HP ZBook Fury G9/G10/G11 (16") General Thread

[DarginMahkum]

41 minutes ago, Aaron44126 said:

 

Intel's been going on a pretty consistent yearly cadence with CPUs since 2018.  8th through 12th gen mobile workstation CPUs have been launching in the May/June timeframe every year.  12th gen desktop processors released a year ago, and 13th gen desktop CPUs just launched.  There's been no word on mobile 13th gen.  I'd expect H CPUs in the winter (announcements at CES), and we probably won't see 13th gen HX systems actually shipping until late spring — both about one year after the corresponding 12th gen models.

Firstly, this is the data for Xeon 11855M:

As we see, it has a 8+4+4+4 configuration, unlike HX which is just a rebranded desktop processor.

 

For the timing. We just had a "leak" of the RB18 data and at least I don't remember seeing any data for higher end mobile processors that early. Besides, at least for the gaming laptops it was a chaos as many that thought the H series was the limit of the mobile processors, suddenly HX popped up in the highest grade gaming laptops which was never the case before. Many that wanted to invest in a best performing gaming laptop suddenly faced a buyer's remorse.

[Aaron44126]

13 minutes ago, DarginMahkum said:

For the timing. We just had a "leak" of the RB18 data and at least I don't remember seeing any data for higher end mobile processors that early.

 

The PCIe info that I dropped above, along with other information, first showed up in a leak in October 2020, about 20 months before Alder Lake HX hit the market.  (Here it is.)  Branding was not right, people were calling it "Alder Lake S-BGA" back then, and what became "Alder Lake H" is referred to in this leak as "Alder Lake P".  (Intel's marketing dept probably hadn't even decided how to name things yet.)  Just about everything in that leak is spot on.  (It does show that Alder Lake H systems support PCIe5, which Intel has never advertised nor do any systems support, but die shots show that the PCIe5 interconnect is present...  Intel likely didn't activate it because no one would actually use it anyway.)

 

It's not unprecedented at all for CPU details to leak over one year in advance.  Mobile workstation design is a roughly two-year process.  And they certainly would have fully operational 13th gen prototype systems by now.  We saw Precision 7X70 parts leaking that had build dates of October 2021 (≈9 months before release) and you could actually buy them from Taobao.

[DarginMahkum]

3 hours ago, Aaron44126 said:

 

The PCIe info that I dropped above, along with other information, first showed up in a leak in October 2020, about 20 months before Alder Lake HX hit the market.  (Here it is.)  Branding was not right, people were calling it "Alder Lake S-BGA" back then, and what became "Alder Lake H" is referred to in this leak as "Alder Lake P".  (Intel's marketing dept probably hadn't even decided how to name things yet.)  Just about everything in that leak is spot on.  (It does show that Alder Lake H systems support PCIe5, which Intel has never advertised nor do any systems support, but die shots show that the PCIe5 interconnect is present...  Intel likely didn't activate it because no one would actually use it anyway.)

 

It's not unprecedented at all for CPU details to leak over one year in advance.  Mobile workstation design is a roughly two-year process.  And they certainly would have fully operational 13th gen prototype systems by now.  We saw Precision 7X70 parts leaking that had build dates of October 2021 (≈9 months before release) and you could actually buy them from Taobao.

Last post on this topic not to hijack it further, you are right. I didn't really follow what is being released, what is leaked and when and apparently HX was known for a long time. I am also not a gamer, so I check the market mostly only when I need a new computer to be used for software development and only need something that can compile large C++ projects fast enough meaning fast processor and lots of memory, and use an eGPU for seldom gaming. My mistake was thinking that there won't be any further more mainstream high end processor coming this year, otherwise I would wait a bit more and grabbed something like a Titan or Asus 17 SE. I think many people experienced that. Nearly all major gaming brands released a laptop with an HX processor which didn't happen before. This is why I call it messy and unexpected.

[alittleteapot]

10 hours ago, win32asmguy said:

Comparing against the other models, if you need the four storage drives it is the only 16 inch option. The Precision 7770 is less portable but can offer more performance if you are willing to tune it. If fan noise is bothering and performance is important then the MSI GT77 or CreatorPro X17 would be the best option. It runs the fans at a very low speed at idle and can also be very quiet under load.

 

I've staying abreast of the Precision 7770 thread - and reading through it, I get the impression that getting the best performance out of a Precision 7770 involves black magic 🙂 (the vapor chamber seems like a very good approach for this generation of CPUs)  My HP 14 G2 laptop is still going quite strong, so I have some positive impressions from the line.  One question - how is the HP technical support for these laptops, especially compared to the Precision higher tier of support (assuming you've had experiences with both)?  My personal experience with Dell technical support for the Precision line has been very positive - I feel like I'm getting real engineers over the phone that get the job done.  Does HP have the same level support for their top-tier mobile hardware?  When you think about it, the performance and extensibility of these platforms is just a single (very large) slice of the pie, so it would be interesting to hear about anyone's experiences with HP support.

[DarginMahkum]

On 11/10/2022 at 3:47 PM, win32asmguy said:

My eGPU is in storage so I would not be able to test until the weekend. It is a Razer Core X + XFX RX5700XT. I will note that it uses PCH PCIe lanes for TB4, so there would be extra latency compared to machines with 12900H and the integrated controller.

Did you have a chance to try the eGPU?

[win32asmguy]

1 hour ago, DarginMahkum said:

Did you have a chance to try the eGPU?

 

Unfortunately I forgot to pick up the eGPU (and search for the TB3 cable which was misplaced) so I can't test it. It may not be a good indicator of stuttering presence either as the 5700XT driver does not have conflicts with the Nvidia dGPU driver.

[DarginMahkum]

On 11/10/2022 at 3:47 PM, win32asmguy said:

Sadly the Intel ME is version 16.1 which we do not have ME Tools for yet so dumping/extracting bios setup variables is not possible for now, for unlocking things like undervolting.

Looks like there is now 16.0 and 16.1 mentioned in the comments, but I don't know if it helps. I am kind of new to the topic and looks like it now works with RB17 2022 which has version 16.0.

EDIT: OK, I didn't know that it has to be the exact version.

[DarginMahkum]

Oh, well. I went with the Fury G9 with 12950HX and 4K display. Hopefully will arrive next week Tuesday / Wednesday. I am super excited. The reason I chose it over P16 is that it has 4 nvme slots and less gamer flair. At last I can try the eGPU with an HX processor myself. 😁

[PHVM_BR]

Parece que o TGP no Fury 16 G9 permanecerá muito limitado como nas gerações anteriores.

Além disso, a potência a longo prazo é baixa para aproveitar o potencial dos processadores HX. Cinebench R23 = 18680:

laptopmedia.com/processor/intel-core-i7-12800hx/

https://laptopmedia.com/review/hp-zbook-fury-16-g9/#gpu-options

Edited November 21, 2022 by PHVM_BR

[japiyapi]

19 hours ago, DarginMahkum said:

Oh, well. I went with the Fury G9 with 12950HX and 4K display. Hopefully will arrive next week Tuesday / Wednesday. I am super excited. The reason I chose it over P16 is that it has 4 nvme slots and less gamer flair. At last I can try the eGPU with an HX processor myself. 😁

did you choose rtx a1000 or a2000？

[DarginMahkum]

40 minutes ago, japiyapi said:

did you choose rtx a1000 or a2000？

It is A3000. I actually didn't choose it (@1610ftw also mentioned that vapor chamber is available only for A3000 and up).  It is a preconfigured machine and there is no 4K+12950HX machine with a GPU less than A3000. By the way, as the GPU board is replaceable I wonder if HP would release other GPU boards or if the future GPU boards for next generations will be compatible with the G9.

[japiyapi]

1 hour ago, DarginMahkum said:

It is A3000. I actually didn't choose it (@1610ftw also mentioned that vapor chamber is available only for A3000 and up).  It is a preconfigured machine and there is no 4K+12950HX machine with a GPU less than A3000. By the way, as the GPU board is replaceable I wonder if HP would release other GPU boards or if the future GPU boards for next generations will be compatible with the G9.

That’s nice! I ordered g9 with 12850hx and a1000 few weeks before, and realized they don’t have vapor chamber after received it…

 

Build quality and performance were very good but I hate its fan noise.

It makes strange clicky noise when starting up and also makes strange beat while spinning constantly.

 

Idk if it’s because of non-vapor chamber configuration but I just got rid of it and ordered p16 with vapor chamber. (12900hx and a3000) So I’m pretty interested in performance of g9 with vapor chamber.

 

Looks like your g9 and my p16 have the same configuration, so I’m very grad if we could share some feelings and reviews on them. 

[DarginMahkum]

49 minutes ago, japiyapi said:

That’s nice! I ordered g9 with 12850hx and a1000 few weeks before, and realized they don’t have vapor chamber after received it…

 

Build quality and performance were very good but I hate its fan noise.

It makes strange clicky noise when starting up and also makes strange beat while spinning constantly.

 

Idk if it’s because of non-vapor chamber configuration but I just got rid of it and ordered p16 with vapor chamber. (12900hx and a3000) So I’m pretty interested in performance of g9 with vapor chamber.

 

Looks like your g9 and my p16 have the same configuration, so I’m very grad if we could share some feelings and reviews on them. 

Sure, we should do that. I was also between the two and I strongly prefer the 2560x1600 over both 4K and FHD, but in the end 4 nvme slots won me over. I got the update that it will be delivered on Monday, so the first CB23 and Timespy results will be here on Monday evening.

[Easa]

I am just happy that this thread is showing signs of life. Thank you guys. 

[DarginMahkum]

So...mine has arrived. First thing, I disabled the core isolation, disabled the iGPU, downloaded CB23 and Timespy, installed AMD drivers for 6950 XT eGPU and ran some basic test.

Performance: Initial impressions are rather underwhelming as the first run of CB23 was around 19400 and for 10 mins it fell down to 17000 - which are considerably lower than the 12800HX version @1610ftw reporterd previously. I set the priority to above normal for CB23 but didn't change the result. I couldn't find any HP performance boost application, so I assume the Windows power settings for best performance is enough.  I didn't check the temperatures / power yet. Hopefully this evening...

eGPU: Although I was hoping for a different result, eGPU performance seems to be also lower than the 12900H. I was able to get around 15800 with 6950XT on RB17, with FG9 I am getting something around 14800. I will try the 3090 sometime this week.

Any recommendations for performance tweaking specific to this model, other than repasting with PTM7950?

EDIT: CPU package power is initially around 95W @ 91°C and sustained power drops down to 70W @ 75°C in the long run. Of course, core power is 10W below that even with the iGPU disabled. I guess because the dGPU is a beefier one, they chopped down the CPU power.

EDIT: OK, PL is not locked and I was able to push the limit higher. We need undervolting, though...

[win32asmguy]

22 minutes ago, DarginMahkum said:

So...mine has arrived. First thing, I disabled the core isolation, disabled the iGPU, downloaded CB23 and Timespy, installed AMD drivers for 6950 XT eGPU and ran some basic test.

Performance: Initial impressions are rather underwhelming as the first run of CB23 was around 19400 and for 10 mins it fell down to 17000 - which are considerably lower than the 12800HX version @1610ftw reporterd previously. I set the priority to above normal for CB23 but didn't change the result. I couldn't find any HP performance boost application, so I assume the Windows power settings for best performance is enough.  I didn't check the temperatures / power yet. Hopefully this evening...

eGPU: Although I was hoping for a different result, eGPU performance seems to be also lower than the 12900H. I was able to get around 15800 with 6950XT on RB17, with FG9 I am getting something around 14800. I will try the 3090 sometime this week.

Any recommendations for performance tweaking specific to this model, other than repasting with PTM7950?

EDIT: CPU package power is initially around 95W @ 91°C and sustained power drops down to 70W @ 75°C in the long run. Of course, core power is 10W below that even with the iGPU disabled. I guess because the dGPU is a beefier one, they chopped down the CPU power.

 

On mine I found it was getting about the same CPU performance without using Throttlestop to boost PL1/PL2. The CPU also has tight tolerances for thermals so any core with poor contact can drag all the other core clockspeed down. PTM7950 sounds like a great idea if you have it just to bring it as close to the 140W limit as possible.

 

I am curious if the fans in your system have any issue with pulsing around the 2500rpm mark. The pitch change in the noise was enough to irritate me.

 

By chance can your run the A3000 through Timespy as well? Curious how it compares to the 90W A4500.

[DarginMahkum]

17 minutes ago, win32asmguy said:

By chance can your run the A3000 through Timespy as well? Curious how it compares to the 90W A4500.

Here you go: Gfx: 7578 CPU: 14387

[DarginMahkum]

24 minutes ago, win32asmguy said:

I am curious if the fans in your system have any issue with pulsing around the 2500rpm mark. The pitch change in the noise was enough to irritate me.

So far all good. But I will keep an eye on them.

[DarginMahkum]

Not just this or a specific laptop but I highly recommend installing a pair of these to improve both the thermals and the fan noise for any laptop.
 

https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B08G8K32TR/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

 

[DarginMahkum]

2 hours ago, win32asmguy said:

 

On mine I found it was getting about the same CPU performance without using Throttlestop to boost PL1/PL2. The CPU also has tight tolerances for thermals so any core with poor contact can drag all the other core clockspeed down. PTM7950 sounds like a great idea if you have it just to bring it as close to the 140W limit as possible.

 

I am curious if the fans in your system have any issue with pulsing around the 2500rpm mark. The pitch change in the noise was enough to irritate me.

 

By chance can your run the A3000 through Timespy as well? Curious how it compares to the 90W A4500.

By the way, the BIOS image is available for download on the HP website here and can be extracted via UniExtract and can be loaded with UEFITool, but I could not find anything to do with overclocking lock etc. Could it be that it is named differently?

[1610ftw]

1 hour ago, DarginMahkum said:

Not just this or a specific laptop but I highly recommend installing a pair of these to improve both the thermals and the fan noise for any laptop.
 

https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B08G8K32TR/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

 

 

Or this one, I always have one of these in my Everki Titan together with an external QHD display:

 

[1610ftw]

4 hours ago, DarginMahkum said:

So...mine has arrived. First thing, I disabled the core isolation, disabled the iGPU, downloaded CB23 and Timespy, installed AMD drivers for 6950 XT eGPU and ran some basic test.

Performance: Initial impressions are rather underwhelming as the first run of CB23 was around 19400 and for 10 mins it fell down to 17000 - which are considerably lower than the 12800HX version @1610ftw reporterd previously. I set the priority to above normal for CB23 but didn't change the result. I couldn't find any HP performance boost application, so I assume the Windows power settings for best performance is enough.  I didn't check the temperatures / power yet. Hopefully this evening...

eGPU: Although I was hoping for a different result, eGPU performance seems to be also lower than the 12900H. I was able to get around 15800 with 6950XT on RB17, with FG9 I am getting something around 14800. I will try the 3090 sometime this week.

Any recommendations for performance tweaking specific to this model, other than repasting with PTM7950?

EDIT: CPU package power is initially around 95W @ 91°C and sustained power drops down to 70W @ 75°C in the long run. Of course, core power is 10W below that even with the iGPU disabled. I guess because the dGPU is a beefier one, they chopped down the CPU power.

EDIT: OK, PL is not locked and I was able to push the limit higher. We need undervolting, though...

 

Here is my stats when I got 19.4K:

 

high performance mode

bios setting fans always on

power limit set to 115/115W and boost duration to something very long

prochot 99°C

 

For a single run and with a cool laptop I set the PL1/PL2 limit to 225W in Throttlestop and my power consumption reached up to 146W in the highest run of 21.2K

 

With your  higher binned chip you should be able to crack 22K for a single run and 20K for a 10 minute run.

 

Check that first before doing any repasting.

 

Mine out of the box got about 18K for a single run by the way so you already beat that with yours.

 

As for the eGPU you will probably need to go the m2 PCIe route for truly impressive results, that should give you about 18 to 19K with the 3090.

Personally I do not game at all but only getting 14.8K TimeSpy with the 6950XT would annoy me so I can understand your frustration 😄

 

[DarginMahkum]

1 hour ago, 1610ftw said:

As for the eGPU you will probably need to go the m2 PCIe route for truly impressive results, that should give you about 18 to 19K with the 3090.

Personally I do not game at all but only getting 14.8K TimeSpy with the 6950XT would annoy me so I can understand your frustration 😄

Looks like is the way to go. 🙂

[DarginMahkum]

1 hour ago, 1610ftw said:

 

Here is my stats when I got 19.4K:

 

high performance mode

bios setting fans always on

power limit set to 115/115W and boost duration to something very long

prochot 99°C

 

For a single run and with a cool laptop I set the PL1/PL2 limit to 225W in Throttlestop and my power consumption reached up to 146W in the highest run of 21.2K

 

With your  higher binned chip you should be able to crack 22K for a single run and 20K for a 10 minute run.

 

Check that first before doing any repasting.

 

Mine out of the box got about 18K for a single run by the way so you already beat that with yours.

 

As for the eGPU you will probably need to go the m2 PCIe route for truly impressive results, that should give you about 18 to 19K with the 3090.

Personally I do not game at all but only getting 14.8K TimeSpy with the 6950XT would annoy me so I can understand your frustration 😄

 

Pushing the power to 110/95 I was able to see 20500 but the CPU stays around 98 degrees. I think it definitely needs undervolting and possibly PTM7950. I don't want to repaste if I am not sure that it is staying.

 

There's a German language review of P16 on YT and apparently P16 does 22900 out of the box with the same CPU. Lenovo uses PTM7950 so that might be one factor.

 

I tried something...hmmm...silly. I have seen that the CpuSetup contents of Razer Blade looks similar, so I "took my chance" and modified the same location and interestingly it went back to 1 after exiting. Maybe there's a mechanism that checks the important locations and reverts them back?

[1610ftw]

16 minutes ago, DarginMahkum said:

Pushing the power to 110/95 I was able to see 20500 but the CPU stays around 98 degrees. I think it definitely needs undervolting and possibly PTM7950. I don't want to repaste if I am not sure that it is staying.

 

There's a German language review of P16 on YT and apparently P16 does 22900 out of the box with the same CPU. Lenovo uses PTM7950 so that might be one factor.

 

I tried something...hmmm...silly. I have seen that the CpuSetup contents of Razer Blade looks similar, so I "took my chance" and modified the same location and interestingly it went back to 1 after exiting. Maybe there's a mechanism that checks the important locations and reverts them back?

 

The HP will always reach 98 to 100 with that kind of power limit and everything else stock as the fans do not run at max speed all the time when benching. Not good for top scores but may not be an issue otherwise. I would also guess that at 115/150 and 115/115 your scores would get even higher, both single and multiple runs.

Also I think that @MyPC8MyBrainmentioned that somebody got a much higher ca 26K score on the 16 G9 so you may want to look for that score and check how he did it.

 

I agree that If you are not sure if you want to keep it better to not use PTM7950.  Personally I also did not like that I could not do any undervolting and adjust fans to my liking but I think that is the same with Lenovo.