Console Style SFF Cases and Builds

[FredSRichardson]

I realize there are places dedicated to this type of build.

 

I'm looking to build a fairly portable PC.  My plan is to get a portably keyboard and monitor that I could use like a laptop connected to the system (there are a few out there that look decent).

 

Thin is pretty important, so I'm looking at cases under 70mm.  The Skyreach 4 Mini looks perfect but is not currently available, but the Sliger CL520 is available and also looks pretty good.

 

I'm thinking a RTX 3060 TI would be as much as I need, but I've heard these tiny cases can support some of the beefier GPUs.  I won't ask you guys too much about build specifics.

 

What I was really wondering is if anyone's tried out a portable desktop as an alternative to a DTR laptop, if that ended up working out for you and what you think the biggest tradeoffs are.

 

Thank you for any insight!

 

-Fred

[FredSRichardson]

I did find someone who put a RTX 3080 in the CL520 case.  I'm wondering if this kind of rig could handle travel - maybe with a hard case?

 

 

[electrosoft]

What type of config CPU wise are you looking to use? You might want to look at SFF models that support water cooling too depending on CPU.

[FredSRichardson]

@electrosoft - that's a great question and I haven't thought this through a whole lot.  I would like to go with some form of AMD Risen but probably not the 5800X used in the video.

 

My goal is travel and I'm honestly not sure how well a water cooling system would handle that. 

[ryan]

i would pass on wc if portability is your thing. and to answer your question....it will fit in a backpack

[FredSRichardson]

@ryan - thank you!  Any thoughts on how durability compares to a laptop?  I'm guessing there's always a risk carrying around parts intended for a desktop, but it's not something I've tried.

[FredSRichardson]

@electrosoft @Clamibot

Would love to get your opinion on the Sliger CL520 - I have pointer to a video in a prior post demonstrating an RTX 3080 in this tiny case.  I'm sure there's a half dozen catches and I've never built and SFF PC before.

[electrosoft]

17 minutes ago, FredSRichardson said:

@electrosoft @Clamibot

Would love to get your opinion on the Sliger CL520 - I have pointer to a video in a prior post demonstrating an RTX 3080 in this tiny case.  I'm sure there's a half dozen catches and I've never built and SFF PC before.

 

Having used the Noctua LH-N9 series of coolers before, it definitely won't cool a 12900k and I suspect even a 12700k would give it fits. I built a system out for my brother (mATX) and it had his 5600x running a bit toasty even under load. I switched him to an EVGA CLC 240 and that fixed the thermal problems.

 

I guess it depends on what CPU you're looking to run.

 

@Clamibot Linked their new upcoming TREGO pics in the other thread (https://imgur.com/gallery/pT7GUFc) and that seems more my speed being able to get a 280mm or 360mm AIO in there.

 

 

[FredSRichardson]

Thank you @electrosoft - the Sliger subredit is pretty active - very cool company - looks like they really respond to what people want to see in a case.  Some recent discussion on the upcoming TREGO and ELKO cases below (looks like the web site should get updated this week).

 

I've been thinking that 3" is about as thick as I want to go - but I really haven't thought this through carefully from the most important angle and that's the backpack.  With my current backpack I think I could handle the 3" CL520 case - but it makes zero sense to build around the backpack I have - replacing that is generally on the cheaper end (with some exceptions...).  So maybe that's really the big question.  I'm ultimately thinking about air travel: under the seat and overhead compartment space compatible builds.  Is an SFF build is best suited to a carryon bag that fits overhead but is a robust enough build in case the bag gets "check" with normal luggage (kind of a nightmare scenario for me honestly) or do I try to go ultra thin and keep it in my backpack under the seat in front of me?

 

The performance bar for me is really to beat any laptop "super computer" with the same generation of parts.  I think that bar is pretty low (I heard somewhere the RTX 3600 TI beats the mobile RTX 3800) - but it would be so cool to have a build that cost under one of those laptops and easily outperformed it while being "travelable".

 

I also looked at the Skyreach 4 Mini (not obtainable - at least right now) which is only 2.5" thick (64mm) but apparently you can't really go over an RTX 3600 TI in that case.  It's hard to beat that thickness though and apparently it is a really well designed case.

 

 

 

[FredSRichardson]

BACKPACKS - I guess this is really where I should have started.  I think I do want to keep my SFF system with me under the seat in front of me on an airplane.  The tough part is that I also need to bring along a thin work ultrabook (under 1") and various accessories (batteries, headphones, etc) that have to fit into the bag.  

 

According to here: https://www.cleverjourney.com/underseat-luggage-size-guide/

a under-the-seat max target to cover most airlines would be 16 x 12 x 6 inches (40 x 30 x 15 cm).

 

I have to compare those number to my current backpack fully loaded.  I have taken that thing everywhere and I think it's always fit under the seat with 2 Ultrabooks and a thick Clevo (and over-the-ear headphones).  I'm guessing I hit closer to 8" thick.

 

[Clamibot]

This backpack is essentially like having a suitcase strapped to your back: https://www.amazon.com/Vancropak-Weekender-Expandable-Backpacks-Resistant/dp/B07QLKFP8D/ref=pd_day0fbt_sccl_2/146-7479626-0879512?pd_rd_w=Lo1Wc&pf_rd_p=bcb8482a-3db5-4b0b-9f15-b86e24acdb00&pf_rd_r=VBZERDQWJV8AA9F9Z2TQ&pd_rd_r=4fba678b-6cd7-46f0-837c-cdbfb4481d52&pd_rd_wg=iPqiD&pd_rd_i=B07QLKFP8D&th=1

 

It should fit pretty much all console style SFF cases with room to spare for everything else. It'll easily fit in an overhead compartment, and I believe it is the maximum size that will fit under the seat too (probably with very little foot room left).

 

Regarding the strength of SFF cases, they're generally about as solid as the cases of true DTRs. You don't have to worry about that. The point of worry here is the GPU, since the GPU will be held in place by the screws on the exterior of the case, and the GPU riser in the console style cases. There is no support directly under the GPU, so you'd want to be careful to avoid the GPU snapping off the riser board. I imagine this would take an extreme amount of mishandling though, as the screws that hold the GPU in along with the riser board are sturdy enough to keep this from happening with shock and vibrations you would encounter during travel.

[FredSRichardson]

@Clamibot - thank you for that backpack reco - I'll definitely check it out - it looks like  a great backpack. 

 

But I think size constraints are mainly going to be an issue for me because of the other things I have to travel with (and want to travel with).  Ultrabook etc that is.

 

If the Trego dims I saw are accurate, it might be too wide for that backpack.  The interior width is under 14" and the dims I saw for Trego were over that - but maybe they're wrong.

[FredSRichardson]

So both the Stiger CL520 and CL530 look really good (2.7" and 3.7" thick respectively, about 13.5" x 13.5").  In either case I'm committing to a mini-ITX build, but with a bit more breathing room if I can manage the CL530.

 

I think the backpack isn't going to be a problem, but I may want sleeves on monitor, Ultrabook and SFFPC for airport inspection etc.

 

The other big one is travel keyboard and monitor options since those specs impact overall bag thickness.  I'm really only worried about that as I don't know if a really good option exists.  UPERFECT sells a ton of these with some mixed reviews on Amazon, ASUS also sells some - but reviews are also mixed on these, so I guess "buyer be ware" is a big part of this.  Finding a keyboard/monitor pair as robust as some of the laptops I've had would be ideal.  Frankly, that whole issue is a very strong point in favor of custom lapdock mods - but at least right now that's a bridge too far for me! 

 

But still imagine if you could get a 17" 144Hz display in your customized lapdesk...  Recycling solid time-tested laptop hinges and keyboards for this makes too much sense.  Getting the whole thing thin may be tough with the custom circuitry you have to put in their (keyboard adapter etc).  Hmm... maybe one could gut the electronics from a cheap or broken lapdock...

[FredSRichardson]

I'm still working on gathering resources on this.

 

These sites look really helpful:

SFF subredit: https://www.reddit.com/r/sffpc/

Sliger case subredit (I'm currently fixated on Sliger cases):  https://www.reddit.com/r/sliger/

SFF wiki - this has a good section on case specs (e.g. sizes):  https://wiki.sff.media/

SFF.NETWORK forums - helpful forums for Q&A or getting build ideas:  https://smallformfactor.net/forum/

 

Cases of interest (pretty sure all these will require some under volting to get the heat down):

Sliger CL520 and CL530 - the 520 is a little over 2.5" and the 530 is a little over 3.5" thick- should support 3070 TI (I've seen a 3080 buid...): https://www.sliger.com/products/cases/cl520/

Skyreach 4mini - sold out and currently too small for me - max GPU would be a 3060 TI - 2.25" thick: https://nfc-systems.com/skyreach-4-mini 

SFFtime P-ATX V2 - 3" thick - sold out 😞 - I've seen an RTX 3080 build :https://www.sfftime.com/

SFFtime P-ATX V3 - TBD, but looking forward to seeing this - not sure if it's going to be a lot thicker than V2...

Sentry 2.0 - not available, crowd sourced, may be a 3.0 will come out - 2.6" thick - 3060 TI: https://zaber.com.pl/sentry/

 

Components: I've got a long way to go here.  mini-ITX is pretty certain, CPU/GPU TBD but I'm thinking of at least a 3070 TI..  I am not clear on Intel vs AMD - certainly I won't be running on the high end with such a small enclosure.

 

Keyboard/Monitor:   I almost want to hack a nice old broken laptop for this.  A folding, hinged "lapdock" would be ideal but very few are in existence and compromises on the components are likely not acceptable.  

 

On the monitor side, the ViewSonic VX1755 looks like a nice 17" 144hz 1080P portable monitor and the price is not too bad.  Some mediocre reviews but most are positive.  Lapdocking this one could be very iffy without a sturdy way of attaching it to the keyboard.

[FredSRichardson]

I'm trying to keep an open mind for other mobile gaming options.  if I went for a Switch or Steam Deck, then I could go ahead and build a big desktop.  But I actually kind of like the idea of build an SFF honestly.

[electrosoft]

This is slowly rolling out, but I could see working with something like this:

 

 

[Clamibot]

45 minutes ago, electrosoft said:

This is slowly rolling out, but I could see working with something like this:

 

 

 

Oh yeah I first heard about the eBlaztr portable gaming PC about a year ago while looking for the perfect case for my custom laptop build.

 

It's pretty sweet, but I really needed a case that could support an extremely beefy cooling system, which the eBlaztr is not capable of housing.

 

If they modified the case layout so it was similar to Sliger's new upcoming Trego case, it would be perfect.

[FredSRichardson]

16 hours ago, electrosoft said:

This is slowly rolling out, but I could see working with something like this:

 

 

Wow!  Only problem for me is the size - over 20" x 24".  That's not going to fit in the right places...

 

The SFF idea is addictive though - really like all the amazing things people have come up with.  And that's even with the performance tradeoffs compared to a big box with plenty of air (and/or liquid) flowing through.  I don't mind undervolting a bit or running less powerful CPUs.  The GPU I'd like to get over a 3060TI if I can (I noticed that is a max for some of the small cases).

[electrosoft]

I like the idea of it being contained, self standing / adjustable and display built in. It seems to have a lot in common with the Sliger Trego in terms of form factor and the clearance for the CPU cooler shows it would have room to handle an AIO block size. The one Linus tested is still in late stage prototype phase so is subject to change but that and the Trego are my ideal form factors.

 

 

[FredSRichardson]

21 hours ago, electrosoft said:

I like the idea of it being contained, self standing / adjustable and display built in. It seems to have a lot in common with the Sliger Trego in terms of form factor and the clearance for the CPU cooler shows it would have room to handle an AIO block size. The one Linus tested is still in late stage prototype phase so is subject to change but that and the Trego are my ideal form factors.

 

It looks like a great design - I really like how the feet "pop out" at the bottom and having the display on the unit like that is just a great idea.  Very nice case - and it looks like you could fit quite a lot in there and keep it cool!

 

Hmmm... maybe they'll come out with a "mini" version?  (Like with a 17" monitor or something).

 

-Fred

 

[hfm]

On 4/28/2022 at 5:48 PM, FredSRichardson said:

 

Wow!  Only problem for me is the size - over 20" x 24".  That's not going to fit in the right places...

 

The SFF idea is addictive though - really like all the amazing things people have come up with.  And that's even with the performance tradeoffs compared to a big box with plenty of air (and/or liquid) flowing through.  I don't mind undervolting a bit or running less powerful CPUs.  The GPU I'd like to get over a 3060TI if I can (I noticed that is a max for some of the small cases).

 

What are you going to use for a monitor as you are carrying it around? Hotel TV or already a monitor at your destination?

[FredSRichardson]

@hfm - that's a great question.  I've been looking at portable monitors on Amazon and some of those look pretty good.  There are also some nice compact travel keyboards.  I kind of have to size everything out to make sure it will fit which I think it will (possibly with a new backpack).

 

I'm not in a huge rush with this - my old 2015 gaming laptop is going pretty strong (actually I think even my old 2013 Ultrabook is still working pretty well), but I'm thinking this might come together in the Fall some time.

[FredSRichardson]

Uh oh, sorry this is a total rambling post...

 

The TL;DR of it is that I'm having doubts and wondering if I should consider other options.  Also, for non-laptop travel option I really want a nice lap dock and I'd likely have to build one to be happy with it - there are very few options out there right now.

 

I'm definitely still quite a ways of from committing to a travel SFF PC.  As I understand it, the current enclosure manufacturers are on the cusp of releasing new console offerings that might be worth waiting for.  Someone on the SFF PC discord mentioned that the cooling with the Sliger CL520 might be an issue, but that one can mod around that (I think the issue is airflow for CPU cooling - I think the GPU is okay).

 

I also think I get that the console form factor is not very popular - a thicker case does have a lot of advantages in terms of cooling and I have seen some impressive builds over at the Optimum Tech YT channel.  But I'm not (yet) convinced that the "under the seat" constraint for air travel leaves a lot of options.  You're talking abut 8-9" including the bag, so a 4" case leaves you with little room for other laptops or accessories.  It might still make more sense and I'll definitely try to keep an open mind.  But I am looking for an alternative to a laptop - and those are all well under 2" thick (these days anyway).

 

The last problem with this whole idea is that a good "lap dock" would make the concept near perfect for me, but not too many of those exist.  Ideally I would find a really nice laptop display/keyboard combination and build a lap dock from that.  But this is no simple problem to solve.  It does make me wonder about either the "eGPU" solution or seeing if there is a way to use a laptop as a lap dock without modification - this would be asking a lot from a remote desktop application especially at high frame rates.

 

Lastly I have to play the devil's advocate about these expensive "gaming" BGA laptops smartphones.  I think some people buy these with there eyes open.  That is, I know of at least one person who spent the huge dollars on a Razer "3080" system, but they knew perfectly well that performance was around a desktop 3060 TI or such.  I mean if you have the extra cash and you want a beautiful thin laptop with a nice keyboard and display that might not burn the skin off your thighs, then okay.  It's a luxury item like buying the very latest and largest gen smartphone with max memory.  I can't quite bring myself around to this.

 

An easy way to mod old laptops into lap docks would be really cool, but I think it is generally a hard problem.  There are mods out there for getting HDMI working with the monitor and USB working with the keyboard, but I get the feeling that building a circuit that would put both of those on Thunerbolt or usb-C is not easy.

[FredSRichardson]

Just to answer myself - it looks like you can get cheap usb-c multi port adapters from Amazon so a usb-c home built lap dock laptop conversion mod is not crazy...

[Clamibot]

1 hour ago, FredSRichardson said:

Uh oh, sorry this is a total rambling post...

 

The TL;DR of it is that I'm having doubts and wondering if I should consider other options.  Also, for non-laptop travel option I really want a nice lap dock and I'd likely have to build one to be happy with it - there are very few options out there right now.

 

I'm definitely still quite a ways of from committing to a travel SFF PC.  As I understand it, the current enclosure manufacturers are on the cusp of releasing new console offerings that might be worth waiting for.  Someone on the SFF PC discord mentioned that the cooling with the Sliger CL520 might be an issue, but that one can mod around that (I think the issue is airflow for CPU cooling - I think the GPU is okay).

 

I also think I get that the console form factor is not very popular - a thicker case does have a lot of advantages in terms of cooling and I have seen some impressive builds over at the Optimum Tech YT channel.  But I'm not (yet) convinced that the "under the seat" constraint for air travel leaves a lot of options.  You're talking abut 8-9" including the bag, so a 4" case leaves you with little room for other laptops or accessories.  It might still make more sense and I'll definitely try to keep an open mind.  But I am looking for an alternative to a laptop - and those are all well under 2" thick (these days anyway).

 

The last problem with this whole idea is that a good "lap dock" would make the concept near perfect for me, but not too many of those exist.  Ideally I would find a really nice laptop display/keyboard combination and build a lap dock from that.  But this is no simple problem to solve.  It does make me wonder about either the "eGPU" solution or seeing if there is a way to use a laptop as a lap dock without modification - this would be asking a lot from a remote desktop application especially at high frame rates.

 

Lastly I have to play the devil's advocate about these expensive "gaming" BGA laptops smartphones.  I think some people buy these with there eyes open.  That is, I know of at least one person who spent the huge dollars on a Razer "3080" system, but they knew perfectly well that performance was around a desktop 3060 TI or such.  I mean if you have the extra cash and you want a beautiful thin laptop with a nice keyboard and display that might not burn the skin off your thighs, then okay.  It's a luxury item like buying the very latest and largest gen smartphone with max memory.  I can't quite bring myself around to this.

 

An easy way to mod old laptops into lap docks would be really cool, but I think it is generally a hard problem.  There are mods out there for getting HDMI working with the monitor and USB working with the keyboard, but I get the feeling that building a circuit that would put both of those on Thunerbolt or usb-C is not easy.

 

I myself am waiting for Sliger to release their new Trego case. It's basically everything I've ever wanted out of a computer case, and I think it's what you want as well.

 

The Trego was originally supposed to release in April, but it got delayed to this month, and now it's been delayed again to June. I don't know when the case will actually release, but I'm waiting patiently. It's a console style case that allows for a 360mm AIO, full length GPU, and an ATX motherboard. This case is really conducive to an easily deployable desktop build, which is essentially what we're going for.