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End of 17" screens for Lenovo?


Bullit
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We were chatting about this yesterday in the Dell Precision subforum, looking at new mobile workstations from other manufacturers.  Dell is offering 17" Precision 5770 (16:10) and 7770 (16:9), but both Lenovo and HP have opted to go with 16" for the Alder Lake generation with Lenovo P16 and HP ZBook Fury G9 / Studio G9 — and they're offering just one model at 16", instead of having separate 15" and 17" versions.

 

20_Thinkpad-P16_Laptop-evolutionA-scaled

 

I think that the market for these larger laptops is not that great (...especially on the business side...) so it's hard for them to justify new models.  Both companies are pitching 16" as a compromise between "performance" of a 17" and "portability" of a 15" for their workstation laptops.  (Since the 16" panels are 16:10, they can fit into the footprint of a 15.6" system more-or-less.  I don't think a claim that it can perform as well at a good 17" will pan out.)

 

Looks like they are going 16" with their upcoming Legion Alder Lake systems as well.  These are also 16:10.  (You'd think gaming laptops could be a realm where 16:9 might actually still be preferred.)

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-Legion-7i-and-Legion-7-Gen-7-based-on-Intel-Alder-Lake-HX-and-Ryzen-6000HX-bring-a-series-of-firsts-to-the-16-inch-form-factor.618386.0.html

 

16" laptops weren't something that you really saw much of before but it looks like the form factor is gaining a lot of momentum this year.  (...I can't remember ever seeing one of these before Apple put out the 16" MBP, which I think was late 2020?)

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Dell Precision 7770 (personal) • Dell Precision 7560 (work) • Full specs in spoiler block below
Info posts (Dell) — Dell Precision key postsDell driver RSS feeds • Dell Fan Management — override fan behavior
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Spoiler

Dell Precision 7770 (personal)

  • Intel Core i9-12950HX ("Alder Lake"), 8P+8E
    • 8× P cores ("Golden Cove"): 2.3 GHz base, 5.0 GHz turbo, hyperthreading
    • 8× E cores ("Gracemont"): 1.7 GHz base, 3.6 GHz turbo
  • 128GB DDR5-3600 (CAMM)
  • NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 Ti 16GB (DGFF)
  • Storage:
    • 2TB system drive: Samsung 980 Pro, PCIe4
    • 24TB additional storage: 3× Sabrent Rocket 4 Plus 8TB, PCIe4 (Storage Spaces)
  • Windows 10 (Enterprise LTSC 2021)
  • 17.3" 3940×2160 display
  • Intel Wi-Fi AX211 (Wi-Fi 6E + Bluetooth)
  • 93Wh battery
  • IR webcam
  • Fingerprint reader

 

Dell Precision 7560 (work)

  • Intel Xeon W-11955M ("Tiger Lake")
    • 8×2.6 GHz base, 5.0 GHz turbo, hyperthreading ("Willow Cove")
  • 64GB DDR4-3200 ECC
  • NVIDIA RTX A2000 4GB
  • Storage:
    • 512GB system drive (Micron 2300)
    • 4TB additional storage (Sabrent Rocket Q4)
  • Windows 10 (Enterprise LTSC 2021)
  • 15.6" 3940×2160 display
  • Intel Wi-Fi AX210 (Wi-Fi 6E + Bluetooth)
  • 95Wh battery
  • IR webcam
  • Fingerprint reader

 

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  • Dell Precision 7530, 7510, M4800, M6700
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1 hour ago, Aaron44126 said:

I don't think a claim that it can perform as well at a good 17" will pan out.

 

Indeed. I myself am more leaning towards 17", but it will be very interesting to see some performance comparisons for Dell's 16" and 17" models, as it seems that Dell is the only one offering the 17" this time around. And comparing two laptops with similar specs but in different size would probably give closest results if both were from the same manufacturer.

Serenity                    -> Dell Precision 7560
Millenium Falcon    -> Dell Precision 5530
Axiom                        -> Lenovo ThinkPad P52 (work)
Moldy Crow             -> Dell XPS 15 9550

Spoiler

Millenium Falcon: Dell Precision 5530
    i9-8950HK CPU
    2x16 GB DDR4 2,666 MHz
    1 TB SSD
    NVIDIA Quadro P2000
    UHD 3840 x 2160
    Ubuntu 20.04 / Windows 10 LTSC

Axiom: Lenovo ThinkPad P52
    i7-8850H
    2x32 GB DDR4
    1 TB SSD
    NVIDIA Quadro P2000
    UHD 3840x2160
    Windows 10 Pro

 

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I just saw an article and noticed that the Lenovo P16 only has two NVMe slots, which seems kind of lousy for a flagship mobile workstation.  😕

 

Dell Precision 7670 (16") has three NVMe slots, and Precision 7770 (17") has four.  HP ZBook Fury G9 (16") actually has four as well... they stack two on top of each other sort of like you see sometimes with SODIMM modules.

Dell Precision 7770 (personal) • Dell Precision 7560 (work) • Full specs in spoiler block below
Info posts (Dell) — Dell Precision key postsDell driver RSS feeds • Dell Fan Management — override fan behavior
Info posts (Windows) — Turbo boost toggle • The problem with Windows 11 • About Windows 10 LTSC

Spoiler

Dell Precision 7770 (personal)

  • Intel Core i9-12950HX ("Alder Lake"), 8P+8E
    • 8× P cores ("Golden Cove"): 2.3 GHz base, 5.0 GHz turbo, hyperthreading
    • 8× E cores ("Gracemont"): 1.7 GHz base, 3.6 GHz turbo
  • 128GB DDR5-3600 (CAMM)
  • NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 Ti 16GB (DGFF)
  • Storage:
    • 2TB system drive: Samsung 980 Pro, PCIe4
    • 24TB additional storage: 3× Sabrent Rocket 4 Plus 8TB, PCIe4 (Storage Spaces)
  • Windows 10 (Enterprise LTSC 2021)
  • 17.3" 3940×2160 display
  • Intel Wi-Fi AX211 (Wi-Fi 6E + Bluetooth)
  • 93Wh battery
  • IR webcam
  • Fingerprint reader

 

Dell Precision 7560 (work)

  • Intel Xeon W-11955M ("Tiger Lake")
    • 8×2.6 GHz base, 5.0 GHz turbo, hyperthreading ("Willow Cove")
  • 64GB DDR4-3200 ECC
  • NVIDIA RTX A2000 4GB
  • Storage:
    • 512GB system drive (Micron 2300)
    • 4TB additional storage (Sabrent Rocket Q4)
  • Windows 10 (Enterprise LTSC 2021)
  • 15.6" 3940×2160 display
  • Intel Wi-Fi AX210 (Wi-Fi 6E + Bluetooth)
  • 95Wh battery
  • IR webcam
  • Fingerprint reader

 

Previous

  • Dell Precision 7530, 7510, M4800, M6700
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  • Dell Inspiron 1720, 5150
  • Dell Latitude CPi
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1 hour ago, Aaron44126 said:

I just saw an article and noticed that the Lenovo P16 only has two NVMe slots, which seems kind of lousy for a flagship mobile workstation.  😕

 

Dell Precision 7670 (16") has three NVMe slots, and Precision 7770 (17") has four.  HP ZBook Fury G9 (16") actually has four as well... they stack two on top of each other sort of like you see sometimes with SODIMM modules.

I saw that too about the HP, but looking at the downloadable spec sheet it says up to 12 TB which seems like 3 drives rather than 4.

 

The Lenovo P16 is heavy and with only two drives I'm wondering what is going on.  It does have a 270W power adapter available, maybe it is a clue?

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58 minutes ago, Pultzar said:

I saw that too about the HP, but looking at the downloadable spec sheet it says up to 12 TB which seems like 3 drives rather than 4.

 

Hmm, I wonder then.  I was going off of this photo where you can see 2× double-stacked 2280 NVMe drives.

https://www.hp.com/content/dam/sites/worldwide/personal-computers/commercial/workstations/z-workstation-new/zbook-fury/Keep Cool Under Any Workload - Desktop.png

Dell Precision 7770 (personal) • Dell Precision 7560 (work) • Full specs in spoiler block below
Info posts (Dell) — Dell Precision key postsDell driver RSS feeds • Dell Fan Management — override fan behavior
Info posts (Windows) — Turbo boost toggle • The problem with Windows 11 • About Windows 10 LTSC

Spoiler

Dell Precision 7770 (personal)

  • Intel Core i9-12950HX ("Alder Lake"), 8P+8E
    • 8× P cores ("Golden Cove"): 2.3 GHz base, 5.0 GHz turbo, hyperthreading
    • 8× E cores ("Gracemont"): 1.7 GHz base, 3.6 GHz turbo
  • 128GB DDR5-3600 (CAMM)
  • NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 Ti 16GB (DGFF)
  • Storage:
    • 2TB system drive: Samsung 980 Pro, PCIe4
    • 24TB additional storage: 3× Sabrent Rocket 4 Plus 8TB, PCIe4 (Storage Spaces)
  • Windows 10 (Enterprise LTSC 2021)
  • 17.3" 3940×2160 display
  • Intel Wi-Fi AX211 (Wi-Fi 6E + Bluetooth)
  • 93Wh battery
  • IR webcam
  • Fingerprint reader

 

Dell Precision 7560 (work)

  • Intel Xeon W-11955M ("Tiger Lake")
    • 8×2.6 GHz base, 5.0 GHz turbo, hyperthreading ("Willow Cove")
  • 64GB DDR4-3200 ECC
  • NVIDIA RTX A2000 4GB
  • Storage:
    • 512GB system drive (Micron 2300)
    • 4TB additional storage (Sabrent Rocket Q4)
  • Windows 10 (Enterprise LTSC 2021)
  • 15.6" 3940×2160 display
  • Intel Wi-Fi AX210 (Wi-Fi 6E + Bluetooth)
  • 95Wh battery
  • IR webcam
  • Fingerprint reader

 

Previous

  • Dell Precision 7530, 7510, M4800, M6700
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  • Dell Inspiron 1720, 5150
  • Dell Latitude CPi
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  • 5 weeks later...

I think the bigger deal besides the size of the screen is the technology.  There needs to be 16 and 17 inch screens with OLED or miniLED past 500 nits brightness with good contrast ratios at high refresh rates with variable refresh available.  Screens with OLED/miniLED etc are quite rare right now but the 16 inch screen in my last year Legion is very good at 165hz refresh rate, G sync, approaching 500 nit brightness, 1440p, and 99% sRGB.  Obviously not adequate for a professional doing image work but very good for gaming but OLED and miniLED get brighter with much better/unbeatable contrast ratios and true HDR.  16:10 has been fine in the vast majority of games surprisingly.

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19 hours ago, Bullit said:

I don't see why not if the output is sRGB.

 

Yea, having 99% sRGB is great for professional image work

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On 5/23/2022 at 6:12 PM, Aaron44126 said:

 

Hmm, I wonder then.  I was going off of this photo where you can see 2× double-stacked 2280 NVMe drives.

https://www.hp.com/content/dam/sites/worldwide/personal-computers/commercial/workstations/z-workstation-new/zbook-fury/Keep Cool Under Any Workload - Desktop.png

 Also of interest is that Lenovo quote a maximum power of 80W for all of the GPUS making the high end ones pretty irrelevant for me and a rather low sounding 35W for the A1000/A2000
 

https://thinkstation-specs.com/thinkpad/p16-gen-1/

 

Same for HP (page 19)

 

https://h20195.www2.hp.com/v2/getpdf.aspx/c08160125.pdf
 

Unsure  if either model  can boost above that. 
 

this Also says 4 x m.2 ssd for the HP which does seem at odds with the spec sheet unless it is 2x4TB and 2x 2TB due to thickness or something like that. I believe CAMM memory is helping Dell already with space for cooling and storage. 

 

it would be interesting if @Dell-Mano_G could give comparable figures for the Dell Precison 7670 and 7770 worst case and boost.  I think the numbers he gave were combined with CPU. For me most of our workloads are either GPU or CPU intensive rare to pin all cores and the GPU at the same time 

 

My experience of Dell vs other brands is they tend to under promise and over deliver. I have a tiny precision 3260 compact workstation on test  currently with a 65W i7-12700 dell even list 65W it on the configurator /quote and yet the PL1 and PL2 both show as 100W and happily sits well above its base speed for long periods of high load.

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40 minutes ago, AL123 said:

it would be interesting if @Dell-Mano_G could give comparable figures for the Dell Precison 7670 and 7770 worst case and boost.  I think the numbers he gave were combined with CPU. For me most of our workloads are either GPU or CPU intensive rare to pin all cores and the GPU at the same time

 

Yes, the numbers that he gave were for CPU+GPU together.  There seems to be reluctance to hand out the specific values (I asked for the CPU PL1/PL2 specifically and he said he wasn't sharing that).  Though, I think you can assume that the values will be no lower than and possibly a little bit higher than they are for the prior-gen Precision 7X60 systems — which was already higher than the 80W GPU figure here for Lenovo's P16 and HP's Fury G9.

 

Precision 7760 can boost the GPU up to 140W.  7770 could maybe go up to 150W?  I don't think it would be any higher than that, and that would already leave only ≈17W for the CPU to stay in the total power budget.

Dell Precision 7770 (personal) • Dell Precision 7560 (work) • Full specs in spoiler block below
Info posts (Dell) — Dell Precision key postsDell driver RSS feeds • Dell Fan Management — override fan behavior
Info posts (Windows) — Turbo boost toggle • The problem with Windows 11 • About Windows 10 LTSC

Spoiler

Dell Precision 7770 (personal)

  • Intel Core i9-12950HX ("Alder Lake"), 8P+8E
    • 8× P cores ("Golden Cove"): 2.3 GHz base, 5.0 GHz turbo, hyperthreading
    • 8× E cores ("Gracemont"): 1.7 GHz base, 3.6 GHz turbo
  • 128GB DDR5-3600 (CAMM)
  • NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 Ti 16GB (DGFF)
  • Storage:
    • 2TB system drive: Samsung 980 Pro, PCIe4
    • 24TB additional storage: 3× Sabrent Rocket 4 Plus 8TB, PCIe4 (Storage Spaces)
  • Windows 10 (Enterprise LTSC 2021)
  • 17.3" 3940×2160 display
  • Intel Wi-Fi AX211 (Wi-Fi 6E + Bluetooth)
  • 93Wh battery
  • IR webcam
  • Fingerprint reader

 

Dell Precision 7560 (work)

  • Intel Xeon W-11955M ("Tiger Lake")
    • 8×2.6 GHz base, 5.0 GHz turbo, hyperthreading ("Willow Cove")
  • 64GB DDR4-3200 ECC
  • NVIDIA RTX A2000 4GB
  • Storage:
    • 512GB system drive (Micron 2300)
    • 4TB additional storage (Sabrent Rocket Q4)
  • Windows 10 (Enterprise LTSC 2021)
  • 15.6" 3940×2160 display
  • Intel Wi-Fi AX210 (Wi-Fi 6E + Bluetooth)
  • 95Wh battery
  • IR webcam
  • Fingerprint reader

 

Previous

  • Dell Precision 7530, 7510, M4800, M6700
  • Dell Latitude E6520
  • Dell Inspiron 1720, 5150
  • Dell Latitude CPi
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2 hours ago, Aaron44126 said:

 

Yes, the numbers that he gave were for CPU+GPU together.  There seems to be reluctance to hand out the specific values (I asked for the CPU PL1/PL2 specifically and he said he wasn't sharing that).  Though, I think you can assume that the values will be no lower than and possibly a little bit higher than they are for the prior-gen Precision 7X60 systems — which was already higher than the 80W GPU figure here for Lenovo's P16 and HP's Fury G9.

 

Precision 7760 can boost the GPU up to 140W.  7770 could maybe go up to 150W?  I don't think it would be any higher than that, and that would already leave only ≈17W for the CPU to stay in the total power budget.

I'm surprised how low Mano quoted for the 7770. Pretty sure I saw 45W+140W sustained on the 7760 with 11950H and 3080 before selling it to a friend. I definitely can sustain 110W+45W on the 7560 with 11800H and 3080.

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4 hours ago, win32asmguy said:

I'm surprised how low Mano quoted for the 7770. Pretty sure I saw 45W+140W sustained on the 7760 with 11950H and 3080 before selling it to a friend. I definitely can sustain 110W+45W on the 7560 with 11800H and 3080.

 

We'll see what it's actually like once the systems are in.  Maybe it can go higher.  I remember last year Mano quoted some numbers for the 7760 GPUs but it was something like 115W, he wasn't including the boost power which we didn't find out about until later.

 

[Edit] Found it, #4.

Dell Precision 7770 (personal) • Dell Precision 7560 (work) • Full specs in spoiler block below
Info posts (Dell) — Dell Precision key postsDell driver RSS feeds • Dell Fan Management — override fan behavior
Info posts (Windows) — Turbo boost toggle • The problem with Windows 11 • About Windows 10 LTSC

Spoiler

Dell Precision 7770 (personal)

  • Intel Core i9-12950HX ("Alder Lake"), 8P+8E
    • 8× P cores ("Golden Cove"): 2.3 GHz base, 5.0 GHz turbo, hyperthreading
    • 8× E cores ("Gracemont"): 1.7 GHz base, 3.6 GHz turbo
  • 128GB DDR5-3600 (CAMM)
  • NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 Ti 16GB (DGFF)
  • Storage:
    • 2TB system drive: Samsung 980 Pro, PCIe4
    • 24TB additional storage: 3× Sabrent Rocket 4 Plus 8TB, PCIe4 (Storage Spaces)
  • Windows 10 (Enterprise LTSC 2021)
  • 17.3" 3940×2160 display
  • Intel Wi-Fi AX211 (Wi-Fi 6E + Bluetooth)
  • 93Wh battery
  • IR webcam
  • Fingerprint reader

 

Dell Precision 7560 (work)

  • Intel Xeon W-11955M ("Tiger Lake")
    • 8×2.6 GHz base, 5.0 GHz turbo, hyperthreading ("Willow Cove")
  • 64GB DDR4-3200 ECC
  • NVIDIA RTX A2000 4GB
  • Storage:
    • 512GB system drive (Micron 2300)
    • 4TB additional storage (Sabrent Rocket Q4)
  • Windows 10 (Enterprise LTSC 2021)
  • 15.6" 3940×2160 display
  • Intel Wi-Fi AX210 (Wi-Fi 6E + Bluetooth)
  • 95Wh battery
  • IR webcam
  • Fingerprint reader

 

Previous

  • Dell Precision 7530, 7510, M4800, M6700
  • Dell Latitude E6520
  • Dell Inspiron 1720, 5150
  • Dell Latitude CPi
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How you make that limitations? 

I have my 17.3 Lenovo with 230w power source. I was in Unreal Engine with CPU 5800H going up to 80w  and GPU RTX3060 to 133w(so 3 w official the stated limit). Measure by HWiNFO

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On 6/26/2022 at 2:47 AM, Bullit said:

How you make that limitations? 

I have my 17.3 Lenovo with 230w power source. I was in Unreal Engine with CPU 5800H going up to 80w  and GPU RTX3060 to 133w(so 3 w official the stated limit). Measure by HWiNFO

Yeh that’s what I meant by being unsure if the values quoted were the minimum (base) values or the maximum Boost, hard to know we can only go on the published documentation until someone gets one and reports back. What model do you have? checking what the documentation says for your model would also be useful as a guide.I don’t have direct experience of Lenovo mobile workstations but was surprised by these listed power ratings for the new models. It would be ideal if all manufacturers listed the range especially as tech savvy people can see it as soon as they get their hands on one. 

 

i did however test a 15 inch HP Z book a couple of generations ago with quadro rtx 3000 and it was clocked so low a NVIDIA T2000 out performed it for most tasks, and way lower clocked than the equivalent Dell precision which had about a third faster clocks if memory serves. 

 

 

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