DLoa Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 My i9-9900k cpu is delided for a direct die cooling setup using Conductonaute liquid metal, foam barriers and Der8auer OC (9th generation) frame in my Eurocome Sky X7c Clevo chassis laptop, which has a unified RTX 2080 GPU - i9-9900k CPU heatsink. I used a vaccum chamber 3mm thick on top of my cpu die. The thickness of the intel IHS top is 2.30mm after the STIM has been removed. The effective STIM tickness is assumed here to be around the reported 0.2mm since I lost the measurement made before delidding. This means that the original the z-height before deliding was about 2.5mm and therefore using a 3mm tick vaccum chamber increased it by up to 0.5mm. Note that, although the temps are fine after deliding, the GPU VRM temperatures are not known and I am conscerned this results in poor contact with heatsick or would require in places much thicker thermal pads rendering less efficient in hear transfers comparared to original setup. Project: In order to offset this 0.5mm increase in height and to improve both cpu die heat transfer (reduction of silicon top layer) and the contacts tolelerances with the cooling unified system, I am planning on lapping the CPU die using NLap tool by NUDEcnc and checking thichness with micrometer during sanding passes (400-2000 grit). With a cpu die 0.88mm above PCB and a tolerance of 0.1mm of OC frame below below the silicon die, would require that the OC frame base be sanded down by the same amount in order to preserve optimum direct die contact. Question: Roman / Der8auer initially reported temps after sanding/lapping down by 0.2mm but mentioned that the ticker silcon would be sanded down further 0.4 or more. Anyone has tried sanding their cpu die down by 0.4mm or more? Would 0.45-0.50mm be accpetable? Thank you for your inputs. Eurocom X7c (Clevo P775TM1-G): CPU: Delidded i9-9900K @ 3.6GHz (direct die cooling with vacuum chamber mounted onto the unified cooling system, all with liquid metal), RAM: 64GB (4 x16Gb Kingston Technology HyperX Impact 2666MHz DDR4 CL15), Main Storage: m.2 Samsung SSD 970 EVO Plus 1Tb with Windows 11 Pro 64bit (24H2), Secondary Storage: 2 x stripped Seagate FireCuda 2TB Solid State Hybrid Drives Performance SSHD (ST2000LX001 - 1RG174) GPU: NVidia RTX 2080 8Gb GDDR6 (liquid metal). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papusan Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 On 3/15/2022 at 4:52 PM, DLoa said: Question: Roman / Der8auer initially reported temps after sanding/lapping down by 0.2mm but mentioned that the ticker silcon would be sanded down further 0.4 or more. Anyone has tried sanding their cpu die down by 0.4mm or more? Would 0.45-0.50mm be accpetable? Thank you for your inputs. A friend on old NBR (@jc_denton) sanded his 9900K below what der8auer did. End results was a cracked die after he started use the laptop. He had an Clevo P870Tm. Don't go too far with the sanding. As a side note. He also used a Vapor chamber between Heatsink and die. "The Killer" ASUS ROG Z790 Apex Encore | 14900KS | 4090 HOF + 20 other graphics cards | 32GB DDR5 | Be Quiet! Dark Power Pro 12 - 1500 Watt | Second PSU - Cooler Master V750 SFX Gold 750W (For total of 2250W Power) | Corsair Obsidian 1000D | Custom Cooling | Asus ROG Strix XG27AQ 27" Monitors | Papusan @ HWBOT | Team PremaMod @ HWBOT | Papusan @ YouTube Channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DLoa Posted March 28, 2022 Author Share Posted March 28, 2022 @Papusan thanks for the input and the reminder on @jc_denton mishap. I was in touch with JC_Denton on the NBR forums but lost touch since it closed down. I hope he will join here as well as Meaker@Sager. I was plannning on 0.4mm do you remember how much JC_Denton went had removed when it had cracked? The vaccum chamber was added in my system following his example and shared discussion on the NBR thread "P775TM1-G and I9 9900K high temperature problem!" that I fully backed-up to pdf. Any experience sanding down the OC frame to keep the height differential with top of cpu die after lapping? Thanks Eurocom X7c (Clevo P775TM1-G): CPU: Delidded i9-9900K @ 3.6GHz (direct die cooling with vacuum chamber mounted onto the unified cooling system, all with liquid metal), RAM: 64GB (4 x16Gb Kingston Technology HyperX Impact 2666MHz DDR4 CL15), Main Storage: m.2 Samsung SSD 970 EVO Plus 1Tb with Windows 11 Pro 64bit (24H2), Secondary Storage: 2 x stripped Seagate FireCuda 2TB Solid State Hybrid Drives Performance SSHD (ST2000LX001 - 1RG174) GPU: NVidia RTX 2080 8Gb GDDR6 (liquid metal). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cylix Posted April 10, 2022 Share Posted April 10, 2022 This is mine. Works well for over an year with nno problems 7950X3D| Zotac 4090 AMP Extreme Airo| MSI MPG B650 Edge Wifi| Lian Li Galahad 360 V2| 32GB Kingston Renegade RGBZ 6000|Kingston KC3000 2TB| Fury Renegade 2TB|Samsung 970 Evo 1TB| Lian Li O11 Dynamic Evo| Corsair HX1500i| Samsung Odyssey G9 Neo Asus Zephyrus G15 (Ryzen 9 6900HS + RTX3080) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DLoa Posted April 23, 2022 Author Share Posted April 23, 2022 @cylixit looks great. Is the measurement showing that you removed 0.3mm? Noob question is it ok to use a digital caliper instead of micrometer with the metal parts touching the silicon and the contact on the cpu base? I ordered the Nlap DIE and IHS from Nude CNC for a precise sanding / lapping of my delidded CPU. I suppose that I'll have to also sand the Der8auer direct die frame by the same amount. Did you have to also? Thanks for feedbacks. Eurocom X7c (Clevo P775TM1-G): CPU: Delidded i9-9900K @ 3.6GHz (direct die cooling with vacuum chamber mounted onto the unified cooling system, all with liquid metal), RAM: 64GB (4 x16Gb Kingston Technology HyperX Impact 2666MHz DDR4 CL15), Main Storage: m.2 Samsung SSD 970 EVO Plus 1Tb with Windows 11 Pro 64bit (24H2), Secondary Storage: 2 x stripped Seagate FireCuda 2TB Solid State Hybrid Drives Performance SSHD (ST2000LX001 - 1RG174) GPU: NVidia RTX 2080 8Gb GDDR6 (liquid metal). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meaker Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 Yes the measurement device is not usually clamped, just lightly touching. Louqe Ghost S1 case (Top hat and bottom extension) Nvidia RTX 4070 MSI twin fan 32" MSI 4k 160HZ IPS display AMD Ryzen 7 7700 cooled via Thermalright 240mm AIO 32GB (2x16) DDR5 6000 CL38 @ 6400 CL38, 1:1 mem controller, 2166Mhz F clock Asrock A620I Lighting motherboard 1TB SM961 nvme SSD + 2TB SN770 nvme 500W Silverstone SFX-L PSU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryan Posted August 13, 2022 Share Posted August 13, 2022 I have an old trick to lower temperatures dramatically, I simply apply tooth paste(mint flavour) on the die(pea method of course) then crush a mentos on it. usually drops the temps by 40-50c similar to nitrogen cooling. on a serious note, whats the best non conductive paste. And does anyone know of a chart showing all the pastes tested, I used to have one. 2 ZEUS-COMING SOON Omen 16 2021 Zenbook 14 oled Vivobook 15x oled Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DLoa Posted September 23, 2022 Author Share Posted September 23, 2022 On 7/23/2022 at 11:18 PM, Meaker said: Yes the measurement device is not usually clamped, just lightly touching. @Meaker and @cylix The dust settled down after a busy time the last few months relying daily on my system. I am now ready to lap my delidded i9-9900K CPU, which is direct die mounted with a vacuum chamber and OC-frame on the unified cooler of the P775TM1-G clevo chassis - all with a very thin layer of liquid metal. I will follow the Der8auer Youtube video below where he sanded 0.4mm off. https://youtu.be/O1ed_rBRb7Q?t=515 Here are a three points to clarify before I get started: 8:35 Der8auer recommends taking measurement and not just rely on the NLap CPU tool. The micrometer he used has a 0.001mm resolution and lightly touching the measurement point. I will also use the tool to lap my cpu at most 0.4mm (and to take measurement with cpu tacked in). @MeakerDoes it work as well to use instead a caliper with only 0.01mm resolution to track the amount of silicon effectively removed by lightly measuring between the top cpu and the NLap tool underside? Should I plan to sand the base or the top of the der8auer direct die Intel 9th Gen. OC-Frame (i.e. the top of the anodised aluminium fame facing the sanded cpu silicon side) by the same amount (or more)? (Top thickness thickness and height differential with pcb concerns me). If it is also the top, will nail varnish or silicone modified conformal coating work fine to protect it against corrosion from liquid metal contact -and- will the thickness and texture not be an issue for the frame to work as designed ? Thank you for your inputs. 1 Eurocom X7c (Clevo P775TM1-G): CPU: Delidded i9-9900K @ 3.6GHz (direct die cooling with vacuum chamber mounted onto the unified cooling system, all with liquid metal), RAM: 64GB (4 x16Gb Kingston Technology HyperX Impact 2666MHz DDR4 CL15), Main Storage: m.2 Samsung SSD 970 EVO Plus 1Tb with Windows 11 Pro 64bit (24H2), Secondary Storage: 2 x stripped Seagate FireCuda 2TB Solid State Hybrid Drives Performance SSHD (ST2000LX001 - 1RG174) GPU: NVidia RTX 2080 8Gb GDDR6 (liquid metal). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybee83 Posted September 24, 2022 Share Posted September 24, 2022 20 hours ago, DLoa said: @Meaker and @cylix The dust settled down after a busy time the last few months relying daily on my system. I am now ready to lap my delidded i9-9900K CPU, which is direct die mounted with a vacuum chamber and OC-frame on the unified cooler of the P775TM1-G clevo chassis - all with a very thin layer of liquid metal. I will follow the Der8auer Youtube video below where he sanded 0.4mm off. https://youtu.be/O1ed_rBRb7Q?t=515 Here are a three points to clarify before I get started: 8:35 Der8auer recommends taking measurement and not just rely on the NLap CPU tool. The micrometer he used has a 0.001mm resolution and lightly touching the measurement point. I will also use the tool to lap my cpu at most 0.4mm (and to take measurement with cpu tacked in). @MeakerDoes it work as well to use instead a caliper with only 0.01mm resolution to track the amount of silicon effectively removed by lightly measuring between the top cpu and the NLap tool underside? Should I plan to sand the base or the top of the der8auer direct die Intel 9th Gen. OC-Frame (i.e. the top of the anodised aluminium fame facing the sanded cpu silicon side) by the same amount (or more)? (Top thickness thickness and height differential with pcb concerns me). If it is also the top, will nail varnish or silicone modified conformal coating work fine to protect it against corrosion from liquid metal contact -and- will the thickness and texture not be an issue for the frame to work as designed ? Thank you for your inputs. best of luck bud! keep us updated on your progress and be sure to follow up with pictures of this whole undertaking, definitely super interesting stuff! 🙂 Mine: Hyperion "Titan God of Heat, Heavenly Light, Power" (2022-24) AMD Ryzen 9 7950X (TG High Perf. IHS) / Asus ROG Crosshair X670E Extreme / MSI Geforce RTX 4090 Suprim X / Teamgroup T-Force Delta RGB DDR5-8200 2x24 GB / Seagate Firecuda 530 4 TB / 5x Samsung 860 Evo 4 TB / Arctic Liquid Freezer II 420 (Push/Pull 6x Noctua NF-A14 IndustrialPPC-3000 intake) / Seasonic TX-1600 W Titanium / Phanteks Enthoo Pro 2 TG (3x Arctic P12 A-RGB intake / 4x Arctic P14 A-RGB exhaust / 1x Arctic P14 A-RGB RAM cooling) / Samsung Odyssey Neo G8 32" 4K 240 Hz / Ducky One 3 Daybreak Fullsize Cherry MX Brown / Corsair M65 Ultra RGB / PDP Afterglow Wave Black My Lady's: Clevo NH55JNNQ "Alfred" (2022-24) Sharp LQ156M1JW03 FHD matte 15.6" IGZO 8 bit @248 Hz / Intel Core i5 12600 / Nvidia Geforce RTX 3070 Ti / Mushkin Redline DDR4-3200 2x32 GB / Samsung 970 Pro 1 TB / Samsung 870 QVO 8 TB / Intel AX201 WIFI 6+BT 5.2 / Win 11 Pro Phoenix Lite OS / 230 W PSU powered by Prema Mod! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LasseK1981 Posted March 12, 2023 Share Posted March 12, 2023 Hello. I just wanted to share my sanding experience with you guys. I had a 13900K which was delid and ran great with a lapped IHS and liquid metal. I then wanted to proceed to direct die cooling. I wanted to sand the die only to make it 100% straight or even. I taped the substrate with tape leaving the die to be sanded. I sanded the die only to like you could see it all sanded only surface sanding. After my CPU dosent work anymore. There are no visible damage to the cpu and all caps are there. I dont understand it. Its just dead with a motherboard error 00. I dont know if I pressed too hard when sanding, I did it in hand so to speak. pushing on the back of the CPU. Again no visible damage but CPU DEAD! 😞 I may have pressed to hard but I feel I did it correctly!? This was a very costly mistake, and I ordered a new 13900KS. I must admit that now im scared to do the normal delid on the KS even though before I was fearless.... This is extremely expensive toys. 😕 I have the EK Direct Die waterblock so I will use it. To begin with just stock CPU with a Thermalgrizzly mounting frame to see everything runs ok no error before delid. I will not attempt to sand die again. 🙂 I guess you have to be very careful and do it with absolutely no force. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meaker Posted June 12, 2023 Share Posted June 12, 2023 On 3/12/2023 at 3:41 PM, LasseK1981 said: Hello. I just wanted to share my sanding experience with you guys. I had a 13900K which was delid and ran great with a lapped IHS and liquid metal. I then wanted to proceed to direct die cooling. I wanted to sand the die only to make it 100% straight or even. I taped the substrate with tape leaving the die to be sanded. I sanded the die only to like you could see it all sanded only surface sanding. After my CPU dosent work anymore. There are no visible damage to the cpu and all caps are there. I dont understand it. Its just dead with a motherboard error 00. I dont know if I pressed too hard when sanding, I did it in hand so to speak. pushing on the back of the CPU. Again no visible damage but CPU DEAD! 😞 I may have pressed to hard but I feel I did it correctly!? This was a very costly mistake, and I ordered a new 13900KS. I must admit that now im scared to do the normal delid on the KS even though before I was fearless.... This is extremely expensive toys. 😕 I have the EK Direct Die waterblock so I will use it. To begin with just stock CPU with a Thermalgrizzly mounting frame to see everything runs ok no error before delid. I will not attempt to sand die again. 🙂 I guess you have to be very careful and do it with absolutely no force. It can be a micro crack, that sucks 😞 Louqe Ghost S1 case (Top hat and bottom extension) Nvidia RTX 4070 MSI twin fan 32" MSI 4k 160HZ IPS display AMD Ryzen 7 7700 cooled via Thermalright 240mm AIO 32GB (2x16) DDR5 6000 CL38 @ 6400 CL38, 1:1 mem controller, 2166Mhz F clock Asrock A620I Lighting motherboard 1TB SM961 nvme SSD + 2TB SN770 nvme 500W Silverstone SFX-L PSU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kojack Posted July 24, 2023 Share Posted July 24, 2023 On 8/12/2022 at 10:00 PM, ryan said: I have an old trick to lower temperatures dramatically, I simply apply tooth paste(mint flavour) on the die(pea method of course) then crush a mentos on it. usually drops the temps by 40-50c similar to nitrogen cooling. on a serious note, whats the best non conductive paste. And does anyone know of a chart showing all the pastes tested, I used to have one. All the good pastes are within a degree or two of each other. So any good one will work. I am using Noctua NT-H2 with great success. From stock, my temps are down alot. could they go down and extra deg using liquid metal? probably. Is it worth it for all the effing around most definitely NOT. Workstation - Dell XPS 8940 - desktop creative powerhouse Mobile Workstation - Dell inspiron 5406 2 in 1 - mobile creative beast Wifey's Notebook - Dell inspiron 3169 - Little gem for our businesses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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