MSI GE77

[win32asmguy]

24 minutes ago, DukeCLR said:

I ran another Timespy and got 12180,  HW Monitor showed P core #7 causing a throttle, I think the first thing I will try is to lower the voltage for that core.  I'm still trying to figure out what all the different terms are, lol.

The improved memory can slightly increase Timespy scores.

 

You could try setting an offset voltage to all cores in Throttlestop and see if it helps. Undervolting P-cache also greatly reduces power consumption and heat generation, although it would cause a crash for me with Throttlestop when applied.

 

You may need to set "Overclocking Lock" to disabled for Throttlestop to work. It is in "Advanced -> Power & Performance -> CPU - Power Management Control -> CPU Lock Configuration". To get the advanced menus it is Left Alt + Right Control + Right Shift + F2 all at the same time. Depending on your Function Lock setting you may also need to press the Fn key so F2 is sent instead of the modifier.

 

The memory scores are not too bad. My Clevo NH55JNNQ gets 48363MB/s and 69.8ns latency with DDR4-3200 CL20 memory. I wonder if DDR5-5200 CL34 could match it in latency, provided the memory and GE77HX could run that stable.

[DukeCLR]

I guess I must of failed in my research, I thought the HX CPUs were unlocked. I just tried to use XTU and discovered that I can't adjust things. I guess I better get Throttlestop up and running.  

[DukeCLR]

I just played a round of BF 2042, I have MSI AB up and running, Interestingly enough in the monitoring options GPU temp isn't listed, I usually have that with the CPU temp.  Overall 2042 ran nicely, I set everything to low for speed and you can the the FPS in the bottom graph was averaging 120 is, I'll put a FPS cap at 120 which should smooth it out a bit.  I'm interested in seeing how the CPU speed changes during the game and I look forward to seeing what Throttestop can do for me.

 

[1610ftw]

13 hours ago, DukeCLR said:

I guess I must of failed in my research, I thought the HX CPUs were unlocked. I just tried to use XTU and discovered that I can't adjust things. I guess I better get Throttlestop up and running.  

They are unlocked. Might want to check what is the holdup but it isn't the CPU iself.

PCWorld managed to get about 21K Cinebench R23 out of the GT77 out of the box so this is something to aim for:

 

 

 

[DukeCLR]

52 minutes ago, 1610ftw said:

They are unlocked. Might want to check what is the holdup but it isn't the CPU iself.

PCWorld managed to get about 21K Cinebench R23 out of the GT77 out of the box so this is something to aim for

 

 

 

When I tried launching XTU there was a message that stated I would need a different CPU, I also didn't see any options in the BIOS.  I will need to research it more.

 

That GT77 is  beast, I wish it would have fit into my flight bag. That video makes me more comfortable with my choices for CPU/GPU.  

[1610ftw]

On 7/3/2022 at 10:59 AM, DukeCLR said:

That GT77 is  beast, I wish it would have fit into my flight bag. That video makes me more comfortable with my choices for CPU/GPU.  

Which flight bag do you have, have you selected it due to some size limitations while traveling? I have an Everki Titan and it holds everything up to the MSI GT83 and Alienware 18 so the GT77 would fit just fine and probably even two of them considering how slim it is 😁

 

From the numbers I have seen that CPU / GPU combo looks like the sweet spot for the GE77 when you are gaming.

Fine tuning the GE77 will surely bring improvements, have fun 🙂

[DukeCLR]

I had an Everki Titan, I would rest it on the top part of my suitcase but after a couple of years it was causing shoulder pain so I need to get a bag that I could hang from the hook on my suitcase. my GT73 barely fit in there so the GT77  would have been problematic.  I wish Everki made one suitable for me, the craftsmanship is amazing, the one I use now is $50.00 pos but ti works. 

 

I do look forward to tuning this thing in.

[1610ftw]

7 hours ago, DukeCLR said:

I had an Everki Titan, I would rest it on the top part of my suitcase but after a couple of years it was causing shoulder pain so I need to get a bag that I could hang from the hook on my suitcase. my GT73 barely fit in there so the GT77  would have been problematic.  I wish Everki made one suitable for me, the craftsmanship is amazing, the one I use now is $50.00 pos but ti works. 

 

Ha, I know what you mean - my Titan at times weighed more than 30 lbs with the Clevo X170 with protective sleeve, two power supplies, two extra monitors, drives, cabling, mouses and the works 🙂

 

I noticed that for me a bit of shoulder and trapezius exercise was very helpful for supporting that kind of weight for longer amounts of time but it was noticeable that the weight also accelerated wear on the Everki. I have downsized a bit since that time but it was still cool to relatively comfortably move that kind of weight around before I could not even declare this kind of weight as carry on luggage any more with some airlines.

 

[1610ftw]

Very high Cinebench R23 score at Notebookreview in a GE67 with the 12800HX, maybe a golden sample?

 

 

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Core-i7-12800HX-vs-Ryzen-9-6900HX-benchmarks-show-Intel-ahead-of-the-game-but-at-a-huge-cost-to-your-power-bill.633575.0.html

 

The article is misleading by the way as watt for watt the Intel processor is also better at a somewhat elevated but not nearly as problematic power consumption starting at around 40 to 50W if I had to guess. Jarrod'sTech did a comparison about that in his last video but he used the Ryzen 7 6800H and i7-12700H for the comparison :

 

 

[DukeCLR]

Reading this made my try out another Cinebench run with my Afterburner running so I could see the graphs of the Cores, power and temperature.  Not sure why but my score improved.

 

[1610ftw]

1 hour ago, DukeCLR said:

Reading this made my try out another Cinebench run with my Afterburner running so I could see the graphs of the Cores, power and temperature.  Not sure why but my score improved.

 

I see - edging closer to 20k!

 

Have you already undervolted your CPU?

I take it you by now know the not so secret entry into the extended bios?

 

From what I can gather it is Right ctrl+shift+left alt+F2 or just F7.

Haven't tried it myself as for a long time I did not have the need to do it.

 

Here may be some additional pointers both in that thread and in that forum:

https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/laptop-undervolting-and-overclocking-results-i7-10750h-rtx-2060-msi-raider-ge75.279412/

 

 

[win32asmguy]

1 hour ago, DukeCLR said:

Reading this made my try out another Cinebench run with my Afterburner running so I could see the graphs of the Cores, power and temperature.  Not sure why but my score improved.

How much power does the CPU report being consumed while it runs the test? In HWInfo64 it is listed under "CPU Package Power". In theory it should be able to go up to 180W, but may drop depending on thermal throttling or if the system decides to limit power consumption.

 

For these chips Intel tests them at the factory, and sets a predefined curve of voltages at a given frequency, similar to how Nvidia sets up their GPU's (if you have ever messed with that in Afterburner). So one chip may have lower voltages from the factory depending on its quality, despite both being called "12800HX". So far we have observed this performance delta to be up to 10% with the 12900k.

[1610ftw]

28 minutes ago, win32asmguy said:

How much power does the CPU report being consumed while it runs the test? In HWInfo64 it is listed under "CPU Package Power". In theory it should be able to go up to 180W, but may drop depending on thermal throttling or if the system decides to limit power consumption.

How much power did the 12950 HX draw in the Asus?

[DukeCLR]

48 minutes ago, 1610ftw said:

I see - edging closer to 20k!

 

Have you already undervolted your CPU?

I take it you by now know the not so secret entry into the extended bios?

 

From what I can gather it is Right ctrl+shift+left alt+F2 or just F7.

Haven't tried it myself as for a long time I did not have the need to do it.

 

Here may be some additional pointers both in that thread and in that forum:

 

I know nothing about getting into a secret BIOS, I'll check it out.  I also didn't see many options in the BIOS I accessed  while booting the laptop, so far everything is stock,  I updated an intel driver, perhaps that caused the difference in the score.

 

40 minutes ago, win32asmguy said:

How much power does the CPU report being consumed while it runs the test? In HWInfo64 it is listed under "CPU Package Power". In theory it should be able to go up to 180W, but may drop depending on thermal throttling or if the system decides to limit power consumption.

 

For these chips Intel tests them at the factory, and sets a predefined curve of voltages at a given frequency, similar to how Nvidia sets up their GPU's (if you have ever messed with that in Afterburner). So one chip may have lower voltages from the factory depending on its quality, despite both being called "12800HX". So far we have observed this performance delta to be up to 10% with the 12900k.

 

For this test I didn't have HW info going but in the image i put up the AB graphs and CPU wattage stayed around  115 W.

 

[DukeCLR]

 

I ran it again, similar score.

 

[win32asmguy]

48 minutes ago, 1610ftw said:

How much power did the 12950 HX draw in the Asus?

It would burst up to 175W, but settle around 140W due to thermal throttling.

 

15 minutes ago, DukeCLR said:

I ran it again, similar score.

Try running it again but in the default "Smart AI Auto" profile. I think that one allows beyond 115W sustained.

[1610ftw]

13 hours ago, win32asmguy said:

It would burst up to 175W, but settle around 140W due to thermal throttling.

 

Try running it again but in the default "Smart AI Auto" profile. I think that one allows beyond 115W sustained.

So did it thermal throttle in one run or with multiple runs only?

Goes to show that even with a unified vapor chamber, Liquid metal and an advertised combined CPU and GPU power budget that is much higher there still is thermal throttling.

 

 

[1610ftw]

14 hours ago, DukeCLR said:

 

I know nothing about getting into a secret BIOS, I'll check it out.  I also didn't see many options in the BIOS I accessed  while booting the laptop, so far everything is stock,  I updated an intel driver, perhaps that caused the difference in the score.

 

 

For this test I didn't have HW info going but in the image i put up the AB graphs and CPU wattage stayed around  115 W.

 

I would first suggest to check the mode that was recommended by @win32asmguy and then have a look at the bios.

For very simple undervolting you can probably just go with Throttlestop alone, I have yet to encounter a higher performance PC or laptop where it did not work for me with an undervolt of usually between 50 and 125mV.

 

Here is the guide that I used for it first time and what I always adjust (if available) is the undervolting and the multipliers:

https://www.ultrabookreview.com/31385-the-throttlestop-guide/

[win32asmguy]

13 hours ago, 1610ftw said:

So did it thermal throttle in one run or with multiple runs only?

Goes to show that even with a unified vapor chamber, Liquid metal and an advertised combined CPU and GPU power budget that is much higher there still is thermal throttling.

It would always thermal throttle on one run, even with a custom fan profile with both set to maximum speed, and on a cooling pad with low room temperatures. I think it had a poor liquid metal application but I did not want to hassle with it given the issues with booting Linux and the gaudy chassis. It also would worry me because if the expensive BGA CPU+GPU motherboard failed they may try to blame the failure on a repaste during an RMA. So, the best way to purchase a Strix Scar 17 SE would be through a reseller so you can pay them to repaste if needed and they guarantee their modification work in the event of an RMA. Technically the same advice applies to the MSI laptops as well.

[1610ftw]

13 hours ago, win32asmguy said:

It would always thermal throttle on one run, even with a custom fan profile with both set to maximum speed, and on a cooling pad with low room temperatures. I think it had a poor liquid metal application but I did not want to hassle with it given the issues with booting Linux and the gaudy chassis. It also would worry me because if the expensive BGA CPU+GPU motherboard failed they may try to blame the failure on a repaste during an RMA. So, the best way to purchase a Strix Scar 17 SE would be through a reseller so you can pay them to repaste if needed and they guarantee their modification work in the event of an RMA. Technically the same advice applies to the MSI laptops as well.

 

 

Understood - it really sucks to not be able to properly improve the cooling on these if one is not keen on voiding the warranty and then paying obscene amounts of money for the whole BGA extravaganza.

 

It is funny how one can look at the chassis of the GT77 or GE77, turn off the lighting and they look at least enough business like not to be an embarrassement in a professional setting and then we have the ROG laptops that are screaming "I am a gamer" including some silly sound effects when being turned on.

[1610ftw]

Looks like the 3070 Ti that for now the systems with the 12800HX are somehow gimped at least for Time Spy:

 

 

 

Looking at the leaderboard for all 3070 Ti systems there are a bunch of users with I believe the GE76 or a Uniwill/Tongfang chassis that average about about 2000 more in the graphics score which is more than most 3080 Ti systems!

[DukeCLR]

I have ordered some pressure paper, K5 Pro,and some thermal pads.  I'm going to get something for my CPU but I haven't decided on what to get.  Next week some time I should be able to take the heat sink off and take a peek at it.  This week's project will be to get Throttle stop installed and try some undervolting.

[DukeCLR]

I had a chance to get into the hidden BIOS and download TS.  I tried to follow the guide but when I got to the undervolting section I was unable to change anything.  Is there a setting I'm missing?

 

[DukeCLR]

I found this in the hidden BIOS. 

 

[DukeCLR]

I have been tinkering with things, so far a -.150 volt on the CPU core didn't seem to make much of a difference in the Cinebench score, I still need to learn what other changes I can make in the BIOS because XTU and TS will not allow me to make changes.   I was able to play with the slider on MSI AB and with a =125 on the GPU clock I was able to gain a bit on Timespy.  I ran out of time and I'll try to adjust it more down the road.