference cards and just throw it out. They don't only test 3, 4, 5 or 10  cards before the production of the cards start up. 100% sure they relied on the 110C is within specs to cover their back when this fired back. 

 

 

And this is bad news for those that hope for more decent prices on new graphics cards. 

On 12/29/2022 at 4:55 AM, Papusan said:

What an awful fix..... 

 

 They are also looking into firmware updates to fix isolated incidents where a software fix would be necessary instead of a hardware replacement. "Kevin" also discusses edge heating, the temperature near the edge of the silicon on a GPU, stating that 90° edge temperatures are abnormal, but 70° edge temperatures are nominal.

 

On 12/29/2022 at 5:22 AM, Mr. Fox said:

Well. Hmm. That sucks. Nice response from AMD, too. How reassuring, LOL. Should be interesting to see what kind of software fix is going to take care of what der8auer already proved was a mechanical problem.

Will be fun see what AMD will do with own flawed design solutions. They themself said..... 

 

Recently, AMD took the leaf out of its mouth and confirmed that "a limited number of users are experiencing unexpected thermal throttling", urging them to contact AMD's support page. Alongside this official acknowledgment that something may be wrong.

 

 

 

And Microsoft's never ending screw up's doesn't exactly help on the mood for the Red side of the fence.......

 

Windows 11 22H2 Patch Tuesday apparently causing freezing issues on AMD Ryzen PCs

 

 

This issue also happend after KB5019980, which we uninstalled. Now this update reintroduces this issue again. Uninstalling the new update, resloved the issue again. Unplugging/plugging USB devices will cause the system to resume again.

[electrosoft]

8 hours ago, Etern4l said:

FYI Bro, the US inflation numbers for the last 6 years are:

2022 - 7.1

2021 - 6.8

2020 - 1.2

2019 - 2.1

2018 - 2.2

20.17 - 2.2

Edit: sorry, missed Papu's post on that earlier 🙂

 

These are general inflation numbers though (CPI), so like I mentioned earlier not hugely relevant to the ongoing GPU pricing fiasco which is affected by the continuing chip manufacturing capacity shortfall, and further driven by the green monopolistic goblin NGreedia. Just look at the AL pricing mess, the 4080 12GB, the castration of existing Ampere models without changing the model designation etc. They publicly announced they are going to manipulate prices to extract max profits. I wonder if FTC shouldn't be taking a look.

 

We should also remember that normally tech gets significantly cheaper in terms of performance/price. Look at Intel - same price as last year, but performance up at least 30-40%! Ferocious competition can work wonders, plus I think differences in company ethos and leadership play a role as well, as Intel wasn't really ripping people off to the same extent when AMD wasn't breathing down their necks. Intel has its owns fabs though, which is obviously helping these days.

 

Anyway, Happy New Year folks, may it at least not be worse than the previous one again. The bar is fairly low, come on 2023 - you can do it!

 

 

 

I would never expect 2022 prices to match 2020 prices. That doesn't make any sense on any level just based off the CPI.

Let's give Nvidia a ~10% profit bump since they are a for profit corporation and their job is to deliver maximum value/profits to their share holders. Let's even toss in 2020 inflation in there and we're looking at what? 15.1%?

 

4070ti = ~690. Nvidia 10% profit courtesy bump =  $759.99 ($799.99 retail) (Not terrible. Not good)

4080 =   ~805. Nvidia 10% profit courtesy bump = $899.99 ($1199.99 retail) (Highway robbery)

4090 =  ~1726. Nvidia 10% profit courtesy bump = $1899.99 (An actual much better value than the 3090)

 

The 4090 is clearly a "good deal" (relatively speaking). 4070ti isn't full on highway robbery but protect your valuables. 4080 is flat out robbing us blind.

 

I'm not sure what laws Nvidia would be breaking in regards to the FTC setting their own prices. It is early on but AMD continues to sell out everywhere. I'm sure by ~Feb 2023 (30-50 days from now) we will really get to see things settle down as we emerge from the holiday season and start to move into GPU saturation a touch past early adopters.

 

I've seen plenty of 4090s stagnating on eBay now at their inflated prices which is a good sign.

 

Applying these metrics to AMDs cards the 7900xt/xtx:

 

7900xtx = ~1151. AMD 10% profit courtesy bump = $1266 ($999.99 retail) (an actual much better value than the 6900xt)

7900xt = ~746. AMD  10% profit courtesy bump =  $820 ($899.99 retail) (Not terrible. Not good. Same as 4070ti)

 

I'm not sure what kind of "price cuts" people are expecting but for starters the 4080 definitely needs to come down to reality. That is just gross profiteering. 4070ti and 7900xt could also use a shave. 4090 isn't going anywhere down price wise and neither is the 7900xtx anytime soon.

 

 

2 hours ago, Papusan said:

Smart move from AMD scrap the idea use the new modern 600W power connector. They probably saw that if they added +400w vbios for their MBA cards it would be a huge throttle show/fest😀 And I'm sure they have seen the same in the development and just throw it out. They don't only test 3 or 4, 5 or 10  cards before the production of the cards start. 100% sure they relied on the 110C is within specs. 
 

And this is bad news for those that hope for more decent prices on new graphics cards. 

 

Will be fun see what AMD will do with own flawed design solutions. They themself said..... 

 

Recently, AMD took the leaf out of its mouth and confirmed that "a limited number of users are experiencing unexpected thermal throttling", urging them to contact AMD's support page. Alongside this official acknowledgment that something may be wrong.

 

 

 

Well yeah no way AMD is going to stand up on the podium and go, "Yeah we totally screwed the pooch on this one."

 

3rd party designs aren't suffering the same fate luckily.

 

Looking at some MSI/GPUZ logs today from our WoW FP DF runs, it looks like the PowerColor 7900xtx he picked up (and has since returned) to MC was indeed hitting ~110 on the HS numerous times with throttling. I'm going to just (re)pick up an XFX Merc 7900xtx from BB and retest again since it has one of the beefier custom HSF out there. Hopefully my 10% off coupon still works (fingers crossed).

 

 

[Mr. Fox]

12 hours ago, electrosoft said:

So it's the actual reference VC causing the problem...

 

I'll have to re-review the WoW data we collected with the Powercolor 7900xtx. It might have been a throttling issue in there too.

 

 

I was going to share that and checked first. I just watched it and thought it was pretty interesting (and sad).

---

Happy New Year everyone!

[Papusan]

1 hour ago, electrosoft said:

Well yeah no way AMD is going to stand up on the podium and go, "Yeah we totally screwed the pooch on this one."

Could be the mods or fanboys at reddit want to delete my post.... 

 

 

1 hour ago, Mr. Fox said:

I was going to share that and checked first. I just watched it and thought it was pretty interesting (and sad).

[Etern4l]

2 hours ago, electrosoft said:

 

I would never expect 2022 prices to match 2020 prices.

 

I am not sure 2020/2021 are great reference points for the GPU market, due to severe distortion by "cryptodicks" (C) @Raiderman

 

2 hours ago, electrosoft said:

I'm not sure what laws Nvidia would be breaking in regards to the FTC setting their own prices.

 

Yeah, looks like the FTC is more focused on maintaining fair competition, and in that regard high prices are of no concern as they actually encourage the somewhat impotent Mr Azor&Co. to try to raise up to the occasion, so to speak :)

Perversely, pricing too low would expose NVidia to FTC investigation. There is no consumer protection mandate there :(                      

From that point of view AMDs presence in the GPU market seems a bit useless. They don't produce viable GPUs, they overcharge too, and thus support Nvidia's pricing. Perhaps FTC could look into possible price fixing, but without a smoking gun it's hopeless. 

[Papusan]

28 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

I am not sure 2020/2021 are great reference points for the GPU market, due to severe distortion by ""

Why not? We talk about MSRP. Not scalper prices or cryptodicks.

[Etern4l]

1 minute ago, Papusan said:

Why not? We talk about MSRP. Not scalper prices or cryptodicks.

 

3090Ti at $2k MSRP. 

[Papusan]

16 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

 

3090Ti at $2k MSRP. 

And 3090Ti = Name change from Titan. So a lot cheaper than previous gen Titan cards. 3080 and 3080 Ti was their high end flagship Geforce gaming cards.

 

Edit: GeForce RTX 3080: The New Flagship