Precision 7670 & 7770 pre-release discussion (Alder Lake)

[Asleep]

7 hours ago, Dell-Mano_G said:

Hello everyone.  Yes, I have an account on this site.  

 

Happy to see you found your way here, sir! 

[AL123]

23 hours ago, Aaron44126 said:

 

 

Welcome, and thanks for posting.

 

There goes my supposition that Microsoft is blocking Windows 10 preinstalls on Alder Lake systems.  I didn't realize that 12th gen desktop Precision systems are available now.  And sure enough, there they are, shipping with Windows 10.

 

Went to check the support site and they are offering drivers for both Windows 10 and Windows 11.

 

I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens with the laptops.

 

(At work, we also just finally got rid of the last Windows 7 deployments earlier this year.)

 

I actually just purchased a Process Lasso license last week.  Very nifty tool.  (To anyone unfamiliar — you can use this tool to set priority or affinity settings for an EXE/process and have them automatically applied every time that process starts.)  I'm actually planning to use it sort of in reverse, to make sure that certain background processes that like to occasionally gobble CPU cycles are constrained to the E cores only.  But, it could be handy to keep apps off of the E cores if they are having performance trouble.

 

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...Anyone know of a good way to get new hardware/system announcements straight from Dell?  Their news site and blog seem to be useless for this purpose.  As an example, there is no mention of the Alder Lake XPS 15 & XPS 17 refresh that just happened recently at those locations.  Yet, every article that I have read says something along the lines of "Dell has announced the availability of the new XPS 15 & XPS 17 systems...".  They must have some sort of press outlet that I'm not seeing.  Would have been nice to know about the launch of these Precision desktops without having to go constantly look at what's for sale.  It didn't even appear on the more general tech news sites that I follow.

 

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Just got this parcel delivered...  Got a good deal on this drive and wanted to hop on it.  Plan to use this as my system drive in the Precision 7770, in the hopefully not-too-distant future.  (Still need to pick up some high-capacity data drives as well.  Haven't fully settled on which model to get.)

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Thanks

 

The good news is my results so far showed that when I can get the software  to utilise both sets of cores the i9-12900k out performed both xeon w 18 core and ryzen 5950x 16 core significantly. even in heavily multi threaded simulation (FEA and CFD) workloads. It was also quicker in lightly threaded CAD workloads vs i7 11th gen Worksation, I don't have an i9 11th gen handy 

 

Will definately try Process Lasso as a workaround sounds like it will do a job in the interim before applications are updated.

 

I was able to disable E cores in the Bios also but lost some performance of course. 

 

Looking forward to the laptop announcements 🙂

 

 

 

[serpro69]

23 hours ago, charles said:

Please understand that Ubuntu is: (1) open-source, (2) fully modular. Therefore Ubuntu 20.04 can be fully compatible with Alder Lake, whilst Windows 10 can not (unless Microsoft decides to gracefully bless poor users with an update). This is the beauty (and one of many huge advantages) of Linux in professional applications, you can update kernel and get your “old” system compatible with the newest hardware.

 

1) I'm not sure how an OS being open source qualifies for "fully compatible with Alder Lake"

2) Ubuntu can be modular enough for most users, but it's by any means not "fully modular". If you want fully modular - go with Arch. It's also a well-known fact that a lot of Ubuntu packages are often outdated, and on Ubuntu LTS (e.g. 20.04) - even more so. My Ubuntu 20.04 runs on 5.13 kernel right now and I don't believe it will get 5.17+ anytime soon.

3) There is a big difference between "can be fully compatible" and "is fully compatible". Windows 10 also "can be fully compatible", but it isn't (at the moment).

4) There is also a difference between "Linux" and "Ubuntu". Updating kernel and packages to latest versions on Ubuntu LTS is a huge PIA and I personally would rather go with another Linux OS at that point that attempt to keep all packages up to date.

 

I'm pretty sure by the time new Precision series come out - they will start offering Alder Lake based systems with Ubuntu 22.04 (which will also be out by that time and will have latest kernel version with at least partial support for Alder lake) instead of Ubuntu 20.04. My guess is that currently they offer Ubuntu 20.04 because they've always had Ubuntu as an option, and the next LTS version is yet to be released. So despite it not having full support out of the box for Alder Lake, they still need to offer some version of Ubuntu (Linux). And that's what I meant by my initial post regarding Ubuntu 20.04.

 

23 hours ago, charles said:

I decided to register on the forum just to reply to the stupid poorly informed post above.

 

Glad my post made you register on this forum. Would also wish your manners were better... but that's really your problem, not mine. I guess it's a matter of culture / upbringing, and some people just can't help but try to show their "superior knowledge" by calling opinions they don't agree with - "stupid". That said, you can save yourself a few keystrokes and not reply to my post, I certainly will ignore yours going forward.

[charles]

5 hours ago, serpro69 said:

 

1) I'm not sure how an OS being open source qualifies for "fully compatible with Alder Lake"

2) Ubuntu can be modular enough for most users, but it's by any means not "fully modular". If you want fully modular - go with Arch. It's also a well-known fact that a lot of Ubuntu packages are often outdated, and on Ubuntu LTS (e.g. 20.04) - even more so. My Ubuntu 20.04 runs on 5.13 kernel right now and I don't believe it will get 5.17+ anytime soon.

3) There is a big difference between "can be fully compatible" and "is fully compatible". Windows 10 also "can be fully compatible", but it isn't (at the moment).

4) There is also a difference between "Linux" and "Ubuntu". Updating kernel and packages to latest versions on Ubuntu LTS is a huge PIA and I personally would rather go with another Linux OS at that point that attempt to keep all packages up to date.

 

I'm pretty sure by the time new Precision series come out - they will start offering Alder Lake based systems with Ubuntu 22.04 (which will also be out by that time and will have latest kernel version with at least partial support for Alder lake) instead of Ubuntu 20.04. My guess is that currently they offer Ubuntu 20.04 because they've always had Ubuntu as an option, and the next LTS version is yet to be released. So despite it not having full support out of the box for Alder Lake, they still need to offer some version of Ubuntu (Linux). And that's what I meant by my initial post regarding Ubuntu 20.04.

 

 

Glad my post made you register on this forum. Would also wish your manners were better... but that's really your problem, not mine. I guess it's a matter of culture / upbringing, and some people just can't help but try to show their "superior knowledge" by calling opinions they don't agree with - "stupid". That said, you can save yourself a few keystrokes and not reply to my post, I certainly will ignore yours going forward.

 

Dear @serpro69: I think you did not understand my post at all, so please allow me explain once more.

 

Ubuntu (and other open-source Linux distributions) are fully modular and therefore can be made fully compatible with Alder Lake (or other hardware like Arc GPU) by Intel, OEM (like Dell), software company (like Canonical) or even the end user. Windows 10 is a closed-source product so it can be made compatible with Alder Lake by Microsoft and Microsoft only.

 

You made the argument that the lack of Windows 10 could not be only a compatibly matter because Ubuntu 20.04 was available for new Precision 5x70 systems, and there you were wrong. Ubuntu 20.04 can be and will be (thanks to customs kernels) fully compatible with Alder Lake. Windows 10 will not.

 

Dell is providing customs kernels for Ubuntu, and also mainstream kernel 5.18 will be available this summer for Ubuntu 20.04.5 (and of course 22.04.1).

 

Edit: Maybe you did not know that, but Ubuntu LTS is semi-rolling release distribution [i.e. it gets not only security updates but also prompt upgrades for crucial packages including the kernel]. For example, the original Ubuntu 20.04 LTS was released in April 2020 with the kernel 5.4, so of course it has not support for Alder Lake at all, but we are currently on Ubuntu 20.04.4 with support for Alder Lake, and in the summer there will be Ubuntu 20.04.5 (and the new 22.04.1) with kernel 5.18+ and full support for all Alder Lake features (like the Thread Director).

[Aaron44126]

Precision 5X70 series announced.

• https://www.notebookcheck.net/Dell-Precision-5470-announced-with-Intel-Alder-Lake-H-processors-an-Nvidia-RTX-A1000-GPU-and-more.610927.0.html
• https://www.notebookcheck.net/Dell-s-newest-Precision-5570-laptop-is-now-official-with-Nvidia-s-mobile-workstation-graphics-cards-a-UHD-screen-and-plenty-of-Thunderbolt-ports.610928.0.html
• https://www.notebookcheck.net/Dell-Precision-5770-High-end-business-laptop-announced-with-Intel-Alder-Lake-processors-and-a-touch-enabled-4K-screen.610929.0.html

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/03/dell-latitude-precision-pcs-claim-30-lower-latency-with-dual-network-connection/

 

Will digest and post back.

 

[Edit]

Also, a new phone-charging dock?

https://arstechnica.com/?p=1844136

And some monitors.

https://arstechnica.com/?p=1844382

New Latitude laptops.

https://investors.delltechnologies.com/news-releases/news-release-details/new-latitude-5000-series-are-dells-most-sustainable-laptops-yet

 

Full list of announced products.

(There's the mysterious HD22Q dock that @SvenC noticed.)

[Aaron44126]

16 hours ago, Aaron44126 said:

...Anyone know of a good way to get new hardware/system announcements straight from Dell?

 

To answer my own question, I found the press release RSS feed, which doesn't seem to catch "everything" they release but it does include the products from today.

 

https://investors.delltechnologies.com/rss/news-releases.xml

[Aaron44126]

No real surprises in the Precision 5X70 line.

• Alder Lake H CPUs (up to i9-12900H, 6P+8E, which is available in all three systems)
  • (No Xeon)
• GPU:
  • 5770 gets RTX A2000 (8GB) or RTX A3000 (16GB)
  • 5570 gets RTX A1000 (4GB) or RTX A2000 (8GB)
  • 5470 gets RTX A1000 (4GB)
  • (Integrated graphics only options also available; indication that Intel Arc GPUs will be available in at least the 5470, but at a later date.)
• Up to 64GB DDR5 RAM (in all three systems)
  • (No explicit ECC... but DDR5 includes ECC as part of the spec, for addressing errors in storage but not errors during transmission.)
• 16:10 displays
  • 5770, 5570 – FHD+, 4K+
  • 5470 – FHD+ or 2560×1600
  • All 60 Hz, 500 nits
• Thunderbolt 4 ports, SD card slot & 3.5mm audio
• Wi-Fi 6E, Bluetooth 5.2
• 130W PSU (not sure about 5470, but there is mention of 150W fast charging via USB-C)
• Battery:
  • 5770 – Up to 97 Wh
  • 5570 – Up to 86 Wh
  • 5470 – Up to 73 Wh

5770 and 5570 look basically the same as the recently launched XPS 17 and XPS 15 systems, just with NVIDIA's "RTX A series" GPUs instead of GeForce GPUs; basically what we are used to from the Precision 5000 line.  5470 doesn't appear to have an XPS cousin, though, unless I am missing something?  It is 14", and the soon-to-launch "XPS 13 Plus" has a chassis that is clearly different.

[SvenC]

Hope that the 5770 allows for fast i7 or i9 and iGPU - have no need for fast GPU and don't like that XPS systems with faster CPU force you to go with a dGPU.

[Aaron44126]

8 minutes ago, SvenC said:

Hope that the 5770 allows for fast i7 or i9 and iGPU - have no need for fast GPU and don't like that XPS systems with faster CPU force you to go with a dGPU.

 

I checked the current Precision 5760 and it does similarly force you into a dGPU configuration if you choose the i9 CPU.  These systems have both the CPU and GPU soldered onto the motherboard, effectively making each CPU/GPU combination a different motherboard "part".  They probably (understandably) want to reduce the number of different motherboard variations that they have to produce.

 

...

I checked out the three new docks and all of them appear to be limited to <100W power delivery (power from the dock to the laptop).

[Aaron44126]

Hello!  Precision 3570 and 3571 announced.  Also launching in April.

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Dell-Precision-3570-and-Precision-3571-mobile-workstations-announced-with-Intel-Alder-Lake-and-latest-Nvidia-workstation-GPUs.611020.0.html

 

3570 has Alder Lake U and Alder Lake P CPU options (lower power limit than Alder Lake H), an RTX A500 GPU option, and 16:9 displays (768p through 4K).  3571 gets Alder Lake H and GPU choices are T600, A1000, and A2000.

 

Found spec sheets for 3570 and 3571 as well.  Windows 10 is listed, looks like users won't have to jump through hoops to manually install if they would prefer to use it.  (Will be looking for Precision 5000 spec sheets in a bit...)

 

[Edit]

Looks like there has been no change to the keyboard in the Precision 357X (compared to Precision 7X50/7X60).  It has the same issues with Home/End and PgUp/PgDn.

[SvenC]

29 minutes ago, Aaron44126 said:

 

These systems have both the CPU and GPU soldered onto the motherboard, effectively making each CPU/GPU combination a different motherboard "part".  They probably (understandably) want to reduce the number of different motherboard variations that they have to produce.

 

 

Yes, that might be the reason.

 

They might try to reduce the number of different laptops and have the remaining models in more variations.

 

So many different Latitude, Precision, XPS models in variations of 13.3 14, 15, 15.6 16, 17, 17.3 - and still not my preferred combination 🙂

[Aaron44126]

Spec sheets.

https://www.delltechnologies.com/asset/en-us/products/workstations/technical-support/precision-3571-spec-sheet.pdf

https://www.delltechnologies.com/asset/en-us/products/workstations/technical-support/precision-5470-spec-sheet.pdf

https://www.delltechnologies.com/asset/en-us/products/workstations/technical-support/precision-5570-spec-sheet.pdf

https://www.delltechnologies.com/asset/en-us/products/workstations/technical-support/precision-5770-spec-sheet.pdf

(3570 doesn't seem to have the same URL structure, if it's even out there yet.)

 

Anyway, 5770 shows Windows 10 as an option, but 5470 and 5570 do not.  Maybe their plans to support Intel Arc make the difference?  Spec sheets have been off before, too.  We'll see what the options are when these become available to order.

 

25 minutes ago, SvenC said:

They might try to reduce the number of different laptops and have the remaining models in more variations.

 

I was thinking about this recently too.  By my count, they announced sixteen new models today across the Latitude and Precision lines.  (Not to mention existing lines like XPS, Inspiron, etc... or Precision 7000 which has not refreshed yet.)  For comparison, I hopped over to Apple and it looks like they have four laptop models on sale right now.  I know Dell is trying to fill all of these different niches, and a broader range of niches than Apple at that, but it seems like they could consolidate some.

[AL123]

4 hours ago, Aaron44126 said:

Spec sheets.

https://www.delltechnologies.com/asset/en-us/products/workstations/technical-support/precision-3571-spec-sheet.pdf

https://www.delltechnologies.com/asset/en-us/products/workstations/technical-support/precision-5470-spec-sheet.pdf

https://www.delltechnologies.com/asset/en-us/products/workstations/technical-support/precision-5570-spec-sheet.pdf

https://www.delltechnologies.com/asset/en-us/products/workstations/technical-support/precision-5770-spec-sheet.pdf

(3570 doesn't seem to have the same URL structure, if it's even out there yet.)

 

Anyway, 5770 shows Windows 10 as an option, but 5470 and 5570 do not.  Maybe their plans to support Intel Arc make the difference?  Spec sheets have been off before, too.  We'll see what the options are when these become available to order.

 

 

I was thinking about this recently too.  By my count, they announced sixteen new models today across the Latitude and Precision lines.  (Not to mention existing lines like XPS, Inspiron, etc... or Precision 7000 which has not refreshed yet.)  For comparison, I hopped over to Apple and it looks like they have four laptop models on sale right now.  I know Dell is trying to fill all of these different niches, and a broader range of niches than Apple at that, but it seems like they could consolidate some.

Thanks for the spec sheet links

 

Will be a shame if they don't offer windows 10 on the 5470, 14 inch laptop, it has an optional touch screen with active pen support which is what got me most excited when I saw a preview of this a while back with our Dell contacts

 I haven't seen really promoted in any of the articles yet.

 

There was a short lived 15 Inch 2in1 years ago but amd graphics killed it for us, we need NVIDIA for our products and this has it, I don't think it is a true 2 in 1 though not sure how far the screen folds back 🙂

 

 

Also while it might interest the hard core performance enthusiasts here less the Precision  5560 last I heard was one of, if not the the best selling precision model.

 

Not offering windows 10 on the 5570 would also be rather shooting themselves in the foot as for most large organisations windows 11 is a non starter for now.

 

It's less of an upgrade than Windows 7 to Windows 10 but I think most are still pretty cautious. 

 

 

 

 

[Aaron44126]

@Dell-Mano_G, since the systems have been announced now, can you comment on Dell's plans to support Windows 10 on newer model PCs?

[Dell-Mano_G]

26 minutes ago, Aaron44126 said:

@Dell-Mano_G, since the systems have been announced now, can you comment on Dell's plans to support Windows 10 on newer model PCs?

Yes, all Precision mobile systems launching support Windows 11 and Windows 10 via DGR, Downgrade rights.  We also support Ubuntu & have qualified RedHat.  

[Ionising_Radiation]

Just now, Dell-Mano_G said:

Windows 10 via DGR, Downgrade rights

Any comment on Windows 10 support for Thread Director with the 12th gen Intel CPUs?

[Aaron44126]

40 minutes ago, Dell-Mano_G said:

Yes, all Precision mobile systems launching support Windows 11 and Windows 10 via DGR, Downgrade rights.  We also support Ubuntu & have qualified RedHat.  

 

@Dell-Mano_G Thank you.  I assume that means that all of these systems will have the choice to ship out with Windows 10 preinstalled?

[Asleep]

So nothing on the big chassis 17” or 17.3” workstation yet, the rumored 7770?
 

Dang, and on the day my M6700 finally bit the dust. What a great laptop she has been. Guess I’m shopping for a 7760 now. 

[Aaron44126]

1 hour ago, Asleep said:

So nothing on the big chassis 17” or 17.3” workstation yet, the rumored 7770?
 

Dang, and on the day my M6700 finally bit the dust. What a great laptop she has been. Guess I’m shopping for a 7760 now. 

Yeah, this is not expected until Intel officially unveils the Alder Lake HX CPUs.  If I had to guess, I’d say maybe another 4-6 weeks?  (That’d be just until an announcement, not necessarily actual ordering.)  I’ve sort of been figuring that my 7770 will arrive in July…  Earlier would be a bonus, but I don’t see it being before June.

[AL123]

xHi @Dell-Mano_G glad you made it over here

A couple of questions if I may

 

1.The Precision 5470 14 inch model has an optional touch screen with active pen support but I do not think it is a true "2 in 1" i.e you can't fold the screen back on itself? If not how far does the hinge allow the screen to rotate/can it go flat on a desk for sketching? 

 

2.I note the A2000 and A3000 are rated at 60W in the precision 5770 spec sheet. Are you able to share the rated wattage for the ampere graphics (A550 A1000, A2000, A3000) in the other precision models, 3570, 3571, 5470, 5570

 

It's an area I've always found Dell doing better than HP Z Books who tend to offer high spec cards but clock them way lower on smaller laptops than the equivalent Dell. 

 

Appreciate there may be boosts above this base wattage on some models when conditions allow so it may not be as straight forward as a single number but just a rough guide for the different models would be great. 

 

 

Thanks for continuing to contribute here 

[wallstreetbets]

Can the efficiency cores be disabled in the bios? If so that should make it Win10 compatible no?

[Aaron44126]

46 minutes ago, wallstreetbets said:

Can the efficiency cores be disabled in the bios? If so that should make it Win10 compatible no?

Seems likely.

• You can do so on Dell desktops with Alder Lake.
• All Precision laptops I have used have a BIOS option to select how many cores are active.

(You can still use Windows 10 with E cores enabled.  The issue seems to be mostly having to do with low priority processes/threads getting locked to E cores only, which is a problem if they are also computationally intensive.  Disabling E cores is one of a few different workaround options.)

[TheQuentincc]

AL on W10 works fine, as aaron said, thread/task might be incorrectly running on E-core, it can be "fixed" by setting manually priority in task manager if you really need P + E-core working together.

 

Also, note on Intel Arc GPU, the A370M is pretty much equivalent to a GTX 1650, both in laptop. I would guess the A770M variant will be similar to a 2080S desktop or a bit more performant than a 3060 desktop too, not that bad.

[AL123]

18 hours ago, TheQuentincc said:

AL on W10 works fine, as aaron said, thread/task might be incorrectly running on E-core, it can be "fixed" by setting manually priority in task manager if you really need P + E-core working together.

 

 

Yeh my testing of alder lake on Win 10 and 11 has showed applications which launch a secondary task for processing can go to the e cores only by mistake. High performance power plan is enough for some processes to correctly take advantage others need their priority raising in task manager. 

 

I even have one where high performance power plan and raising process priority didn't work on win 10 or 11. However plugging in a second monitor suddenly made it use all cores. I am waiting on developers to confirm that one and test more myself as it's a bizarre one. 

I got the idea to try the second screen  from anandtech review 

 

https://www.anandtech.com/show/17047/the-intel-12th-gen-core-i912900k-review-hybrid-performance-brings-hybrid-complexity/3

 

My aim was to use all cores so although I could disable the e cores in Bios.

 

Using the e cores on addition to the P cores made a surprising performance difference particularly for CFD simulations, CPU based rendering workloads. I imagine the same for video rendering etc 

 

 

For the people reading these forums being more technical than most  something like process lasso is likely an easier solution but in corporate environments it would be tricker to persuade they need to install and configure extra software to get the most out of these systems plus some have tight restrictions on what software they will install. 

 

 

[Aaron44126]

4 hours ago, AL123 said:

Using the e cores on addition to the P cores made a surprising performance difference particularly for CFD simulations, CPU based rendering workloads. I imagine the same for video rendering etc

 

I've been wondering if this difference will be even greater on the mobile side where thermal/power limits are more in play to push down the max clock speed of the P cores.

 

...

In another note, Sabrent Rocket Plus 8TB drives have just recently became available.  This is a possible option for people who want a very high capacity NVMe drive.  While 8TB drives have been available for a while now, this is the first TLC option, the first PCIe4 option, and it has 8192 GB capacity (instead of 8000 GB).  And while it is definitely on the pricey side...  It's still costs less than what Dell is asking for a 4TB.

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