Dell Precision 7670 & Dell Precision 7770 owner's thread

[keks2k]

55 minutes ago, ATAN said:

While what you say is true, how come they specced this "high end" machine with cooling that can barely keep up 55-75w sustained cooling depending on where your located? I only have a 12950hx in my system so I truly woe for those of you set on keeping this with a dgpu. The only reason I'm considering it is because I might be able to stustain 85w after some reversable modding and I'm running an egpu setup.

 

This!

 

I'm wondering if we could get the dGPU heatsink in order to gain a little headroom.

At least for short spikes it should help, maybe even a bit more.

 

If only I didn't like the overall machine.

 

The Lenovo Legion 7i was actually able to run it on sustained loads around 130W.

Downsides for me were the fans never really turning off and running with a high pitched sound. Plus the slightly rickety keyboard 

 

The Lenovo P16 also got returned as a) the bios was completely locked, so no UV and stuff, b) memory only ran at 4000 and c) I didn't get used to its fans either. 😔

 

BTW. is anyone running the 7770 on Linux, or are you all Windows-bound?

I'm getting thrown back to 55W rather quick, whereas on Windows it stays around 85W so there are some things going on with their drivers (or maybe even DTT).

[MyPC8MyBrain]

here are tests i run on the new untouched 7670 with original paste from Dell,

this unit had a much better binned cpu I was able to further undervolt it in certain stages of testing, i did not try to achieve the best score possible in each stage, i am sure these scores can be further improved, i run two tests and recorded the better score in each phase, 
 

specific CPU undervolt settings used for this unit
-174.8mV on CPU Core with IccMax 255.75
-29.3mV  on Intel GPU
-29.3mV  on CPU P Cache with IccMax 255.75
-29.3mV  on iGPU Unslice
-69.3mV  on Sytem Agent
-29.3mV  on E cache
Long Power PL1 set to 91W (FYI Default should be 55 not 85 on TS!)
all Cores set to 4.7Mhz

 

(GPU Core Clock  +200Mhz overvolt using MSI Afterburner
(memory clocks can be overvolted +1000Mhz but shows no score improvements))
 

in the end it is acting the same as the pervious one with similar results and scores even with Dell's paste,
which leads to the conclusion that the thermal solution in this beast is simply insufficient even with Dell engineers castrating both cpu and gpu it is just not enough to contain this monster cpu and gpu at the same time or either these on their own.

 

 

Bios Balanced -> 3DMARK Score: 4572  Graphics Score: 4664  CPU Score: 4113
https://www.3dmark.com/spy/31887499

Bios Cool -> 3DMARK Score: 5206  Graphics Score: 4811  CPU Score: 9739
https://www.3dmark.com/spy/31887788

Bios Ultimate -> 3DMARK Score: 9869  Graphics Score: 9927  CPU Score: 9554
https://www.3dmark.com/spy/31888414

Bios Ultimate + LoadLine -> 3DMARK Score: 9898  Graphics Score: 9926  CPU Score: 9746
https://www.3dmark.com/spy/31889453

Bios Ultimate + LoadLine + Resizable BAR -> 3DMARK Score: 9956  Graphics Score: 9999  CPU Score: 9720
https://www.3dmark.com/spy/31890095

Bios Ultimate + LoadLine + Resizable BAR + Hybrid Display off ->
3DMARK Score: 10124 Graphics Score: 10113 CPU Score: 10192
https://www.3dmark.com/spy/31890707

Bios Ultimate + LoadLine + Resizable BAR + Hybrid Display off + GPU 200Mhz Overclock ->
3DMARK Score: 10614 Graphics Score: 10687 CPU Score: 10224
https://www.3dmark.com/spy/31891381

Bios Ultimate + LoadLine + Resizable BAR + Hybrid Display off + GPU 200Mhz Overclock + Secret Sauce ->
3DMARK Score: 11132 Graphics Score: 10710 CPU Score: 14335
https://www.3dmark.com/spy/31892178

Bios Cool + LoadLine + Resizable BAR + Hybrid Display off + GPU 200Mhz Overclock + CPU Undervolt ->
CB23 Score: 22332 

Bios Cool + LoadLine + Resizable BAR + Hybrid Display off + GPU 200Mhz Overclock + CPU Undervolt + Secret Sauce ->
CB23 Score: 22263

Bios Cool + LoadLine + Resizable BAR + Hybrid Display off + GPU 200Mhz Overclock + CPU Undervolt + Secret Sauce + single channel 8GB SODIMM ->
CB23 Score: 21990

Bios Ultimate + LoadLine + Resizable BAR + Hybrid Display off + GPU 200Mhz Overclock + Secret Sauce + single channel 8GB SODIMM ->
3DMARK Score: 10786 Graphics Score: 10537 CPU Score: 12458
https://www.3dmark.com/spy/31897743

[operator]

2 hours ago, MyPC8MyBrain said:

Bios Ultimate + LoadLine + Resizable BAR + Hybrid Display off ->
3DMARK Score: 10124 Graphics Score: 10113 CPU Score: 10192
https://www.3dmark.com/spy/31890707

 

Thanks for doing all the tests and the sum up with all the necessary steps!

Agree that cooling is at the end the biggest pain point and does not make sense at all.

 

But it seems like there are still (factory?) differences to my system since your CPU score in 3DMARK is only 10k compared to your 15k on your first unit.

I just recap the following numbers with my i7:

 

Bios Ultimate + LoadLine + Resizable BAR + Hybrid Display off ->
3DMARK Score: 10881

Graphics Score: 10418

CPU Score: 14550

 

 

That would mean I could theoretically improve a siginifcant amount by adding "secret sauce", "GPU overclock" and "CPU undervolt".

[MyPC8MyBrain]

@operator YVW 😉

 

47 minutes ago, operator said:

But it seems like there are still (factory?) differences

original high score was with LM TIM, granted these scores can be further improved,

i only run 2 tests for each phase, i didn't spend too much time trying to get the highest score in each test,
whichever the highest score out of the two was i recorded and moved on, so further tinkering and more patience can yield better result, this run was very good for on the fly test and was one of the highest score overall for either unit,

3 hours ago, MyPC8MyBrain said:

Bios Ultimate + LoadLine + Resizable BAR + Hybrid Display off + GPU 200Mhz Overclock + Secret Sauce ->
3DMARK Score: 11132 Graphics Score: 10710 CPU Score: 14335
https://www.3dmark.com/spy/31892178

 

as a baseline and tuning progression i think these tests represents this unit fairly, i would have kept it if 30%-50%  were not neutered from the gpu and cpu, overall yes it gets hot and will get hotter under heavy loads which is acceptable and expected, this is still a robust versatile workstation platform with allot under the hood, but it can be set to run very cool and packs allot of punch, it just lacks adequate thermals to get the most out of its hardware lineup which will inevitably remain bound and locked to thermal limitation in this specific design,

  

47 minutes ago, operator said:

That would mean I could theoretically improve a siginifcant amount by adding "secret sauce", "GPU overclock" and "CPU undervolt".

indeed, gpu overvolt alone if stable should result in consistent 5%+ increase gpu score on 3DMARK,

[MyPC8MyBrain]

here is a little farewell gift to my Dell 7X70 fam 
all 2352 visible and hidden bios options extracted into easy to use and read format,
proceed with caution, with great power comes great responsibility! 

All setup_var Bios 1.6.3 Options 7X70.txt  plain command list Bios 1.6.3 7X70.txt

 

(some of the variables may be listed under other menu options not CpuSetup)
all menu options
Name: SaSetup
Name: MeSetup
Name: CpuSetup
Name: PchSetup
Name: SiSetup
Name: Setup
Name: BoardInfoSetup
Name: PciBusSetup
Name: SetupVolatileData
Name: SetupCpuFeatures
Name: CpuSetupVolatileData
Name: TbtSetupVolatileData
Name: MeSetupStorage
Name: DebugSetupVolatileData
Name: TcgSetup
Name: IccAdvancedSetupDataVar

[Light]

Got my second memory stick, shipped very quickly (thanks Dell!)

 

I think I may have a defective back panel though as opening the chasis, very very carefully, another of the black tabs broke off. I opened the previous generation 7760 to move an ssd at the same time, which is now a year old and had no issue. Never broke a tab on the previous generation 77x0 before. The 7770 on the other hand took 10 minutes to carefully try and open, and again a small black tab broke off. Seems like the tab plastic is very brittle, which I'm not thrilled about for a 3k+ computer.

 

Now the memory --

Doing a simple compression test, I'm getting a 47% increase in speed! So definitely, dual channel is the only way to go! Thanks for the heads up in this thread... nice boost for $300.

[ATAN]

Ill be asking someone in sales or engineering how they thought they could get away without atleast a vapor chamber.

[1610ftw]

On 10/29/2022 at 1:37 AM, ATAN said:

Ill be asking someone in sales or engineering how they thought they could get away without atleast a vapor chamber.

 

Tell them that everybody is scratching their heads at the utterly insufficient cooling and power envelope especially of the 7770 but also the thick 7670.

Vapor chamber would be the best way forward indeed and it seems to work very well with the 5760.

[Light]

Windows defender scan runs slightly faster on previous generation Dell Precision with 8 physical cores (16 with hyperthreading) than on latest generation with 16 physical cores (24 with hyperthreading)

 

Previous generation Precision:

5 minutes 36 seconds
986,702 files scanned

 

Latest generation precision:
5 minutes 45 seconds
896,187 files scanned

 

Installations have identical software installed, and identical SSD installed. Latest generation has slightly less to scan because no intermediate software updates or downloads on the SSD... yet it takes slightly longer despite the extra cores, newer cpu generation, etc. 

[MyPC8MyBrain]

the 4 power plan in bios needs overhauling, these been dragged over and over from previous generation and don't really fit the bill for these new powerful cpu gpu combo floating the market now days, 
if we take a closer look half of them are pointless and obsolete,
Balanced cannot really balance this many cores, gpu, and igpu efficiently,

Cool is the only viable option for daily driving this chassis comfortably,

Quit is completely obsolete and pointless, there are no spinning drives etc. to govern now days
(nor further ramping down of fans is really desired for these powerful combos),

Performance just drives everything too hot for daily driving with chassis limited thermal capabilities,
(although performance in bios and classic S3 balanced or power saver in windows is manageable for daily use)

[Light]

I mostly use mine for light loads and I like the near-silent operation, so I leave mine set as shipped, at Optimized which I think is the same as Balanced.

I just did a test and changed it to Ultra Performance which makes the fans audible all the time.

 

At the start of a full Windows Defender Scan, I saw the cpu graphs more "normal" (like previous precisions where all would go to 100%). With fan mode Optimized I see only a few cpus at 100% and the rest idle (parked) during more of the early part of the scan.  However, half way through the scan after having all cpus pegged near 100% most of the time, with fan mode Ultra Performance, I see 8 of the 16 performance cores go to parked, and the full scan ended up taking 6 minutes and 8 seconds with fan mode set to Ultra Performance. 

[Light]

Changed back from Ultra Performance to Optimized and the Windows Defender full scan completed faster with it set to Optimized

 

Ultra Performance

6 minutes 8 seconds

Optimized
5 minutes 51 seconds

 

Previous Generation Precision set to Optimized

5 minutes 36 seconds

 

These results are each not what I expected.

 

I still really like this laptop, but I hope a bios update can tweak things a bit in terms of performance. 

 

Also a minor note, not for performance but for focus -- and I believe has been stated earlier in this thread and led to the fan control, etc. tweaks -- but I don't like the "voom voom" ... of the fan when you do something simple like open an amazon tab in a web browser when on Optimized. The previous Precisions did a smooth job for me in terms of acoustical ramping up. They'd ramp up when cpu hit 100% so the fans would sound like a jet, but somehow the little "voom voom" and then off again when opening a browser tab is distracting to me on this one. A little tweak there would be nice and greatly appreciated too if possible.

[MyPC8MyBrain]

20 minutes ago, Light said:

These results are each not what I expected.

in performance it is thermal throttling on you, the same goes for optimized (Balanced),
give cool in bios a go, you should complete most cpu task much faster and remain cool to the touch,
 

[Light]

1 hour ago, MyPC8MyBrain said:

in performance it is thermal throttling on you, the same goes for optimized (Balanced),
give cool in bios a go, you should complete most cpu task much faster and remain cool to the touch,
 

 

Will give it a try. The description in bios threw me off:

 

Quote

Cool
Processor and cooling fan speed are adjusted for a cooler system surface temperature. This may mean reduced system performance and more noise"

Ultra performance reads:
Processor and cooling fan speed are increased for more performance...

Edit: added:

Just gave it a try, and I don't think cool is going to work on my system. The keyboard area is cooler. The fan noise is constant but too loud for my liking when it's idle, with nothing running but windows itself, but running Windows Defender Scan I'm seeing CPU speeds reported by task manager 1.35 to 1.75 Ghz right now for the last couple minutes.

 

Windows Defender just finished its run, and cool is the slowest for me yet:

 

Cool

8 minutes 30 seconds

 

(Trying to beat the previous generation Precision which clocked 5 minutes 36 seconds doing the same task)

 

[MyPC8MyBrain]

use HWiNFO or hwmonitor tool (i prefer hwmonitor simplicity) to see what is going on behind the scenes with thermals, Mhz, volt & wattage consumption, and many other critical stats when you run tests on your systems or at idle, you will gain a lot more insight to your systems behavior,

[MyPC8MyBrain]

ooh.... my eye clicky here

apparently I am not the only one returning his 7X70 system,
Dell's outlet listing 17 7670's at eye watering reduced prices for platform that's just been released,
listed at -70% below retail, with higher peripheral specs minus my gpu are going below 2k 😮 

while older lesser generation systems listed right next to these are priced much higher!

every 7670 configuration listed there is with the 12950HX under the hood 😞 

[keks2k]

18 minutes ago, MyPC8MyBrain said:

ooh.... my eye clicky here

apparently I am not the only one returning his 7X70 system,
Dell's outlet listing 17 7670's at eye watering reduced prices for platform that's just been released,
listed at -70% below retail, with higher peripheral specs minus my gpu are going below 2k 😮 

while older lesser generation systems listed right next to these are priced much higher!

every 7670 configuration listed there is with the 12950HX under the hood 😞 

 

Let's hope they're drawing the right conclusions from that feedback.. 🤞

[MyPC8MyBrain]

for reference i got mine with 12950HX 8GB Ram 256GB M.2 4k Touch and 3080 for around $4200,
it appears that i paid $2400 more for the privilege of having a 3080,
minus 24GB ram and minus 750GB storage, 

 

Precision 7670 + 12950HX + 32GB Ram + 4k Touch + 1TB drive + Win Pro lic at $1800
next to older lesser 5000 Precision series at $2400
is an admission of guilt in case you missed it 😉 

[ATAN]

17 hours ago, MyPC8MyBrain said:

for reference i got mine with 12950HX 8GB Ram 256GB M.2 4k Touch and 3080 for around $4200,
it appears that i paid $2400 more for the privilege of having a 3080,
minus 24GB ram and minus 750GB storage, 

 

Precision 7670 + 12950HX + 32GB Ram + 4k Touch + 1TB drive + Win Pro lic at $1800
next to older lesser 5000 Precision series at $2400
is an admission of guilt in case you missed it 😉 

My 7770 w/ 12950hx, 8gb ddr5(+$240 for kingston 64gb), 256 gb m.2, ubuntu, the 2nd lowest display, and smart card/SSD door for $2500(financing at gross rates if late+ Mastercard sale + online sale = ~45% off MSRP)

A little high for a no GPU system. I'm tempted to send mine back and grab one of those 16" and save the 700-500 overall.

 

Still not exactly worth, but its a linear upgrade from say… a gdp winmax 2, which is my main alternative. Its cant really pass 40w and when at 40w this laptop smashes it by 10-30% in workloads, not that you should be doing that on the hx platform. Also it isnt worth talking about in games in the 96eu format let alone the 32eu that hx cpus come in but i knew that going in.

Im leaning on the side of wanting to keep it, been running it 77w/92w/5s with no issues, better than any ryzen laptop but not by too much, if your deaf. Much better single core 1900 on geekbench5 and 11k multi no ecores. This cooler cannot handle 70w+ to save its life. Its likely dell saw the 55w tdp and said bet.
 

If i keep it i gotta figure out how to lock my power settings in efi so i can start virtualization again.

Edited November 1, 2022 by ATAN
for clarity as i was busy

[MyPC8MyBrain]

6 hours ago, ATAN said:

tempted to send mine back and grab one of those 16"

keep an eye out there might be another deal in refurbished department,
i just sent back two more brand new 16" 7670 with 12950HX, 4k Touch, 3080Ti, 8GB SoDiMM, 256GB M.2,

[ATAN]

2 hours ago, MyPC8MyBrain said:

keep an eye out there might be another deal in refurbished department,
i just sent back two more brand new 16" 7670 with 12950HX, 4k Touch, 3080Ti, 8GB SoDiMM, 256GB M.2,

Will do, still have about two weeks before I have to commit to keeping it.

[MyPC8MyBrain]

it seems that the 7770 has a similar but more robust heat pipe under the hood, 
not seeing any 7770 being returned makes me think should i give the 7770 a go?

my main concern beside having the same heat issue is with it being too big for my liking,

i am currently using M3800, comparing that to the XPS17 size i loved it size wise for a daily driver,

even the 7670 as chunky as it is (which i actually like) has a smaller footprint than my current m3800, 

anyone moved from traditional 15" zise to the 7770 with first hand experience? 

[Aaron44126]

18 minutes ago, MyPC8MyBrain said:

anyone moved from traditional 15" zise to the 7770 with first hand experience? 

 

I have both 7560 and 7770 that I use every day.  I personally prefer the 17" size.  (The office provided me with the 15" system.)  Nice big screen, better cooling potential, more storage.  I don't use it "portable" that much though.  (I do carry it around from room to room, but I don't sit with it on my lap or anything.)  For size comparison, you can look at some photos and look specifically at the keyboard to get a feel for the size difference.  The two systems have exactly the same keyboard but the 7560/7670 have barely any room between the left and right side of the keyboard and the edge of the system, while the 7770 has about a full inch on each side.

[MyPC8MyBrain]

@Aaron44126 Thank you :)
just as yourself i don't use my laptop for its "portability" its mainly stationary on my desk,

occasionally ill bring it to the kitchen to watch something while i make dinner, and i never use it on my lap,

i do have Samsung's CHG90  a 49" ultra wide screen taking most of my 7ft. desk space
(the CHG90 is connected to a custom build Corsair ONE i160 sitting on the left of the screen),
leaving me with sliver of minimal space on the right side for my laptop to coexists at a slight angle, 

previous generations of full size mobile Precision 17 were too big for my desk and personal taste,
seeing the XPS 17" with smaller footprint than my current 15" M3800 made me a big fan of the XPS 17",
 

even the latest 7670 with its bit odd taller screen ratio next to my old 15" still has smaller footprint,

if the new 17" is an inch less wider than previous 17" generations i think i can live with that,

the expandability and options under the hood with the 7770 are phenomenal and cannot be matched anywhere,  if only the heat can be little better managed i would keep it,

i am thinking i will give the 7770 a go with same config as with the 7670.
12950HX, 3080 Ti, 4k screen, 256GB NVME (i already have 4 2TB 970's),
8GB SODIMM module (will upgrade later with 64GB aftermarket kit),
any other hardware recommendation/consideration I should make?

 

[ATAN]

1 hour ago, MyPC8MyBrain said:

@Aaron44126 Thank you 🙂
just as yourself i don't use my laptop for its "portability" its mainly stationary on my desk,

occasionally ill bring it to the kitchen to watch something while i make dinner, and i never use it on my lap,

i do have Samsung's CHG90  a 49" ultra wide screen taking most of my 7ft. desk space
(the CHG90 is connected to a custom build Corsair ONE i160 sitting on the left of the screen),
leaving me with sliver of minimal space on the right side for my laptop to coexists at a slight angle, 

previous generations of full size mobile Precision 17 were too big for my desk and personal taste,
seeing the XPS 17" with smaller footprint than my current 15" M3800 made me a big fan of the XPS 17",
 

even the latest 7670 with its bit odd taller screen ratio next to my old 15" still has smaller footprint,

if the new 17" is an inch less wider than previous 17" generations i think i can live with that,

the expandability and options under the hood with the 7770 are phenomenal and cannot be matched anywhere,  if only the heat can be little better managed i would keep it,

i am thinking i will give the 7770 a go with same config as with the 7670.
12950HX, 3080 Ti, 4k screen, 256GB NVME (i already have 4 2TB 970's),
8GB SODIMM module (will upgrade later with 64GB aftermarket kit),
any other hardware recommendation/consideration I should make?

 

I have been considering a mod, seeing as how we have a less funky than normal copper baseplate/mounting system, why not swap it out for a random vapor chamber. Example:

https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/wakefield-vette/VC-106-70-3/7603219

 

Whilst it might not help that much with overall thermal ability without some heatsinks/heatpipes+heatsinks and foam to further direct the internal airflow, it could still help with high power boosts above 100w.

Ive been mentally abusing myself trying to figure out a mod to add more headroom but its seeming like custom work/soldering is neccesarry.