Janktop IV Sneak Peek (open source MINI ITX Laptop)

[Clamibot]

On 4/9/2022 at 8:32 PM, FredSRichardson said:

That would be a really nice feature - great alternative to those "eGPU" cases (that are huge...).  And yeah having it clock down when "docked" would be really amazing.

 

I actually have a random modding question - would it be tough to take a laptop keyboard and display and connect them directly to a desktop?  The goal would be to have a thin folding keyboard + display that you could plug into a regular desktop with a long cable (or cable bundle).

 

I'm guessing this would have to be a viewport+usb wire bundle unless there's a really easy way to get both onto the same thunderbolt bus.

 

This device you are talking about is called a lapdock.

 

Unfortunately nobody makes a 17 inch version with a high refresh rate display. I wish one existed since that would be very useful for backpackable SFF builds.

[FredSRichardson]

10 hours ago, Clamibot said:

 

This device you are talking about is called a lapdock.

 

Unfortunately nobody makes a 17 inch version with a high refresh rate display. I wish one existed since that would be very useful for backpackable SFF builds.

 

Yeah, I think the Janktop work is exceptional here - being able to make your own portable keyboard / display either part of an SFF build or even as a lapdock would be amazing - you could pick your own options here!

 

@StripeySnake - in some maybe not-too-distant future you could come up with plans for a homemade lapdock based on the work you've already done for the M17x R4 keyboard and display.  Other enterprising folks could adapt your plans for their own favorite laptop options and hopefully contribute them to the greater good. 😁

[luisxd]

Looks awesome. Looking forward into this.

[FredSRichardson]

@StripeySnake - have you thought about starting a thread over at sff.network forums?  I think you'd get a lot of interest there as well: https://smallformfactor.net/forum/

[StripeySnake]

I think i'll make a post there when it's finished.

[FredSRichardson]

Right, that makes a lot of sense.  I've been trying to educate myself a bit on SFF system building.  Totally new to me - I can't imagine designing and build a custom case for this!  There is a ton of interest in SFF cases though!

[StripeySnake]

I've worked out all of the snags. Printer is up and running for the last couple parts, and the 17 r1 keyboard I ordered has arrived and works. It should be operational within the week and the grand reveal will be done within two weeks.

[FredSRichardson]

@StripeySnake - awesome that you've gotten so far with this!  I'm on that SFF learning curve and I can see how this is pretty far on the "advanced" side - that is building your own case with a 3D printer (!).  Even starting with a really nice case seems a bit daunting to me.

[StripeySnake]

Yeah, it definitely is. I think the one thing that's really helped me get this together is the fact that I'm coming from a background of laptop work almost exclusively rather than desktop. So this feels more like building a really big, undercomplex laptop, rather than trying to minimize a desktop. Sorry this is taking so long by the way, but I am definitely back on track and it should really be done soon. The part I was printing stopped feeding on the last millimeter, but it's structural, so I should still be able to use it.
P.S. This was typed on the 17 r1 keyboard running through the teensy.

[FredSRichardson]

2 hours ago, StripeySnake said:

P.S. This was typed on the 17 r1 keyboard running through the teensy.

That is awesome!

 

No need to apologize!  I actually think you're making amazing progress for what is not a trivial thing to do.

 

You might also get a kick out of this related project over at SFF - this does not look like it's intended for travel to me and the design criteria is definitely not the same.  But I thought this was a really interesting take on the desktop laptop replacement idea:

 

https://smallformfactor.net/forum/threads/diy-laptop-portable-pc.15795/

[StripeySnake]

It's finally running and it is a amazing so far. I still have a lot to work out and fix, but finally getting everything put together was very nice. I'm having a few gremlin type issues with my motherboard ram and GPU, but all of them are issues with the hardware, not my case. CPU cooling is amazing, rarely ever breaching 60 under normal use, and maxing around 75 c running cinebench r23. The GPU is a bit worse for now, getting as hot as 79 once playing a heavy game for a long time, but usually does a lot better. The inside is currently extremely cluttered due to cables, but that will soon be reduced massively by getting a PSU with much thinner cables, and cutting up and soldering the fan cables together rather than using a bajillion adapters. I also need to mount the keyboard better and finish the bottom cover. So far I haven't gotten all of the air out of the loop, but thankfully it tends to build up in the edge of the pump and mainly in the radiators, so judging by pump sound, everything is running normally. Pretty soon i'll crack it open and bleed out that last bit of air and it will be pretty darn full then. More info is coming, and this isn't project completion, but here's where it is now.

[Eban]

Its beautiful 

 

How is the hinge flex?

 

[FredSRichardson]

@StripeySnake - well that is dang impressive.  Really remarkable feat getting all that to work together with a custom made case!   I take it that some of the air intake is through the "palm rest" area?  Would love to hear more about the thermals!

[Eban]

1 hour ago, FredSRichardson said:

@StripeySnake - well that is dang impressive.  Really remarkable feat getting all that to work together with a custom made case!   I take it that some of the air intake is through the "palm rest" area?  Would love to hear more about the thermals!

 

I also would like to see some thermal testing 

[Mr. Fox]

This is an interesting project. Props for the ingenuity and creativity elements. Maybe you should get a water block for the GPU and include that in the loop along with the CPU. Not only does it take up less space than the stock air cooler, (will end up as single versus dual or triple slot,) but it will work better for thermals and maybe give you room for a couple of added 2.5 inch internal drives in the space gained by eliminating the GPU air cooler.

 

I think having a liquid cooled GPU is an often overlooked opportunity for improved thermals while simultaneously occupying less space in the chassis of a SFF build that can be used for something more useful and important, such as additional storage or space for wiring, coolant tubing, fans, etc. Air cooling is not only less efficient, it takes up a lot more space. A pump like an AIO has is a good idea as long as the z-height works. You could use two of those in series. The second one would not necessarily need to actually be cooling anything, but they take up little space. It could be use only to enhance flow rate and liquid capacity. You could  mount it to the chassis using the existing hardware you would normally use to mount it to the CPU.

[Reciever]

On 5/1/2022 at 10:33 PM, StripeySnake said:

It's finally running and it is a amazing so far. I still have a lot to work out and fix, but finally getting everything put together was very nice. I'm having a few gremlin type issues with my motherboard ram and GPU, but all of them are issues with the hardware, not my case. CPU cooling is amazing, rarely ever breaching 60 under normal use, and maxing around 75 c running cinebench r23. The GPU is a bit worse for now, getting as hot as 79 once playing a heavy game for a long time, but usually does a lot better. The inside is currently extremely cluttered due to cables, but that will soon be reduced massively by getting a PSU with much thinner cables, and cutting up and soldering the fan cables together rather than using a bajillion adapters. I also need to mount the keyboard better and finish the bottom cover. So far I haven't gotten all of the air out of the loop, but thankfully it tends to build up in the edge of the pump and mainly in the radiators, so judging by pump sound, everything is running normally. Pretty soon i'll crack it open and bleed out that last bit of air and it will be pretty darn full then. More info is coming, and this isn't project completion, but here's where it is now.

This. 

This is the reason I love forums. Where I get to see that other people are just as messy as me and in the controlled chaos come out the other side with something truly unique.

[StripeySnake]

To answer all of your questions:
The hinge flex is almost nonexistent now. The polycarb does flex a bit, but it seems far from doing any damage, and has no effect on anything around it. I don't even notice it anymore.

 

Thermally, I haven't stress tested the GPU yet, but running Generation 0 with the VRAM completely saturated, I saw a max temp of 79 C. This is however with the stock fan curve that doesn't hit 100% till like 80 or 90, and substantially more chassis obstruction then there will be once I get a PSU with thinner cables, and minimize the fan cables using soldering. Additionally, the bottom cover should help streamline airflow when it's done. I expect to be able to get the GPU to low 70s or high 60s with these tweaks.
As for the CPU, that's where it really shines. The water acts as in impressively powerful buffer, stopping wattage spikes from majorly affecting temperature. Because of this, most games run in the 40-50s on the CPU, which is just insane for a "laptop" build. If it gets pushed to the max (110 watts) for an extended period of time, it will slowly rise, and eventually settle at 69 C with the fan curve I have set up.
 

I appreciate the suggestion, but no I will not be watercooling the GPU as well. It is an intended feature of the case that you CAN watercool the GPU, but I'm going to be upgrading both GPU and CPU eventually for a target build of 5700 xt and eventually r9 5950x. While the loop handles 110 watts well, if I had both of those parts in the loop it would be more like almost 400 watts to cool, and I simply don't see that working out well. Additionally, there is a potential modification I could make to the chassis to help the GPU evacuate hot air better, which could further boost GPU cooling, and prevent the GPU backwash from affecting the CPU rads.

 

Finally, @FredSRichardson, yes there are secondary intakes on the palmrest. I will be making an alternate palmrest file without them, as they do pose a massive hazard if liquid is spilled on the chassis, but they enable the NVME drive on the back of the motherboard, and the GPU backplate to get a small but substantial amount of airflow, for the sake of performance and longevity.

 

 

[FredSRichardson]

@StripeySnake - great work fielding the bombardment of questions.  That's one clear sign of  a very success prototype - you get a ton of deep probing questions with all kinds of suggestions on what to do next 🤣

 

Not always welcome when you deep in to thing trying to keep a little airflow to your lungs!

 

Outstanding work either way in my opinion - anyone drinking a tall latte while working on that awesome beast gets what they deserve!

 

I know a lot of SFF builds are vertical instead of lying flat - that might have a little more "spill" tolerance (harder to aim a latte directly down the throat of the case), but it would mean putting the screen on a vertically standing unit (similar to the ginormous eblaztr https://eblaztr.com/) and I know that is totally not what you're going for here. 

[StripeySnake]

I've seen the eblaztr, and honestly while I like the concept, I think it's pretty overrated. The main reason is that max CPU cooling is still just mediocre low profile coolers, which limit you to a 5-series processor with bad temps, if I remember right. It's a cool concept, but kind of the inverse of what I'm doing, with a heavy focus on a large screen, big GPUs and ease of assembly. The janktop is designed to be much less intuitive and large, with a bare minimum GPU threshold, but much more stable CPU cooling, and better portability.

I also personally like to have my laptop several feet away from me while using it, on an angled desk, so spills aren't a concern. I've used my m17x that way for years and never spilled anything on it, despite having eaten countless bowls of soup right in front of it.

[FredSRichardson]

@StripeySnake - Yes, to be clear I'm definitely not advocating in favor of the eblaztr.  I think the really cool thing is that you solved a problem given a certain set of constraints using a custom built case.  No small achievement IMO.

 

The eblaztr is definitely too big for anything I would be interested in even with optimal cooling.  In general though I think the diverse set of SFF possibilities is awesome especially with the emerging custom builds like your Janktop! 😀   

 

I'm considering a build that is way less ambitious than what you've been doing, but the number of "off-the-shelf" options for building a portable SFF is really amazing and IMO a very encouraging sign for people like me looking for alternatives to an expensive "gaming laptop".

[StripeySnake]

I thought I'd share some more progress with y'all, here's the current schematic for all of the custom components of the build, not counting stuff such as the motherboard, GPU, display, keyboard, etc.

 

Janktop IV-BluePrint.pdf

[FredSRichardson]

On 5/10/2022 at 10:47 AM, StripeySnake said:

I thought I'd share some more progress with y'all, here's the current schematic for all of the custom components of the build, not counting stuff such as the motherboard, GPU, display, keyboard, etc.

 

Janktop IV-BluePrint.pdf 96.46 kB · 3 downloads

I love seeing schematics and this one doesn't disappoint!  Really nice work!

 

It is amazing to me that it's even possible to make a custom case using a 3D printer (and other components where needed).  Just a very cool direction for things to be going in on the SFFPC front!

[-batab-]

Damn, congratz on the current project!

Everytime I look for a laptop I'm like: will i ever be able to get more performance/kg (and/or performance/mm^3) by carrying a monitor + sff pc + keyboard instead?

 

I'm really amazed and I wonder if you'll ever consider building something even more extreme in terms of form factor and weight.

 

 

[StripeySnake]

I've thought about it, but keep in mind this thing is already massive, and also pretty powerful. Current max spec is a 3070 + 5950x or so, which will match any laptop in terms of gpu performance, and far exceed in terms of CPU. Additionally, the ability to upgrade to similar specs even in a year or two will allow it to leave anything from 2022 far behind when upgraded to 2024 standards, and so on and so forth. MY current priority is to get the design finished so I can publish it and probably get an open source patent.

[StripeySnake]

If you're interested in a smaller version, I have been considering designing a 15 inch version based off of a 40mm internal thickness rather than 50mm, but this design would have major constraints. For cable manageing and thickness reasons, you would have to use a 1u waterblock and pump, which means the watercooling loop would likely be a LOT of money. Additionally, the GPU would also have to be part of the cooling loop, meaning part threshold would be kind of low. I might work on it some day, but i'll be finishing this one right now.