Alienware 18” Returns

[ssj92]

Sounds like 13900HX 24-Core BGA and RTX 4080Ti or 4090 (whatever they call it) 

 

doubt it’ll be a lga system but still exciting. I love the 18.4” screens and I hope it’s at least that size. 
 

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Alienware-s-18-inch-gaming-laptops-to-return-in-2023.672879.0.html

[razor0601]

That would be great to see another 18“ Alienware.

[Bullit]

I would consider this, but they need to put it also cheaper with lesser CPU's GPU's.

I would even consider it as another laptop for office with just iGPU . I have a 15.6 and i always end up in the powerful Lenovo 17.3 because the screen is more comfortable to work with.

[jaybee83]

so hard to excited about an all BGA machine, no matter the specs...all seems to temporary and final at the same time 😅

[1610ftw]

2 hours ago, jaybee83 said:

so hard to excited about an all BGA machine, no matter the specs...all seems to temporary and final at the same time 😅

At least they do not get up your hopes like Clevo and Alienware before only to then offer no upgrades whatsoever.

 

I got the X170KM-G here and I knew there would not be any CPU upgrades but it is getting really disappointing when there are also no GPU upgrades.

 

But then as an owner of the last socketed Clevo you know what I am talking about...

[ssj92]

Let's be honest here. We've been screwed by all the manufacturers throughout the years. 

 

Look at Alienware with their Area-51m R1. The R2 gpus could have been compatible but they def purposely built it not to be compatible. 

 

Clevo...imagine buying a X170SM-G then when the 11 series came out, having to buy a new X170KM despite they being almost identical (besides chipset). 

 

Next year I would be surprised if we get anything with removable components. Maybe a Clevo with LGA socket only but I doubt we will get MXM. 

 

The time is finally here where everything will basically be BGA. 

 

I am looking into getting a X170SM/KM just to own the last clevo with lga/mxm. 

 

Just like I own the last AWs with sockets (AW18, M18xR1/R2, Area-51m). 

 

I haven't been a fan of the Alienwares after AW14/17/18 gen but the X14 was kinda nice. I expect this 18" to take the X series design. They need a Mini LED or OLED display for this and a damn subwoofer for audio again. 

[1610ftw]

10 hours ago, ssj92 said:

Let's be honest here. We've been screwed by all the manufacturers throughout the years. 

 

Look at Alienware with their Area-51m R1. The R2 gpus could have been compatible but they def purposely built it not to be compatible. 

 

Clevo...imagine buying a X170SM-G then when the 11 series came out, having to buy a new X170KM despite they being almost identical (besides chipset). 

 

Next year I would be surprised if we get anything with removable components. Maybe a Clevo with LGA socket only but I doubt we will get MXM. 

 

The time is finally here where everything will basically be BGA. 

 

I am looking into getting a X170SM/KM just to own the last clevo with lga/mxm. 

 

Just like I own the last AWs with sockets (AW18, M18xR1/R2, Area-51m). 

 

I haven't been a fan of the Alienwares after AW14/17/18 gen but the X14 was kinda nice. I expect this 18" to take the X series design. They need a Mini LED or OLED display for this and a damn subwoofer for audio again. 

 

I still like socketed designs as they are really nice for tinkering and when out of warranty they give you a lot more options / less costs with defects but indeed until I see it I will not believe that we get an upgradable laptop again with intergenerational upgradability like we had for so many years with the Clevo units for CPU and GPU. Even then this was all mainly aftermarket as the manufacturers never officially supported this at a price that could be considered interesting so this is something else to consider.

 

I hope you will be right that we get some OLED or Mini LED, too as the first new screen where we have specs is a classic TFT model but with 165Hz and 480(!)Hz:

https://www.panelook.com/resmodlist.php?st=&pl=&so_attr=&resolutions[]=8400&panel_size_inch=1800

 

And I would definitely tell you that getting the X170 is a good idea - it even has a sub and can get very loud which is rare for a laptop.

 

[ssj92]

5 hours ago, 1610ftw said:

 

I still like socketed designs as they are really nice for tinkering and when out of warranty they give you a lot more options / less costs with defects but indeed until I see it I will not believe that we get an upgradable laptop again with intergenerational upgradability like we had for so many years with the Clevo units for CPU and GPU. Even then this was all mainly aftermarket as the manufacturers never officially supported this at a price that could be considered interesting so this is something else to consider.

 

I hope you will be right that we get some OLED or Mini LED, too as the first new screen where we have specs is a classic TFT model but with 165Hz and 480(!)Hz:

https://www.panelook.com/resmodlist.php?st=&pl=&so_attr=&resolutions[]=8400&panel_size_inch=1800

 

And I would definitely tell you that getting the X170 is a good idea - it even has a sub and can get very loud which is rare for a laptop.

 

2560x1600 at 165hz/480hz with 100% dci-p3, that’s not bad. But was hoping for better especially brightness. 
 

as someone who has owned the 18.4” alienwares and clevo p870dm/dm3 models I can safely say they have the best audio out of any laptop i’ve tested. 
 

although my 16” m1 pro macbook pro has better sound than 99% laptops in a thin 16” form factor, so I expect a lot from a 18” alienware. 
 

i am kinda expecting really good audio from the x170sm if I end up buying it 

[jaybee83]

20 hours ago, 1610ftw said:

At least they do not get up your hopes like Clevo and Alienware before only to then offer no upgrades whatsoever.

 

I got the X170KM-G here and I knew there would not be any CPU upgrades but it is getting really disappointing when there are also no GPU upgrades.

 

But then as an owner of the last socketed Clevo you know what I am talking about...

 

proudly going down with the sinking ship

[1610ftw]

55 minutes ago, jaybee83 said:

 

proudly going down with the sinking ship

 

Looks like the tragic loss of the Clevo DTR team at the 2021 company outing 

[Papusan]

For laptops....... In any form and shape

[1610ftw]

4 hours ago, Papusan said:

For laptops....... In any form and shape

Make that for laptops keeping up with desktops, being upgradable and easily serviceable. On their own the performance can certainly be impressive and laptops are just more portable than your average high end watercooling rig - at least that has improved even though it has improved to the detriment of performance.

 

But yeah, much less fun in getting a BGA book and about the only thing you can do without voiding the warranty is to tinker with the thermal paste.

 

What bugs me the most is that not even the CPUs can be swapped any more as this would be easy and not depend on a certain green, red or blue GPU company supporting manufacturers with hardware. But then without help in updating microcode to support all CPUs that fit on a socket this would again be turning out to be a one generation solution like almost all of the last Alienwares, Clevos and MSIs that had a socketed CPU.

 

 

 

 

 

[ssj92]

To be fair laptops keeping up with desktops haven’t exactly been a thing, especially if you’ve owned HEDT class desktops + Ti/Titan class GPUs.

 

for example, my Titan Xp from 2017 (I had the X from 2016 as well which performed around 29k fs gpu) has over a 32k fs score:

 

https://www.3dmark.com/fs/21628074

 

4-5 years later a RTX 3080 is scoring 30-32k in fs gpu score according to scores from NBC clevo 3080/alienware 3080 fs score. 
 

I think the main thing we all liked was doing things like upgrading cpu to higher spec or gpu to newer gen. 
 

we were never able to upgrade any lga laptop cpu to newer gen in same socket. Desktop lga with 6-9 series on z170 was the best upgrade gen. For example 2920xm to 3920xm isn’t possible without new motherboard. 3920xm to 4930mx isn’t possible without new mb. Z170 allowed 6-9 gen with pin mod/bios but the cpu gen itself was still skylake. Z490 clevo is stuck 10th gen and needed new mb too. 
 

for gpus we have had the opportunity to upgrade from the 6 series all the way to rtx 20 series (in my case from 680m sli to rtx 3000) which is probably biggest gpu gen upgrade [ 5 mobile gens] 

 

MXM was probably the best thanks to these large gen upgrade possibilities.

 

if you’re seen the new clevo it’s all bga and a770m gpu which is weaker than the older laptops.

 

we’re basically screwed for lga/mxm laptops now unless amd pulls a miracle. 
 

bga is unfortunately here to stay with every single manufacturer. Sad days indeed as I’ve pushed my socketed laptops as far as I could. 
 

having a rtx 3000 gpu and mxm nvme ssd in a 2012 laptop was the best. 

[jaybee83]

On 12/10/2022 at 7:51 PM, ssj92 said:

To be fair laptops keeping up with desktops haven’t exactly been a thing, especially if you’ve owned HEDT class desktops + Ti/Titan class GPUs.

 

for example, my Titan Xp from 2017 (I had the X from 2016 as well which performed around 29k fs gpu) has over a 32k fs score:

 

https://www.3dmark.com/fs/21628074

 

4-5 years later a RTX 3080 is scoring 30-32k in fs gpu score according to scores from NBC clevo 3080/alienware 3080 fs score. 
 

I think the main thing we all liked was doing things like upgrading cpu to higher spec or gpu to newer gen. 
 

we were never able to upgrade any lga laptop cpu to newer gen in same socket. Desktop lga with 6-9 series on z170 was the best upgrade gen. For example 2920xm to 3920xm isn’t possible without new motherboard. 3920xm to 4930mx isn’t possible without new mb. Z170 allowed 6-9 gen with pin mod/bios but the cpu gen itself was still skylake. Z490 clevo is stuck 10th gen and needed new mb too. 
 

for gpus we have had the opportunity to upgrade from the 6 series all the way to rtx 20 series (in my case from 680m sli to rtx 3000) which is probably biggest gpu gen upgrade [ 5 mobile gens] 

 

MXM was probably the best thanks to these large gen upgrade possibilities.

 

if you’re seen the new clevo it’s all bga and a770m gpu which is weaker than the older laptops.

 

we’re basically screwed for lga/mxm laptops now unless amd pulls a miracle. 
 

bga is unfortunately here to stay with every single manufacturer. Sad days indeed as I’ve pushed my socketed laptops as far as I could. 
 

having a rtx 3000 gpu and mxm nvme ssd in a 2012 laptop was the best. 

 

ha, i guess it always depends what ure comparing against. completely decked out and tuned Clevo DTR by @Mr. Fox or @Papusan vs. your run-of-the-mill "gamer desktop" full stock? no chance for the desktop 😄 but of course, if you compare those two's own machines laptop vs. desktop then the former doesnt stand a chance 😛 

[ssj92]

1 hour ago, jaybee83 said:

 

ha, i guess it always depends what ure comparing against. completely decked out and tuned Clevo DTR by @Mr. Fox or @Papusan vs. your run-of-the-mill "gamer desktop" full stock? no chance for the desktop 😄 but of course, if you compare those two's own machines laptop vs. desktop then the former doesnt stand a chance 😛 

For me I never consider the “gamer” level mainstream CPUs. 
 

it was always HEDT for me (X58, X79, X99, X299, next W790) 

 

if I could have a laptop with as much power as a mainstream desktop you can bet i’ll take a laptop. But my desktops are always a bit over the edge so this is why I try to stick with laptops. 2 Titan V’s , 2 2080Ti, 3090Ti, these aren’t cheap when you build a monster desktop compared to a monster laptop 🥲

[jaybee83]

22 hours ago, ssj92 said:

For me I never consider the “gamer” level mainstream CPUs. 
 

it was always HEDT for me (X58, X79, X99, X299, next W790) 

 

if I could have a laptop with as much power as a mainstream desktop you can bet i’ll take a laptop. But my desktops are always a bit over the edge so this is why I try to stick with laptops. 2 Titan V’s , 2 2080Ti, 3090Ti, these aren’t cheap when you build a monster desktop compared to a monster laptop 🥲

 

lol not many times someone says hes sticking to laptops otherwise hed go overboard with a system 😄 hilarious considering the price/perf ratios between laptop and desktop hahaha

[Meaker]

On 12/10/2022 at 6:51 PM, ssj92 said:

To be fair laptops keeping up with desktops haven’t exactly been a thing, especially if you’ve owned HEDT class desktops + Ti/Titan class GPUs.

 

for example, my Titan Xp from 2017 (I had the X from 2016 as well which performed around 29k fs gpu) has over a 32k fs score:

 

https://www.3dmark.com/fs/21628074

 

4-5 years later a RTX 3080 is scoring 30-32k in fs gpu score according to scores from NBC clevo 3080/alienware 3080 fs score. 
 

I think the main thing we all liked was doing things like upgrading cpu to higher spec or gpu to newer gen. 
 

we were never able to upgrade any lga laptop cpu to newer gen in same socket. Desktop lga with 6-9 series on z170 was the best upgrade gen. For example 2920xm to 3920xm isn’t possible without new motherboard. 3920xm to 4930mx isn’t possible without new mb. Z170 allowed 6-9 gen with pin mod/bios but the cpu gen itself was still skylake. Z490 clevo is stuck 10th gen and needed new mb too. 
 

for gpus we have had the opportunity to upgrade from the 6 series all the way to rtx 20 series (in my case from 680m sli to rtx 3000) which is probably biggest gpu gen upgrade [ 5 mobile gens] 

 

MXM was probably the best thanks to these large gen upgrade possibilities.

 

if you’re seen the new clevo it’s all bga and a770m gpu which is weaker than the older laptops.

 

we’re basically screwed for lga/mxm laptops now unless amd pulls a miracle. 
 

bga is unfortunately here to stay with every single manufacturer. Sad days indeed as I’ve pushed my socketed laptops as far as I could. 
 

having a rtx 3000 gpu and mxm nvme ssd in a 2012 laptop was the best. 

You had that for a short time, I had the P570WM with 4930k, 16GB of 2133Mhz DDR3 in quad channel, 980M in SLI with power mods and vmem mods running at silly speeds.

There was not much out there that could compete with it.

[ssj92]

25 minutes ago, Meaker said:

You had that for a short time, I had the P570WM with 4930k, 16GB of 2133Mhz DDR3 in quad channel, 980M in SLI with power mods and vmem mods running at silly speeds.

There was not much out there that could compete with it.

I also had P570WM except with a 10-Core Xeon, 16GB 2133Mhz Quad-Channel (ran at 1866 due to Xeon CPU), 970M OC and RAID0 SSDs.

 

https://www.3dmark.com/fs/3684105

 

the p570wm was the closest we ever got to a true desktop replacement. Unfortunately after that it started to go downhill. Sure we got P870DM, which was also good but we never got X99/X299 HEDT laptops.

 

the 10/20 series in mobile brought the closest desktop class gpus then 30 series went backwards again. 
 

the x170 will probably be the last lga/mxm system. 

[cylix]

First look

 

 

[Reciever]

Total 250w? :(

[ssj92]

6 hours ago, Reciever said:

Total 250w? 😞

 

 

The 250w total is already a thing on current 12th gen/30 series laptops. 

 

The CPU by itself can hit full speed and gpu can always hit full speed but cpu gets limited to 75w tdp when gpu is at full power.

 

All the RTX 4090 + i9 HX CPU systems will have this 250w limit or less. 

 

It's unfortunate that dual psu systems are gone. We will have to wait until they're released to see how they really perform. 

 

[Papusan]

17 hours ago, ssj92 said:

All the RTX 4090 + i9 HX CPU systems will have this 250w limit or less. 

 

It's unfortunate that dual psu systems are gone. We will have to wait until they're released to see how they really perform. 

Still no need to cripple the system down to 250W. They can use hybrid mode (steal needed power from the battery) and 330W power bricks is not utilized. They are good for above 400W peak load and +350w in sustained load. Why castrate the laptops at 250W? A nice way to cut on cooling cost and push you over on next HW refresh. 

[Mr. Fox]

On 12/9/2022 at 9:52 PM, Papusan said:

For laptops....... In any form and shape

Yup... a big... fat... stinkin'

GIGO... feeble minds produce feeble products

[ssj92]

2 hours ago, Papusan said:

Still no need to cripple the system down to 250W. They can use hybrid mode (steal needed power from the battery) and 330W power bricks is not utilized. They are good for above 400W peak load and +350w in sustained load. Why castrate the laptops at 250W? A nice way to cut on cooling cost and push you over on next HW refresh. 

The fact that every single manufacturer has this limitation or even less tells me nvidia / intel didn’t want manufacturers pushing their products. NVidia didn’t let clevo make a 3080ti mxm card and now even clevo is 100% bga. 
 

at this point nvidia/intel control what and how their products get used. 
 

will be very interesting seeing the AMD versions of the same laptops.

[KING19]

19 hours ago, Papusan said:

Still no need to cripple the system down to 250W. They can use hybrid mode (steal needed power from the battery) and 330W power bricks is not utilized. They are good for above 400W peak load and +350w in sustained load. Why castrate the laptops at 250W? A nice way to cut on cooling cost and push you over on next HW refresh. 

 

The crippling is caused by NVIDIA's dynamic boost ever since the 30 series, I think AMD does the same thing but im not sure but anyways there still no excuses for it. If people going to spend $5000+ for a I9HX+RTX4090 combo laptop they should be able to run it at its full potential. Also a lot gaming laptops uses advanced optimus now (upgraded MUX) which you have the best of both worlds without any bottlenecking going on especially in games.