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Planning to lap (sand) both i9-9900K cpu die and Der8bauer OC frame for direct die cooling


DLoa
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My i9-9900k cpu is delided for a direct die cooling setup using Conductonaute liquid metal, foam barriers and Der8auer OC (9th generation) frame in my Eurocome Sky X7c Clevo chassis laptop, which has a unified RTX 2080 GPU - i9-9900k CPU heatsink.  I used a vaccum chamber 3mm thick on top of my cpu die.

 

The  thickness of the intel IHS top is 2.30mm after the STIM has been removed.  The effective STIM tickness is assumed here to be around the reported 0.2mm since I lost the measurement made before delidding.  This means that the original the z-height before deliding was about 2.5mm and therefore using a 3mm tick vaccum chamber increased it by up to 0.5mm. 

Note that, although the temps are fine after deliding, the GPU VRM temperatures are not known and I am conscerned this results in poor contact with heatsick or would require in places much thicker thermal pads rendering less efficient in hear transfers comparared to original setup.

 

Project:

In order to offset this 0.5mm increase in height and to improve both cpu die heat transfer (reduction of silicon top layer) and the contacts tolelerances with the cooling unified system, I am planning on lapping the CPU die using NLap tool by NUDEcnc and checking thichness with micrometer during sanding passes (400-2000 grit).  With a cpu die 0.88mm above PCB and a tolerance of 0.1mm of OC frame below below the silicon die, would require that the OC frame base be sanded down by the same amount in order to preserve optimum direct die contact.  

 

Question:

Roman / Der8auer initially reported temps after sanding/lapping down by 0.2mm but mentioned that the ticker silcon would be sanded down further 0.4 or more.    

Anyone has tried sanding their cpu die down by 0.4mm or more?  Would 0.45-0.50mm be accpetable?

 

Thank you for your inputs.

 

Eurocom X7c (Clevo P775TM1-G): 

CPU: Delidded i9-9900K @ 3.6GHz (direct die cooling with vacuum chamber mounted onto unified cooling system, all with liquid metal), 

RAM: 64GB (4 x16Gb Kingston Technology HyperX Impact 2666MHz DDR4 CL15), 

Main Storage: m.2 Samsung SSD 970 EVO Plus 1Tb with Windows 11 Pro 64bit,

Secondary Storage: 2 x stripped Seagate FireCuda 2TB Solid State Hybrid Drives Performance SSHD (ST2000LX001 - 1RG174) 

GPU: NVidia RTX 2080 8Gb GDDR6 (liquid metal).

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  • DLoa changed the title to Planning to lap (sand) both i9-9900K cpu die and Der8bauer OC frame for direct die cooling
On 3/15/2022 at 4:52 PM, DLoa said:

Question:

Roman / Der8auer initially reported temps after sanding/lapping down by 0.2mm but mentioned that the ticker silcon would be sanded down further 0.4 or more.    

Anyone has tried sanding their cpu die down by 0.4mm or more?  Would 0.45-0.50mm be accpetable?

 

Thank you for your inputs.

A friend on old NBR (@jc_denton) sanded his 9900K below what der8auer did. End results was a cracked die after he started use the laptop. He had an Clevo P870Tm. Don't go too far with the sanding. As a side note. He also used a Vapor chamber between Heatsink and die.

"The Killer"  ASUS Maximus Z690 Apex | 13900K | Zotac graphics | 32GB DDR5 | Be Quiet! Dark Power Pro 12 - 1500 Watt  |  Custom Loop

 Papusan @ HWBOTTeam PremaMod @ HWBOT

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@Papusan thanks for the input and the reminder on @jc_denton mishap.  I was in touch with JC_Denton on the NBR forums but lost touch since it closed down.  I hope he will join here as well as Meaker@Sager.  I was plannning on 0.4mm do you remember how much JC_Denton went had removed when it had cracked?

 

The vaccum chamber was added in my system following his example and shared discussion on the NBR thread "P775TM1-G and I9 9900K high temperature problem!" that I fully backed-up to pdf.

 

Any experience sanding down the OC frame to keep the height differential with top of cpu die after lapping?

 

Thanks

Eurocom X7c (Clevo P775TM1-G): 

CPU: Delidded i9-9900K @ 3.6GHz (direct die cooling with vacuum chamber mounted onto unified cooling system, all with liquid metal), 

RAM: 64GB (4 x16Gb Kingston Technology HyperX Impact 2666MHz DDR4 CL15), 

Main Storage: m.2 Samsung SSD 970 EVO Plus 1Tb with Windows 11 Pro 64bit,

Secondary Storage: 2 x stripped Seagate FireCuda 2TB Solid State Hybrid Drives Performance SSHD (ST2000LX001 - 1RG174) 

GPU: NVidia RTX 2080 8Gb GDDR6 (liquid metal).

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  • 2 weeks later...

This is mine. Works well for over an year with nno problems

2.jpg

Lian Li O11Dynamic EVO MSI MPG B650 Edge Wifi AMD Ryzen 9 7900x Lian Li Galahad 360 V2 Zotac 4090 AMP Extreme Airo 32GB Kingston Renegade RGB Z 6000ghz SSD: Kingston KC3000 2TB, 2x Samsung 970 Evo 1TB Corsair HX1500i Samsung Odyssey G9 Neo

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  • 2 weeks later...

@cylixit looks great.  Is the measurement showing that you removed 0.3mm?

 

Noob question is it ok to use a digital caliper instead of micrometer with the metal parts touching the silicon and the contact on the cpu base?

 

I ordered the Nlap DIE and IHS from Nude CNC for a precise sanding / lapping of my delidded CPU.

 

I suppose that I'll have to also sand the Der8auer direct die frame by the same amount.  Did you have to also?

 

Thanks for feedbacks.

 

Eurocom X7c (Clevo P775TM1-G): 

CPU: Delidded i9-9900K @ 3.6GHz (direct die cooling with vacuum chamber mounted onto unified cooling system, all with liquid metal), 

RAM: 64GB (4 x16Gb Kingston Technology HyperX Impact 2666MHz DDR4 CL15), 

Main Storage: m.2 Samsung SSD 970 EVO Plus 1Tb with Windows 11 Pro 64bit,

Secondary Storage: 2 x stripped Seagate FireCuda 2TB Solid State Hybrid Drives Performance SSHD (ST2000LX001 - 1RG174) 

GPU: NVidia RTX 2080 8Gb GDDR6 (liquid metal).

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  • 3 months later...

Yes the measurement device is not usually clamped, just lightly touching.

Sager NP9877

Hybrid Watercooled setup, D5 pump with dual 140MM fans integrated into custom stand. All controlled via temp outputs from GPU and CPU.

17.3" 1440p 120Hz display

9900KS @ 4.7Ghz All core, delid with rockit IHS, liquid metal

RTX 3070 @ 180W shunt mod, liquid metal

3000Mhz DDR4 CL14

1TB SM961 SSD

Dual 330W PSU 

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  • 3 weeks later...

I have an old trick to lower temperatures dramatically, I simply apply tooth paste(mint flavour) on the die(pea method of course) then crush a mentos on it. usually drops the temps by 40-50c similar to nitrogen cooling. on a serious note, whats the best  non conductive paste. And does anyone know of a chart showing all the pastes tested, I used to have one.

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  • 1 month later...
On 7/23/2022 at 11:18 PM, Meaker said:

Yes the measurement device is not usually clamped, just lightly touching.

@Meaker and @cylix

The dust settled down after a busy time the last few months relying daily on my system.  I am now ready to lap my delidded i9-9900K CPU,  which is direct die mounted with a vacuum chamber and OC-frame on the unified cooler of the  P775TM1-G clevo chassis - all with a very thin layer of liquid metal.  I will follow the Der8auer Youtube video below where he sanded 0.4mm off. 

https://youtu.be/O1ed_rBRb7Q?t=515

 

Here are a three points to clarify before I get started:


8:35   Der8auer recommends taking measurement and not just rely on the NLap CPU tool.  The micrometer he used has a 0.001mm resolution and lightly touching the measurement point.  I will also use the tool to lap my cpu at most 0.4mm (and to take measurement with cpu tacked in).

@MeakerDoes it work as well to use instead a caliper with only 0.01mm resolution to track the amount of silicon effectively removed by lightly measuring between the top cpu and the NLap tool underside?


Should I plan to sand the base or the top of the der8auer direct die Intel 9th Gen. OC-Frame (i.e. the top of the anodised aluminium fame facing the sanded cpu silicon side) by the same amount (or more)?  (Top thickness thickness and height differential with pcb concerns me).
If it is also the top, will nail varnish or silicone modified conformal coating work fine to protect it against corrosion from liquid metal contact -and- will the thickness and texture not be an issue for the frame to work as designed ?


Thank you for your inputs.

 
 
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Eurocom X7c (Clevo P775TM1-G): 

CPU: Delidded i9-9900K @ 3.6GHz (direct die cooling with vacuum chamber mounted onto unified cooling system, all with liquid metal), 

RAM: 64GB (4 x16Gb Kingston Technology HyperX Impact 2666MHz DDR4 CL15), 

Main Storage: m.2 Samsung SSD 970 EVO Plus 1Tb with Windows 11 Pro 64bit,

Secondary Storage: 2 x stripped Seagate FireCuda 2TB Solid State Hybrid Drives Performance SSHD (ST2000LX001 - 1RG174) 

GPU: NVidia RTX 2080 8Gb GDDR6 (liquid metal).

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20 hours ago, DLoa said:

@Meaker and @cylix

The dust settled down after a busy time the last few months relying daily on my system.  I am now ready to lap my delidded i9-9900K CPU,  which is direct die mounted with a vacuum chamber and OC-frame on the unified cooler of the  P775TM1-G clevo chassis - all with a very thin layer of liquid metal.  I will follow the Der8auer Youtube video below where he sanded 0.4mm off. 

https://youtu.be/O1ed_rBRb7Q?t=515

 

Here are a three points to clarify before I get started:


8:35   Der8auer recommends taking measurement and not just rely on the NLap CPU tool.  The micrometer he used has a 0.001mm resolution and lightly touching the measurement point.  I will also use the tool to lap my cpu at most 0.4mm (and to take measurement with cpu tacked in).

@MeakerDoes it work as well to use instead a caliper with only 0.01mm resolution to track the amount of silicon effectively removed by lightly measuring between the top cpu and the NLap tool underside?


Should I plan to sand the base or the top of the der8auer direct die Intel 9th Gen. OC-Frame (i.e. the top of the anodised aluminium fame facing the sanded cpu silicon side) by the same amount (or more)?  (Top thickness thickness and height differential with pcb concerns me).
If it is also the top, will nail varnish or silicone modified conformal coating work fine to protect it against corrosion from liquid metal contact -and- will the thickness and texture not be an issue for the frame to work as designed ?


Thank you for your inputs.

 
 

 

best of luck bud! keep us updated on your progress and be sure to follow up with pictures of this whole undertaking, definitely super interesting stuff! 🙂 

Mine: Hyperion "Titan God of Heat, Heavenly Light, Power" (2022)
AMD Ryzen 9 7950X / Asus ROG Crosshair X670E Extreme / MSI Geforce RTX 4090 Suprim X / G.Skill Trident Z5 RGB DDR5-6600 2x16 GB / Seagate Firecuda 530 4 TB / 2x Samsung 860 Evo 4 TB / Arctic Liquid Freezer II 420 / Seasonic TX-1600 W Titanium / Phanteks Enthoo Pro 2 TG / Samsung Odyssey Neo G8 32" UHD 240 Hz / Ducky One 3 Daybreak Fullsize Cherry MX Brown / Corsair M65 Ultra RGB

 

My Lady's: Clevo NH55JNNQ "Alfred" (2022)
Sharp LQ156M1JW03 FHD matte 15.6" IGZO 8 bit @248 Hz / Intel 12600 @ 4.4 - 4.8 Ghz / Nvidia 3070 Ti 8 GB GDDR6 / G.Skill 16 GB DDR4-3800 / Samsung 970 Pro 1 TB / Intel AX201 ax+BT / Win 11 Pro Phoenix Lite OS / 230 W PSU powered by Prema Mod!

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