Dell Precision 7670 & Dell Precision 7770 owner's thread

[MyPC8MyBrain]

16 minutes ago, Aaron44126 said:

get the other version (Sunon fans).

 

mine arrived from factory with the sunon fans
 

 

25 minutes ago, keks2k said:

the best score I ever got was 19k on a first run CBR23

 

you will improve, sometimes less is more when undervolting, keep at it you'll get there,

below is my 7670 score which I received Friday, mine also had bad thermals out of the box,
i had to forcefully scrape off a dry as a bone paste on the CPU side which i replaced with LM, 
scroll back a page my undervolt settings are posted here if you want to give them a go,

[keks2k]

5 minutes ago, Aaron44126 said:

 

If you have the version of the heatsink with Delta fans, which most (all?) of us seem to be getting from the factory ...  See if you can get Dell to send a replacement heatsink and hopefully you get the other version (Sunon fans).  @win32asmguy reports that it works much better even with the stock thermal compound on it (but still far from perfect).

 

I've been meaning to do this myself, hopefully I can finally set aside some time to call them tomorrow...

 

[Edit]

Actually.  You have an iGPU system!  It might have a totally different heatsink than what we have seen so far.

 

Jep, it's the Delta fan version I received.
Going to drop them a message regarding the different fan suppliers and ask for possibilities / replacement.
Will report back the outcome.

Regarding the iGPU: yes, I did that on purpose as a) I don't need any graphics power and b) were hoping that thermals are better, as the cooling system doesn't have to dissipate extra heat from the separate circuitry (dGPU, VRMs, memory).
Even took care of power draw of the internal graphics during testing by also reducing its voltage - but to no avail: results didn't change, which is what I mostly were hoping for.

As for the internals:
 

[Aaron44126]

10 minutes ago, keks2k said:

Jep, it's the Delta fan version I received.
Going to drop them a message regarding the different fan suppliers and ask for possibilities / replacement.
Will report back the outcome.

 

I don't think it's just the fans, that just seems to be a differentiating factor between two different versions of the heatsink.  I suspect there are other differences (stock paste/thermal pads must be different as well or @win32asmguy's results wouldn't make sense).

 

There may or may not be two different versions of the iGPU heatsink as well.  In any case, Dell will be able to ship out a replacement but probably won't be able to "promise" you which version you will get.  The different versions of the heatsink have the same part number and are "supposed" to be interchangeable.

 

Not the first time Dell has done this.  An example I can think of is Precision M6800 NVIDIA GPU heatsink...  There are two versions and one of them is very much the desired one for modders who want to upgrade the GPU, but it's also rather difficult to find (especially since you can't search it out just by part number).

 

25 minutes ago, MyPC8MyBrain said:

mine arrived from factory with the sunon fans

 

Can you hear an obvious ramp-up sound when the fans first turn on from an off state?  (One annoyance I have with this system and I'm wondering if it's just the fans that I have.  My Precision 7560 doesn't make any audible sound at all when the fans go from off to low power.)

 

[Edit]

Looking at @keks2k's photos just above.

There is something mounted in the dGPU spot and it's connected to the motherboard in two spots.  I wonder what that card is for?  It made sense in prior systems that there had to be a pass-through card of sorts for the rear mDP and HDMI ports, but in this system all of the display output ports are right on the motherboard...

[keks2k]

17 minutes ago, MyPC8MyBrain said:

 

you will improve, sometimes less is more when undervolting, keep at it you'll get there,

below is my 7670 score which I received Friday, mine also had bad thermals out of the box,
i had to forcefully scrape off a dry as a bone paste on the CPU side which i replaced with LM, 
scroll back a page my undervolt settings are posted here if you want to give them a go,

 

Hehe, thanks for the encouraging words!
I've already really spent quite some time on it with uncountable runs, but especially the observation with cache frequency / voltage correlation makes me worry about a bad go from silicon lottery in my case. 😟
So that's why I'm unsure if putting LM on it would be a good idea, with returning/replacing it in my mind.

[MyPC8MyBrain]

27 minutes ago, Aaron44126 said:

Can you hear an obvious ramp-up sound when the fans first turn on from an off state?

no, i hear nothing i have to turn the laptop over to confirm they are spinning through slits at the bottom,

 

  

27 minutes ago, Aaron44126 said:

There is something mounted in the dGPU spot and it's connected to the motherboard in two spots.  I wonder what that card is for?

i'd guess its a placeholder to not veer from full gpu form factor and maintain unified rigidity,

what i find interesting is the cpu has the entire thermal solution to itself and its still struggling,

 

  

12 minutes ago, keks2k said:

makes me worry about a bad go from silicon lottery in my case

@keks2k i felt the same way first day or two until i got the undervolting going,
will you copy my exact undervlting setting and share your CB results?

without TM i would bet you will get to 22-23k easy,
(note that i also locked all my cores @4.7)

[keks2k]

3 minutes ago, MyPC8MyBrain said:

 

i'd guess its a placeholder to not veer from full gpu form factor and maintain unified rigidity,

that's what I thought as well, plus maybe potential power connectors.
And the sales rep told me that one might add in a dGPU later on - in that case you would need the yellow/brownish connectors anyway (not sure if it would make sense to supply those to any dGPU-less system in this case)

[keks2k]

8 minutes ago, MyPC8MyBrain said:

11 minutes ago, keks2k said:

makes me worry about a bad go from silicon lottery in my case

i felt the same way first day or two until i got the undervolting going,
will you copy my exact undervlting setting and share your CB results?
(note that i also locked all my cores @4.7)

Jep, tried them, among other things, as a base at some point, but voltages are way too aggressive: as I mentioned earlier, I had to cap my cache multiplier to 41 - which takes away quite some performance in CB.

Also liked/tried the idea of changing frequency settings: cap at 4.7/8/9GHz, disabled some e-cores (e.g. 4/8 and stuff), capped e-cores at 3 GHz, ... but no luck.

Only hope would be LM - but the longer I take it into consideration, the more I dislike it somehow.
Will take a night over it. See what the sales rep comes back with tomorrow (it's almost midnight here).

[DavidQ]

Good day every one.

I am hoping some one can guide me and give me an easy solution.

 

I have a 7550 that is been replaced by Dell. Its my second failed PC.

I have keep your HD on my 7550. M.2 1TB PCIe NVMe Class 40 Solid

 

They are replacing it with a 7770 4K 12950HX

32GB, 2x16GB ECC 4800MHz DDR5 SODIMM 1
M.2 2280 1 TB, Gen 4 PCIe x4 NVMe, Solid State Drive

 

I am wanting to take the 7550 SSD and place it in to the 7770 as a second SSD as a RAID SSD

 

If so how do I go about it considering it already has win etc loaded on it.

I dont want to keep any of the info just want to install it as a second as RAID

 

 

Or should I rather use it for something else.

 

[Aaron44126]

53 minutes ago, DavidQ said:

If so how do I go about it considering it already has win etc loaded on it.

I dont want to keep any of the info just want to install it as a second as RAID

If you add it to a RAID array, the drive will effectively be wiped.

[Aaron44126]

BIOS update 1.6.3.

- Improved the stability of the AC adapter when connected to the system.

(Not sure what that even means, and didn't they have the same note last time?  Could it be the AC/DC loadline thing?)

https://www.dell.com/support/home/en-us/drivers/driversdetails?driverid=V5H4C

 

Also, Intel graphics driver update; the new one is WDDM 3.1 for Windows 11 22H2.

https://www.dell.com/support/home/en-us/drivers/driversdetails?driverid=DXXV0

 

[Edit]

Updated both, no issue.  It won't let me install the Thunderbolt driver update from a few days ago, though.  It errors out during install and I end up with the old one.

 

[Edit 2]

Got the new Thunderbolt driver to install by uninstalling the old one first (rather than trying to upgrade it in-place, which repeatedly failed).

[DavidQ]

5 hours ago, Aaron44126 said:

If you add it to a RAID array, the drive will effectively be wiped.

Thanks for the reply.

Are you saying I simply power down the PC install it boot up and add second drive in the control panel as RAID array. Or must it be added in BIOS

Any where I can find the correct steps.

Also will this  M.2 1TB PCIe NVMe Class 40 Solid drive work with the new 7770 with the new SSD

M.2 2280 1 TB, Gen 4 PCIe x4 NVMe, Solid State Drive

 

Thanks for the assistance

[win32asmguy]

19 hours ago, Aaron44126 said:

Can you hear an obvious ramp-up sound when the fans first turn on from an off state?  (One annoyance I have with this system and I'm wondering if it's just the fans that I have.  My Precision 7560 doesn't make any audible sound at all when the fans go from off to low power.)

 

The sunon fans on the 7770 heatsink do make a creaking noise when they cycle on.

 

I asked the support rep who sent me the replacement heatsink if we could have the fans always run at a minimal speed via a bios option.

[Aaron44126]

46 minutes ago, DavidQ said:

Thanks for the reply.

Are you saying I simply power down the PC install it boot up and add second drive in the control panel as RAID array. Or must it be added in BIOS

Any where I can find the correct steps.

Also will this  M.2 1TB PCIe NVMe Class 40 Solid drive work with the new 7770 with the new SSD

M.2 2280 1 TB, Gen 4 PCIe x4 NVMe, Solid State Drive

 

Thanks for the assistance

 

You can configure RAID arrays both from the Intel Rapid Storage application (in Windows) and from the BIOS (press F12 at boot and pick the vaguely named option like "System configuration" to get to it).

 

You cannot add your Windows boot drive (that comes preinstalled in the 7770) to a RAID array without wiping it as well.  If you want your C drive to be part of the RAID array, then after you set up the array, you will have to install a new copy of Windows or restore a full system image backup.

 

If you are not comfortable with the steps to set it up, I would recommend that you forego RAID and just install your second 1 TB drive as a separate data drive.

 

AFAIK, any M.2 NVMe drive will work in any Precision 7000 system, as long as it fits (2280 size, or with an appropriate extender adapter, and no bulky heatsink attached).

[Kerry]

I saw Aaron's initial post regarding his thoughts about the 7770.  Lots of posts since then regarding various issues with thermals and performance.  Could someone put together a quick synopsis of where we stand with the 7670 and 7770, kind of as a catch up for all of us late to the thread?  I have been reading post after post with interest, but I am  getting lost in the details with regard to whether we should be buying these right now or wait for improvements at a later date.  I can do some tweaks, but I won't be repasting anything.  Here are some of my questions:

 

1.  The 16" UHD+ OLED screen on the 7670 vs. the 17.3" UHD screen on the 7770.  Love the blacks of the OLED, but I also love the 17" screen size (previously owned a MacBook Pro 17").  How are the blacks on the 17.3"?  Is the 17.3" really that much bigger or useful than the 16"?  400 Nits versus 500 Nits, 60 versus 120 Hz, do any of these make a significant enough difference to sway one either way.  I have no way to know which I would like better unless I just order one of each and see for myself.  Never had an OLED laptop before...

 

2.  Are the thermal throttle issues really that important to everyday use?  I won't be doing anything crazy aside from some coding algorithms (mainly data science) that can take a bit of time to run.  Some people have stated they are returning their machines because of these issues, but is that more out of principal (not getting what you are paying for) or are most people happy with these machines?

 

3.  Are there issues with the 7670 that are not present with the 7770, or vice versa?  What factors are pushing people to buy the 7670 over the 7770, or 7770 over the 7670?  There are some spec differences true, but for the most part you can build similar machines with both.  Should we be waiting until certain issues are fixed before purchasing?

 

New to the thread, and appreciate everyone's posts thus far.

[Aaron44126]

Had a weird thing happen.  I was playing a game and performance suddenly went to crap.  I Alt+Tabbed out, opened Task Manager, and went to the Performance tab (took like 3-4 minutes) and found the CPU capped at 0.39 GHz.  ...I unplugged the AC adapter cable and plugged it back in and everything started working fine again.  (So much for "improved stability of the AC adapter".  To note — I'm using an old PA-9E 240W adapter, not the one that shipped with the system.)

 

————————————————————

 

3 hours ago, Kerry said:

Here are some of my questions:

 

1. I view the 16" option sort of like a 15.6" display (from Precision 75X0 systems) that has been made slightly taller because of the 16:10 ratio, so they can call it 16".  I personally like the larger display of at 17" plus the extra NVMe drive slot and higher power limits thanks to modestly better thermals.

 

2. I do not see the thermal throttling as a major issue.  Stock Precision 7770 performs better than stock Precision 7760, and I guess that's what you would hope for.  It doesn't cause an issue with what I actually use the system for.  That said, if there is better performance within reach that doesn't take that much work to achieve, I will certainly go for it.  And it is a bit disappointing that Dell shipped the system in this state when there are some easy fixes to nudge performance up.  (Looking at IA AC/DC loadline values, again, something like a 20% gain in CPU performance just by tweaking that — at least that's what happened for me — and you don't even have to open the case.)

 

3. I feel like we don't have enough information on 7670 vs. 7770 to determine if one is more issue-prone than the other.  The thermal setup & potential improvements seem to be similar between the two.

[1610ftw]

On 10/12/2022 at 10:30 PM, MyPC8MyBrain said:

 

mine arrived from factory with the sunon fans
 

 

 

you will improve, sometimes less is more when undervolting, keep at it you'll get there,

below is my 7670 score which I received Friday, mine also had bad thermals out of the box,
i had to forcefully scrape off a dry as a bone paste on the CPU side which i replaced with LM, 
scroll back a page my undervolt settings are posted here if you want to give them a go,

 

 

That is an excellent CB R23 score and shows how much manufacturers leave on the table these days, shameful.

 

Would you mind doing the 10 minute run, too?

I expect it to be somewhere in between what you achieve with a single run and the 30 minute version.

 

 

[Kataphract]

11 hours ago, Kerry said:

 

1.  The 16" UHD+ OLED screen on the 7670 vs. the 17.3" UHD screen on the 7770.  Love the blacks of the OLED, but I also love the 17" screen size (previously owned a MacBook Pro 17").  How are the blacks on the 17.3"?  Is the 17.3" really that much bigger or useful than the 16"?  400 Nits versus 500 Nits, 60 versus 120 Hz, do any of these make a significant enough difference to sway one either way.  I have no way to know which I would like better unless I just order one of each and see for myself.  Never had an OLED laptop before...

 

 

I can answer for the display, as CGI artist and designer, it was crucial aspect of choice for me.

I personally find the 16" 16:10 decently bigger (it's not just lot taller it's bit wider too) than the usual 15,4" 16:9 my wife is using on OLED Razer Blade 15. I find the 15,4" surprisingly tiny and this is lot more decent, more than numbers alone would tell.

But when compared to my 17" 16:9 Razer Blade 17, which is identical in height but has that one inch in width, it's still a lot. But that only matters for content creation and consumption, I would say a programmer would already find them decently comparable since the height is identical and you get even higher PPI density.

On quality level, OLED is simply superior in most aspects (bar special cases like flickering sensitivity). I am ok with IPS as long as it has at least some saving grace (glossy panel, FALD backlighting, better polarizer tech), but the 7770 has just 120HZ refresh rate going for it, it's very run of the mill average. With matte coating it not only has the subpar actual contrast of IPS panel, it has the subpar perceived contrast as well. I am speaking as digital artist, for me display is very crucial and others might not mind.
I am personally extremely surprised they sell even FullHD 250Nit IPS panels as option too. You won't find that on 300 Dollars Chromebooks from Aliexpress. That's just fascinating option for laptop whose even cheapest version is expensive proposition. Why even offer that?

For Performance/Throttling. This is problem because the main purpose of this class of laptops is expandability and performance. If absolutely performance is not required, thick Precision isn't necessary in first place and thin Precision (XPS-line) already offering interesting alternative. 
My desktops are 64-core Threadrippers and 56-core Dual-Xeon stations. I chose Alder-Lake HX to get the benefits of the HX desktop like performance. 
If Dell's cooling design throttles HX back to H-range, what is the point of even offering the HX range in them? You're paying for something you're not getting.

As designer I will comment on the looks as well. I like understated and clean design, so my industry favorites are clearly Macbook Pro (M1/2-series), Dell XPS line, etc.. Dell 7670 with OLED panels has minimal display chin and has glass cover extending over bezels making for clean and smooth modern look. 7770 with the usual bezel inset and massive plastic chin makes for unattractive outdated look.
I know this last opinion will not be popular among usual audience of this class of laptops, but I believe workstations should be as cleanly designed from visual stand point as possible too. I work many hours behind computer daily and I create beautiful things, I expect the machine I will be staring at to be at least somewhat attractive, function alone isn't enough for me.

[Aaron44126]

2 hours ago, Kataphract said:

With matte coating it not only has the subpar actual contrast of IPS panel, it has the subpar perceived contrast as well. I am speaking as digital artist, for me display is very crucial and others might not mind.

 

I didn't mention in my post above... "blacks" in the 17.3" 4K panel are definitely "meh".  It's not too at all when you are doing "computing" (web browsing, office-type work, coding, etc.) but I think it is pretty noticeable if you get into photos/videos/games.  I did complain about it some pages back but I have gotten used to it and "fixed" the backlight bleed so I am good with the panel now.  But, if you do creative/graphics stuff then I think it would be hard to suggest anything other than the IPS panel (unless maybe you mostly work with the laptop docked).

 

I'm not into the creative/art space, and myself, I'd also rather have a non-glossy panel that is not covered by glass, I don't really like the glare or reflection.  (I was on a system with a glossy panel from like 2008-2012 and I always wished I didn't have it.)  So I do not regret choosing the 17" IPS over the 16" OLED.

 

I guess, at least the choice is there so you can weigh it in when deciding which model to get, rather than being forced down one path or the other.

[TwistedAndy]

2 hours ago, Kataphract said:

I am personally extremely surprised they sell even FullHD 250Nit IPS panels as option too. You won't find that on 300 Dollars Chromebooks from Aliexpress. That's just fascinating option for laptop whose even cheapest version is expensive proposition. Why even offer that?

 

It depends on what and where you're doing. For indoor use with the normal lightning conditions (300-500 lux) the optimal brightness level is somewhere between 100 and 150 nits. I tend to use ~100-120 nits both on the laptop and external monitor to minimize the eyes fatigue.

 

2 hours ago, Kataphract said:

If Dell's cooling design throttles HX back to H-range, what is the point of even offering the HX range in them? You're paying for something you're not getting.

 

From my perspective, the positioning of HX SKUs are weird. They start outperforming H SKUs only on higher power levels (>75W). But I don't know any laptop design, which can handle this power with acceptable amount of noise (~40 dBA). Usually, you'll get something closer to 45 dBA at 75W and ~50 dBA at 120W. It's almost impossible to productively work with the 50 dBA laptop for a noticeable period of time.

[1610ftw]

40 minutes ago, TwistedAndy said:

From my perspective, the positioning of HX SKUs are weird. They start outperforming H SKUs only on higher power levels (>75W). But I don't know any laptop design, which can handle this power with acceptable amount of noise (~40 dBA). Usually, you'll get something closer to 45 dBA at 75W and ~50 dBA at 120W. It's almost impossible to productively work with the 50 dBA laptop for a noticeable period of time.

 

120W sustained for the CPU might be possible with a Clevo X170 style laptop with a unified vapor chamber and liquid metal but for that to happen a lot of things would have to move in the opposite direction from where they are moving now. 

[Aaron44126]

2 hours ago, TwistedAndy said:

I tend to use ~100-120 nits both on the laptop and external monitor to minimize the eyes fatigue.

 

Man, I have to use ≥300 nits (indoors) or the image just seems really dim to me.  I do mostly work with "dark mode" applications though.  (I do think that 500 nits is too high, I have to turn the brightness down from max on these newer panels.  On the flipside, I think it's crazy that they are selling a 250 nits panel in one of these.)

 

2 hours ago, TwistedAndy said:

They start outperforming H SKUs only on higher power levels (>75W). But I don't know any laptop design, which can handle this power with acceptable amount of noise (~40 dBA).

 

I typically work with turbo boost disabled during "productivity" periods specifically to keep fan noise under control.  But I unlock it for gaming, and for that I just put on ANC headphones and the fan noise becomes irrelevant.  Nice to be able to have it both ways.

[operator]

Today I finally got my 7670.

Did not have much time for detailed tests or even opening the chassis. But here are some observations.
Its my first "glossy" display since years. The colors and blacks are awesome but the reflections are killing me.
I don't know if I can get used to it on my daily work. And man...I miss the physical touchpad buttons and status LEDs from the old series...

 

I knew that there are thermal issues....but only clicked through the Windows first-time-startup menu and already noticed there
that the keyboard went way to hot as I thought it would be. I mean when you start noticing that they keyboard is hot,
you are not comfortable working the whole day with this - feels like heated keys.
Just in case sb. is interested in: CPU was between 2% and 25%. I measured around 40°C (104°F) on the keys where my fingers reside and 46°C (115°F) on the top keyboard frame.
Man, thats enormous for that little amount of CPU stress. Will do some further tests, but what to expect when the CPU is really doing some work..?
I compared to an old Precision M4800, which had 60% CPU load. Temps on the keyboard were around 25°C to 28°C (77°F to 82°F), so not noticeable warm.
Even now the 7670 is in idle with 0 percent, the keyboard is still at higher 30-ish temps. And the system will ramp up to fans regularly on full power for some minutes.....

 

I did a quick CB23 test, out of the box with just Windows updates installed.
It scored 14869 multicore and 1796 singlecore on the first/second 10-minutes run with a i7-12850HX. -> Thats even equal/better than some (not all of course) others first-time run on the 7770 with i9 here. 😉 How is that possible?

I also noticed that HWiNFO showed max CPU package power 130W, IA Cores Power 120W and Total System Power 202W.
Compared to screenshots of @SilverAzide with 7770 and i9, this is higher on my 7670 with i7. -> 130W/120W/202W on 7670 vs. 119W/110W/183W on 7770.
I'm just wondering if this is something good..?

 

PS: I noticed that keyboard did not get any hotter than 40°C/46°C (104°F/115°F) during CB23. But strange it will heat up also during minor CPU load so fast!
 

[Aaron44126]

1 hour ago, operator said:

I knew that there are thermal issues....but only clicked through the Windows first-time-startup menu and already noticed there

that the keyboard went way to hot as I thought it would be. I mean when you start noticing that they keyboard is hot,
you are not comfortable working the whole day with this - feels like heated keys.

 

Same suggestion I frequently give .....

These things can go to 100 ºC on the CPU in no time.  Turn off "turbo boost" unless you really need it for your workload.  It will help with both fan noise and surface temperature.  (See "Turbo boost toggle" link my signature for some options to quickly/automatically enable & disable it.)

[operator]

14 minutes ago, Aaron44126 said:

Same suggestion I frequently give .....

 

Yes, did read your helpful article about Turboboost before and will take it into consideration.

Just wanted to emphasize the out-of-the-box thoughts.

[TwistedAndy]

7 hours ago, Aaron44126 said:

I typically work with turbo boost disabled during "productivity" periods specifically to keep fan noise under control.  But I unlock it for gaming, and for that I just put on ANC headphones and the fan noise becomes irrelevant.  Nice to be able to have it both ways.

 

I prefer keeping Turbo Boost enabled. My XPS 17 has a "lazy" fan behavior. It spins the fans after 30-50 seconds of sustained load. Then fans are spinning with 45 dBA for about 20-30 seconds, and then settle nearly 38-39 dBA with 45W PL1. Maybe, Dell Precision 7670/7770 have something similar.

 

From my experience, their power management on modern devices is very complicated. On Alder Lake laptops it is managed by the Intel Dynamic Tuning Technology (DTT). It has a system service and a software device. It can adjust power settings (including power limits) and other stuff.

 

2 hours ago, operator said:

Man, thats enormous for that little amount of CPU stress. Will do some further tests, but what to expect when the CPU is really doing some work..?

 

It can be caused by active nVidia GPU as well. It draws 10-15W idle. You can check it using HWiNFO64.

 

Also, in some cases, there are some exotic things like discrete TB controllers. They can easily draw 5W if the power management is disabled for them in Device Manager and heat the keyboard surface nearby.