HP ZBook Fury G9/G10/G11 (16") General Thread

[BleachCake]

Things are looking better,went through the pipeline with most of the troublemakers.Far from perfect,drops now and then but better nonetheless.

It has nothing to do with the processor(disabled and then enabled again the SpeedStep and C1E just to make sure),got the most reliable driver from the NVidia site,tweaked different settings.

It is not an issue rendering out the songs in 24bit 48000Hz,what is an issue is that i want to render it out through my SSL bus compressor(analog compressor to glue the tracks).Once i play the whole song and printing it out of the compressor there is always 1-2 drops in 4 minutes).I can live with that while doing the mixing but definitely in search of improving the drivers mess to a point where it works relatively flawless.

Yeah,set the card in "prefer maximum performance"mode.

After the changes the external EIZO moitor,bravelly hanging out at 18017 hours of usage time as of now,doesn't seen to cause as much damage according to Latency Mon.

So yeah,not perfect but i am taking it easy now,unwilling to spend another night in the Windows sound maze of utter confusion.

Take Care All





 

[BleachCake]

I should have mentioned my overall impression with the G10 Fury aside of my struggle with the sound drivers stuff.

Having it for more than a month,up until now i haven't noticed CPU(i9) throttling.I have been rendering out 3D scenes as well as pretty heavy music stuff with multiple plugin instances-no problemo with those.

Temperature wise it has reached 90 degrees a few times but performance didn't seem to have been affected.Fans could get a bit louder on full load while rendering but i have never been bothered by those in general.I am using it in High Performance Mode all the time and with normal load it never reaches more than 68 degrees with multiple tabs and a couple of programs open(but that is to be expected from such machine).

The video card ATA3500 seems to be holding its ground.It is a middle class card so i am not expecting miracles,but for normal 3d scenes and editing it does its job pretty well.

The keyboard is a joy to use-definitely the best one i have ever tried.The pad is also of high quality and very responsive.
I need to point out that most of the time i use it with an external monitor and external mouse and keyboard and i am also not that pretentious when it comes to keyboards.

It came with a full array of Wolf Security features.At first i thought it might just be more bloatware but left it there out of sheer curiosity.I suppose it does what it does but haven't seen intrusion with my everyday use so far.

The display(Dream Color 4K),is pretty accurate and of high quality.I have been using some of the best in the market for more than 15 years and this one is really there at the top.The matte finish is a plus for me.

I suppose these things could be said for most high end mobile workstations cause they share essentially the same components.

Was a devoted DELL Precision user but got this one with decent discount and decided to switch.

If i could sort out the sound stuff,i be even happier  🙂

Take care all

[TheGentleKlingon]

Hi all,

 

So as per my earlier post I got the Fury 16 G9 with i7-12800hx and A2000. I've been using it daily for 2 months now and I'm quite happy with its performance.

 

Recently however I noticed something strange. The cpu spikes up to 96-100C and throttles while rendering 3D scenes. This was definitely not happening before. When I first got it, temps used to stay below 89C, no throttling.

 

Anyone have similar issues?

[BleachCake]

Hi GK,

rendered a few shots in Nuke during the weekend while monitoring the temperature.CPU spiked around 90-92C.

I do not think it is extremely uncommon to have spikes around the 90C while rendering full CG or shot scenes.

How many frames did you render?Do you use other programs while rendering?Usually when i render longer shots(400-500)frames,it does go up to 90 something but i have never hit the 100C mark.

It's a good idea to monitor the temp next few times while rendering to see if that occurs frequently.I wouldn't worry if it spikes around 90C,but having it around 100C on regular basis might indicate issues.

Don't get paranoid,monitor and see how it goes next few times you render 🙂

[TheGentleKlingon]

Hi BC,

 

Thanks for checking with your system, I appreciate that. Which CPU and GPU do you have?

 

For consistency and comparability, I ran Cinebench R23 multi core and got a consistent 99-100C across the 8 p-cores. Temps stayed high for the full 50 seconds or so that it ran, then went back down to the 32-36C range at idle.

 

To troubleshoot, I reset BIOS and used HP Sure Recover to reset Windows and drivers to factory defaults. This had no effect, so software is ruled out, except possibly the firmware.

 

Interestingly, the GPU performance has remained as it was when I first started using it 2 months ago. Also, HP hardware diagnostics CPU test gives a pass and I'm not experiencing crashes or hangs.

 

Looks like I've got a real mystery on my hands here.

 

(Someone on a different forum suggested the thermal paste could be re-applied to rule out another possible cause but that's really time consuming and I would rather keep it as a last resort.)

[BleachCake]

Hi GK,

CPU i9 13950HX and ATA 3500.

I am using it in High Performance Mode and while idle,CPU is 57-60C.

Once i noticed this i went through some other forums and threads cause i was curious if the i9 runs hotter by design.
Mentioning this cause in more than one occasion with the latest i7 and i9 processors some users had high temp right of the bat-playing video games reaching 100C,thermal shutdowns etc.

Few guys with HP's with the 13th gen Intel processors reported that after changing the thermal paste the CPU temp dropped like 10-15C.This i find annoying cause that's basically a brand new machine and i have to change the thermal paste??Plus if doing so i don't know if that might void the warranty.

Now my idle temps are in the upper normal limits,goes lower once in Balanced Mode.Thinking maybe it is not a bad idea to extend the warranty just for a peace of mind.

 

[1610ftw]

On 10/24/2023 at 9:41 AM, TheGentleKlingon said:

Hi BC,

 

Thanks for checking with your system, I appreciate that. Which CPU and GPU do you have?

 

For consistency and comparability, I ran Cinebench R23 multi core and got a consistent 99-100C across the 8 p-cores. Temps stayed high for the full 50 seconds or so that it ran, then went back down to the 32-36C range at idle.

 

To troubleshoot, I reset BIOS and used HP Sure Recover to reset Windows and drivers to factory defaults. This had no effect, so software is ruled out, except possibly the firmware.

 

Interestingly, the GPU performance has remained as it was when I first started using it 2 months ago. Also, HP hardware diagnostics CPU test gives a pass and I'm not experiencing crashes or hangs.

 

Looks like I've got a real mystery on my hands here.

 

(Someone on a different forum suggested the thermal paste could be re-applied to rule out another possible cause but that's really time consuming and I would rather keep it as a last resort.)

 

 

Switch to PTM7950 - extremely easy to apply and very durable. You can look it up on youtube where there is a bunch of videos about applying it. You want to check with HP but I strongly doubt they would object to a repaste given the deterioration in temps that you are seeing.

[TheGentleKlingon]

Hi BC,

 

Okay so with that GPU yours has a vapor chamber cooler while mine has heat pipes. Vapor chamber is supposed to provide better cooling, for what it's worth. I keep mine on the "HP Optimized" power setting, but changing to the default "Balanced" doesn't seem to make any difference.

 

Anyway, yeah, it seems I might have to try changing the thermal paste. I don't think it voids the warranty but I'll do some checking first. This model comes with a 3-year warranty, do you mean to say you would consider extending that further?

[TheGentleKlingon]

3 minutes ago, 1610ftw said:

 

 

Switch to PTM7950 - extremely easy to apply and very durable. You can look it up on youtube where there is a bunch of videos about applying it. You want to check with HP but I strongly doubt they would object to a repaste given the deterioration in temps that you are seeing.

 

This seems to be the way to go. Yeah I don't think they would object to a re-paste, especially if I'm doing it myself and saving them the time and money eh? It's just disappointing to have to do this with a brand new unit, but it looks like this is happening more and more often these days.

[BleachCake]

It is indeed disappointing to have to change the thermal paste to a brand new machine.I think of changing mine s well since it won't void the warranty.60C in idle seems a bit much to me and i am curious in the new paste will change the temperature.

Yes,i am considering extending the warranty beyond the 3 years already provided.

[1610ftw]

23 hours ago, TheGentleKlingon said:

 

This seems to be the way to go. Yeah I don't think they would object to a re-paste, especially if I'm doing it myself and saving them the time and money eh? It's just disappointing to have to do this with a brand new unit, but it looks like this is happening more and more often these days.

 

I do not think that thermal paste application has gone down it is just that the application has to be better these days as the new Intel CPUs consume a lot more power. In any case I had a Zbook from 2018 that also had a really bad TIM application with temps much too high and all over the place and that was with a much lower TDP.

[TheGentleKlingon]

I bit the bullet and repasted with Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut (just had it on hand, not ignoring the PTM7950 suggestion). While I'm happy that my 3 hours of effort has paid off, I'm feeling rather disappointed that a brand new machine needed this to be done in order to function as it should.

 

Idle temps are in the mid-30s. Under load (Cinebench R23 multi core) it is hitting a maximum of 81C with a score of 17591.

 

Incredible. 🙃

[BleachCake]

Damn,now that's a serious difference,man.

I don't get it either,high end machines and all that and applying cheap thermal paste??

[TheGentleKlingon]

Honestly I don't think it's the quality or type of paste as much as it is the way it was applied. It was such a messy job, with excess paste oozing out on all sides. Wish I had taken photos of before and after. Anyway, I'm overall very happy with this PC. Not a fan of having to repaste but it was well worth it.

[GuitarG]

Until now I failed to see power button on G9 and G10 - it is on keyboard.
I though it's more less than 500$ laptop thing, to cheap out on extra work and costs, but on workstation it is outrage (dell precision in same boat). Little liquid spill and can't power laptop, in worst case bigger IC dies (kbc, chipset or whatever 3.3v keyboard button they connected directly to).

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but that made me not to buy any laptop as that Fury G9/G10 was my last hope to buy fast & durable mobile rig in future.

[Easa]

Hello,

 

Around this time last year I have decided to replace my trusty old HP ZBook 15 G1. I went lighter and smaller with the Firefly 14 G10A, equipped with AMD 7840HS CPU. Now, the machine was fine when it worked, but it had constant small bugs and issues (WHEA errors, DPC latencies, enormous POST times, booting to black screen with only mouse visible, random freezes or slowdowns..). The MediaTek bluetooth adapter was pure evil. So, a year later, I have sold it and opted for basically the same machine in newer version and with Intel CPU - Firefly 14 G11, Core Ultra and RTX A500. This was last week.

 

With this machine, it was all the same, different, but same. No WHEA errors, this time it was about 4 bluescreens in a week - driver power state failures. POST times even longer. Blinking screen when connected to a dock. Also iGPU driver crashes. Returned the thing within the return window. Not to mention the immense heat around the QWERTY area when under load. Very unpleasant to touch.

 

Now, I am sure I want to go back to the trusty, bulletproof workstation machine with a proper cooling solution, that I once had, which lasted me for almost a decade. It needs to have a serious NBD warranty in case of hardware failure - this rules out almost every brand except for Dell, HP and Lenovo.

 

Dell is a No-Go for me, due to no high-refresh panel on their 16" model and very poor QC lately. Was reluctant to go Lenovo for a long time, but the ThinkPad P16 Gen2 sort of speaks to me. Perfect screen for my needs - 2560x1600 @ 165Hz. High TDP graphics @ 115W. Superior keyboard to about everything out there.

 

My specs would be something around i7-14700HX / 13850HX, 64GB RAM, ADA 3500 and 1TB drive. This brings me to around 3800€ w/o VAT. With ADA 4000, thats about 4200€. Three year warranty on this.

 

Problem is, at about 4500€, I have the opportunity to buy full-spec HP G11 Fury with ADA5000 and 14900HX, 128GB RAM, 2TB drive, 4K DreamColor screen and 4 year warranty. HP is way more serviceable and upgradeable with option to do 4x M.2 drives. However, there is that limited GPU TDP @ 90W, and their warranty coverage and support response is probably the worst from these brands. The HP keyboard is worse compared to Lenovo. No trackpoint. 4K screen is worse for my needs than the sweet spot of 2560x1600, even if I liked the Dreamcolor very much when i had the G9 for evaluation

 

What should I do? My top priorities are reliability, stability and longevity. The P16 is way less repairable at the board level, but if the design is good, it should not need repairs.

 

I have the opportunity to purchase 13700HX / ADA2000 P16 and return it within 14 days, to evaluate, but I am not sure of this. I just hate purchasing stuff and then returning it, I dont want to cause damage to the store by giving them back an unpacked & used product. 

[Easa]

Well this escalated quickly. Ended up ordering a full-spec G11 along with mid-spec P16 G2 (13700HX / ADA 2000). Should be here next week. Will evaluate both against each other & then I will do a CTO. If anybody wants to compare specific areas / behaviours / results, let me know in this thread. 

[fp23]

The comparison should be interesting; thanks for your proposal. I am looking forward to it!

[Easa]

Hey!
 

Partly copied from my post on Reddit. I ended up ordering both, then I have done a 2 week evaluation. TL;DR, the P16G2 is a much better and refined workstation laptop than the Fury is. The reasons:

• Leagues lower and stable DPC latencies. I dont know what the guys at the HP are doing, but their drivers are terrible. Simply terrible. The whole machine has power, the numbers in benchmark are there, but the feeling is not. It simply was not so snappy as the Lenovo. I have tried both factory OS and a clear installation. No difference.
   
• Better than average results in benchmarks. For example CPU/GPU in Passmark. HP was always producing a tip below average or average results, Lenovo was always clearly above average, around 5-10%. For the GPU, the difference was even higher. I suspect the Lenovo equipped with A4000 would easily outperform the A5000 in HP under heavy load. 
   
• Better fan management. With the right profile, Lenovo is dead silent to pleasantly quiet during browsing and lighter loads, and still quieter than HP under full load. The HP fans just blow with erratic spinning up and down, air pushed against the hinge. The SmartSense (or similar named) profile on HP Helps, but its not much of a difference. On the Lenovo, you can choose between maximum power, balanced and maximum efficiency. And the last one is the best. CPU results in benchmark go down but the temps drop 20-30° instantly, the fan noise completely disappears, and the overall power is still there.  
   
• With the Lenovo, you can actually feel how the laptop sucks the air from underneath and moves it through the rear vents, its a massive amount. On the HP, half of air goes under the hinge, half above it , pushing against the display. Bad for the long term usage. Not even speaking about the fact that when docked, the HP venting area is obstructed massively, trapping the air underneath the screen. 
   
• Metal around the keyboard dissipates the heat on the HP. VERY uncomfortable during longer sessions under full power, to the point of burning your fingers while holding keys longer. 
   
• Battery life. The HP has a bugged Optimus (tried 5 different drivers and 2x OS reinstall, various results) that powers the GPU for a fraction of second to like 2 seconds. Does this 4 - 10 times a minute. The result is that the battery life sucks. Sometimes you get 70 minutes, sometimes you get 180 minutes. On the Lenovo, it was common to get 150 to 280 minutes without significant power saving measures. 
   
• More power for the GPU resulting in more stable GPU performance. Noticeable in games during intensive scenes. Moreover, Lenovo features a MUX Switch, HP does not. What were they thinking. 
   
• Keyboard is simply on another level. Noticeably larger keys with pleasant travel and feedback, visible key markings, actually usable arrow keys, backlight not bleeding through edges. Trackpoint, which may or may not be a plus, for me it certainly is. Oh, and it is a fully contained replaceable unit, no other stuff to disassemble or replace. 
   
• Actually good hinge design on the Lenovo. Protruding above the main body, the upper screen edge is higher, resulting in more natural posture behind the laptop. I was shocked how much of a difference can those few centimeters make. Also this allows the rear to be fully utilized with ventilation ports and connectors. At least for me, this is the only rational way to do it on a workstation class laptop. 
   
• This deserves a paragraph of its own. Physical power button that is not part of the keyboard and has a visible LED indicator. Funny how things that we took for granted in the past are now the selling points. 
   
• Last but not least, the quality. Both screen lids can be twisted and bent, but it requires significantly higher force and dedication to do it on the P16. Same thing for the body. Believe it or not, the P16 with its plastic or composite body (i do not know the exact material they use) feels more sturdy and durable than the aluminium sheet body of the HP. You really have to hold them both in your hands to appreciate this. For a $6000 laptop, the fit and finish of the HP was below average. I would expect MacBook level of detail for such sum. You get sharp uneven edges, small imperfections underneath the paintjob, quite large gaps. I understand that this may not be important to most of the potential buyers, but for this sum? Its a shame. 

 

Now, keep in mind that I have started this whole thread based on my plan to retire the ZBook 15 G1 after 9 years of usage and move on to the ZBook Fury G9. Needless to say, did not happen. Ended up with Firefly 14 G10A and G11, both of them resulting in a disappointment and a decision to return to full sized mobile workstations. I was a huge HP fan and it makes me sad that I cannot continue using their products because of their bad designs. Of course, Lenovo also has its flaws, namely:
 

1. Absence of RJ45 Ethernet on such large and expensive machine is unacceptable. For this price, the thing should have a 10Gbit, or at the very least a 2.5Gbit port. 
    
2. The small area above the SmartCard reader is flimsy and can be bent. Palmrest is very thin there. It is only a small area near the edge and likely will not cause any issues, but it should have been reinforced more. 
    
3. It has only 2 M.2 internal connectors. Not a problem for me, but such a device should have at least 3 if not 4 like the HP does. 
    
4. The WLAN module is a BGA unit, not user replaceable. It is replaceable on the HP .
    
5. CAMM RAM with its higher frequency would be the better option, at least in my opinion. 
    
6. Two USB-A ports on a workstation device is a nuisance. But such is the state of the laptop market right now. 

 

Overall, the Lenovo is not a perfect laptop, but it is a much better device than the HP is. In the end, I chose to return both due to the current apocalypse regarding Intel CPUs, but if it will be resolved, I am ordering the Lenovo. If it wont, then I will have to wait for the Arrow Lake HX + Blackwell combo and hope that it will be just a facelift, not a new model with potential issues. 

 

Currently typing this on a borrowed, refurbished HP Elitebook 840 G5 with 8250U, my fingers hurt, my eyes bleed and my patience is at its limits. 

[azulazul]

Hey @Easa, thanks for sharing. Great to read the fan noise details. Last week I weighed HP Fury G11, P16G2 and P1G6 and went for the G6 mainly for fan noise reasons.

 

Idk if you mind, but 2 questions:

1) How much would you estimate does the difference in config cause the different fan behaviour?

 

E.g. would you expect the HP to be quiet with i7, non-4k display, etc. And/or in return, iyo, would the Lenovo still be silent under "low" load with i9, 4k display, etc.?

2) How much, iyo, does a large chassis reduce the noise, all else equal?

 

Idk if you have a comparison, but the Lenovo X1EG2s (silent) and P1G6s (not silent) also get cp. quiet under low load, both in "best efficiency" and "balanced" mode. I'd be interested in how much the P16 adds onto that by having the large(r)chassis.

 

I went with the medium config (i7, 2.56k display) to guarantee silence, but I would have preferred to max it out. I'd like to know whether I could buy the P16 in highest config and still expect "silence", be it in the most-efficient mode (and maybe reduce dGPU usage).

 

Atb

(cezuan2 from reddit)

[win32asmguy]

On 7/26/2024 at 11:11 PM, azulazul said:

Idk if you have a comparison, but the Lenovo X1EG2s (silent) and P1G6s (not silent) also get cp. quiet under low load, both in "best efficiency" and "balanced" mode. I'd be interested in how much the P16 adds onto that by having the large(r)chassis.

 

I went with the medium config (i7, 2.56k display) to guarantee silence, but I would have preferred to max it out. I'd like to know whether I could buy the P16 in highest config and still expect "silence", be it in the most-efficient mode (and maybe reduce dGPU usage).

 

I have a P16 G2 configured with 13950HX and 4090 mobile. It is pretty quiet running in the default balanced mode under load where the fans max out at 45dB and more importantly have no high pitched whine to them or fan duty pulsing. It can also benefit from replacing the paste on the CPU and GPU with PTM7950.

 

I will also note that with the P16 G2 if you want a heatsink with a CPU side vapor chamber you have to choose atleast an Ada3500 GPU.

[azulazul]

Thank you, that is very helpful. I am still trying to understand which laptop in an i7, 2.56k display configuration will get me silence during low (maybe low-to-medium) daily operations and there is not much detail out there.

[win32asmguy]

Another one you might look into is a P16v Gen 1. It is similar to the P16 but has an AMD 7840HS chip which in theory should be more energy efficient / silent than an Intel HX chip especially if you select a model without a dGPU and are willing to repaste with PTM7950.

[azulazul]

Thank you. I had seen that model as the notebookcheck fan tests also had it as more silent than the P16 G2 and quite silent overall. I will check it out.

As a btw I have to say that by now I have become a bit disillusioned to go by formal power needs (or the available fan tests) as nothing seems to match my experience. Rather, the fan behaviour between the models seems to be quite similar (even when tested to be different) and overall bad for my taste. Especially that the fans are always audible in AC even during light work. (I want a silent computer if I do nothing or almost nothing.)

 

Following the (notebookcheck) fan tests as well as general reception, I expected the P1G6 to be sufficiently silent, as it is tested to be as silent as my X1G2 (~P1G2), but in contrast that model is in "always audible fan mode during AC", even when used extremely lightly, and the X1G2 is 100% silent during office tasks at 55-59 Celsius CPU. The avg. fan noise level during load is also far less. Going by formal power needs, the P1G7 (no bios updates yet) should potentially be more silent than both models as its CPU is much less demanding (28w vs 45w, 45w) and the overall set of available GPUs are also weaker (4000, 5000 ada are available for G6 not G7 & the general TGP level for the G6-GPUs is 80w vs 60w in G7). Idk what else to look at to expect more silent fans a even the X1G2 from 5y ago offered i9, 4k Oled configs with similar processing power to current CPUs in the same chassis with much more silent fans. The P1G7 at extremes reaches 2-3x the perceived noise level the X1G2 can maximally reach & Idk why or how to expect that.* (Maybe it's adaption to consumer behavior & they just use stronger fans and drivers atm).
 

Given I had to return the P1G6 I just bought due to display flickering, I ordered a P16G2 and P1G7 in a different config to the one I tried  already (mainly hoping for a driver or bios issue in the tried one though) and I will update my expectations after checking these out. I just now learned about the different ways of potentially reducing fan noise in bios (didn't work for the P1G6 low, audible noise level) as well as using fan control, but I have not been able to evaluate them fully yet as some do not seem to work while others have other downsides. Beside being quite the rabbit holes, too.

In any case, thanks again. I greatly appreciate every detail on the fan noise of these and similar models.

PS I came by this forum as the HP Fury G11 is tested to be quite silent, too, but I read of many people having issues with the fans (many having i9, 4k display). And that comes besides HP forcing one to either go high (i9, 4k) or low spec (i7, 1.9k display). If it offered a medium spec, I'd have ordered it already, but now I will do only after the 3 Lenovo models fails.

*I just now saw that the X1G2 only had 1 GPU option with 35w power draw (vs. current ones >100-200w). That might explain the difference in current fan designs vs. then. It's a pity given I pretty much disable the dGPU.

[Easa]

On 7/27/2024 at 7:11 AM, azulazul said:

Hey @Easa, thanks for sharing. Great to read the fan noise details. Last week I weighed HP Fury G11, P16G2 and P1G6 and went for the G6 mainly for fan noise reasons.

 

Idk if you mind, but 2 questions:

1) How much would you estimate does the difference in config cause the different fan behaviour?

 

E.g. would you expect the HP to be quiet with i7, non-4k display, etc. And/or in return, iyo, would the Lenovo still be silent under "low" load with i9, 4k display, etc.?

2) How much, iyo, does a large chassis reduce the noise, all else equal?

 

Idk if you have a comparison, but the Lenovo X1EG2s (silent) and P1G6s (not silent) also get cp. quiet under low load, both in "best efficiency" and "balanced" mode. I'd be interested in how much the P16 adds onto that by having the large(r)chassis.

 

I went with the medium config (i7, 2.56k display) to guarantee silence, but I would have preferred to max it out. I'd like to know whether I could buy the P16 in highest config and still expect "silence", be it in the most-efficient mode (and maybe reduce dGPU usage).

 

Atb

(cezuan2 from reddit)

 

I would say that it will differ on two things, the actual configuration and the silicon lottery of the particular chip. Because it is a known fact that one i7 may operate at (for example) 1.2V, the other on 1.35V, achieving the same results with two digit difference in thermals. Numbers are wrong but you get the idea. But overall, I found the fan profiles and the power managament more potent and impactful on the Lenovo. 

 

Large chassis will have larger fans that move a lot more air, multiplied by the dissipation of the area of the heatsinks, so definitely better cooling. On the other hand, this is heavily influenced by the specific choice of fans, some may have unpleasant frequencies in their acoustic signature. There is a possibility that there are more fan suppliers for these laptops, just like you have 2 or 3 for Dell. 

 

I had some experience with the older P1 / X1E laptops (8750H/9750H era) and I would not touch that thing with a pole. YMMV.