*Official Benchmark Thread* - Post it here or it didn't happen :D

[Mr. Fox]

30 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

It's second-hand stuff so who knows why it is the way it is. Could have been a dud from the beginning, or could have taken some hard to spot damage at the hand(s) of previous owners. The fact that it was supposed a 2022 model but isn't tells us a lot about the seller. 

Agreed about the dishonesty part, but being a 2021 or 2022 does not in itself guarantee greatness or lack thereof.

[tps3443]

45 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

It's second-hand stuff so who knows why it is the way it is. Could have been a dud from the beginning, or could have taken some hard to spot damage at the hand(s) of previous owners. The fact that it was supposed a 2022 model but isn't tells us a lot about the seller. 

I think it’s a 2021 model sold as a 2022 lol. The 2022 Apex boards received major updates to the dimm soldering, traces, and cpu pins apparently. (Some said the 2022 was over re-engineered) so the 2022 Apex’s were just killer boards. Unfortunately not that many out there in the wild. The Apex is an already exclusive product! Always sold out. 

[Papusan]

 

On 3/27/2023 at 8:28 PM, Mr. Fox said:

The EKWB Velocity2 direct die kit left a lot to be desired in terms of results. It was built like a Swiss watch, with impeccable precision and quality. But, the cooling results just were not there.

 

@Mr. Fox Here is the culprit for your bad experience with EK Direct Die kit. Their QC is shrinking - stinking for both for GPU and Cpu blocks. And I expect this is why some reviewers (paid shills) got OK results from the direct Die kit while others not so good (variable quality). But do they post or make a press release about it? Nope. This is bad from a big company. And it's bad that no big tech YouTube channel talk about it. Date of the post... April 3, 2023. I wonder how many that have bought the EK kit and accepted the thermal results and moved on. They will never know that they was screwed by EKs awful QC.

 

 

[Mr. Fox]

1 hour ago, Papusan said:

 

 

@Mr. Fox Here is the culprit for your bad experience with EK Direct Die kit. Their QC is shrinking - stinking for both for GPU and Cpu blocks. And I expect this is why some reviewers (paid shills) got OK results from the direct Die kit while others not so good (variable quality). But do they post or make a press release about it? Nope. This is bad from a big company. And it's bad that no big tech YouTube channel talk about it. Date of the post... April 3, 2023. I wonder how many that have bought the EK kit and accepted the thermal results and moved on. They will never know that they was screwed by EKs awful QC.

 

 

Thanks. I posted in that thread and asked them to reopen my case and send me the new parts. I would love to be able to use it. It is beautiful but does not work as intended.

 

What makes this a bad reflection on them is that they never contacted me with the solution. I am having to find the information without their help (thanks to your help) and ask them to reopen my support case and fix the problem for me. They should have proactively contacted me to inform me that they have a solution to my issue instead of me having to pursue them.

 

https://www.overclock.net/threads/ek-velocity-2-direct-die-problems.1804920/page-4#post-29169460

 

 

I was an early adopter and one of the first to receive the new defective product, had lots of communication with them about it starting more than a month ago. They ended with a "we're sorry" email and now I am having to come back and ask them to make things right again. Would have been much better for them to have contacted me with "we have a solution and we are making this right" email. I sent them numerous videos and information. I should have been one of the first they contacted proactively and nothing.
 

 

 

 

 

[ssj92]

Slowly making my way up. 8th place global 4090n FS and 28th TS 

 

 

[Papusan]

35 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

Thanks. I posted in that thread and asked them to reopen my case and send me the new parts. I would love to be able to use it. It is beautiful but does not work as intended.

 

What makes this a bad reflection on them is that they never contacted me with the solution. I am having to find the information without their help (thanks to your help) and ask them to reopen my support case and fix the problem for me. They should have proactively contacted me to inform me that they have a solution to my issue instead of me having to pursue them.

 

https://www.overclock.net/threads/ek-velocity-2-direct-die-problems.1804920/page-4#post-29169460

 

 

I was an early adopter and one of the first to receive the new defective product, had lots of communication with them about it starting more than a month ago. They ended with a "we're sorry" email and now I am having to come back and ask them to make things right again. Would have been much better for them to have contacted me with "we have a solution and we are making this right" email. I sent them numerous videos and information. I should have been one of the first they contacted proactively and nothing.
 

 

 

 

 

You're welcome my friend. Just sad you need to hunt down info when the manufacturer could offer a fix. Or it could be they wasn't avare that it was a major problem when you returned the block. They should have made a press release on theirown web page about this. As well posted a short video on their own YouTube channel. But I expect they will try avoid bad press and save some costs. Yep, todays tech and QC, sucks.

[Mr. Fox]

37 minutes ago, Papusan said:

You're welcome my friend. Just sad you need to hunt down info when the manufacturer could offer a fix. Or it could be they wasn't avare that it was a major problem when you returned the block. They should have made a press release on theirown web page about this. As well posted a short video on their own YouTube channel. But I expect they will try avoid bad press and save some costs. Yep, todays tech and QC, sucks.

I still have it. They refused to do anything and said my stupid high temperatures were "as expected" for my overclock. I am asking them to make it right now.

 

Below is the last email exchange with EKWB from 3 weeks ago when they told me it worked as intended.

 

 

Quote

 

Here's a 30 min R23 run 57x/45x.

 

 

Looks like a huge improvement. Is this with the replacement parts from EKWB, or the lapped cold plate? With the original defective parts that would have been not doable due to overheating.

 

What is so baffling to me is they went to great effort to create a magnificently engineered and beautiful work of art, but released it with a design defect that prevented it from functioning correctly when the solution  to the problem is such a ridiculously easy correction to a stupid mistake. I was so excited until I turned my system on and found stupid temperatures that were worse than using the stock IHS on my already delidded CPU.

These are the unlisted YouTube videos I provided to EKWB already. If they make this right I will do a public review and give them credit for resolving the issue and doing the right thing. If they do not make it right, then I will do a negative video review exposing them for releasing a defective product and refusing to fix it for me, even though they fixed it for other customers, and include links to that thread for others to post their bad experience.

 

 

[tps3443]

I’m back with my MSI Unify-X!!! I re-assembled everything quickly and it loads windows right away at my 6.1P/4.8E/5.1R this is a profile that either of my 13th gen K or KS will run for daily usage. 
 

The Z690 Apex was beautiful looking piece of equipment. But, it didn’t perform. I won’t be so quick to swap a motherboard again! It would take a Z790 Dark/ Z790 Apex. And only a legit Z690 Apex. (but even then It would be tough to put any Z690 Apex to the test again)
 

Okay, let’s get it Unify-X. I missed you dearly!! 🥹

[Mr. Fox]

4 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

I’m back with my MSI Unify-X!!! I re-assembled everything quickly and it loads windows right away at my 6.1P/4.8E/5.1R this is a profile that either of my 13th gen K or KS will run for daily usage. 
 

The Z690 Apex was beautiful looking piece of equipment. But, it didn’t perform. I won’t be so quick to swap a motherboard again! It would take a Z790 Dark/ Z790 Apex. And only a legit Z690 Apex. (but even then It would be tough to put any Z690 Apex to the test again)
 

Okay, let’s get it Unify-X. I missed you dearly!! 🥹

Sounds like there is very little difference between your K and KS when installed in a motherboard that functions correctly.

Awesome.

[tps3443]

10 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

Sounds like there is very little difference between your K and KS when installed in a motherboard that functions correctly.

Awesome.

I really don’t think either is better than the other in significant way. The KS doesn’t have as good of E-Cores, or as good of a Ring as the 13900K does, but the KS can run slightly lower P-Core voltages. 
 

For example you can bench/game on the 13900K with 5.3Ghz ring. But the KS would lock up loading windows lol.

 

I’m also running 15C water daily, so during ambient water that KS could vary well collapse under the regular 13900K with that much higher P-SP rating. 

[Papusan]

https://hwbot.org/submission/5245045_papusan_3dmark03_geforce_rtx_3070_342249_marks

 

https://hwbot.org/submission/5245047_papusan_3dmark05_geforce_rtx_3070_101462_marks?recalculate=true

 

 

Edit. The Double in 3DM Vantage for RTX3070 🙂

 

https://hwbot.org/submission/5245056_papusan_3dmark_vantage___performance_geforce_rtx_3070_142981_marks?recalculate=true

 

https://hwbot.org/submission/5245058_papusan_3dmark_vantage___extreme_geforce_rtx_3070_94356_marks?recalculate=true

 

[Mr. Fox]

On a happier note, the Cuplex Kryos block that I used to have on Wraith looks great on Banshee. As was the case before, CPU temps are identical to the OptimusPC Foundation block. So, nothing to complain about, and a nice little "extra" benefit having the coolant temperature monitored. One of these days I am going to grab another memory waterblock so I can get rid of the tacky-looking Noctua fans blowing on the RAM.

And, this is what I love about the stock ribbon cables that come with the Corsair RM1200x SHIFT PSU. They look great and they are SO MUCH easier to manage than round cables with sleeves. They take up comparatively little space and look very neat and clean. That is three 8-pin GPU power cables in this compact bundle.

[Etern4l]

@Talon What curing process did you use for PTM7958 paste? I've read recommendations of 15h air curing which is a bit painful, hut also dubious. Doesn't sound llke a very practical process in an industrial setting. 

 

  

11 hours ago, Papusan said:

 

@Mr. Fox Here is the culprit for your bad experience with EK Direct Die kit. Their QC is shrinking - stinking for both for GPU and Cpu blocks. And I expect this is why some reviewers (paid shills) got OK results from the direct Die kit while others not so good (variable quality).

 

The shills can help them take some newbies, but they won't fool the regulars. A quick look through posts on OC reveals the typical commentary around EK is "err, get something better".

[Mr. Fox]

23 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

@Talon What curing process did you use for PTM7958 paste? I've read recommendations of 15h air curing which is a bit painful, hut also dubious. Doesn't sound llke a very practical process in an industrial setting. 

 

  

 

The shills can help them take some newbies, but they won't fool the regulars. A quick look through posts on OC reveals the typical commentary around EK is "err, get something better".

If they don't take care of me they'll be on my brand to avoid list like Asus. I can probably lap the cold plate and get the results I want but I really don't want to destroy the nickel finish that is ideally suited for liquid metal. I can't really even sell it with a clear conscience because I know that would be selling something that does not work to someone that doesn't know better. That would make me no better than the scumbag that screwed brother @tps3443selling him a defective Apex.

 

I think I could release a pretty harmful video on YouTube if EK don't make this right.

[Etern4l]

42 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

If they don't take care of me they'll be on my brand to avoid list like Asus. I can probably lap the cold plate and get the results I want but I really don't want to destroy the nickel finish that is ideally suited for liquid metal. I can't really even sell it with a clear conscience because I know that would be selling something that does not work to someone that doesn't know better. That would make me no better than the scumbag that screwed brother @tps3443selling him a defective Apex.

 

I think I could release a pretty harmful video on YouTube if EK don't make this right.

 

My guess is they will, but in general I find all this surprising. I could kind of understand occasional QC issues (although not really when it comes to water cooling rather expensive equipment) if they were a budget brand who are forced to cut corners here and there to deliver at an aggressive price point. On the contrary, seems that EKWB, a rather expensive brand, are big on marketing - Apple-grade packaging and huge reviews with hand written notes from the owner delivered by the likes of Linus, Jay etc. That's where at least some of the QC money must be going.   

[Talon]

2 hours ago, Etern4l said:

@Talon What curing process did you use for PTM7958 paste? I've read recommendations of 15h air curing which is a bit painful, hut also dubious. Doesn't sound llke a very practical process in an industrial setting. 

 

  

 

The shills can help them take some newbies, but they won't fool the regulars. A quick look through posts on OC reveals the typical commentary around EK is "err, get something better".

 

Honestly I went with the quick, spread and cure with heat while using it. I haven't had any issues and it's holding up.

 

@tps3443https://www.provantage.com/asus-rogmaximusz790apex~7ASUS3WH.htm

 

If you don't mind waiting a few weeks and want the real deal Apex this might be a good way to get one below MSRP/scalper prices. I've used this company quite a few times and they are great. Even allow returns within 30 days if not happy for any reason. I recently returned some laptop DDR5 and it was no questions asked easy RMA. You will wait about 2 weeks to get your $$$ back, but they've always accepted returns. I've also returned a CPU in the past. Their prices are usually great, beating almost all competitors. The ram I mentioned was also special order for me, and it shipped same day lol! The product wasn't in their warehouse, so they order direct from manufacturer and it shipped same day. Not saying that will happen, but usually their special orders move quickly. It's sorta like cutting out the middle-middle man. 

[ryan]

32FPS HALFLIFE 2 4k

32FPS grid autosport medium/high 4k

 

I honestly can't believe I can run these games at 4k its only 3000 years old. was expecting the igpu to run games a touch better after reading its review. they claim 60fps high setting in gta v thats why I jumped on it as Im not a big gamer and dont mind waiting a month for my omen. but ill be testing out gta v at 4k low and hopefully i get the magic 24-30

 

update 42 at 1080p

 

my card is half speed any advice

 

below average stock

 

 

does 1440p with flying colors

 

[Etern4l]

1 hour ago, Talon said:

 

Honestly I went with the quick, spread and cure with heat while using it. I haven't had any issues and it's holding up.

 

Great stuff. Yeah, I couldn't find any official advice to cure this product that way, as suggested I think mainly on reddit lol. It makes no sense, who would do that on an assembly line. For now the noname 7950 on the die + (Alphacool) Apex on the IHS setup is holding up as well, but expect Apex to degrade at some point.

 

@ryan

This is the laptop, right? https://support.hp.com/ca-en/document/c07006511

I would suggest you take it easy with benching on this. I was going to say "see if you can hook up an eGPU (a small step towards the desktop space)", unfortunately there is no TB port.

There is a ton of stuff you can do on this device, just don't worry about pushing the envelope too much.

[ryan]

thanks bro. Yes thats the one. i bought it for 320 and its in mint condition so not a bad deal. the cpu seems to be above average but the igpu is below haha go figure as they are linked.

 

heres geek bench 6

 

4945 which is above the category average.

 

something nice!

 

[Mr. Fox]

1 hour ago, Talon said:

 

Honestly I went with the quick, spread and cure with heat while using it. I haven't had any issues and it's holding up.

 

@tps3443https://www.provantage.com/asus-rogmaximusz790apex~7ASUS3WH.htm

 

If you don't mind waiting a few weeks and want the real deal Apex this might be a good way to get one below MSRP/scalper prices. I've used this company quite a few times and they are great. Even allow returns within 30 days if not happy for any reason. I recently returned some laptop DDR5 and it was no questions asked easy RMA. You will wait about 2 weeks to get your $$$ back, but they've always accepted returns. I've also returned a CPU in the past. Their prices are usually great, beating almost all competitors. The ram I mentioned was also special order for me, and it shipped same day lol! The product wasn't in their warehouse, so they order direct from manufacturer and it shipped same day. Not saying that will happen, but usually their special orders move quickly. It's sorta like cutting out the middle-middle man. 

I just ordered a CPU from them. I spoke to a salesman and confirmed the 100% satisfaction guaranteed applied to the CPU. So, if I get it and it is a lousy sample I have 30 days to return it for refund no questions asked.

 

He could not tell me what an "embargo" 13900KS is, but my logic is that it was a first batch intended for reviewers and may be (hopefully) cream of the crop silicon quality. I guess we will find out. And, I will know within 5 minutes or less if it is a keeper or an RMA candidate.

 

A couple of years ago I never would have bought a tray CPU because they have no warranty from Intel. They are for bulk sales and system builders and the seller has to provide a warranty. But, now that Intel no longer offer the performance tuning warranty and they arbitrarily void your warranty if you admit to overclocking the CPU or memory, buying a boxed retail CPU is pointless unless you plan to lie to Intel and hope they believe you.

[tps3443]

This is my below average 13900KS (SP104) 

 

Good or bad? 
 

 

[Talon]

42 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

This is my below average 13900KS (SP104) 

 

Good or bad? 
 

 

 

With enough cooling, even a lowly binned SP104 is good. 

 

I have you beat though. I have an SP103 13900KS lol. I believe it's the lowest possible score that meets the Intel cutoff for KS. Talk about hitting the lottery!

[Etern4l]

1 hour ago, tps3443 said:

This is my below average 13900KS (SP104) 

 

Good or bad? 
 

 

 

Nice. Would be really useful to know if the chip can survive extended loads of that kind (380W) with an excellent direct die cooling system at 80C.

 

These guys are saying: no, since the high current is still a problem: 

 

Obviously not the whole story, since die size must be a factor, but unfortunately 13th gen die is fairly small in relation to the power involved.

 

Looking a bit deeper, multiple mechanisms are involved, broadly:

1. High temps (ok, controlled with in a setup like @tps3443's)

2. Temp cycling - not a problem under constant load

3. Electromigration - sadly that's it, a function of the current unfortunately. The question would be to what extent running the CPU at 380W instead of the rated 250W would reduce reliability.

[tps3443]

18 minutes ago, Talon said:

 

With enough cooling, even a lowly binned SP104 is good. 

 

I have you beat though. I have an SP103 13900KS lol. I believe it's the lowest possible score that meets the Intel cutoff for KS. Talk about hitting the lottery!

hey man, a KS is a KS!!! Direct die and roll on. 

I couldn’t get anything more out of even an SP117 13900KS. So, I’m really wondering what’s the point? KS is just good either way! 
 

The difference in voltage between SP104 and SP117 is so minimal. 
 

I bought a KS, it’s an SP104! Lol. Binning done. 😂

[tps3443]

53 minutes ago, Etern4l said:

 

Nice. Would be really useful to know if the chip can survive extended loads of that kind (380W) with an excellent direct die cooling system at 80C.

 

These guys are saying: no, since the high current is still a problem: 

 

Obviously not the whole story, since die size must be a factor, but unfortunately 13th gen die is fairly small in relation to the power involved.

 

Looking a bit deeper, multiple mechanisms are involved, broadly:

1. High temps (ok, controlled with in a setup like @tps3443's)

2. Temp cycling - not a problem under constant load

3. Electromigration - sadly that's it, a function of the current unfortunately

13900KS is rated to 320 watts and around 311 amps, and 100+ Celsius or so. I’m right at 379 watts Power out, and 280 amps. This is all within spec, and running nice and cool! 
 

My 13900K has been in service since December. And always ran at 6.0Ghz+ with nice and low temps. No degradation.

 

I avoid high temps, and I stay away from long extended stress tests. I conduct stability testing through real world situations most of the time. I degraded my Intel 7980XE a good bit by hammering heavy loads constantly and high temps always 90C+ it lost that edge fast on an AIO cooler.