*Official Benchmark Thread* - Post it here or it didn't happen :D

[tps3443]

Ordering up some more Koolance QD3’s in preparation for being able to easily remove the test bench/computer from the chiller and tank, and also the tank from the chiller. Koolance QD3’s really are amazing. I wish I could get them a little cheaper though. 

If anyone has any on here they wish to sell in 10/16 or G1/4 and 10/16 let me know. I’ll take all the Koolance QD3’s I can get. 
 

@Mr. Fox I ordered a Koolance filter too! I am going to place it right at the inlet going in to the PC, and I might even get another for the outlet from the PC going back to the chiller/tank just to be sure it filters anything going in PC, and also filters things going out of the PC.
 

I’m gonna flush this thing before I tear it down for the move and I want it to be as easy as possible to do this. I want the tank, chiller, and test bench to all be easily separated in to just 3 pieces once I need to do so. 
 

When I set them up in the new place I want the tank and chiller to be installed inside a deep low cabinet. Im going to vent one side of the cabinet and install some fans inside of the cabinet for airflow. But I don’t want the chiller or tank to be visible while inside the room.
 

 

upload images postimg

[electrosoft]

6 hours ago, Raiderman said:

I have not kept up very well lately. Is the 14900k subpar? Does anyone have one in the forums here? Being a somewhat loyal AMD guy, I've been used to subpar cpu's for a number of years. I guess I've been kind of that way since the K6 days. The last Intel system I built goes way back to the Pentium III Era.

 

Funny I was going down memory lane the other day with a guildie who is die hard AMD and telling him how much AMD/ATi hardware I've used over the years.

 

My first AMD cpu was the Athlon X2 4800 and then I bought a FX-63 as a "goodbye to Socket 939" and gave the X2 4800 to my brother who ran that thing till 2011. Intel introduced their Core and then Nehalem architecture and AMD basically was getting blasted (a little less and less during 1000 then 3000 series) till the 5000 series then hopped on board but USB issues drove me back into the arms of Intel with 11th then 12th. Switched to 7000 series after 7800X3D dropped last year. Ran Intel 13900KS while sorting out my dead motherboard issue then back to AMD.

 

GPU wise? Well, after 3Dfx went under, I was die hard ATi till late 2004 then went back and forth between ATi/Nvidia till 2009 when the GTX 280 dropped in 2009 then actually went back to Radeon for their 7000 series cards (7970) in 2011 and ran that till I picked up a 980 in 2014 then 1080/1080ti (KPE actually) right before the crypto market sent prices soaring then back to Radeon for the 5700xt ran that till the 3090 and here we are.....round 3 with the 7900xtx incoming and 4090 just purring away since January 2023.

 

------------------------

 

As for Intel, well, this is a taste of Skylake stretching all over again and I'm calling this Alderlake++++ and we're at the end END of this node and it is being pushed to the redline so chips that are officially "ok" are hot and heavy.

 

As @Mr. Fox referenced, some get really up in arms when returning CPUs.

 

There's two schools of thought here:

 

Those who say regardless of how hot and heavy is it running, but is it running? After you get into the BIOS and tune it up or get the proper cooling, is it performing per Intel specs? Yes, then it is what it is and returning them is unethical.

 

Then there are others who say there needs to be a cut off and if a chip is running that hot and heavy and pulling that much power to meet spec and requires tuning to run as intended, that is unacceptable and back it goes.

 

Me? I don't need a reason to return a chip that just isn't doing it for me performance wise. I don't want it. It isn't as good as I want and it's my money and back you go. Some say you should sell them at a small loss. No thank you. I don't need to justify it. I'm just returning it. If you want to sit in the corner and get butt hurt because I'm using the retail return mechanisms to return a product I am unsatisfied with for whatever reasons go right ahead  and cry in your blanky.

 

 

 

5 hours ago, Raiderman said:

Looks like Intel caught cheating again....

https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/cpus/spec-invalidates-2600-intel-cpu-benchmarks-says-companys-compiler-used-unfair-optimizations-that-boosted-performance

 

I mean cut them some slack.....AMD is absolutely trouncing Intel in that segment. 🤣

 

Ryzen Master Utility was recently updated. I'll take a look at it later

[Papusan]

When you all is so hunged up in AMD. Here is a new review of their most anti-consumer product in long time. 

 

This one is one of the "new" AM4 processors AMD has recently released. Binned silicon repackaged as a new product. 

 

What is the proper English definisjon of Scammy? Scam product or scam company?🤔

 

AMD Ryzen 7 5700 Review: A Scammy CPU? techspot.com

 

Rather than a slightly reduced 5700X – the 5700 is actually a 5700G – but with the integrated graphics disabled. This means the 32 MB L3 cache of the 5700X has been reduced to 16 MB, a significant reduction that will impact performance. It also lacks PCI Express 4.0 support, limiting PCIe bandwidth to the 3.0 specification, another major downgrade.

 

What We Learned
So there you have it, the most anti-consumer product we've seen from AMD in some time. What do you think? 

[electrosoft]

1 hour ago, Papusan said:

When you all is so hunged up in AMD. Here is a new review of their most anti-consumer product in long time. 

 

This one is one of the "new" AM4 processors AMD has recently released. Binned silicon repackaged as a new product. 

 

What is the proper English definisjon of Scammy? Scam product or scam company?🤔

 

AMD Ryzen 7 5700 Review: A Scammy CPU? techspot.com

 

Rather than a slightly reduced 5700X – the 5700 is actually a 5700G – but with the integrated graphics disabled. This means the 32 MB L3 cache of the 5700X has been reduced to 16 MB, a significant reduction that will impact performance. It also lacks PCI Express 4.0 support, limiting PCIe bandwidth to the 3.0 specification, another major downgrade.

 

What We Learned
So there you have it, the most anti-consumer product we've seen from AMD in some time. What do you think? 

 

Nothing new for AMD. They did it with my old Acer Swift 3 when it had a 5700U in it making you think it was 5000 series Zen3 when it was actually a repackaged Zen2 while the 5800U was Zen3 all within the same product/life cycle. The product page USED to say "Zen2 architecture" for the 5700U but they removed that pretty quickly while 5800U page still says "Zen3 architecture" on the bottom.

 

They aren't hiding the details. They're just not announcing them with the same vigor as some of their early GPU/CPU  "best light" presentation benchmarks and not showing them in their overall or worst light. Kinda how like they led most to think there was an actual physical doubling of the CUs in their 7000 series GPUs when it was actually same CUs with double FP and they never corrected it or gave clarification.

 

These marketing tactics fall under a grey area of scummy as you can find the info out there if a consumer does their due diligence but they aren't blaring their trumpets to show any product shortcomings.

 

 

In other words, just another corporation...er...."corperating"

 

 

[Papusan]

On 2/16/2024 at 5:14 PM, Etern4l said:

@Raiderman @Mr. Fox

 

Interesting. Reading articles and posts I was under the impression that with a good pump there is so much flow that any bubbles would get blown off surfaces and captured by the coolant. People are talking about the flow being so fast that the bubbles are almost impossible to see in the tubes due to their velocity. It’s easier to see why trapped air would be more of a problem in a block though. @Papusan time to rethink those black tubes bro?

Nope. Me have the dual pumps running full speed 24/7 also after bleeding/filling. Air Bubbles and foam gets cleared out quite quickly and you can't hear any bubble song as many hear weeks after they filled the loop. More than one single pump also help on this process and longivity. Yup, I won't go with clear tubes. Never ever. And "all black" matters. For me. Black theme is always better than fancy colored coolant and RGB. And nothing beat  EPDM rubber tubing. Use it and you'll have piece of mind. Years forwards. Be as papusan. Act as Papusan🙂

 

Even the best clear tubes can't be compared to EPDM rubber tubes. They aren't close.

 

Edit. If you are scared for not being able to see any possible bubbles in the loop with use of black tubes then buy a glass tube filter. They come in different shapes and lenght.  Will do the same job. Up to the people what they want or not. Me not. Me want it black🤪

[Mr. Fox]

39 minutes ago, Papusan said:

Even the best clear tubes can't be compared to EPDM rubber tubes. They aren't close.

This is only a matter of personal preference. They don't need to be "close" and I am not sure how to even measure that. I want clear tubing and I don't want to pay a lot for it. EPDM rubber tubing costs more than I am willing to spend. EPDM doesn't make my system faster, run cooler, or provide any other benefit that I can measure. I would buy it if I wanted my tubing to be black and not see-through. It's not that I do not like it. I do like it. I think it looks really good. But, it's just as simple as I want clear tubing so I can see what is happening in any part of my loop. And, I like how clear tubing looks. And, I like not spending a lot of money on tubing.

[Papusan]

21 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

This is only a matter of personal preference. They don't need to be "close" and I am not sure how to even measure that. I want clear tubing and I don't want to pay a lot for it. EPDM rubber tubing costs more than I am willing to spend. EPDM doesn't make my system faster, run cooler, or provide any other benefit that I can measure. I would buy it if I wanted my tubing to be black and not see-through. It's not that I do not like it. I do like it. I think it looks really good. But, it's just as simple as I want clear tubing so I can see what is happening in any part of my loop. And, I like how clear tubing looks. And, I like not spending a lot of money on tubing.

Not so fast bro Fox🙂

 

I cheched the invoice. I paid $22 USD for the 3m black EPDM rubber tubing. And that with 25% tax included on top of the "nice" blown up Norwegian prices. If I bought same brand tubing but in clear I pay $29 USD. So more expensive. Can't beat double up or tripple. Cheaper, less maintance and it fits my black build. Yep it's matter of personal preference... But save money on top is the icing on the cake🙂 

[Mr. Fox]

1 hour ago, Papusan said:

Not so fast bro Fox🙂

 

I cheched the invoice. I paid $22 USD for the 3m black EPDM rubber tubing. And that with 25% tax included on top of the "nice" blown up Norwegian prices. If I bought same brand tubing but in clear I pay $29 USD. So more expensive. Can't beat double up or tripple. Cheaper, less maintance and it fits my black build. Yep it's matter of personal preference... But save money on top is the icing on the cake🙂 

I cannot find any EPDM rubber tubing for as little as I pay for my clear tubing. I pay less than $1.75 per foot for the good stuff and about $1.50 per foot for the stiff industrial stuff that I use to run long lengths of tubing to the chiller.

 

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt-1-2-in-I-D-x-3-4-in-O-D-x-10-ft-Clear-Vinyl-Tubing-T10006011/304185143 
Everbilt industrial tubing @ $1.25/ft

 

https://www.performance-pcs.com/water-cooling/water-tubing-soft-hard/pvc-soft-tubing/mayhems-ultra-clear-tubing-1-2-x-3-4-13-19mm-tubing-mct13-19-30.html
Mayhems Ultra Clear tubing @ $1.49/ft 

---

I returned both of the worthless garbage 14900K for refunds. I ordered a 14900KF and it is better on P-cores and MC is OK, but the E-cores seems to be pure trash (SP70). They run at 46x fine, but system locks up with 47x even with an ungodly amount of voltage. So, I guess this turd is going back, too.

 

I could get by with this for the P-core, but the E-core issue is just trash. I don't know what to do at this point. Don't know if I should order another and return this if the next one is not as bad, or just delid it and go bare die and live with garbage E-cores.

 

Edit: I just discovered it cannot run my 8600 memory profile. Not going to keep it. Amazon is getting it back. Or, worse case scenario it will go into the mini-ITX since it can't run 8600.

 

@Talon is your SP96 14900K as good on P-cores and better on E-cores? What are the individual SP ratings? If so, if you want to sell it send me a PM to let me know what you want for it and I may send this back. 

 

 

[tps3443]

43 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

I cannot find any EPDM rubber tubing for as little as I pay for my clear tubing. I pay less than $1.75 per foot for the good stuff and about $1.50 per foot for the stiff industrial stuff that I use to run long lengths of tubing to the chiller.

 

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt-1-2-in-I-D-x-3-4-in-O-D-x-10-ft-Clear-Vinyl-Tubing-T10006011/304185143 
Everbilt industrial tubing @ $1.25/ft

 

https://www.performance-pcs.com/water-cooling/water-tubing-soft-hard/pvc-soft-tubing/mayhems-ultra-clear-tubing-1-2-x-3-4-13-19mm-tubing-mct13-19-30.html
Mayhems Ultra Clear tubing @ $1.49/ft 

---

I returned both of the worthless garbage 14900K for refunds. I ordered a 14900KF and it is better on P-cores and MC is OK, but the E-cores seems to be pure trash (SP70). They run at 46x fine, but system locks up with 47x even with an ungodly amount of voltage. So, I guess this turd is going back, too.

 

I could get by with this for the P-core, but the E-core issue is just trash. I don't know what to do at this point. Don't know if I should order another and return this if the next one is not as bad, or just delid it and go bare die and live with garbage E-cores.

 

@Talon is your SP96 14900K as good on P-cores and better on E-cores? What are the individual SP ratings? If so, if you want to sell it send me a PM to let me know what you want for it and I may send this back. 

 

 

 

Wow E-SP70 is really pretty dang low. Thats probably about like E82 or E84 with a 13900K. Which still isn’t great.. 
 

I’d take an E-SP78 or E-SP79 with a (14900K) which would work good enough once on direct die at 4.7 or 4.8Ghz. 
 

Keep digging. Something good will shake loose. 

[Mr. Fox]

45 minutes ago, tps3443 said:

 

Wow E-SP70 is really pretty dang low. Thats probably about like E82 or E84 with a 13900K. Which still isn’t great.. 
 

I’d take an E-SP78 or E-SP79 with a (14900K) which would work good enough once on direct die at 4.7 or 4.8Ghz. 
 

Keep digging. Something good will shake loose. 

The memory controller on this CPU is also crap. Looks like it maxes out at 8200. It freezes and blue screens with "Memory Management" STOP error running TM5 above 8200 even with sloppy timings and 1.650V.

 

I may end up putting this into the mini-ITX system since the most its cooling system can handle is 56xP/46xE/8000 and move the SP108 13900KS back into the Apex. I think the likelihood of buying a decent 14900K right now is equal to a snowball's chance in hell and I am not paying more than new retail price for a good used one.

[tps3443]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

The memory controller on this CPU is also crap. Looks like it maxes out at 8200. It freezes and blue screens with "Memory Management" STOP error running TM5 above 8200 even with sloppy timings and 1.650V.

 

I may end up putting this into the mini-ITX system since the most its cooling system can handle is 56xP/46xE/8000 and move the SP108 13900KS back into the Apex.

My 14900KF doesn’t like Auto/Auto as much as my prior 13900KS did. I mean, it does work okay with it, but it does so much better with proper manual voltages found and dialed in.
 

I would set a manual SA voltage, manual IVR TX, and manual IMC voltage. 
 

Y-Cruncher 2.5B is a good tool to fine tune the right voltage combo. So, I’d run like 8600c40 loose timings and keep adjusting voltages until you find a combo that passes Ycruncher 2.5B or TM5 1usmus. 
 

Voltages are guaranteed to be the problem here. 
 

Also, too much SA voltage can be a bad thing. Start at 1.190V SA voltage and work up in 0.010 increments. They all have that sweet spot. And that goes for IMC voltage, IVR TX voltage, and even VDD/VDDQ. 
 

 

 

[Talon]

1 hour ago, Mr. Fox said:

I cannot find any EPDM rubber tubing for as little as I pay for my clear tubing. I pay less than $1.75 per foot for the good stuff and about $1.50 per foot for the stiff industrial stuff that I use to run long lengths of tubing to the chiller.

 

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt-1-2-in-I-D-x-3-4-in-O-D-x-10-ft-Clear-Vinyl-Tubing-T10006011/304185143 
Everbilt industrial tubing @ $1.25/ft

 

https://www.performance-pcs.com/water-cooling/water-tubing-soft-hard/pvc-soft-tubing/mayhems-ultra-clear-tubing-1-2-x-3-4-13-19mm-tubing-mct13-19-30.html
Mayhems Ultra Clear tubing @ $1.49/ft 

---

I returned both of the worthless garbage 14900K for refunds. I ordered a 14900KF and it is better on P-cores and MC is OK, but the E-cores seems to be pure trash (SP70). They run at 46x fine, but system locks up with 47x even with an ungodly amount of voltage. So, I guess this turd is going back, too.

 

I could get by with this for the P-core, but the E-core issue is just trash. I don't know what to do at this point. Don't know if I should order another and return this if the next one is not as bad, or just delid it and go bare die and live with garbage E-cores.

 

Edit: I just discovered it cannot run my 8600 memory profile. Not going to keep it. Amazon is getting it back. Or, worse case scenario it will go into the mini-ITX since it can't run 8600.

 

@Talon is your SP96 14900K as good on P-cores and better on E-cores? What are the individual SP ratings? If so, if you want to sell it send me a PM to let me know what you want for it and I may send this back. 

 

 

 

I'll be home tomorrow night. Can get back to you by Monday morning with the actual scores. 

[Mr. Fox]

Just now, tps3443 said:

My 14900KF doesn’t like Auto/Auto as much as my prior 13900KS did. I mean, it does work okay with it, but it does so much better with proper manual voltages found and dialed in.
 

I would set a manual SA voltage, manual IVR TX, and manual IMC voltage. 
 

Y-Cruncher 2.5B is a good tool to fine tune the right voltage combo. So, I’d run like 8600c40 loose timings and keep adjusting voltages until you find a combo that passes Ycruncher 2.5B or TM5 1usmus. 
 

Voltages are guaranteed to be the problem here. 
 

Also, too much SA voltage can be a bad thing. Start at 1.190V SA voltage and work up in 0.010 increments. They all have that sweet spot. And that goes for IMC voltage, IVR TX voltage, and even VDD/VDDQ. 

It won't work. It's too weak. I've already done extensive testing with manual voltages and it's just a turd.

 

This is the extent of its capabilities.

[Papusan]

17 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

I may end up putting this into the mini-ITX system since the most its cooling system can handle is 56xP/46xE/8000 and move the SP108 13900KS back into the Apex. I think the likelihood of buying a decent 14900K right now is equal to a snowball's chance in hell and I am not paying more than new retail price for a good used one.

 

This doesn't bode well for the lower end binned KS. They will probably perform equal an average great 14900K. 

[Mr. Fox]

Just now, Talon said:

 

I'll be home tomorrow night. Can get back to you by Monday morning with the actual scores. 

Thank you. Hopefully, it's something much better than this 14900KF, which SADLY, is better than both of the 14900Ks that I returned.

[electrosoft]

2 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

It won't work. It's too weak. I've already done extensive testing with manual voltages and it's just a turd.

 

This is the extent of its capabilities.

 

2 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Thank you. Hopefully, it's something much better than this 14900KF, which SADLY, is better than both of the 14900Ks that I returned.

 

Ack, 0-3. 😞 Sorry Bro.

 

 

[tps3443]

2 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Thank you. Hopefully, it's something much better than this 14900KF, which SADLY, is better than both of the 14900Ks that I returned.

Thats terrible, really sorry to hear the IMC is not very good either then. Bummer.

[Raiderman]

Man, I miss all this tuning talk. The most I've spent tuning on my rig, is installing turbo tax, and doing our taxes. 🙄

[Mr. Fox]

2 hours ago, tps3443 said:

Thats terrible, really sorry to hear the IMC is not very good either then. Bummer.

Doing further testing, it cannot even run 8200 stable the IMC is so goofed up. And, it needs 1.325V to run 55x on P-cores stable and still hits 101°C. I'm going to have to send it back. Seems there might not be any more "normal" 14900K/KF. I am skeptical now that the KS will be any better than some of the better 14900K. My SP108 13900KS puts this to shame.

[Papusan]

Gold in Ungine Superposition with the trashy Evga GTX760😅 Can you make gold of trash bro @ryan ? 🤩

 

 

https://hwbot.org/submission/5485506_papusan_unigine_superposition___1080p_xtreme_geforce_gtx_760_(256bit)_1414_points?recalculate=true

[Mr. Fox]

3 hours ago, electrosoft said:

 

 

Ack, 0-3. 😞 Sorry Bro.

 

 

I am wondering if I buy a 14900K from Best Buy if they will give me any pushback if I return one or more garbage samples. Or, if I buy three at once and one or none are good and I return the trash samples (or all three).

[Raiderman]

6 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

I am wondering if I buy a 14900K from Best Buy if they will give me any pushback if I return one or more garbage samples. Or, if I buy three at once and one or none are good and I return the trash samples (or all three).

I think @electrosoftwould know. I think he buys there quite often.

[tps3443]

7 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

I am wondering if I buy a 14900K from Best Buy if they will give me any pushback if I return one or more garbage samples. Or, if I buy three at once and one or none are good and I return the trash samples (or all three).

I returned and exchanged a 13900K like three times to BestBuy they seemed okay with it. I got all my money back in the end. I was telling them I was hunting for a specific batch. And they were like “Okay Whatever” lol. 
 

I don’t bin like this anymore personally but they didn’t seem to mind. 
 

@Mr. Fox It was actually 4 different CPU’s total I just checked LOL. 🫣 I feel kinda bad now. 

[Papusan]

With Intel's binning process with new unlocked Cpus released two times a year (K and then KS for increased profits and to keep up the interest) the shops will probably be fed up with loads of returns from "same people" time after time. I would circulate where I buy them if I know I will return 3 out of 4 units. But not so easy here home with less and only small retail shops and problem with chips in stocks. Best advice as always... Buy closest to release day if you want to try avoid playing the silicon lottery. Midway in the lifecycle you'll be screwed (biggest chance to lose vs Intel) because Intel need chips for the next re-hash/refresh.

 

I'm not very happy pay (full price) for pre tested CPU's from people that throw them back to the stores after they found out they don't want them. The shops will do whatever they can to sell them as brand new. This can partly be avoided if you buy around launch day. 

[electrosoft]

8 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

I am wondering if I buy a 14900K from Best Buy if they will give me any pushback if I return one or more garbage samples. Or, if I buy three at once and one or none are good and I return the trash samples (or all three).

 

2 hours ago, Raiderman said:

I think @electrosoftwould know. I think he buys there quite often.

 

I wouldn't order more than two at a time. I've done it since 10th gen gen but skipped 13th and 14th this time around. If you have shopped there at least a few times in a year and you pick up a few and then return them you should be ok.

 

I even returned two Asus G18 laptops last year but in my defense I shop from there so frequently in a pinch or convenience for myself (always price match Amazon), friends and family it's rediculous. 🙂