HP ZBook Fury G9/G10 (16") General Thread

[Easa]

Hello,

I see that, compared to Dell, HP section on this forum is defacto dead, so I will try to at least "keep the heat and the lights on" here (its a weird saying in my country). I will appreciate any valuable input to this thread, feel free to correct me if I am wrong & I hope that this thread helps at least one person choosing his/hers new work machine.

 

This year we saw HP merging their 17 & 15 Workstation laptop into one 16" 16:10 device, same as Lenovo. The new ZBook Fury G9 sports all-new chassis both design and structure-wise, of course equipped with mobile Alder Lake HX processors and standalone Intel WM690 PCH solution. As of October 2022, there is almost zero feedback from actual users

 

For the specifications, we can start at ZBook_Fury_G9.pdf  product sheet that seems to cover almost all the necessary information. There is also a very nice YouTube video from official HP channel, basically a step-by-step service manual:

 

 

Compared to Dell Precision 7670 and P16 as its main competitors (and the previous G8):

The Good:

 

• 4x M.2 PCI-E slots (3x on 7670, 2x on P16)
• 4x Easily accessible DDR5 SO-DIMM slots 
• WLAN adapter in mPCI-E slot (soldered on P16)
• Everything is made out of metal
• Classic touchpad with hardware buttons (YAY!)
• Beefy heatsink with Vapor Chamber and 2 additional heatpipes
• Choice between Per-Key RGB keyboard or Spill-Resistant Quiet DuraKey keyboard
• 8-Cell battery (6 cell on both 7670 and P16)
• Weight starts at 2.39kg which is less that 7670 with Slim chassis
• 5MP Webcam with shutter

 

The Bad:

 

• According to provided document, there is an "Average Operating Power" of 55W for CPU and <80W for GPU. At the same time, there is a 230W provided power brick & 280W docking station available. It is unclear if it will be 55W for CPU (with variable spikes up to 157W) and strictly 80W for GPU, or there will be a dynamic distribution of power between the two. If you own the Z with a GPU >A3000, please test this and provide results. On the Fury G8, even A5000 was restricted to 80W.
• No GeForce option
• No QHD 120+Hz display option 
• Fans blow hot air directly against the hinge cover, similar to MacBooks 
• PointStick / Trackpoint has been officially dropped, along with its proprietary buttons
• Keyboard is an integral part of palmrest => Expensive and complicated replacement
• PRICE of both the actual system & available options, especially GPUs, compared to Dell

 

The Rest:

 

• From a quick glance at the service video, CPU VRM looks solid & better than both competitors, this is purely a speculation as I cannot see the exact used components. In previous generations (2014+) HP had almost always the better VRM solution compared to Dell and Lenovo Workstations, but also more restricted power delivery to CPU and GPU.
• If you watch the video closely, you will notice that there are in fact 2 different models disassembled. There are two heatsinks, one with Vapor Chamber and thicker Delta fans (until around 28:00 in video), after that there is basic model without Vapor chamber and with thinner fans, then the Vapor chamber heatsink again.

 

Summary:

 

Typing this on a first generation ZBook 15 with maxed out specifications, I am quite excited to see that a worthy sucessor is here, at last. Cooling looks promising. If the TDP/TGP limits are dynamic and the GPU will actually go above 80W, I will actually purchase it, or the Rocket Lake & Ada Lovelace refresh of this chassis (7670 still in the game though). With some tweaking like a proper thermal pads and liquid metal application or at least a good paste, this will be one beast of a laptop for productivity. I would also swap the display for 2560x1600 144-165Hz IPS if not available directly when ordering via sales rep. 

 

HP, if you are reading this, it seems that you have done good. Looking forward to actual reviews to confirm this.  

REVIEWS (Updated 22/11/2022):

Laptopmedia: https://laptopmedia.com/review/hp-zbook-fury-16-g9

 

[serpro69]

Very nice overview @Easa!

Can't say that I care too much about most of the "bad stuff" you mentioned for it to be a deal breaker, but the power limits... it's going to be disappointing if there's no possibility to go above 80W on the GPU.

Subscribed to the tread and looking forward to seeing some real reviews and updates on this machine.

[Easa]

Thank you! Even though some of laptops shortcomings listed in my post are sad news for me, it is not a deal breaker like you said. I have finally decided to skip this generation and say goodbye to Haswell ZBook when Raptor + Ada ZBook (G10?) will be available (if the feedback on G9 will be good). As for the GPU, I am looking at A3000 level from Ada Lovelace generation (L3000?) which should be on par with current A4500, so I somehow can accept the 80W TGP, but it would be great to have dynamic distribution and go beyond 100W. 

 

I may try to pull some strings and get a sample for review. 

 

 

[1610ftw]

I shortly had one of these but with a small GPU, the RTX-A1000 and I did not do any test with the GPU for this.

 

Apart from the MSI GT77 chassis it is the only chassis this generation that I would use as a workstation even though I have to say that the whole device looks rather tiny when I held it in my hand. I am saying hand as it is so small that one does not feel the need to hold it with two hands - these are getting too small these days for a flagship work station - I want bigger screens instead of a device as tiny as this one!

 

here is what was in my unit:

12800HX

1920 x 1200 16:10 16" screen with almost identical screen height as a 17.3" 16:9 screen which is why I thought it MIGHT work out.

RTX-A1000

 

Very easy to add/populate a number of sockets that are easily accessible, namely:

4 memory slots, all on one side, easy to service and maintain

4 regular non-proprietary or overpriced storage slots, all on one side, easy to service and maintain

socketed WIFI card

the battery seems to be screwed down a bit this time which is a step back from earlier models where it could be swapped in a few seconds and without a screwdriver

 

Overall this is beautiful hardware and the 1920 x 1200 screen was nice, for me QHD is not really needed at this screen size.

The insides can be accessed easier than for any competitor and for a quick look no screw has to be touched to open the bottom cover which is just great. Everything is well laid out and as modular as it gets this generation, imo the best overall build and accessibility in the industry. Plus it has some kind of vapor chamber heat sink that is working pretty well - if HP would let it.

Also the surfaces are very good as they do not show finger prints nor are they made of some rubbery or otherwise delicate material like their competitors, this will look very good for a very long time.

I also happen to like the look and feel of the HP keyboard, good typing and noise and responsiveness feel very good to me, that was with the classic non-rgb keyboard. Still I will never get used to the half height cursor keys that I consider extremely annoying and for me that is worse than anything that for example MSI does with their key rearrangement.  I did not test the mouse functions as I use an external mouse or rather I used the trackpoint in a pinch that they have done away with - big mistake imo.

 

Which brings me to what is making the HP unsuitable for me. Neither in Windows 10 nor Windows 11 could I solve these issues:

 

no undervolting was possible

no changing of multipliers

no fans could be adjusted

there are two stock fan modes and both are unacceptably bad

 

Throttlestop and Intel XTU are working but due to the locked down processor only to adjust PL1 and PL2 and that is what I have been using. Sustained power can be up to 145 to 140 W for one run of CB R23 when all goes well and for longer times I could manage about 105 to 110W even though it could have been more as the fans would never really ramp up to full speed. As there is no full speed or high fan mode there is constant throttling as the fans run a bit faster, then when the temps get lower they run slower almost immediately and therefore the temps ramp up again and each time the CPU it throttling a bit more.

 

Even with that limitation it can sustain 19.5K CB R23 over 10 minutes and when it is still cool it can go up to 21.5K even with stock fans and cooling, when warm (not hot) it may still go up to 20.5K but not more. Single core performance is in the 1780s and as multipliers cannot be adjusted it will not go higher even though in theory one could increase the multiplier to get closer to the 12900/12950HX processors. 

 

Apart from performance left on the table that seemingly is still better than what Dell has to offer so that would not be too bad for most uses but the fans are the real problem as they can only be adjusted in two ways: Normal mode where they stop from time to time or the mode where they run constantly with minimum settings that are too high.

Both methods are annoying. The starting of the fans is really loud and happens very often. As they are super slow to respond to any added demand it can happen that the fans are not even switched on one third into a CB R23 run (or other demanding task I would guess) with some 140+ W going to the CPU! One can imagine how fast the temperatures go into the throttling zone with that behavior - always too little too late.

 

Now introduce the fans "always on" option: This is not like the Dell 7760 or formerly the Zbook 17 G7 that have rather pleasant almost silent fan noise in their lowest setting and not like the Clevo X170KM-G that has a bit of a raspy uneven but ultimately very low starting fan setting but it is an annoying noise that is far too loud and somewhat uneven and high pitched. I doubt anybody would be happy with it and from the laptops I have heard it is closest to the MSI GE76 but worse and that one already annoyed me. With fans constantly on the lowest speed is just too high and even after a long waiting time and ridiculously low temperatures the fans are apparently not meant to spin any slower nor are they meant to spin higher and with a faster reaction time when it would be needed. I think HP claims they are controlled by artificial intelligence / machine learning but the machine seems to be learning very little and the overall result is rather one of artificial stupidity not intelligence.

 

So if HP has a goal of protecting their hardware they are probably very successful but if you ask me they will not sell that many as the overall behavior is just annoying and their prices are too high, too.

 

I contacted HP support about this severely gimped system with regard to fans, locked multipliers and overclocking/undervolting and they were completely clueless about what to do or how it would be possible to change any of this.  Checking out the HP  forums it became quite clear however that there is no really good way to control either fans or undervolt or adjust multipliers at least not in the open. Customers are not supposed to change anything as HP knows what is best for them seems to be the attitude even after multiple tries to get to the bottom of this including trying out indows 10 and Windows 11 as an operating system.

 

Really too bad about this as without an active community like Dell has I would have had to spend countless hours trying to solve these issues and probably not successfully so I decided to return it.

 

EDIT: My model it turns out did not have a vapor chamber so I would expect even better performance from the vapor chamber equipped models. 

 

 

 

[ryan]

nice write up you guys, looks interesting. I tried to do something with this forum as I own a omen 16 by HP. but the amount of members owning or interested in HP is quite low

[1610ftw]

9 hours ago, ryan said:

nice write up you guys, looks interesting. I tried to do something with this forum as I own a omen 16 by HP. but the amount of members owning or interested in HP is quite low

 

You put in a lot of posts here and I am sure you attracted a bunch of HP users to this subforum 👍

But yes overall it is still not that much traffic. I also miss the HDX Dragon thread from the old forum - that one was massive and brought me to that forum 🙂

 

To be fair the Lenovo and Asus sections of the forum also aren't very big, the big sections are Sager/Clevo because of their socketed gaming offers and as expected Dell/Alienware for gaming and workstations.

 

If HP got their act together instead of locking down their workstations and pricing them higher than comparable offers by Dell the pendulum may swing to their side but they do not even have a bigger screen on offer any more which makes them less interesting even though this little workstation packs a punch with its hardware.

 

And ironically the by far biggest thread here is mostly dedicated to desktop hardware overclocking not least because of the industry essentially giving up on truly exciting designs and performance in laptops with Nvidia being the main driver of that downward spiral with their increasingly gimped top of the line mobile GPUs that leave no room for companies who want to do better.

 

 

[ryan]

I have to agree, laptops are spiraling downwards I remember owning a 6990m by amd in a clevo 8150 I could have upgraded to a 7970m which at the time was 2x the performance. we need to get people to agree and send it to nvidia maybe 100 000 plus of us could get nvidia and amd to change their minds. strength in numbers. I doubt we can do that with NBT but you never know

[DarginMahkum]

Interesting. Not many user experience or benchmarking posts. So far the Geekbench scores are not very promising. I wonder 8f they failed the thermals / tuning like the new Dell Precisions.

[win32asmguy]

1 hour ago, DarginMahkum said:

Interesting. Not many user experience or benchmarking posts. So far the Geekbench scores are not very promising. I wonder 8f they failed the thermals / tuning like the new Dell Precisions.

 

I have one for testing at the moment if you have any questions. It has the 12950HX and RTX A4500 with CPU+GPU vapor chamber. Out of the box it scores higher than the Precision 7770/7670 in CPU. It has the correct settings for IA AC/DC LoadLine values. In CBR23 it scores around 20,000 multi and 1900 single. The GPU is limited to 90W and in Timespy Graphics it scores about 9000.

 

The fan noise is more enjoyable than the Precision as the system has a "always run fans on DC power" option and the vapor chamber + fans are able to keep the thermals in check at stock limits.

[DarginMahkum]

5 hours ago, win32asmguy said:

have one for testing at the moment if you have any questions.

Yes, thank you. A specific one, if you have an eGPU: Does the eGPU stutter on Linux (or on Windows) without turning off the dGPU? If yes, is it possible to turn the dGPU off? On Linux this might be done via ACPI calls. Thank you.

[FlashWolf]

Is it possible for you to post some cb23 screenshots?

that would be great, because i own an 7670 with an 12950hx but only score about 15500 points in cb23 multi, and im interested in getting a hp fury g9.

 

thanks in advance

[DarginMahkum]

What is interesting is that, the graphics card can be replaced. I don't have much experience HP laptops, so it is new for me. I wonder if it will work without the graphics card / dGPU.

[win32asmguy]

3 hours ago, FlashWolf said:

Is it possible for you to post some cb23 screenshots?

that would be great, because i own an 7670 with an 12950hx but only score about 15500 points in cb23 multi, and im interested in getting a hp fury g9.

 

thanks in advance

 

 

That is with stock limits PL1 85W PL2 96W. Also I just noticed core isolation was enabled by default so disabling it can probably give a few more percent. Sadly the Intel ME is version 16.1 which we do not have ME Tools for yet so dumping/extracting bios setup variables is not possible for now, for unlocking things like undervolting.

 

8 hours ago, DarginMahkum said:

Yes, thank you. A specific one, if you have an eGPU: Does the eGPU stutter on Linux (or on Windows) without turning off the dGPU? If yes, is it possible to turn the dGPU off? On Linux this might be done via ACPI calls. Thank you.

 

My eGPU is in storage so I would not be able to test until the weekend. It is a Razer Core X + XFX RX5700XT. I will note that it uses PCH PCIe lanes for TB4, so there would be extra latency compared to machines with 12900H and the integrated controller.

 

1 hour ago, DarginMahkum said:

What is interesting is that, the graphics card can be replaced. I don't have much experience HP laptops, so it is new for me. I wonder if it will work without the graphics card / dGPU.

 

I do not see a part listed in the repair manual for any iGPU dummy board so it may just work with the dGPU module removed.

[DarginMahkum]

41 minutes ago, win32asmguy said:

I will note that it uses PCH PCIe lanes for TB4, so there would be extra latency compared to machines with 12900H and the integrated controller.

Ooooh, OK. Then for eGPU the HX processors are not really the best choice. I thought 12950HX has it but I just checked the specifications and integrated TB4 controller is really not there.

 

This is for 12900H:

And this is for 12950HX:

That also explains the massive differences in Jarrod's video. Even a 1260P + eGPU performs better than 12900HX + eGPU.

 

[win32asmguy]

Technically which lanes the discrete TB4 is wired to is up to the OEM to decide.

 

Did Jarrod happen to post if the Aorus 17X was using CPU PCIe lanes? It is pretty easy to determine with the TB4 device connected as PCH lanes are marked appropriately:

 

 

So you can see from the Zbook Fury it has x16 Gen5 CPU going to the dGPU, and x4 Gen4 CPU going to the primary M.2 drive, so nothing is left over for TB4 lanes so they must be connected via PCH.

 

If you wanted a good business grade eGPU host laptop I would suggest looking into the Thinkpad P1 Gen 5. It has a configuration which is 12800H but no dGPU. You could very well see HIGHER CPU performance from that model with the 12800H than the 12850HX in the stock Precision 7670!

[DarginMahkum]

...and as I was about to check the P1, I saw the Razer Blade 18 with 13900HX.

 

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Next-gen-Razer-Blade-18-specs-leak-out-along-with-impressive-Geekbench-scores-for-Intel-s-i9-13900HX-mobile-CPU.667619.0.html

 

[DarginMahkum]

6 hours ago, win32asmguy said:

Technically which lanes the discrete TB4 is wired to is up to the OEM to decide.

 

Did Jarrod happen to post if the Aorus 17X was using CPU PCIe lanes? It is pretty easy to determine with the TB4 device connected as PCH lanes are marked appropriately:

 

 

So you can see from the Zbook Fury it has x16 Gen5 CPU going to the dGPU, and x4 Gen4 CPU going to the primary M.2 drive, so nothing is left over for TB4 lanes so they must be connected via PCH.

 

If you wanted a good business grade eGPU host laptop I would suggest looking into the Thinkpad P1 Gen 5. It has a configuration which is 12800H but no dGPU. You could very well see HIGHER CPU performance from that model with the 12800H than the 12850HX in the stock Precision 7670!

OK, I have been away from the PC architectrure for too long time (although I started as direct HW programmer before the 3D cards appeared, I have been doing mostly embedded and DSP programming nearly last 20 years), so I had to go and read about the DMI etc. I thought all PCIe lanes are directly connected to the CPU. Apparently HX series has 16+4 or 8+8+4 (total of 20) lanes, whereas H series has a total of 28 lanes. It is also interesting that, in your configuration they used x16 lanes for the GPU, whereas x8 should have been enough. I wonder what the configuration is for P16 G1. I think 8+8+4 is a weird configuration. Why not 8+4+4+4?

Then I had a look at my Razer Blade 17 with 12900H. To my surprise, looks like it too has the TB connected not directly to the CPU. 

[win32asmguy]

2 hours ago, DarginMahkum said:

OK, I have been away from the PC architectrure for too long time (although I started as direct HW programmer before the 3D cards appeared, I have been doing mostly embedded and DSP programming nearly last 20 years), so I had to go and read about the DMI etc. I thought all PCIe lanes are directly connected to the CPU. Apparently HX series has 16+4 or 8+8+4 (total of 20) lanes, whereas H series has a total of 28 lanes. It is also interesting that, in your configuration they used x16 lanes for the GPU, whereas x8 should have been enough. I wonder what the configuration is for P16 G1. I think 8+8+4 is a weird configuration. Why not 8+4+4+4?

Then I had a look at my Razer Blade 17 with 12900H. To my surprise, looks like it too has the TB connected not directly to the CPU.

 

I agree that x8 Gen5 is more than enough for any dGPU option. It is the configuration used on the Precision 7770 and also MSI GE77/GT77 even providing enough bandwidth for a 175W 3080Ti.

 

As far as the Razer Blade 17 its PCH is essentially on-die so latency is probably not as much of an issue. Here is a 3dmark I ran with the Precision 7560 + Razer Core X + MSI 3080Ti 12GB, it you want to compare to your results:

 

https://www.3dmark.com/spy/29697832

 

11th Gen mobile was special because we got an 8 p-core chip with an on-die TB4 controller all in a refreshed 10nm process to greatly help thermals.

[DarginMahkum]

  

6 hours ago, win32asmguy said:

Here is a 3dmark I ran with the Precision 7560 + Razer Core X + MSI 3080Ti 12GB, it you want to compare to your results:

 

https://www.3dmark.com/spy/29697832

 

Looks like I should just stick to my RB17 for now. The problem is, I bough it as a work laptop and had to go through the Razer RMA and it was horrible. They told me that it will take two weaks and ended up like 6-7 weeks. It was a small issue and would rather not send it if I knew that it would be that long. So I am a bit nervous about it and thinking of having a problem and getting stuck like that. Anyway...

 

I guess I have a really good 12900H chip, as it hits around 90-92°C on a hot summer day with over 4 GHz. The one I made today hit 88°C with Timespy CPU test. Here are my results with my eGPU. And here are the screenshots for temperature. And here are the performance results with my wife's undervolted XPS 17 12900HK with my 3090 eGPU. Although the CPU performance is better (I think dGPU was not disabled), eGPU performace is considerably behind.

I will think about what to do on the weekend but the zbook is out of my radar for now now.

[DarginMahkum]

Deleted.

[Easa]

On 11/10/2022 at 1:33 AM, win32asmguy said:

 

I have one for testing at the moment if you have any questions.

Hello, like I asked in the PM - I am interested in direct comparison. Quality of materials / build quality, does it feel good? Are gaps even, no sharp edges etc? Keyboard feeling (do you had RGB or classic one?), touchpad responsiveness and action, hinge movement. Is the chassis stiff? Any bending or wobble?

 

How was the overall performance? Is the Vapor chamber really beneficial? Temperature and noise management, fan behavior? Anything else worth mentioning? If you could write up some summary about the machine, few sentences maybe of what you like and what you dislike?

[win32asmguy]

1 hour ago, Easa said:

Hello, like I asked in the PM - I am interested in direct comparison. Quality of materials / build quality, does it feel good? Are gaps even, no sharp edges etc? Keyboard feeling (do you had RGB or classic one?), touchpad responsiveness and action, hinge movement. Is the chassis stiff? Any bending or wobble?

 

How was the overall performance? Is the Vapor chamber really beneficial? Temperature and noise management, fan behavior? Anything else worth mentioning? If you could write up some summary about the machine, few sentences maybe of what you like and what you dislike?

 

The build quality is fine. I think the exterior is made of some metal, maybe pressed aluminum. The corners are all rounded no there is no sharp edges. No issues with gaps. I would say the lid is thinner than I prefer. No issues with bend or wobble on the chassis although I did not try bending the lid. The keyboard feels fine to type on. It is the white-backlit only option. The trackpad motion is smooth.

 

The performance is OK overall. Having the vapor chamber and correct bios settings helps. Temperature is good at the stock power limits. It seems to have a current limit in place as it always throttles with EDP_OTHER reason at 140W on the CPU.

 

The fans are fine under load, but at idle they are at 2500RPM and oscillate between 2400RPM-2600RPM every few seconds so the noise pitch is not constant. I noticed the same problem back in 2016 with a Zbook Studio G3.

 

Comparing against the other models, if you need the four storage drives it is the only 16 inch option. The Precision 7770 is less portable but can offer more performance if you are willing to tune it. If fan noise is bothering and performance is important then the MSI GT77 or CreatorPro X17 would be the best option. It runs the fans at a very low speed at idle and can also be very quiet under load.

[Aaron44126]

16 hours ago, DarginMahkum said:

Apparently HX series has 16+4 or 8+8+4 (total of 20) lanes, whereas H series has a total of 28 lanes.

 

For clarity, because that statement makes Alder Lake H seem "better" in this regard —

Alder Lake HX has 20 (16+4 or 8+8+4) off of the CPU (16 PCIe5 + 4 PCIe4), and an additional 28 off of the PCH (16 PCIe4 + 12 PCIe3).

Alder Lake H just has 16 (8+4+4) off of the CPU (PCIe4), and an additional 12 off of the PCH (PCIe3).  The PCH is technically on the CPU and not a separate motherboard component, though.

 

I'm not aware of any systems actually implementing PCIe5 on Alder Lake HX, but Intel made a deal about mentioning it during their Alder Lake HX release presentations.

[DarginMahkum]

1 hour ago, Aaron44126 said:

 

For clarity, because that statement makes Alder Lake H seem "better" in this regard —

Alder Lake HX has 20 (16+4 or 8+8+4) off of the CPU (16 PCIe5 + 4 PCIe4), and an additional 28 off of the PCH (16 PCIe4 + 12 PCIe3).

Alder Lake H just has 16 (8+4+4) off of the CPU (PCIe4), and an additional 12 off of the PCH (PCIe3).  The PCH is technically on the CPU and not a separate motherboard component, though.

 

I'm not aware of any systems actually implementing PCIe5 on Alder Lake HX, but Intel made a deal about mentioning it during their Alder Lake HX release presentations.

Well, although it is a good and powerful processor, I think the release planning for the mobile 12th gen was a complete mess. HX processor based workstations are just going public and gaining some traction and we have the 13th gen desktop processors and 13th gen HX data in the market. Also the way they released it... They may have made a deal about PCIe5 but it is just an unused nonsense right now. The 8+8+4 configuration is another mess. How many dual GPU mobile systems do we have? None. Why not a 8+4+4+4 configuration? Because it is actually a desktop processor. I hope they make a better mobile HX next time. USB4.2 / TB5 is now a must for the 2023 lineup.

[Aaron44126]

51 minutes ago, DarginMahkum said:

HX processor based workstations are just going public and gaining some traction and we have the 13th gen desktop processors and 13th gen HX data in the market.

 

Intel's been going on a pretty consistent yearly cadence with CPUs since 2018.  8th through 12th gen mobile workstation CPUs have been launching in the May/June timeframe every year.  12th gen desktop processors released a year ago, and 13th gen desktop CPUs just launched.  There's been no word on mobile 13th gen.  I'd expect H CPUs in the winter (announcements at CES), and we probably won't see 13th gen HX systems actually shipping until late spring — both about one year after the corresponding 12th gen models.